Everyone in this thread loves [Star Wars]

Vontre

And look maybe everyone here thinks 3D kid's shows look awesome and more power to you but legitimately I thought that everyone was aligned on this, cuz irl pretty much everyone I know thinks this way.

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Desy

Vontre wrote: »

And look maybe everyone here thinks 3D kid's shows look awesome and more power to you but legitimately I thought that everyone was aligned on this, cuz irl pretty much everyone I know thinks this way.

Yes. Not everyone here (that is an adult or not) is in agreement with you and "everyone you know irl" that all 3d tv animation is categorically bad looking.

I take each show on its own merits and don't apply words like "cheap" Or "awesome" to the entire category of animation.

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DiscoPirateBunny

Atomika wrote: »

🎶...I pray that I don't find any more
Crispy bodies by the door🎶

dporowski

It's worth noting that Star Wars was rated PG. This is the same rating Jaws got, for reference. The definition of "your kid can watch this" has shifted so amazingly far down over the years, that "for kids" then really doesn't map to "for kids" now. You just might have had to explain a few things for the little bugger, and they might be a little freaked out for a while sometimes. (The Dark Crystal and The Neverending Story come to mind, here, and yes the target audience for both involved children.)

The Wolfman

I think people's perceptions of the times is also muddying things. Star Wars was "for kids" because... you watched it as a kid. And you left it behind when you grew up. Nerd culture is not what it was back in the 90's. If you still clung onto Star Wars as a teenager in high school, generally speaking you were treated as a social pariah. Star Wars was not really something you carried as a hardcore identity in your teens or adult life. Ergo, "it's for kids".

Alphagaia

GB2 was aimed at kids and it featured several severed heads on stakes. Those times were weird.

I think the first two movies weren't exactly intended for kids, but when Lucas found out kids lapped it up and bought oodles of merchandise he watered down the content.

Same thing happened to Ghostbusters. We went from sigaret smoking innuendos and clever wordplay to slapping each other in their undies while covered in pink slime. The clever wordplay was still there sometimes, but some of it got replaced with Slimer being in the movie for no reason other than the cartoon that sold oodles of toys had him in it.

Star Wars has a lot of content and some of it is more aimed at kids and some it more aimed at adults. Liking both is not a crime and doesn't mean you have an undeveloped mind. You just like more things.

Heck, I still like GB2, I just prefer the original for it's more consistent tone. Same with Andor and now Ahsoka. I loved Andor in a different way I like Ahsoka, even with the weird tonal issues. Since we are only 2 episodes in this can go either way.

daveNYC

Vontre wrote: »

destroyah87 wrote: »

Vontre wrote: »

destroyah87 wrote: »

Vontre wrote: »

I didn't say animation was for kids though. I said *Star Wars* was for kids, including most of the live action. There is a lot of adult animation that is really good, and there is the odd kid show that is just really really good. And of course there's anime which is a whole 'nother thing.

I have seen the a few episodes of Rebels and it absolutely looks like dog. It's really really bad. You can get used to it after a while, like I got used to Star Trek Prodigy. When they make animated shows for adults, they are pretty much always some sort of 2D drawn style. Pixar and Dreamworks movies also look really good. There is a curve going on where only films seem to have the budget to make 3D animation look any good. Whereas 2D tends to look good when it's cheap and look somewhat better at high budget. Little kids fucking love the cheap 3D animation though, they eat it up.

ATLA had to be a groundbreaking smash hit to break into adult tastes. You CAN make a kid's show that adults will really enjoy; you just probably won't.

Honestly, the reason adult animation goes for the 2d style is Because that style is so super cheap to pay for. If you do 3d animation on the budget of an adult animated show, you get Tripping the Rift or Father of the Pride. Basically, the only reason kids animated shows (or hell, movies too) even do 3d animation is Because they have the budgets for it.

I will say I disagree that Clone Wars/Rebels looks cheap. I feel that's mostly your opinion on 3d animation in general and possibly due to not seeing a ton of other animated shows? But I don't know your watch habits and so can't presume that. But there are other shows that I've watched that do a 3d style of animation that are much less technically competent and executed than Clone/Rebels.

