The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
[Diablo] Vessel of Hatred & S6: Spiritborn, etc. & Realmwalkers
Think I'm souring on this game a bit now that I'm engaging fully with pushing endgame. The tuning just seems really off and sets up a bad feedback loop. Tormented/Uber bosses seem to be setup for extremely high spike damage that results in OHKs which just doesn't feel good. High damage boss attacks is fine and expected but not knowing what got you and why is bad feedback.
I remember in D2 Diablo had his red lightning beam thing and it hurt like a bastard but you had time to process "I cannot face tank this I should move or identity what's wrong with my build." If I'm comfortably ziping through everything else in, oh say, Torment 3 then a Torment 3 boss shouldn't just OHK me. It can certainly beat my ass and take huge chunks of my health out giving me a chance to identify wtf I'm doing wrong, but not just obliterate me out of nowhere.
It also doesn't help that the visual feedback in this game is kinda shitty exacerbating the issue of trying to figure out why you died. At the very least they could do what Last Epoch does and tell you on the death screen what got you and why.
Also something is bungled with some aspects. I found everything else for the Barb but it took dedicated target farming rings for a couple of days to get Aspect of Giant Strides to drop and it looks like that's been a problem for a while. After digging around it seems other classes have their own one or two aspects that have atrociously bad drop rates for no good reason. It's not like a fun aspect for mid tier leap builds needs to be super rare for some reason either. The build defining mighty throw aspect is easy as hell to get so ???
Just...eh....this is feeling kinda amateur hour the further I push into the nitty gritty.
The Ubers have attacks that build stacks that eventually turn their hits into OHKO. They are generally telegraphed and can be dodged, or you can facetank several hits before they become OHKO. You just need to learn the tells, or outdps them.
Andarial has a firestream that basically generally feels OHKO on T3 or higher, but most of the other Ubers are more about breaking the damage threshold to trivialize, or learning the patterns to not hit the OHKO mark.
Lillith originally was basically mostly OHKOs, and it sucked and people just pushed builds that could one shot (and she had a OHKO basically at her death phase as well, which sucked - lost a HC Barb during her death anim), but the design is better now and actually makes it a learning experience.
Doesn't really change my opinion that that's just bad design. Nowhere else in the game does that debuff exist and the dodge is pretty useless everywhere else too so you're not taught in advance to worry about either of those things. The whole thing reeks of "we couldn't figure out how else to make these fights interesting."
And sure, being on Steam Deck makes it easy to miss a new icon popping up in a sea of icons, but also a debuff like that needs to be communicated better when it happens. If there is some sort of coloured indicator or something in the player character or something then it needs a different colour cause that shit is blending in way too well.
i understand where you are coming from but the presentation is inline with what Blizz typically does. I mean outside of mods to make alarms for the icons on the screen like WoW the information is there for you to see. It is more than what other ARPGs in the space do for their end game fights that also have OHKO. It should always be near the "top" (left) too from what i remember in my kills of lilith. I guess putting a spark on her is the problem. Sparks for me arent the problem its the damn rune drops heh.
In a game with so much variety of how much defense a build can have, this sort of penalty mechanic is the only real way you can design a boss where the player is expected to learn the fight and not just face tank it.
In a game with so much variety of how much defense a build can have, this sort of penalty mechanic is the only real way you can design a boss where the player is expected to learn the fight and not just face tank it.
I think my main rub with it is just the presentation of it. There's no prior introduction of those sorta mechanics and they're not communicated very clearly resulting in not understanding why you're dying so it just feels like a band-aid solution. Especially since these bosses all have the same OHK debuff mechanic and don't put their own spin on it.
EDIT: Now that I'm actually watching for this mechanic to learn it and work around it it turns out Pit bosses do it too but I've been killing them so fast due to prior D3 Rift pushing experience that I never triggered the effect so I never noticed the debuff. If I couldn't sprint through a Pit level I'd go back and gear farm because it meant I wasn't ready for the next Torment difficulty so I'd either be quitting before getting slapped by the boss or just outright nuking them.
DJKhaledSufferingFromSuccess.jpg
I'm in striking distance of Torment 4 now. Just need to tune my stuff up a little further and I should be good to go.
