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Live Free or Die Hard... wrong to be offended?
Glyph
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I'll try to mention as little as possible about the plot so that those who haven't seen it can still discuss.
Just saw this film last night and enjoyed it on so many levels. No scene went wasted and I really liked how they managed to keep the pace going throughout. The action more than once made people in the audience (myself included) literally jump in their seats. But even while all this was going on, I couldn't help feeling more than a little bothered that the McClane character played by Bruce Willis kept referring back to the right-hand woman of the villain (played by Maggie Q) as "that Asian bitch" and "that Asian hooker ninja," or something to that effect. Not just once, but several times. Now I'm trying to keep it all in context; yes, he's supposed to be the politically incorrect "everyman" and he's trying to taunt the villain to get a reaction. But goddamn. If the lines required him saying "black" (or the more parallel "African") or "Latina" in place of Asian, I couldn't imagine them making it into the final cut. I know, I know, it's just a movie and it's meant to be a thrill ride. Edgy dialogue makes for an edgy PG-13 flick. But I have to admit that this kind of ruined it for me.
Is this just oversensitivity creeping in? Have I merely been brainwashed by the so-called "PC culture" into being upset by this sort of thing?
Update: Now doubles as a thread about the film itself, since I noticed we don't have another and it'd be somewhat redundant to have two.
Just saw this film last night and enjoyed it on so many levels. No scene went wasted and I really liked how they managed to keep the pace going throughout. The action more than once made people in the audience (myself included) literally jump in their seats. But even while all this was going on, I couldn't help feeling more than a little bothered that the McClane character played by Bruce Willis kept referring back to the right-hand woman of the villain (played by Maggie Q) as "that Asian bitch" and "that Asian hooker ninja," or something to that effect. Not just once, but several times. Now I'm trying to keep it all in context; yes, he's supposed to be the politically incorrect "everyman" and he's trying to taunt the villain to get a reaction. But goddamn. If the lines required him saying "black" (or the more parallel "African") or "Latina" in place of Asian, I couldn't imagine them making it into the final cut. I know, I know, it's just a movie and it's meant to be a thrill ride. Edgy dialogue makes for an edgy PG-13 flick. But I have to admit that this kind of ruined it for me.
Plus, this wouldn't be the first time Hollywood depicted Asian women as ruthless killing machines that die horribly violent deaths. Just off the top of my head: Rush Hour 2, Romeo Must Die, X2.
Is this just oversensitivity creeping in? Have I merely been brainwashed by the so-called "PC culture" into being upset by this sort of thing?
Update: Now doubles as a thread about the film itself, since I noticed we don't have another and it'd be somewhat redundant to have two.
Glyph on
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yes.
The ad campaign for Captivity made sense considering the film's contents, but that didn't stop Joss Whedon and countless others from protesting it. Why? Because it was fucked up!
And yeah, the only Asian woman who consistently gets respectable roles is Sandra Oh.
You actually believe they would've had McClane say "that black bitch".
...
Yes, and yes. Real people talk like this, movies arn't meant to be sociology classrooms.
edit: Malkor has a very good point. I'm guessing Glyph here hasnt seen it, since his head would probably explode.
hint: "I hate n*****s"
edited out The Word That Shall Not Be Named - ElJeffe
Nope. Enlighten me.
He wouldn't only because there are a lot of Whiny Mcwhinersons out there. Asian was a descriptor, rather than a degratory statement. Maybe stereotypical, because of the Kung-Fu, but seriously if you're a terrorist, the number 1 thing you want from your girlfriend is to be able to kick someone's ass.
Simon called John an Irish flatfoot in the 3rd one. Can we whine about that?
He wears a sign on his chest that says "I Hate N***ERS"
Uncensored, of course.
He wears a sign that Says "I Hate N*****S" in the middle of Harlem (Brooklyn?)
Also, "White Euro-Trash" in the first one.
Edit - BEATD
Edit(2) For Euro Trash.
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Which begs the question of why everything in film is idealized with the notable exception of attitudes towards minorities and women.
I can suspend disbelief when it comes to surfing a fucking plane, but not when it comes to low-brow dialogue? Suddenly I'd be taken out of the picture simply because John McClain is capable of judging Asian women separate from their race, whereas that'd be beyond a "real person".
But we buried it in a box, so its ok....
Which shows how much power these Whiny McWhinerson's have. It's the only banned racial slur on the forum. Completely idiotic.
Nor do they have to be. Real people say a lot of things, not all of it makes it into a Hollywood action blockbuster. In other words, lines like these are usually reserved for dramatic films attempting to focus on how "real people" talk, such as Crash or Magnolia. It seems oddly out of place here. To me anyway. The film certainly could've done without it.
It's an action movie?
If this was a movie on race relations in America I would expect them to use the PC terms, so there ya go.
Not a real person trying to aggravate a terrorist.
I think everyone agrees that (even the mods) but apparently the guys in charge don't like it, or are afraid of consequences if it is used too much.
"Goddamn that goodlooking korean-american woman whos good at martial arts"?
Fair enough. I've only watched the first film, but if the protagonist is regularly known for being overtly racist as part of a character trait, then that changes things somewhat. Not sure it's right, but it puts things more in perspective.
While I agree that it's exceptionally silly, it does have quite a history.
I have a confession to make that will make you think less of me:
No, no, no he does it because if he doesn't the bad-guy (Simon) will blow some stuff up. Even a completely racist guy wouldn't be dumb enough to do that in the middle of Harlem (unless he was from Bellevue or something).
Actually, it's just the opposite. The villain forced him to do it or he'd blow up a school.
McCain was probably the least racist main character in that movie, now that I think of it.
If an Asian lady kicked you over a computer desk what would you call her?
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Strawman. I'm not saying it would have to be the polar opposite.
The black guys I chat with when I'm drunk and at the ghetto fried chicken place call the paki's who run the place N's all the time. I find it hilarious.
So maybe he has to make up for it this time around.
You'd still be pissed; trust me. She MADE you do that. You know how? By kicking your ass around a room quite a few times. Trust me, everytime you thought of her, you'd want to do that to her again.
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This is a pretty lame PC argument that's not even a PC arguement.
Yeah, no. personally I would have just called her a fucking cunt, but that would be for brevity's sake.
what if he had been country specific? would that be okay?
$$$
It was filmed for an R rating, and Bruce was not pleased when he heard about the decision to edit it to get a PG-13 rating.
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The general audience being who? And why is it relevant whether or not they can tell the difference?
Hey that's not fair.
These days they can also be club kids or they can spend a lot of time tricking out Hondas.