Also, there's more than just Last Airbender that ended up getting an adult audience, however small. Just off the top of my head I can name: Gravity Falls, Owl House*, Steven Universe, Bluey, and MLP. And yes, Last Airbender and Korra.

I could say more, but that'd take me even further afield of the topic of Star Wars and into animation in general. I'll leave it there and let the conversation flow along. ^.^

*An aside, but I just read that Dana Terrace, the showrunner of Owl House has even suspected or theoriezied that the show was ultimately cancelled because its viewership skewed older.

I would be remiss if I didn't point out that every single one of those cross-audience shows use 2D animation. Most of those shows rule.

I was just looking into this and saw a reviewer refer to 3D cartoons as having a uniform "plastic" look and I think that's a very apt description. 3D children's shows have a pretty common artificial look about them whereas there's a wide variety of 2D art styles even amongst just these cartoons listed here. There is a ton of this 3D stuff on Netflix Kids.

Legitimately I liked that 2D animated Clone Wars cartoon that was on Cartoon Network way back in the day, it looked pretty cool. Unfortunately they dropped that for the cheap 3D and I have to believe that's because kids prefer it.

E: I also feel like Star Trek is a very smoking gun here, as the series literally never touched 3D animation until they made a show that was explicitly for children. Then the adult animated Trek uses the 2D kinda flash style characters like Rick and Morty. It all seems pretty cut and dry.

One major point. The Tartakovsky Clone Wars was only two seasons of shorts and concluded in 2005. The cgi Clone Wars show didn't debut until 2008. There is zero evidence that Tartakovsky's show was ended (you say "dropped" which is just incorrect) because "kids prefer 3d animation."

Like, your word choice and tone comes across as very dismissive of 3d animation specifically and I don't understand. You can like it or not, that's fine. Calling it cheap is even more odd, because I guarantee it's more expensive per minute of animation than digital 2d animation, given similiar quality levels.

No I don't mean dropped the show. I mean they dropped the style. As in they chose not to continue using that style for further works.

Whether it's more expensive to produce or not, I don't know. It *looks* cheap as a viewer. It's clear from animated films that high budget 3D can be incredibly amazing. But on the level of TV cartoons, what I'm seeing really does not look good, and often looks much worse than predecessor cartoons, or contemporary 2D. It read to me like the difference between N64 and Super Nintendo, but we've just never left that phase of progress. The technical render is impressive to kids, I remember being extremely awed by Toy Story, but it's not as stylish or cool to an adult's eyes as something like Teen Titans, or BTAS, or Steven Universe. Nor is it as humorously drawn and heart filled as something like Gravity Falls. It's just sort of there. I think this is slowly getting better maybe, like Miraculous and Star Trek Prodigy don't look as bad as the Clone Wars, but it's also not quite there yet. And I don't see hardly any of these 3D animated shows being aimed at or catching much traction with adults yet (Star Wars and Star Trek notwithstanding because nerds). Legitimately I wonder if this will become a generational gap and we'll start seeing adult animation in this flat 3D style 20 years from now.

They changed the style, but probably not due to any preference the yoots might have. The Tartakovsky series had that Tartakovsky look, all his shows have it. It's a good look, but I can understand Lucasfilm not wanting to keep on in that same style.

Dracomicron

Star Wars 3D animation looked bad in early Clone Wars but got progressively better as they built up their asset library and is now, as of the Bad Batch a decade and a half later, legit good to gorgeous, depending on the item/character.

honovere

Bad Batch often looks way better than SW live action, mostly in establishing and wide shots.

Tastyfish

dporowski wrote: »

It's worth noting that Star Wars was rated PG. This is the same rating Jaws got, for reference. The definition of "your kid can watch this" has shifted so amazingly far down over the years, that "for kids" then really doesn't map to "for kids" now. You just might have had to explain a few things for the little bugger, and they might be a little freaked out for a while sometimes. (The Dark Crystal and The Neverending Story come to mind, here, and yes the target audience for both involved children.)

