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[Elon Musk]: Tesladammerung

AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
In the latest incarnation of this forum's quarantine thread for news related to the wealthiest silly goose in the world and his travails, we are a day out from a vote on whether he should given back stock options for nearly 10% of Tesla, after it came out that the original grant was given under less than honest circumstances, leading to a judge to revoke it.

The subject of the thread has been quite a busy little goose, with him being accused of making $3B profit in insider trading, enriching himself by violating his fiduciary responsibility, and showing his business acumen by firing everyone in one of the most profitable Tesla deivisions.

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Don't forget the sexual harassment

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Don't forget the sexual harassment

    You're right, especially considering that he and SpaceX are being sued for firing employees warning about such:
    SpaceX and its chief executive, Elon Musk, were sued on Wednesday by eight engineers who say they were illegally fired for raising concerns about alleged sexual harassment and discrimination against women, their lawyers have said.

    The eight engineers include four women and four men and claim that Musk, who owns the rocket-maker, the electric carmaker Tesla and the social media platform Twitter/X, ordered their firing in 2022.

    It seems like the main product that Musk provides these firms is billable hours for their legal staff.

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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    Soon it is... Thursday.

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    GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    I continue to be amazed at how he was able to look at his shareholders and say he deserves to be given 56 billion dollars.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    I continue to be amazed at how he was able to look at his shareholders and say he deserves to be given 56 billion dollars.

    Ego is a hell of a drug.

    Also ketamine. Ketamine is a hell of a drug.

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    GyralGyral Registered User regular
    I'm a fan of him suing his lawyers for doing their job. Like, that takes some gigantic balls to hire them and use them to do a thing you said you wanted and then decide that you want your money back afterwards.

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    RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    If we're talking about what I think we're talking about (which is difficult to say, given how many silly things Elon is up to), it's even funnier than him suing his own lawyers.

    When he was trying to back out of buying Twitter, Twitter (as managed by its then owners) hired lawyers to make him finish buying it. The invoice was generated but not paid yet. Then Twitter became Elon's, and now he had to pay the bill owed to the lawyers for the service of suing him. And he had to sue them (or maybe the prior owners?) because he said they didn't try to get a good price since they knew they wouldn't be footing the bill (assuming the lawyers were successful at their jobs. Sort of a weird instance of, 'we'll only have to pay you if you don't win')

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    If we're talking about what I think we're talking about (which is difficult to say, given how many silly things Elon is up to), it's even funnier than him suing his own lawyers.

    When he was trying to back out of buying Twitter, Twitter (as managed by its then owners) hired lawyers to make him finish buying it. The invoice was generated but not paid yet. Then Twitter became Elon's, and now he had to pay the bill owed to the lawyers for the service of suing him. And he had to sue them (or maybe the prior owners?) because he said they didn't try to get a good price since they knew they wouldn't be footing the bill (assuming the lawyers were successful at their jobs. Sort of a weird instance of, 'we'll only have to pay you if you don't win')

    The reason he's suing them is because they planned for the "Musk tries to get out of a valid contract" contingency with how they set up the contract. And he's trying to do something similar with the lawyers who sued him over his stock grant, as they're requesting 10% of the clawback as an award (which is standard for this sort of thing.)

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    JFC the thread name.

    I don’t know which is worse, the pun you made or the fact that I understood it.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    JFC the thread name.

    I don’t know which is worse, the pun you made or the fact that I understood it.

    It was either that or Elondammerung, and that felt a little too on the nose.

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    You know I'm beginning to think "too rich to bribe" doesn't have much legs

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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited June 12
    Musklight of the Frauds

    Captain Inertia on
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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited June 12
    In response to the end of the last thread, he previously made views public because views were bigger than likes and retweets and the vast majority of people that are (were?) using Twitter would read things and press neither of the buttons

    Elon wanted line go up so they made the bigger number visible

    Burtletoy on
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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    If we're talking about what I think we're talking about (which is difficult to say, given how many silly things Elon is up to), it's even funnier than him suing his own lawyers.