TOGSolid on
0
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
the year is 2056
im playing a d2 mod that starts u with the cube
i full clear the halls of the dead anyway and make my four hundredth mental note "oh, i started with the cube, i dont need to do this on normal"
- Lots of class changes and various aspect /skill redesigns. New uniques that fully transform skills.
- Summon skills now all have the Summon tag, and attribute all damage to the player. They trigger all lucky hit effects, and can trigger aspect procs etc that apply to the player.
Minion necros are gonna be nuts next season. It'll be nice to have a full aspect/tempering selection instead of having to ignore like half of them since they're lucky hit-based.
Helllooooo, Torment 4. I do have more work to do for T4 to be as buttery smooth as T3 so it was kinda silly to do the unlock run but after all the upgrades I did this evening I was staring at Pit lvl 65 like 🤔
TOGSolid on
0
Sirialisof the Halite Throne.Registered Userregular
edited December 2024
Booted this game up again and made another Necromancer, did the seasonal journey thing and got 2 Resplendent shards, bought a Mythic and could really use a Grandfather (got 2 during another season), Tyreals Might (never gotten one before) and this new one, Heir of Perdition (never gotten one before)… Drumroll - Its another fucking Doombringer, I thinks its my 6th overall, its also useless on this character.
Not a fan of them adding RNG to you buying Mythics.
Booted this game up again and made another Necromancer, did the seasonal journey thing and got 2 Resplendent shards, bought a Mythic and could really use a Grandfather (got 2 during another season), Tyreals Might (never gotten one before) and this new one, Heir of Perdition (never gotten one before)… Drumroll - Its another fucking Doombringer, I thinks its my 6th overall, its also useless on this character.
Not a fan of them adding RNG to you buying Mythics.
With vessel of hatred, mythics are still deterministic. You need specific runes now. 6 legendary, 6 Rare, and 6 Magic + 2 Shards. The RNG method is if you do not use runes. You have to talk to the gemcrafter to see those recipes.
Edit: If you are in the season I can take you through some bosses to try and get you at least 1 mythic, you can shard the doombringer, and I can give you the runes you need for the mythic you want.
DireOtter on
If you are reading this add me.
Bnet: DireOtter#11965, PSN: DireOtter, Live: DireOtter
0
Sirialisof the Halite Throne.Registered Userregular
Booted this game up again and made another Necromancer, did the seasonal journey thing and got 2 Resplendent shards, bought a Mythic and could really use a Grandfather (got 2 during another season), Tyreals Might (never gotten one before) and this new one, Heir of Perdition (never gotten one before)… Drumroll - Its another fucking Doombringer, I thinks its my 6th overall, its also useless on this character.
Not a fan of them adding RNG to you buying Mythics.
With vessel of hatred, mythics are still deterministic. You need specific runes now. 6 legendary, 6 Rare, and 6 Magic + 2 Shards. The RNG method is if you do not use runes. You have to talk to the gemcrafter to see those recipes.
Edit: If you are in the season I can take you through some bosses to try and get you at least 1 mythic, you can shard the doombringer, and I can give you the runes you need for the mythic you want.
Thanks for the offer I appreciate it, a lot has happened since I made that post though, I sharded the Doombringer and bought a random mythic, got a 2GA Shroud of False Death, that was enough of a push to make a Spiritborn who can now basically solo up to Pit 125 so far, its nuts.
I think I have 7 Mythics now, but I still only use Shroud of False Death. (I did get a 2GA Tyraels too)
Got most of the Greater Khazra set from Dark Citadel too, only missing arms.
Just too bad they stopped the extra XP and Treasure Goblin event already.
Not sure if they'll have much to say besides changes from PTR. This season's changes seem good to me, especially the armory, but I kinda feel like it's been forever since I last thought about Diablo. Maybe because they've been radio silent for like a month. So I hope they've got some more things to talk about with the future of the game.
Posts
I remember in D2 Diablo had his red lightning beam thing and it hurt like a bastard but you had time to process "I cannot face tank this I should move or identity what's wrong with my build." If I'm comfortably ziping through everything else in, oh say, Torment 3 then a Torment 3 boss shouldn't just OHK me. It can certainly beat my ass and take huge chunks of my health out giving me a chance to identify wtf I'm doing wrong, but not just obliterate me out of nowhere.