And sometimes people just got ambitious, which I think blurs the line a bit too - I definitely remember seeing these in the stores and knew about the Xenomorph's unusual biology when these would have been aimed at me.

darkmayo

I liked the first two episodes, I feel for anyone who hasn't watched Clone Wars or more Rebels.. but I am ok with the show just continuing on like its season 5 of Rebels. I like most of the characters but my only complaint is Hera... and its no fault of Mary Elisabeth Winstead, its just the green makeup job doesn't look great. I am not sure why Ahsoka works for me and Hera doesn't.

darkmayo

Lucas wanted to have his cake and eat it too and he succeeded. Sure he wanted Star Wars to be "taken seriously" by adults but he gave up a chunk of directing fee in return for keeping licensing and merchandising rights to get the movie made. In 76 he approached Mego with the license, and they turned it down and Kenner ended up taking it. Star Wars was a hit with both adults and kids and the demand for Star Wars toys caught Kenner by surprise and we all (at least those of us who grew up at that time) know how that all unfolded. He wanted kids to enjoy the movie as they were the ones who were going to ask for the toys and he would get all that $$. Though if he could have had the movie made without needing to give up his fee would things have played out the same.

Dracomicron

Tastyfish wrote: »

dporowski wrote: »

It's worth noting that Star Wars was rated PG. This is the same rating Jaws got, for reference. The definition of "your kid can watch this" has shifted so amazingly far down over the years, that "for kids" then really doesn't map to "for kids" now. You just might have had to explain a few things for the little bugger, and they might be a little freaked out for a while sometimes. (The Dark Crystal and The Neverending Story come to mind, here, and yes the target audience for both involved children.)

And sometimes people just got ambitious, which I think blurs the line a bit too - I definitely remember seeing these in the stores and knew about the Xenomorph's unusual biology when these would have been aimed at me.

WHY does Bishop have a minigun? Dude wouldn't even take a pistol.

darkmayo

Dracomicron wrote: »

Tastyfish wrote: »

dporowski wrote: »

It's worth noting that Star Wars was rated PG. This is the same rating Jaws got, for reference. The definition of "your kid can watch this" has shifted so amazingly far down over the years, that "for kids" then really doesn't map to "for kids" now. You just might have had to explain a few things for the little bugger, and they might be a little freaked out for a while sometimes. (The Dark Crystal and The Neverending Story come to mind, here, and yes the target audience for both involved children.)

And sometimes people just got ambitious, which I think blurs the line a bit too - I definitely remember seeing these in the stores and knew about the Xenomorph's unusual biology when these would have been aimed at me.

WHY does Bishop have a minigun? Dude wouldn't even take a pistol.

Bishop wouldnt... but this is BISHOP. The all caps means he is all badass.

Dracomicron

darkmayo wrote: »

Dracomicron wrote: »

Tastyfish wrote: »

dporowski wrote: »

It's worth noting that Star Wars was rated PG. This is the same rating Jaws got, for reference. The definition of "your kid can watch this" has shifted so amazingly far down over the years, that "for kids" then really doesn't map to "for kids" now. You just might have had to explain a few things for the little bugger, and they might be a little freaked out for a while sometimes. (The Dark Crystal and The Neverending Story come to mind, here, and yes the target audience for both involved children.)

And sometimes people just got ambitious, which I think blurs the line a bit too - I definitely remember seeing these in the stores and knew about the Xenomorph's unusual biology when these would have been aimed at me.

WHY does Bishop have a minigun? Dude wouldn't even take a pistol.

Bishop wouldnt... but this is BISHOP. The all caps means he is all badass.

My mistake.

hlprmnky

darkmayo wrote: »

Dracomicron wrote: »

Tastyfish wrote: »

dporowski wrote: »

It's worth noting that Star Wars was rated PG. This is the same rating Jaws got, for reference. The definition of "your kid can watch this" has shifted so amazingly far down over the years, that "for kids" then really doesn't map to "for kids" now. You just might have had to explain a few things for the little bugger, and they might be a little freaked out for a while sometimes. (The Dark Crystal and The Neverending Story come to mind, here, and yes the target audience for both involved children.)

And sometimes people just got ambitious, which I think blurs the line a bit too - I definitely remember seeing these in the stores and knew about the Xenomorph's unusual biology when these would have been aimed at me.

WHY does Bishop have a minigun? Dude wouldn't even take a pistol.