    When he was trying to back out of buying Twitter, Twitter (as managed by its then owners) hired lawyers to make him finish buying it. The invoice was generated but not paid yet. Then Twitter became Elon's, and now he had to pay the bill owed to the lawyers for the service of suing him. And he had to sue them (or maybe the prior owners?) because he said they didn't try to get a good price since they knew they wouldn't be footing the bill (assuming the lawyers were successful at their jobs. Sort of a weird instance of, 'we'll only have to pay you if you don't win')

    The reason he's suing them is because they planned for the "Musk tries to get out of a valid contract" contingency with how they set up the contract. And he's trying to do something similar with the lawyers who sued him over his stock grant, as they're requesting 10% of the clawback as an award (which is standard for this sort of thing.)

    Musk set up the contract, twitter was not for sale and rejected his verbal offer to buy twitter. Twitter might have negotiated a bit, maybe the back out clause was added because of twitter?

    But the sale contract was elons idea and any clauses in it are the fault or elon and his lawyers.

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    Kane Red RobeKane Red Robe Master of Magic ArcanusRegistered User regular
    Yeah, like, I'll probably swear at the door a bit but it's definitely 100% my fault that I just slammed it on my dick.

    Man, I'm so good at metaphors.

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    MillMill Registered User regular
    The sexual harassment shit coming to light, which really shouldn't be a surprise given how much the circles of sexist asshole, racist asshole, criminal asshole and wealthy asshole overlap in a Venn diagram. Lead me to believe that it's only a matter of time before we also see a major ADA lawsuit filed against him. Some quick digging shows that there have apparently been ADA claims against him, but it's a PitA to do research on this, not just because of how shit generative AI, but this asshole has so many fuck ups, that I'm pretty sure stuff is being missed in the noise.

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    HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited June 12
    Mill wrote: »
    The sexual harassment shit coming to light, which really shouldn't be a surprise given how much the circles of sexist asshole, racist asshole, criminal asshole and wealthy asshole overlap in a Venn diagram. Lead me to believe that it's only a matter of time before we also see a major ADA lawsuit filed against him. Some quick digging shows that there have apparently been ADA claims against him, but it's a PitA to do research on this, not just because of how shit generative AI, but this asshole has so many fuck ups, that I'm pretty sure stuff is being missed in the noise.

    Yeah, I was trying to track down a specific lawsuit against SpaceX from 2022 the other day and even knowing the plaintiff Google was like, "Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?"

    Hevach on
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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    So, you know how Twitter made likes private?

    Apparently, they did a slapdash "remove the button, nobody will notice" job to start:
    just a friendly PSA your likes aren't really "private" now. if you add a /likes after someone's profile URL you can still see them because they weren't actually made secure, the button was just removed lmfao

    It's since been fixed, but...what the fuck?

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    If we're talking about what I think we're talking about (which is difficult to say, given how many silly things Elon is up to), it's even funnier than him suing his own lawyers.

    When he was trying to back out of buying Twitter, Twitter (as managed by its then owners) hired lawyers to make him finish buying it. The invoice was generated but not paid yet. Then Twitter became Elon's, and now he had to pay the bill owed to the lawyers for the service of suing him. And he had to sue them (or maybe the prior owners?) because he said they didn't try to get a good price since they knew they wouldn't be footing the bill (assuming the lawyers were successful at their jobs. Sort of a weird instance of, 'we'll only have to pay you if you don't win')

    The reason he's suing them is because they planned for the "Musk tries to get out of a valid contract" contingency with how they set up the contract. And he's trying to do something similar with the lawyers who sued him over his stock grant, as they're requesting 10% of the clawback as an award (which is standard for this sort of thing.)

    Musk set up the contract, twitter was not for sale and rejected his verbal offer to buy twitter. Twitter might have negotiated a bit, maybe the back out clause was added because of twitter?

    But the sale contract was elons idea and any clauses in it are the fault or elon and his lawyers.

    Musk didn't set up the contract. A team of legal experts in Delaware contract law hired by Twitter did.

