If I say "I didn't eat cheese, therefore I didn't fart" you would be correct in saying that technically the statement does not necessarily mean that my eating cheese means I fart. But in the colloquial way we speak it is implied that if I ate cheese I would fart because why would I say it that way if it wasn't what I meant? The same can be said of this instance. If they weren't nominating or considering it they could've said so. But that doesn't matter because you're not actually quibbling with the fact that it was bad Biden "considered" "nominating" an anti choice judge, you're just here to argue for the sake of it because it's a game to you.
The policy on blue slips for this sort of judicial nomination is a known quantity. That means, if they were to break their traditional silence on a pending vacancy to say anything other than their statement on Paul's blue slip precluding any further action on the guy, Paul could go public with his blue slip and say that was the real reason.
We've already established that it was probably something other than Paul's blue slip that caused the nomination to not be made when an email said it was planned. It is not some leap to say that there were other factors in play as to the ultimate fate here.
If I say "I didn't eat cheese, therefore I didn't fart" you would be correct in saying that technically the statement does not necessarily mean that my eating cheese means I fart. But in the colloquial way we speak it is implied that if I ate cheese I would fart because why would I say it that way if it wasn't what I meant? The same can be said of this instance. If they weren't nominating or considering it they could've said so. But that doesn't matter because you're not actually quibbling with the fact that it was bad Biden "considered" "nominating" an anti choice judge, you're just here to argue for the sake of it because it's a game to you.
The policy on blue slips for this sort of judicial nomination is a known quantity. That means, if they were to break their traditional silence on a pending vacancy to say anything other than their statement on Paul's blue slip precluding any further action on the guy, Paul could go public with his blue slip and say that was the real reason.
We've already established that it was probably something other than Paul's blue slip that caused the nomination to not be made when an email said it was planned. It is not some leap to say that there were other factors in play as to the ultimate fate here.
because no one expected Rand Paul to score a fuckin’ Own Goal in a fit of pique
There’s no mysterious other reason! The democrats still respect the blue slip norms, and he refused to turn it in! There’s no secret answer we just aren’t privy to that makes this okay for Biden!
If I say "I didn't eat cheese, therefore I didn't fart" you would be correct in saying that technically the statement does not necessarily mean that my eating cheese means I fart. But in the colloquial way we speak it is implied that if I ate cheese I would fart because why would I say it that way if it wasn't what I meant? The same can be said of this instance. If they weren't nominating or considering it they could've said so. But that doesn't matter because you're not actually quibbling with the fact that it was bad Biden "considered" "nominating" an anti choice judge, you're just here to argue for the sake of it because it's a game to you.
The policy on blue slips for this sort of judicial nomination is a known quantity. That means, if they were to break their traditional silence on a pending vacancy to say anything other than their statement on Paul's blue slip precluding any further action on the guy, Paul could go public with his blue slip and say that was the real reason.
We've already established that it was probably something other than Paul's blue slip that caused the nomination to not be made when an email said it was planned. It is not some leap to say that there were other factors in play as to the ultimate fate here.
Okay, but again, the fact that the nomination was happening is by itself a problem. That is the main fucking conclusion here.
It being scrapped because roe was overturned and the optics around that being bad for Biden wouldn't make the whole situation any less terrible. It being a thing that happened at all is the bad part. All the Paul stuff would do is means Biden doubled down on it. Which hey, in that case at least they have principles. Terrible ones, but still existent ones.
This is why this is pointless. We have confirmation from the Whitehouse that the nomination was going to occur. That's the bad part. Why it didn't doesn't really mean much.
It's also not a secret that the potential nomination got leaked, and was very unpopular.
But you have to ignore those reasons, because we need to rehash this yet again.
Edit: This one wasn't directed at you, Oghulk. We're in agreement that it was a bad call to come anywhere near nominating this guy.
Except you haven’t offered any substantial evidence this deal was scuttled the day Dobbs came down.
Not to mention the fact that even prior to that we had the leak regarding Dobbs in may.
The story initially broke on June 29, after Dobbs came down. Rand Paul’s refusal to blue slip merideth came down around July 15, when the White House acknowledged he had refused it.
Again, the issue here is you don’t want to accept that Biden was going to nominate an anti-abortion, federalist society judge to a federal district court, so you’re working backwards from that preference to find any wiggle room you can for that to be the case.
It's also not a secret that the potential nomination got leaked, and was very unpopular.
But you have to ignore those reasons, because we need to rehash this yet again.
The nomination was scuttled or at least not acted upon before the leak.
The nomination was supposed to go in the day RvW dropped. It did not. It was at least a week later that the leak happened.
Keep in mind part of the timeline was demanded by the official announcement that the judge Merideth was to replace was retiring; even at the time of reporting from the original paper, that bit wasn’t official yet (though McConnell and the White House had been informed she would be moving into that senirority/entire ent position)
Which would explain why it hadn’t been acted on yet: she hadn’t officially announced she was stepping down.
Is there some other thread where we can go to read about the things this thread was about before collapsing the waveform of Schroedinger’s Kentucky Judicial Appointment became the only mental labor worth doing?
Is there some other thread where we can go to read about the things this thread was about before collapsing the waveform of Schroedinger’s Kentucky Judicial Appointment became the only mental labor worth doing?