Bishop wouldnt... but this is BISHOP. The all caps means he is all badass.

Honestly surprised given the era that it’s not B.I.S.H.O.P. with some horrible backronym cooked up for it.

Gnizmo

darkmayo wrote: »

Lucas wanted to have his cake and eat it too and he succeeded. Sure he wanted Star Wars to be "taken seriously" by adults but he gave up a chunk of directing fee in return for keeping licensing and merchandising rights to get the movie made. In 76 he approached Mego with the license, and they turned it down and Kenner ended up taking it. Star Wars was a hit with both adults and kids and the demand for Star Wars toys caught Kenner by surprise and we all (at least those of us who grew up at that time) know how that all unfolded. He wanted kids to enjoy the movie as they were the ones who were going to ask for the toys and he would get all that $$. Though if he could have had the movie made without needing to give up his fee would things have played out the same.

The details of the toy rights definitely show Lucas always saw it as a family affair. The major problem is people use "for kids" in place of being terribly executed. No one goes on long rants about what a terrible writer Dr. Seuss was, for example.

Xantomas

I don't remember Aliens having an O'Malley

darkmayo

Xantomas wrote: »

I don't remember Aliens having an O'Malley

I want my Wierzbowski action figure

Nechriah

I watched the first ep with my brother, so far it seems okay. Hera is kind of unsettling to look at, my brother let out a little “Agh!” when she first appeared on screen and I don’t think he’s seen Rebels to have any kind of idea of what she’s supposed to look like. I really liked the music, it sounds John Williamsy while still feeling distinct, and the track Sabine is listening to is a banger. Speaking of Sabine, she looks great, but I guess it’s easier to make a human character look like a human. I’m still not sure how I feel about Dawson as Ahsoka; she looks the part but the way she speaks is so slow and measured compared to how Ahsoka is in the cartoons. I did mention this to my brother, who is around the same age Ahsoka is supposed to be at this point and he said she’s probably just tired.

Kruite

Xantomas wrote: »

I don't remember Aliens having an O'Malley

These were all characters from a never released tv show.

The omalley, vasquez, and hudson figures I could never get my hands on.

I had most of that toy line

Atomika

The numbers for Ashoka’s first two episodes are in and it ain’t good.

https://deadline.com/2023/08/ahsoka-viewership-streaming-1235530030/amp/

It’s the lowest opening for a live-action Star Wars series on Disney+; interestingly, on-par with Andor but the jury’s still out of it will have the legs that series did, and I think anyone expecting the same critical acclaim will be sorely disappointed.

🤷‍♀️

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Vontre

Nah it's just bad marketing. Ahsoka is a bad character design (visually) and they put her on all the billboards so ya know, kinda what you expect would happen. They should consider having their scifi action shows feature characters that look cool, maybe they could make a character that kinda looks like Boba Fett, has the cool armor and the jetpack and stuff.

Inquisitor77

Yeah, Book of Boba Fett having a reverse halo effect is not a surprise. That show was so fucking bad. It was definitely made for kids.

Atomika

Vontre wrote: »

Nah it's just bad marketing. Ahsoka is a bad character design (visually) and they put her on all the billboards so ya know, kinda what you expect would happen. They should consider having their scifi action shows feature characters that look cool, maybe they could make a character that kinda looks like Boba Fett, has the cool armor and the jetpack and stuff.

I don’t think that’s it at all

I think it’s a simple as nobody outside the deepnerds knowing anything about Ahsoka Tano or the series she’s been featured in

Outside of The Mandalorian, Filoni has essentially zero clout in pop culture.

Vontre

Why not both?

Vontre

Did Book of Boba Fett get viewers? I heard it was bad but I'm interested in the initial uptake.

Atomika

Vontre wrote: »

Did Book of Boba Fett get viewers? I heard it was bad but I'm interested in the initial uptake.

BoBF scored a 1.7 to Ahsoka’s 1.4

I think Obi-Wan has the best premier at 2.8 or so

honovere

Atomika wrote: »

Vontre wrote: »

Did Book of Boba Fett get viewers? I heard it was bad but I'm interested in the initial uptake.