    Which he then signed while waiving due diligence.

    Smartest. Businessman. Alive.

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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    Are you sure? My understanding was the elon made an unsolicited offer to buy twitter and Twitter agreed to musks terms.

    j50ny7fev4c1.jpg

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    Are you sure? My understanding was the elon made an unsolicited offer to buy twitter and Twitter agreed to musks terms.

    j50ny7fev4c1.jpg

    He made the offer.

    Twitter made the contract.

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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited June 13
    I'm trying to find any information on who made the contract and coming up empty, do you have a cite handy?

    The people he is suing were hired by twitter to help enforce the deal after musk tried to back out. They didn't have anything to do with the buyout contract or offer from what I see.

    Burtletoy on
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    BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited June 13
    Here is the "merger agreement"

    https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1418091/000119312522120474/d310843ddefa14a.htm

    I can't find who was in charge of writing it, the only name I see mentioned in a very quick skim (it's like a hundred pages of legalese) is the twitter CFO

    But the people he is suing aren't involved in the merger agreement, they were hired to help enforce it after elon said he was backing out. The contract was signed before twitter started using their services.

    Burtletoy on
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    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    The sexual harassment shit coming to light, which really shouldn't be a surprise given how much the circles of sexist asshole, racist asshole, criminal asshole and wealthy asshole overlap in a Venn diagram. Lead me to believe that it's only a matter of time before we also see a major ADA lawsuit filed against him. Some quick digging shows that there have apparently been ADA claims against him, but it's a PitA to do research on this, not just because of how shit generative AI, but this asshole has so many fuck ups, that I'm pretty sure stuff is being missed in the noise.

    He paid someone off who claimed he sexually assaulted her while her job was to give him massages on his plane or something

    Something about “she couldn’t even describe what my dick looks like” as a defense iirc

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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited June 15
    So, you know how Twitter made likes private?

    Apparently, they did a slapdash "remove the button, nobody will notice" job to start:
    just a friendly PSA your likes aren't really "private" now. if you add a /likes after someone's profile URL you can still see them because they weren't actually made secure, the button was just removed lmfao

    It's since been fixed, but...what the fuck?

    Did they make a big deal about them now being completely removed, or did they just do it? Updating the web frontend to remove references to something before actually removing it from the backend makes sense.

    jothki on
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    KamarKamar Registered User regular
    edited June 13
    Tesla's weird because its drastic overvaluation is probably directly linked to Elon's unwarranted reputation as some sort of tech genius, so even if he's a complete fuckup robbing the company and dragging it down terms of actually deserving to be worth anything, he's probably still the most important part of keeping the stock valuable?

    Kamar on
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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Kamar wrote: »
    Tesla's weird because it's drastic overvaluation is probably directly linked to Elon's unwarranted reputation as some sort of tech genius, so even if he's a complete fuckup robbing the company and dragging it down terms of actually deserving to be worth anything, he's probably still the most important part of keeping the stock valuable?

    Not if he keeps plundering it.

    steam_sig.png
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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Kamar wrote: »
    Tesla's weird because it's drastic overvaluation is probably directly linked to Elon's unwarranted reputation as some sort of tech genius, so even if he's a complete fuckup robbing the company and dragging it down terms of actually deserving to be worth anything, he's probably still the most important part of keeping the stock valuable?

    Not if he keeps plundering it.

    Yeah, this looks like a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" situation.

    They give Musk the money, the company hollows out a large chunk of it's effectiveness, it's ability to innovate, offer dividends, or even just survive. Someone in the previous thread cranked the numbers and mentioned it'd be a decent percentage of each Tesla sold. Quick google search says Tesla has sold ~$5M vehicles. Meaning basic math says <$10K of every Tesla sold. As Teslas appear to be in the $40-80K range, that's 12-25% of revenue (not profit) taken from each sale of every car, over the entire history of the company.

    They don't give Musk the money, he leaves, and the stock, buoyed by his reputation, tanks pretty hard. Because the stock is (again, mentioned in the previous thread) massively overvalued. Literally more than ten times that of GM ($565B vs $55B).