It also doesn't help that the visual feedback in this game is kinda shitty exacerbating the issue of trying to figure out why you died. At the very least they could do what Last Epoch does and tell you on the death screen what got you and why.
Also something is bungled with some aspects. I found everything else for the Barb but it took dedicated target farming rings for a couple of days to get Aspect of Giant Strides to drop and it looks like that's been a problem for a while. After digging around it seems other classes have their own one or two aspects that have atrociously bad drop rates for no good reason. It's not like a fun aspect for mid tier leap builds needs to be super rare for some reason either. The build defining mighty throw aspect is easy as hell to get so ???
Just...eh....this is feeling kinda amateur hour the further I push into the nitty gritty.
Andarial has a firestream that basically generally feels OHKO on T3 or higher, but most of the other Ubers are more about breaking the damage threshold to trivialize, or learning the patterns to not hit the OHKO mark.
Lillith originally was basically mostly OHKOs, and it sucked and people just pushed builds that could one shot (and she had a OHKO basically at her death phase as well, which sucked - lost a HC Barb during her death anim), but the design is better now and actually makes it a learning experience.
And sure, being on Steam Deck makes it easy to miss a new icon popping up in a sea of icons, but also a debuff like that needs to be communicated better when it happens. If there is some sort of coloured indicator or something in the player character or something then it needs a different colour cause that shit is blending in way too well.
Again, it still seems amateur hour.
I think my main rub with it is just the presentation of it. There's no prior introduction of those sorta mechanics and they're not communicated very clearly resulting in not understanding why you're dying so it just feels like a band-aid solution. Especially since these bosses all have the same OHK debuff mechanic and don't put their own spin on it.
EDIT: Now that I'm actually watching for this mechanic to learn it and work around it it turns out Pit bosses do it too but I've been killing them so fast due to prior D3 Rift pushing experience that I never triggered the effect so I never noticed the debuff. If I couldn't sprint through a Pit level I'd go back and gear farm because it meant I wasn't ready for the next Torment difficulty so I'd either be quitting before getting slapped by the boss or just outright nuking them.
DJKhaledSufferingFromSuccess.jpg
I'm in striking distance of Torment 4 now. Just need to tune my stuff up a little further and I should be good to go.
im playing a d2 mod that starts u with the cube
i full clear the halls of the dead anyway and make my four hundredth mental note "oh, i started with the cube, i dont need to do this on normal"
the cycle repeats
Minion necros are gonna be nuts next season. It'll be nice to have a full aspect/tempering selection instead of having to ignore like half of them since they're lucky hit-based.
Not a fan of them adding RNG to you buying Mythics.
With vessel of hatred, mythics are still deterministic. You need specific runes now. 6 legendary, 6 Rare, and 6 Magic + 2 Shards. The RNG method is if you do not use runes. You have to talk to the gemcrafter to see those recipes.
Edit: If you are in the season I can take you through some bosses to try and get you at least 1 mythic, you can shard the doombringer, and I can give you the runes you need for the mythic you want.
Bnet: DireOtter#11965, PSN: DireOtter, Live: DireOtter
Thanks for the offer I appreciate it, a lot has happened since I made that post though, I sharded the Doombringer and bought a random mythic, got a 2GA Shroud of False Death, that was enough of a push to make a Spiritborn who can now basically solo up to Pit 125 so far, its nuts.
I think I have 7 Mythics now, but I still only use Shroud of False Death. (I did get a 2GA Tyraels too)
Got most of the Greater Khazra set from Dark Citadel too, only missing arms.
Just too bad they stopped the extra XP and Treasure Goblin event already.
Not sure if they'll have much to say besides changes from PTR. This season's changes seem good to me, especially the armory, but I kinda feel like it's been forever since I last thought about Diablo. Maybe because they've been radio silent for like a month. So I hope they've got some more things to talk about with the future of the game.
I've played for this week and they made D4 fun. Good on Blizzard for making it happen.
There are so many endgame things it's getting stupid to figure out which particular thing I should do next.