The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.

UPDATE ON TIMELINE: The Future of the Penny Arcade Forums

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Posts

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Cybertronian Paranormal Eliminator Registered User regular
    I hang out in a couple of forums that appear to be fairly independent (they're both attached to Transformers news sites, but no higher ownership that I can tell)

    Would any mods be interested in me trying to set up a meeting so you can pick their brains re: the software they're using, pitfalls to avoid, dealing with legal jazz and keeping the lights on etc. etc.?

    I barely know the admin on one site and not at all on the other, so I don't want to give the impression that I have an "in" but I've been posting on both places for longer than even Penny-Arcade, so I might still be able to swing it.

  • qwer12qwer12 Registered User regular
    First order of business should be assigning an project manager asap so that we can have someone to actually manage the transition. The mod team can then act as the primary stakeholders, i.e. the "customer" representing the greater forum. But we need to this soon since the timeline has gone up, and we haven't even formalized the actual requirements and scope yet.

    steam_sig.png

    PSN: jrrl_absent
  • Kane Red RobeKane Red Robe Master of Magic ArcanusRegistered User regular
    Dang stakeholders always pushing the timeline to the left.

  • TynnanTynnan seldom correct, never unsure Registered User regular
    Tynnan wrote: »
    I think it does change whether doing a total database migration is feasible or warranted. Although it pushes things up by quite a bit, it might simplify certain decisions.

    A total DB migration to something like flarum or (this would be terrible and i do not recommend) free vanilla would actually be the easiest/fastest technical way to do things from what i've seen, you drop unsupported custom things but getting all forums, posts, users, roles over 1:1 is easy. opensource tools exist to do so. It's cutting things out or making changes that would lengthen and complicate things.

    Will this fly with GDPR?

  • minor incidentminor incident expert in a dying field ---Registered User, Transition Team regular
    Tynnan wrote: »
    Tynnan wrote: »
    I think it does change whether doing a total database migration is feasible or warranted. Although it pushes things up by quite a bit, it might simplify certain decisions.

    A total DB migration to something like flarum or (this would be terrible and i do not recommend) free vanilla would actually be the easiest/fastest technical way to do things from what i've seen, you drop unsupported custom things but getting all forums, posts, users, roles over 1:1 is easy. opensource tools exist to do so. It's cutting things out or making changes that would lengthen and complicate things.

    Will this fly with GDPR?

    The fact that it would probably be worth a consultation with a lawyer to be sure is plenty of reason, imo, to not bother migrating anything. But I’ve already made my case for why I think a clean slate is a better starting point than carrying over old posts.

    Ah, it stinks, it sucks, it's anthropologically unjust
  • TynnanTynnan seldom correct, never unsure Registered User regular
    Tynnan wrote: »
    Tynnan wrote: »
    I think it does change whether doing a total database migration is feasible or warranted. Although it pushes things up by quite a bit, it might simplify certain decisions.

    A total DB migration to something like flarum or (this would be terrible and i do not recommend) free vanilla would actually be the easiest/fastest technical way to do things from what i've seen, you drop unsupported custom things but getting all forums, posts, users, roles over 1:1 is easy. opensource tools exist to do so. It's cutting things out or making changes that would lengthen and complicate things.

    Will this fly with GDPR?

    The fact that it would probably be worth a consultation with a lawyer to be sure is plenty of reason, imo, to not bother migrating anything. But I’ve already made my case for why I think a clean slate is a better starting point than carrying over old posts.

    Yeah, that was my point earlier. The new timeline puts into question whether a full migration is warranted or feasible, and might simplify the decision of whether to even bother doing it versus clean slate signups.

  • DibbitDibbit Registered User, Transition Team regular
    edited October 30
    Tynnan wrote: »
    Tynnan wrote: »
    Tynnan wrote: »
    I think it does change whether doing a total database migration is feasible or warranted. Although it pushes things up by quite a bit, it might simplify certain decisions.

    A total DB migration to something like flarum or (this would be terrible and i do not recommend) free vanilla would actually be the easiest/fastest technical way to do things from what i've seen, you drop unsupported custom things but getting all forums, posts, users, roles over 1:1 is easy. opensource tools exist to do so. It's cutting things out or making changes that would lengthen and complicate things.

    Will this fly with GDPR?

    The fact that it would probably be worth a consultation with a lawyer to be sure is plenty of reason, imo, to not bother migrating anything. But I’ve already made my case for why I think a clean slate is a better starting point than carrying over old posts.

