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[Fighting Game Thread] Tekken 8: Father issues? No it's a whole Hardback Trade.
personally i'm not sweating too much trying to learn combo routes because all that might shift around by full release, this is a pretty old build at this point
obviously that's not meant to take away from anyone for whom the pleasure of the game is that experimentation and grinding don't get me wrong
Yeah, that's totally fair. For me it's less about finding The Optimal Thing at this point and more about finding something satisfying, or getting some kind of understanding of this completely different game design than what I'm used to.
I've had the spamming block thing said to me in real life by my brother when it turned out five minutes to figure out a rudimentary combo and how to block made me completely invincible against him in whichever Mortal Kombat he was playing at the time.
He was around 17 at the time, which I feel is too old to get a bye on it.
Slowly coming to the sad realization that maybe I only like Guilty Gear Strive...
Played a bit of the SF6 beta, and I don't know if it's just that none of the characters are ones I'm interested in, but the combo system feels really bleh to me: only some normals can be cancelled into specials, only some normals cancel into other normals everything else is a link, the drive cancels only work out of special cancellable normals... nothing feels like it has any oomph unless it's a twitter-combo that deals 60%.
Maybe playing Honda or Gief will make me feel differently, but idk, I'm worried. I keep getting excited to try out new games and then get sad when I actually try them out.
For sure SF has much shorter "turns," shorter strings and more points where a string can be interrupted. This game has fairly long punish combos but there will still be plenty of normal xx special combos.
I love shorter strings because they're easier to parse and anime fighters feel like single player games where you occasionally trade places, to me, but I get the appeal of the huge bombastic combos
The drive system in 6 leads to much flashier, more elaborate combos, though —a lot of those twitter combos are close to what a regular optimized punish will be. Using drive rush for combos is going to be very standard, that and using it for long whiff punishes. Combo routes will remain tighter though since not all normals are cancellable
I like when target combos can stand alone as serviceable options without a cancel, but too often there are dozens of target combos in the game with little or no use. Hoping they were more deliberate about that here
I feel like there's just something about the combo structure I must not be getting. Like, drive cancel I thought would be the de-facto combo extender thing, but you can only drive cancel out of special cancellable normals. So it felt like, I'm spending 3 whole drive gauge to add one medium punch to this combo? There's got to be something I'm missing, because that seems like an awful use of resources.
Or is it that normal standing combos just don't really lead to much, and only counter-hit/punish counter combos, or combos into supers deal really big damage?
The thing you'll see is more like, Ryu will hit the opponent's whiffed normal with cr.mk, drive rush cancel, cancel into standing mp, which gets +3 bonus frames on hit because of the drive rush bonus
From there standing mp has a bunch of links — it always links into cr.mp but with +3 I think you can do cr.hp?
So you'll see something like
cr.mk xx drive rush xx s.mp, cr.hp xx OD donkey kick, wall bounce into heavy shoryuken (and then super)
This is going to be the normal, expected use of drive gauge to cash out on a single whiff punish
Compare that to just buffering e.g. a heavy tatsumaki from the cr.mk. You're getting two more normals, and two more specials.
For a close up punish combo, it's going to be stacking multiple sets of linked normals, using the +3 to link chunkier normals:
F.hp, s.mp xx drive rush xx s.hk, cr.hp xx OD donkey kick, heavy shoryuken (I think this one still works?)
The standing heavy to crouching heavy only works with the +3, I think, and you get three heavy attacks in there for a real hefty pile of damage
Alright, Street Fighter 6 is real fun to bash buttons in.
Ken is quickly becoming my boy. Looks like Marisa is gonna have to do some fuckin' work to pull me away from this blonde moron.
Update: Kimberly is scratching my Giovanna itch a bit more than Ken is, after a few chunks of sets with her. Like, I'm losing, but I'm not getting forever bodied (by anything other than double qc inputs).
Johnny ChopsockyScootaloo! We have to cook!Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered Userregular
Met a Ken who could see The Code who decided that I was gonna learn today. The game's soundtrack may as well have been replaced with https://youtu.be/_ykAXB3JFy4
KlineshrikeCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Man I'm jealous someone already got a hate message.
Also if the classic controls are rough for you, do modern. I have played fighters seriously for fucking ever. I have no shame going to modern especially before I can train on combo routes. It lets meake game decisions, not "can I pull off this input" decisions.
here is an updated link for a discord that has been in use by the thread for many years https://discord.gg/7atCDv7nmn
the main idea of this discord is for coordinating battle lounges. its also boosted up so it has high quality video streaming which I tend to do if I am in one of the lounges
SF6 seems like its going to have pretty good community/group oriented lounges so I expect that this will all get heavy usage here in the first few months of SF6
if you are interested in grinding in a controlled setting.. the discord has people of all skill levels, including actual toddlers, so you'll probably find someone who is an appropriate challenge
Yeah, I'll be back on the Discord with SF6. I kinda fell off fighting games as this season of Guilty Gear wasn't really doing it for me and I was bummed out at how Dungeon Fighter went down, but a few of the characters in SF6 look rad as hell and the game felt great in the demo/open beta.