The thread is about the collapse of Abortion rights following Dobbs
We are discussing the collapse of abortion rights, and the president’s role in that collapse through recklessly bolstering the institutional structures that lead to and reinforce that collapse by upholding the hold that the right wing has in federal district court, which will ultimately adjudicate any conflicts over the legality of abortions in those districts.
Like… if there’s more to talk about, people can do so! There’s no rule that says the only people allowed to post are Tarantio, Oghulk and me. If there’s another angle to talk about, bring it up; if there’s more news to discuss, post it!
I am aware; but you’re using that Marshall claimed that the nomination would be made the following day to claim that, therefore, the Administration chose to scuttle it when the announcement didn’t happen. Again, the kind of “searching for wiggle room” I suggested earlier.
If the administration chose to do so because of the politics of nominating an anti-abortion judge, let alone in the wake of Dobbs (and again, we had the leak a month prior!), they’d have actually said so; they wouldn’t have placed the rationale on Paul’s refusal to grant permission on Merideth’s nomination.
Hey, that argument about what the white house would have said was also countered on the same page, how convenient.
The collapse of abortion rights is due to Reoublicans getting elected. 100%.
Saying that the district courts will "ultimately ajudicate" abortion rights seems to be a missapplication of the word "ultimately." As federal courts can be appealed beyond district court.
There's perhaps an argument to be made that Biden should try to get the Judiciary Comittee to abandon some of their rules for a short term advantage in the lower courts. But assigning a fraction of the blame for what Republicans did to the opposition just doesn't seem worth the gymnastics.
The thread has hit 100 pages, and will be rebooted shortly. For now, let's take a bit to breathe and take a mental break.
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The policy on blue slips for this sort of judicial nomination is a known quantity. That means, if they were to break their traditional silence on a pending vacancy to say anything other than their statement on Paul's blue slip precluding any further action on the guy, Paul could go public with his blue slip and say that was the real reason.
We've already established that it was probably something other than Paul's blue slip that caused the nomination to not be made when an email said it was planned. It is not some leap to say that there were other factors in play as to the ultimate fate here.
because no one expected Rand Paul to score a fuckin’ Own Goal in a fit of pique
There’s no mysterious other reason! The democrats still respect the blue slip norms, and he refused to turn it in! There’s no secret answer we just aren’t privy to that makes this okay for Biden!
Okay, but again, the fact that the nomination was happening is by itself a problem. That is the main fucking conclusion here.
It's also not a secret that the potential nomination got leaked, and was very unpopular.
But you have to ignore those reasons, because we need to rehash this yet again.
Edit: This one wasn't directed at you, Oghulk. We're in agreement that it was a bad call to come anywhere near nominating this guy.
The nomination was scuttled or at least not acted upon before the leak.
The nomination was supposed to go in the day RvW dropped. It did not. It was at least a week later that the leak happened.
This is why this is pointless. We have confirmation from the Whitehouse that the nomination was going to occur. That's the bad part. Why it didn't doesn't really mean much.
Except you haven’t offered any substantial evidence this deal was scuttled the day Dobbs came down.
Not to mention the fact that even prior to that we had the leak regarding Dobbs in may.
The story initially broke on June 29, after Dobbs came down. Rand Paul’s refusal to blue slip merideth came down around July 15, when the White House acknowledged he had refused it.
Again, the issue here is you don’t want to accept that Biden was going to nominate an anti-abortion, federalist society judge to a federal district court, so you’re working backwards from that preference to find any wiggle room you can for that to be the case.
Keep in mind part of the timeline was demanded by the official announcement that the judge Merideth was to replace was retiring; even at the time of reporting from the original paper, that bit wasn’t official yet (though McConnell and the White House had been informed she would be moving into that senirority/entire ent position)
Which would explain why it hadn’t been acted on yet: she hadn’t officially announced she was stepping down.
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The thread is about the collapse of Abortion rights following Dobbs
We are discussing the collapse of abortion rights, and the president’s role in that collapse through recklessly bolstering the institutional structures that lead to and reinforce that collapse by upholding the hold that the right wing has in federal district court, which will ultimately adjudicate any conflicts over the legality of abortions in those districts.
Like… if there’s more to talk about, people can do so! There’s no rule that says the only people allowed to post are Tarantio, Oghulk and me. If there’s another angle to talk about, bring it up; if there’s more news to discuss, post it!
I am aware; but you’re using that Marshall claimed that the nomination would be made the following day to claim that, therefore, the Administration chose to scuttle it when the announcement didn’t happen. Again, the kind of “searching for wiggle room” I suggested earlier.
If the administration chose to do so because of the politics of nominating an anti-abortion judge, let alone in the wake of Dobbs (and again, we had the leak a month prior!), they’d have actually said so; they wouldn’t have placed the rationale on Paul’s refusal to grant permission on Merideth’s nomination.
The collapse of abortion rights is due to Reoublicans getting elected. 100%.
Saying that the district courts will "ultimately ajudicate" abortion rights seems to be a missapplication of the word "ultimately." As federal courts can be appealed beyond district court.
There's perhaps an argument to be made that Biden should try to get the Judiciary Comittee to abandon some of their rules for a short term advantage in the lower courts. But assigning a fraction of the blame for what Republicans did to the opposition just doesn't seem worth the gymnastics.