    Yeah, that was my point earlier. The new timeline puts into question whether a full migration is warranted or feasible, and might simplify the decision of whether to even bother doing it versus clean slate signups.

    Meh, PA has the following disclosure:
    Business Transitions. In the event that PA goes through a business transition such as a merger, acquisition by another company, or sale of all or a portion of its assets, your Personal Information will likely be among the assets transferred. In such a case, your Personal Information would remain subject to the terms of the pre-existing and current Privacy Policy until such time as you are notified that the different terms shall apply.

    Meaning that we can keep using the data for its original intent. (PA's agreement says Personal Identifying information might be used to authenticate, and that's the only PII we really have, forum posts are public and don't fall under this limitation)

    Now, I'm not a lawyer, but I do think perserving as much of the original forum is at least worth a try, and it does not look insurmountable.

    Dibbit on
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Good, good.
    Things had gotten much too comfortable and bike sheddy, now we have something new to run around and freak out about. :p

  • Space PickleSpace Pickle Registered User regular
    We should call one of the new forums "the bike shed"

  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Honestly while a 7 month vs 13 month timeline does change the urgency of a few things, the timeline is still perfectly manageable.

    We've already got a framework of the post-PA forum legal / regulatory / financial platform we're working with, what needs to be done to migrate over, and candidates for migration that are largely a few day turnkey to at least get going. As well as a lot of people stepping up to do work they've mostly already done before and are confident can be done again here.

    It's going to be navigating the um cultural differences and future-state forum expectations and how those sort out that we haven't really even touched on. Those are going to be the make or break when it comes to a successful migration and none of that is really dependent on timeline. There are probably going to be some ugly and hard discussions and decisions coming up because there seem to be different pictures of where people want the forums to end up, and questions about if a semi-amicable divorce is the better outcome.

    My opinion is all those discussions should be tabled for a week or two until we get past the most stressful and fearful week of most of our lives OUTSIDE the forum but I assume people are still going to want to argue that if nothing but as an escape from all that's happening next Tuesday.

  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    qwer12 wrote: »
    First order of business should be assigning an project manager asap so that we can have someone to actually manage the transition. The mod team can then act as the primary stakeholders, i.e. the "customer" representing the greater forum. But we need to this soon since the timeline has gone up, and we haven't even formalized the actual requirements and scope yet.

    I know a lot of people are really going to hate it, but @spool32 based on what has been said seems uniquely capable and experienced in handling this kind of transition. Most importantly, seems willing to take the role in doing it.

  • valhalla130valhalla130 13 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered User regular
    I still am very confused where these new members are going to be coming from. What unique selling point is a forum of a few hundred middle aged nerds going to have to attract people?

    We can sell those calendars like the firefighters do.

    Y'know. Bring in new blood with our rockin' bods.

    "Come join this forum and participate OR I will put out a calendar of my bod."

    asxcjbppb2eo.jpg
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    I still am very confused where these new members are going to be coming from. What unique selling point is a forum of a few hundred middle aged nerds going to have to attract people?

    We can sell those calendars like the firefighters do.

    Y'know. Bring in new blood with our rockin' bods.

    "Come join this forum and participate OR I will put out a calendar of my bod."

    All I know is that if I’m lookin at a sexy calendar of dudes I expect them to have their tarps off

  • dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    We should call one of the new forums "the bike shed"

    I refer "the vehicle shed". It's not fair to just restrict it to bikes.

  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products, Transition Team regular
    edited October 30
    zagdrob wrote: »
    qwer12 wrote: »
    First order of business should be assigning an project manager asap so that we can have someone to actually manage the transition. The mod team can then act as the primary stakeholders, i.e. the "customer" representing the greater forum. But we need to this soon since the timeline has gone up, and we haven't even formalized the actual requirements and scope yet.

    I know a lot of people are really going to hate it, but @spool32 based on what has been said seems uniquely capable and experienced in handling this kind of transition. Most importantly, seems willing to take the role in doing it.

    yeah I would love spool to run point on this if we can.

    I can vouch personally for his ability to handle shit way more complicated than this.

    syndalis on
    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
  • Space PickleSpace Pickle Registered User regular
    Well then, let's...Spool it up

    /sunglasses

    YYYYYEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHH

  • wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    And one thing worth pointing out is that we don't have until May 21. We have, at the latest, until mid-April. There absolutely needs to be a buffer and a period of time where this forum is still up, but everything is locked and the only thing on it is a "hey go to the new forum at https://whereverthenewforumis.com.