BoBF scored a 1.7 to Ahsoka’s 1.4

I think Obi-Wan has the best premier at 2.8 or so

So...basically name recognition?

Fencingsax

honovere wrote: »

Atomika wrote: »

Vontre wrote: »

Did Book of Boba Fett get viewers? I heard it was bad but I'm interested in the initial uptake.

BoBF scored a 1.7 to Ahsoka’s 1.4

I think Obi-Wan has the best premier at 2.8 or so

So...basically name recognition?

Also, probably diminishing returns on quality of Star Wars shows

SatanIsMyMotor

I enjoyed the first two eps granted I had no clue what was happening, having never watched Rebels.

Re: the rando masked Inquisitor that is there:

I hope it's too obvious that this guy is Ezra. Rumors abound that it may in fact be Starkiller from the video games being re-cannonized in SW lore?

Dracomicron

SatanIsMyMotor wrote: »

I enjoyed the first two eps granted I had no clue what was happening, having never watched Rebels.

Re: the rando masked Inquisitor that is there:

I hope it's too obvious that this guy is Ezra. Rumors abound that it may in fact be Starkiller from the video games being re-cannonized in SW lore?

I hope not, though it does seem obvious.

For that to be true, it would mean that either it isn't that hard to get back from the other galaxy or Ezra used the World Between Worlds to get back. The World Between Worlds is a level of time/space mystical bullshit that I don't see translating to this show well.

Honestly, had I not been a huge fan of Moorcock-style multiverse shenanigans going back decades, I wouldn't have tolerated it as well even in the cartoon.

see317

Dracomicron wrote: »

SatanIsMyMotor wrote: »

I enjoyed the first two eps granted I had no clue what was happening, having never watched Rebels.

Re: the rando masked Inquisitor that is there:

I hope it's too obvious that this guy is Ezra. Rumors abound that it may in fact be Starkiller from the video games being re-cannonized in SW lore?

I hope not, though it does seem obvious.

For that to be true, it would mean that either it isn't that hard to get back from the other galaxy or Ezra used the World Between Worlds to get back. The World Between Worlds is a level of time/space mystical bullshit that I don't see translating to this show well.

Honestly, had I not been a huge fan of Moorcock-style multiverse shenanigans going back decades, I wouldn't have tolerated it as well even in the cartoon.

RE: New Inquisitor.

What if it's Luuke?

Kamar

Saw it pointed out that Sir Marrok was an Arthurian knight whose wife turned him into a werewolf (with later elaborations saying she learned it from Morgan le Fey).

And that the name Marrok was previously used for the pet wolf-thing of a bounty hunter Filoni personally voiced in The Clone Wars, so it's not likely they've put a masked character with that name beside a Morgan by accident.

honovere

Dracomicron wrote: »

SatanIsMyMotor wrote: »

I enjoyed the first two eps granted I had no clue what was happening, having never watched Rebels.

Re: the rando masked Inquisitor that is there:

I hope it's too obvious that this guy is Ezra. Rumors abound that it may in fact be Starkiller from the video games being re-cannonized in SW lore?

I hope not, though it does seem obvious.

For that to be true, it would mean that either it isn't that hard to get back from the other galaxy or Ezra used the World Between Worlds to get back. The World Between Worlds is a level of time/space mystical bullshit that I don't see translating to this show well.

Honestly, had I not been a huge fan of Moorcock-style multiverse shenanigans going back decades, I wouldn't have tolerated it as well even in the cartoon.

World Between Worlds is already a rumour for the show. featuring character:

Anakin played by Hayden

The credits sequence already looks a bit like the World between Worlds

SatanIsMyMotor

In reality it will just be an all new character named Squee Blimblam who was a youngling who missed the purge because he was in the bathroom with space IBS.

Redcoat-13

I’ve not watched Asoka because the weather’s still nice.

I’d have watched it Friday for pizza and TV night with my wife and daughters but they went off with the grandparents that weekend as I was seeing university friends.

We’ll probably watch it this week.

I do find it exhausting that it seems unless a show starts off strong, or is immediately consumed in a week, then it’s seen as a failure.

I’ve not really watched any TV the last week or so, but because I might come late in to something I might like, I’m contributing to it being cancelled.