I'm still waffling on whether to use Modern controls or not. It'll probably depend on who I main. Some characters might actually be harder in Modern because they lose their most braindead/important normals, but the Modern layout is so much more comfy. It's a real tough decision but comfiness might win out in the end.
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
losing 20% damage to Modern controls makes it seem like... not really an option
You can still manually input commands in Modern controls and you get full damage. One-button specials is very powerful, in a way that a lot of people don't appreciate. 20% damage cut is not as much as one might think as such - though most players are at a level where they won't notice either of those differences.
Modern is good enough that it's in the conversation for some characters.
you only lose the damage when using the Special button, you can still do inputs manually for full damage. Some characters are forced to use the Special button to access certain specials, like Ken's fireball, but some have access to their full kit of specials and supers no problem.
losing 20% damage to Modern controls makes it seem like... not really an option
Some high tier players have used it successfully. 1-frame on-reaction supers, Guile no longer requires forward input on charge moves so it's slightly faster. It's possible to overcome the damage nerf if you abuse its strengths, it seems.
here is an updated link for a discord that has been in use by the thread for many years https://discord.gg/7atCDv7nmn
the main idea of this discord is for coordinating battle lounges. its also boosted up so it has high quality video streaming which I tend to do if I am in one of the lounges
SF6 seems like its going to have pretty good community/group oriented lounges so I expect that this will all get heavy usage here in the first few months of SF6
if you are interested in grinding in a controlled setting.. the discord has people of all skill levels, including actual toddlers, so you'll probably find someone who is an appropriate challenge
Like Juri loses 5HK, 5MK, and 2MP; all super important normals, but I can still weigh the pros and cons of Modern. If I'm willing to sacrifice those Juri normals, other Modern characters will probably work just fine.
i created the discord at the start of SFV because corralling people in the original CFN system via forum message was tedious, time consuming, and failure prone, while also having the advantage of mucking up the thread with otherwise worthless messages
a problem that compounded exponentially the more people you tried to fit into a lounge at the same time
also when the discord lounges get running you can see them running which prompts people to jump on and get grinding
usually when i fire up a lounge stream it goes from 2 people to 6 people pretty quick, especially if the game is hot. that organic "lets play" just doesn't happen in a thread format
I will say, while I played the beta, the moves I had the most trouble executing reliably were Dragon Punch controls, and Chun-Li's fireball
I had a hell of a time getting Guile's charge supers to come out without slowing way down on the motions, shimmying back and forth. I never had that issue in SF4.
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PaperLuigi44My amazement is at maximum capacity.Registered Userregular
Modern is good enough that it's in the conversation for some characters.
Yeah, hearing Woolie and Reggie talk about it convinced me to consider Modern. It feels like I would be doing something wrong by not learning the "proper" controls, but there being a reduced stigma around it helps.
Max also has been a big proponent of the idea that there needs to be a legitimate four-button control scheme available to players, because at the end of the day that's what the controller is
+7
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited May 2023
Yeah Modern makes sense in Street Fighter because it's the only major fighting game you can't comfortably play on the default controller.
Most other fighters were already 4 button games so it was never as big a deal for them.
But classic is still there for us olds.
Dragkonias on
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KlineshrikeCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I am old and do not understand hip new young people things
Why would I use discord to arrange matches and such with the community here, when I am currently communicating with the community here, right here
I figure it would go without saying a real time chat is significantly more convenient than spamming refresh on a forum.
I used modern all beta test because I can't be assed to learn all the inputs and combo strings yet. It allowed me to focus on basic decision making, and not on preventing myself from failing an input repeatedly. I found this way, WAY more fun. I also had plenty of success with it. Of course, being a lower level player is a factor.
I wouldn't be opposed to advancing to classic once I get comfortable with the moves modern allowed me to do properties wise. Also, when a full fledged training mode and combo training is available.
I did kind of double take though when I heard someone mention ( can't remember who, I mainly watched vids from Sajam and Max though) that modern would be banned in live tournaments. Feels odd to ban it to me? Like they fear that one of the options Modern allows is just that overpowered with the faster inputs it becomes spammable and uncounterable.
There's a third control type, Dynamic, which is definitely banned from competition cause it's just AI choosing attacks for you.
+1
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I was trying classic, but I may try modern when the game actually comes out. I just understand the idea of clissic controls, even if I never played a fighting game before
i think that while difficult execution is a significant part of making fighting games individuated and granting feeling-of-mastery over individual characters, it’s usually a better design decision to simplify execution and let new players get to the decision making part faster, since a lot of the time it’s a significant barrier to fun
i think that while difficult execution is a significant part of making fighting games individuated and granting feeling-of-mastery over individual characters, it’s usually a better design decision to simplify execution and let new players get to the decision making part faster, since a lot of the time it’s a significant barrier to fun
but this is coming from me, a Smash enjoyer, so
your game has electric wind god fist
0
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
I'm fine with motions as long as they aren't overly complicated just cause they feel fun to do
Posts
stop spamming block loser scrub
My problem with motions is I am bad at dragon punch, and also the timing of some charge moves.