    We absolutely cannot be posting here on May 20th and expect to be posting to the new place on May 21st.

    This means we must be onto the new place in 6 months.

    This really means focusing on the nuts and bolts of the actual forum move and the logistics involved around actually running the thing and worrying about future state and moderation/culture/other stuff on new forums until we have new forums to go to.

    XBL: thewunderbar PSN: thewunderbar NNID: thewunderbar Steam: wunderbar87 Twitter: wunderbar
  • expendableexpendable Silly Goose Registered User regular
    April 15th sounds like a fantastic date to target.

    1) It's well before the drop-dead date of May 21. No schedule ever survives first contact and all that, good amount of buffer.
    2) It's midweek. But maybe a weekend is better since this isn't exactly a regular work project?
    3) I pulled it straight out of my ass.

    Djiem wrote: »
    Lokiamis wrote: »
    So the servers suddenly decide to cramp up during the last six percent.
    Man, the Director will really go out of his way to be a dick to L4D players.
    Steam
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    It was that thread about getting older on the internet and another? about this forum from last year in D&D that made me think about this
    Where would I go? I mean I don't go to reddit or anywhere else {like the wow forums at all}

  • bowenbowen Sup? Registered User regular
    expendable wrote: »
    April 15th sounds like a fantastic date to target.

    1) It's well before the drop-dead date of May 21. No schedule ever survives first contact and all that, good amount of buffer.
    2) It's midweek. But maybe a weekend is better since this isn't exactly a regular work project?
    3) I pulled it straight out of my ass.

    You'd probably want at least a 3 month lead time to have a banner up here and essentially lock the forums down so people migrate their accounts. There's a few people that don't check very often and it'd be nice to give them as much notice as possible.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • FishmanFishman Put your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain. Registered User regular
    Yeah, it'd be nice to have redirects in place for anyone who has direct forum bookmarks looking for the forums even after an April/May cutover. It doesn't even need to be linked to from the frontpage in any way, but actual infrequent drive-bys might come along well after May.
    PA Corp were originally on board with a December switchover, so 6 months of 'these don't exist any more, but the community moved here' would be nice.

    X-Com LP Thread I, II, III, IV, V
    That's unbelievably cool. Your new name is cool guy. Let's have sex.
  • FishmanFishman Put your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain. Registered User regular
    expendable wrote: »
    April 15th sounds like a fantastic date to target.

    1) It's well before the drop-dead date of May 21. No schedule ever survives first contact and all that, good amount of buffer.
    2) It's midweek. But maybe a weekend is better since this isn't exactly a regular work project?
    3) I pulled it straight out of my ass.

    Two days before Easter long weekend. Not sure if that's good or bad.

    X-Com LP Thread I, II, III, IV, V
    That's unbelievably cool. Your new name is cool guy. Let's have sex.
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    So, I'm not a project manager but in my day job I'm pretty good at listening to people ask for something and immediately responding with, "That's out of scope", and walking away.

    If you need someone to do that just let me know and I'm happy to volunteer my services.

  • chromdomchromdom Who? Where?Registered User regular
    I need a hamburger, Inquisitor.

  • MercadeMercade Registered User regular
    expendable wrote: »
    April 15th sounds like a fantastic date to target.

    1) It's well before the drop-dead date of May 21. No schedule ever survives first contact and all that, good amount of buffer.
    2) It's midweek. But maybe a weekend is better since this isn't exactly a regular work project?
    3) I pulled it straight out of my ass.

    April feels a little too close for comfort. Who knows if the goalposts will move on us again. There are some primary dates and milestones to define first, and soon: funding/financial plan, tech solution plan, staffing plan, and data migration plan (if any). I'd say getting all that figured out plus a basic, operable forum up by like, March, is a reachable goal. All the finer points can be worked out in time.

    Switch: SW-1909-0466-9585
  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderator mod
    zagdrob wrote: »
    qwer12 wrote: »
    First order of business should be assigning an project manager asap so that we can have someone to actually manage the transition. The mod team can then act as the primary stakeholders, i.e. the "customer" representing the greater forum. But we need to this soon since the timeline has gone up, and we haven't even formalized the actual requirements and scope yet.