    Which is also why they're balking. He's literally trying to extract 10% of the company's value as a payment. If he'd asked for a more reasonable amount, I doubt this would be getting the pushback.

    Regardless of the decision, their investment is on shaky ground.

    But he's also clearly getting more erratic, and his reputation for "genius" is tanking pretty hard. With no guarantee he won't destabilise it further.

    So it looks like investors in the "no" are going to defer the pain, or at least make sure that Musk gets dragged down with them. Will be interesting to see how this goes if the votes are there to deny him, when the deadline expires today.

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Musk claims that shareholders voted for the package, but let's see if he's lying.

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    MillMill Registered User regular
    I mean, if the insider trading stuff goes anywhere, which I hope, that might do a pretty big number on his bullshit reputation.

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I think his reputation's already as dead as it can get with people who can be swayed. All he has left is the True Believers who won't be convinced otherwise even if he goes to jail for All The Crimes.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Not a doctor Tree townRegistered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    I think his reputation's already as dead as it can get with people who can be swayed. All he has left is the True Believers who won't be convinced otherwise even if he goes to jail for All The Crimes.

    Sounds like someone else we talk about a lot in this forum...

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    Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Musk claims that shareholders voted for the package, but let's see if he's lying.

    Given what we've been hearing all week, this really doesn't pass the smell test. But then I could certainly see institutional investors like ARK giving him all the money in the world so who knows. Maybe they really are dumb enough to give him the money. Still, this is Musk we're talking about. Were I an institutional investor I'd be double and trip checking that my votes were tallied correctly.

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    RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    Eh, while people can't really avoid having strong feelings about Trump, I don't think Elon is there. I think a lot of people who don't follow the specifics just think of Elon as a really rich dude. So he's kinda weird but hey, ain't celebrities quirky? But he sat down in a chair facing a smart guy reporter and said you just gotta work hard and be ambitious, and ain't that the truth. He seems like a weirdo to me, but I don't have money, so he's gotta be doing something right.

    He needs a bigger breakdown to get to the "only absolute nuts think positively about him" stage. And he's doing his darndest to get there...

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    GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    I know authoritarianism and susceptibility to cults of personality are tied together but as someone who approached essay prompts about personal heroes like Lazlo announcing himself as a Regular Human Being and just writing someone anodyne about Lincoln hoping it'd pass, I have never been able to really empathize with folks that can't believe their favorite celebrity or whatever is a big [problematic character].

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    Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Musk claims that shareholders voted for the package, but let's see if he's lying.

    From this article
    A number of investors, including Norway’s sovereign wealth fund and the California State Teachers’ Retirement System, have already indicated they will reject the pay package. The proxy advisory firms Glass Lewis and Institutional Shareholder Services have also urged shareholders to oppose the award

    The article also goes onto say that even if it's approved, there would still be other legal issues; eg: the Delaware Court.

    PSN Fleety2009
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    ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    They're probably going to fucking pay him because we live in the dumbest timeline.

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    HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    They're probably going to fucking pay him because we live in the dumbest timeline.

    I doubt it. Everyone who gets a vote on the matter knows that paying Elon is basically just taking money from their pocket.

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    HerculePyroHerculePyro Lord Mayor's CroupierRegistered User regular
    Heffling wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    They're probably going to fucking pay him because we live in the dumbest timeline.

    I doubt it. Everyone who gets a vote on the matter knows that paying Elon is basically just taking money from their pocket.

    "Pee on us, Will WrightElon Musk!"

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Heffling wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    They're probably going to fucking pay him because we live in the dumbest timeline.

    I doubt it. Everyone who gets a vote on the matter knows that paying Elon is basically just taking money from their pocket.

    From what I've been reading, Tesla has an unusually high amount of stock owned by retail owners - about 40%. These are in large part the Musk stans who own the stock because of their parasocial relationship with the subject of the thread, as opposed to being invested as part of a properly considered portfolio.

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