Yeah, that's totally fair. For me it's less about finding The Optimal Thing at this point and more about finding something satisfying, or getting some kind of understanding of this completely different game design than what I'm used to.
He was around 17 at the time, which I feel is too old to get a bye on it.
The thing you'll see is more like, Ryu will hit the opponent's whiffed normal with cr.mk, drive rush cancel, cancel into standing mp, which gets +3 bonus frames on hit because of the drive rush bonus
From there standing mp has a bunch of links — it always links into cr.mp but with +3 I think you can do cr.hp?
So you'll see something like
cr.mk xx drive rush xx s.mp, cr.hp xx OD donkey kick, wall bounce into heavy shoryuken (and then super)
This is going to be the normal, expected use of drive gauge to cash out on a single whiff punish
Compare that to just buffering e.g. a heavy tatsumaki from the cr.mk. You're getting two more normals, and two more specials.
For a close up punish combo, it's going to be stacking multiple sets of linked normals, using the +3 to link chunkier normals:
F.hp, s.mp xx drive rush xx s.hk, cr.hp xx OD donkey kick, heavy shoryuken (I think this one still works?)
The standing heavy to crouching heavy only works with the +3, I think, and you get three heavy attacks in there for a real hefty pile of damage
(Commas are links, xx is cancel)
I can do it reliably in solo practice, but once the match starts my brain goes into panic mode and drops inputs constantly.
Update: Kimberly is scratching my Giovanna itch a bit more than Ken is, after a few chunks of sets with her. Like, I'm losing, but I'm not getting forever bodied (by anything other than double qc inputs).
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
Oh no, SF6 is out very soon, I'm not ready.
I played against a Jamie who tried to parry all my footies. So I just started throwing him.
Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
10/10 would button bash again
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
Also if the classic controls are rough for you, do modern. I have played fighters seriously for fucking ever. I have no shame going to modern especially before I can train on combo routes. It lets meake game decisions, not "can I pull off this input" decisions.
the main idea of this discord is for coordinating battle lounges. its also boosted up so it has high quality video streaming which I tend to do if I am in one of the lounges
SF6 seems like its going to have pretty good community/group oriented lounges so I expect that this will all get heavy usage here in the first few months of SF6
if you are interested in grinding in a controlled setting.. the discord has people of all skill levels, including actual toddlers, so you'll probably find someone who is an appropriate challenge
we also talk about other random shit and clown upon each other
Modern is good enough that it's in the conversation for some characters.
Some high tier players have used it successfully. 1-frame on-reaction supers, Guile no longer requires forward input on charge moves so it's slightly faster. It's possible to overcome the damage nerf if you abuse its strengths, it seems.
added to OP.
Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
Why would I use discord to arrange matches and such with the community here, when I am currently communicating with the community here, right here
a problem that compounded exponentially the more people you tried to fit into a lounge at the same time
also when the discord lounges get running you can see them running which prompts people to jump on and get grinding
usually when i fire up a lounge stream it goes from 2 people to 6 people pretty quick, especially if the game is hot. that organic "lets play" just doesn't happen in a thread format
we also talk about other random shit and clown upon each other
You can shittalk while you play
Gameplay reveal for MK1 confirmed for June 8th at Summer Games fest.
Guessing it's gonna be a long one cause Ed Boon is gonna be onstage himself.
I had a hell of a time getting Guile's charge supers to come out without slowing way down on the motions, shimmying back and forth. I never had that issue in SF4.
Yeah, hearing Woolie and Reggie talk about it convinced me to consider Modern. It feels like I would be doing something wrong by not learning the "proper" controls, but there being a reduced stigma around it helps.
Most other fighters were already 4 button games so it was never as big a deal for them.
But classic is still there for us olds.
I figure it would go without saying a real time chat is significantly more convenient than spamming refresh on a forum.
I used modern all beta test because I can't be assed to learn all the inputs and combo strings yet. It allowed me to focus on basic decision making, and not on preventing myself from failing an input repeatedly. I found this way, WAY more fun. I also had plenty of success with it. Of course, being a lower level player is a factor.
I wouldn't be opposed to advancing to classic once I get comfortable with the moves modern allowed me to do properties wise. Also, when a full fledged training mode and combo training is available.
I did kind of double take though when I heard someone mention ( can't remember who, I mainly watched vids from Sajam and Max though) that modern would be banned in live tournaments. Feels odd to ban it to me? Like they fear that one of the options Modern allows is just that overpowered with the faster inputs it becomes spammable and uncounterable.
but this is coming from me, a Smash enjoyer, so
your game has electric wind god fist
wavedashing was a mistake and i’m glad they killed it