    I know a lot of people are really going to hate it, but spool32 based on what has been said seems uniquely capable and experienced in handling this kind of transition. Most importantly, seems willing to take the role in doing it.

    I think it's definitely worth thinking about this in terms of everyone teaming up at the end of the movie because they can't defeat the aliens on their own. The actual forum that most of the people posting in this thread spend, if we're being honest, probably more than a little too much time on, is disappearing. Our primary concern, at least with regards to this difficult transition, is in a very real way the survival of our shared space. And with the new timeline, we really don't have a lot of extra room for fucking up.

    (it seems like the discussion(s) in the working forum are going really well, I just really want to stress that, for once, we are all united in our common interest. Either we succeed at this, or we perish entirely. No one has to put away grudges in every aspect of everything, but the Worst Guy You Know is probably going to make a few great points about neutral topics during the transition, and we should all strive to accept when this happens, to save the forum we all love, even if we don't always love everyone in it.)

  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    chromdom wrote: »
    I need a hamburger, Inquisitor.

    Thank you for this feedback. Unfortunately, we can only commit to providing sliced deli meats between two seedless hamburger buns at this time. Based upon our research and stakeholder input, we believe that this will suffice for 82% of specified lunch meals. Your request has been placed in our long-term roadmap for future prioritization.

  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    I'm not one to procrastinate, and the timeline suddenly jumping ahead like that suddenly makes me think it's better to be prepared for a plan sooner than later, like, ASAP.

    z48g7weaopj2.png
  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    Hey wait may 21 is my birthday. This is deeply unfair to me in particular.

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    I'm not one to procrastinate, and the timeline suddenly jumping ahead like that suddenly makes me think it's better to be prepared for a plan sooner than later, like, ASAP.

    "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

  • qwer12qwer12 Registered User regular
    To be honest, I would prefer to split up responsibilities as much as possible instead of piling it all on one person, for various reasons:

    a) As was said above, this is the first time the forum has an actual united goal, and I would want as many people involved to increase our sense of belonging since this is a shared space
    b) We are running on unpaid volunteer work and it feels bad to ask one guy to do a large portion of the work
    c) Honestly, I just want to avoid future possible inter-forum political headaches as much as possible, and sharing the work mitigates that I think

    For spool, he seems to be the only person uniquely position to actually handle the legal side of things, so I would prefer someone else do the project management if possible.

    steam_sig.png

    PSN: jrrl_absent
  • LBD_NytetraynLBD_Nytetrayn TorontoRegistered User regular
    SteevL wrote: »
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Dibbit wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Dibbit wrote: »
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    The holiday forum always goes off without a hitch, so there's a precedence that it'll all smooth itself over one way or another.

    I unironically enjoy the holiday forums, but hoooooo buddy, if they went on for literally 2 seconds longer than they do, there would be chaos. I mean, the fireworks usually start kicking off a few days into it, as-is.

    I don't know what the solution is for the cultural clash situation that would actually appease everyone (insofar as a solution like that even exists), but I think jamming everyone together and saying "get along!" is probably not the best way to go about it.

    I don't have that much time to follow most threads, and tend to stick to a few. So I was super suprised at how explosive the Holiday forums were. The new forums should have a "recap" functions, telling me personally why people are angry at each other.

    I still don't know why the cat was banned, I always thought they were a mod, and then suddenly, gone. (edit: in the spirit of keeping this on topic, I don't particullary need to know either)

    How would a "recap" function work, if not relying on genAI (eg, ChatGPT)?

    I doubt the majority of our members would be comfortable with their posts fed into ChatGPT (above and beyond what gets scraped anyway by Google). And even if they were, large language genAI is currently in a loss-leader strategy. It's "free" because investors keep it afloat. Someday in the near future OpenAI et. al. will have to monetize and it'll turn into a monetary cost.

    Yeah, in theory we have the banned and infraction thread for this, but it's an administrative burden that's hard on the mods.
    (I'm basing that last part on the fact that most bans from it are missing, and half of them are a one sentence basically saying "banned for being an asshole" and that's fair enough, I guess.)
    I don't know the right answer, but it's kind of impossible right now to follow these things unless you were a part of it, especially in chat-like threads.
    And that doesn't feel right with a forum?

    That's kinda going to be the nature of a forum this size. It's still big enough that there's no way to easily keep running histories about what's happened where.

    If you go into your own profile there is a 'Moderation' tab that should show every warning / infraction you've received on your account, number of points, mod comments, and a link back to the offending post.

    It's probably moot now and I doubt there were the resources to do so on Vanilla, but it seems like i t would be pretty easy to script sucking out a summary of that and posting that in the appropriate Infraction / Ban thread along with the update. Or at least give the mods a tool to let them easily copy that history.

    I feel like the Moderation tab used to be visible on public profiles to everyone, but maybe I'm misremembering. Don't know if that's something too sensitive to post, but I think something like that would go a long way towards the transparency around bans and infractions some people have asked for.

    Oh yeah... I just checked mine, and I received one warning for a "serious offense," and I'm not even sure what I did.

    Maybe it was a holiday forum infraction? There was one year when a lot of people got dinged with an infraction for "failing to show appropriate amount of holiday cheer."

    Nah, it was this: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/18933097#Comment_18933097

    Apparently, whatever I did was bad enough that they shut the whole thread down immediately, though.
    agoaj wrote: »
    dennis wrote: »
    Have we considered starting a cult? We could get new users and innovate new revenue streams.

    Someone beat you to it decades ago.
    emtjbrbzjplh.png

    Oh wow, that gives me flashbacks to one of my websites before it was even my website...
    It was The Mega Man Network, if you're curious.
    I hang out in a couple of forums that appear to be fairly independent (they're both attached to Transformers news sites, but no higher ownership that I can tell)

    Would any mods be interested in me trying to set up a meeting so you can pick their brains re: the software they're using, pitfalls to avoid, dealing with legal jazz and keeping the lights on etc. etc.?

    I barely know the admin on one site and not at all on the other, so I don't want to give the impression that I have an "in" but I've been posting on both places for longer than even Penny-Arcade, so I might still be able to swing it.

    Iiiiiiiiiiiii... think I have an idea of one of those you're talking about.

    qjWUWdm.gif1edr1cF.gifINPoYqL.png
    Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    Should this thread move over to the Future State subforum? I’m a little concerned things will get missed if the discussion spreads two subforums.

  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    enc0re wrote: »
    Should this thread move over to the Future State subforum? I’m a little concerned things will get missed if the discussion spreads two subforums.

    Kinda feel like maybe this thread should be locked / only used for moderator and admin updates and any general forumer discussion moved to the Future State 'water cooler' discussion?

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    also I guess if we're going to have to rebrand we'd probably want to go with 'Xaquin and Acquaintances Forum'

    catchy and rolls off the tongue

    Too clunky.

    I suggest “The Desktop Hippies”

  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    also I guess if we're going to have to rebrand we'd probably want to go with 'Xaquin and Acquaintances Forum'

    catchy and rolls off the tongue

    Too clunky.

    I suggest “The Desktop Hippies”

    how dare you sir! We now have forum beef!

    specifically beef tips. you bring a side. maybe someone can bring drinks

    we can have a BBQ!

    wait, what were we talking about?

  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    edited October 30
    enc0re wrote: »
    Should this thread move over to the Future State subforum? I’m a little concerned things will get missed if the discussion spreads two subforums.

    agreed, I had no idea we lost 6 months of forum time because I thought this was more of a dead thread what with the new subforum

    Xaquin on
  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    also I guess if we're going to have to rebrand we'd probably want to go with 'Xaquin and Acquaintances Forum'

    catchy and rolls off the tongue

    Too clunky.

    I suggest “The Desktop Hippies”

    how dare you sir! We now have forum beef!

    specifically beef tips. you bring a side. maybe someone can bring drinks

    we can have a BBQ!

    wait, what were we talking about?

    Cookouts, clearly.

  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    Tomanta wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    also I guess if we're going to have to rebrand we'd probably want to go with 'Xaquin and Acquaintances Forum'

    catchy and rolls off the tongue

    Too clunky.

    I suggest “The Desktop Hippies”

    how dare you sir! We now have forum beef!

    specifically beef tips. you bring a side. maybe someone can bring drinks

    we can have a BBQ!

    wait, what were we talking about?

    Cookouts, clearly.

    10c5upxhyjh1.gif

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    In case anyone else like me mainly navigates the forum using their bookmarked threads, the new sub forum for discussing the transition is open. You have to go to the main forum page to see it. Sorry if this seems dumb but i did not realize it was open until about an hour ago...

    sig.gif Gamertag: KL Retribution
    PSN:Furlion
This discussion has been closed.