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PS3 as HTPC?
Evander
Disappointed FatherRegistered User regular
Disappointed FatherRegistered User regular
So, I never thought I'd be recommending to my family that they buy a PS3, but it is starting to look like it actually makes sense.
My father has been wanting to put something in the family room for a while that would allow him both to access the net, for surfing and for things like NetFlix's download service, and also to stream media directly from his PC.
He has zero interest in games, but because every system he tried to design himself was coming in at more than he wanted to spend, he asked me to both look over his specs and see if I could design something better for cheaper, and also to figure out which home console would best suit his needs.
The Wii was thrown out for lack of ability to really do anything OTHER than access the internet. The 360 would have been my choice for media streaming, since it is designed to be a whole part of the windows media experience, but the lack of internet killed that idea. This left the PS3 as being capable of internet access and streaming media through Orb (both or which the Wii can do) and also of being able to access CDs and DVDs entered into it, as well as media on flash memory cards and USB devices (Wii, not so much) the Bluray aspect is not AT ALL an interest, but somethign that would get used if it was already there.
His price range is (in theory) under 500 bucks, so a new or used 60 gig model is good enough for him. I doubt he's interested in downloading anything from the PSN, but the fact that it's there is good. It's always nice to have options.
So, anything I/he should know? Any reasons that the PS3 wouldn't quite suit his needs? Anything that makes the PS3 even more of a contender that I just wasn't aware about? I admit that I like the prospect of him having a PS3 in the house, since it means that I can play what few PS3 exclusives catch my eye, but I'd rather him get a machine that really does what he it wants it to do.
My father has been wanting to put something in the family room for a while that would allow him both to access the net, for surfing and for things like NetFlix's download service, and also to stream media directly from his PC.
He has zero interest in games, but because every system he tried to design himself was coming in at more than he wanted to spend, he asked me to both look over his specs and see if I could design something better for cheaper, and also to figure out which home console would best suit his needs.
The Wii was thrown out for lack of ability to really do anything OTHER than access the internet. The 360 would have been my choice for media streaming, since it is designed to be a whole part of the windows media experience, but the lack of internet killed that idea. This left the PS3 as being capable of internet access and streaming media through Orb (both or which the Wii can do) and also of being able to access CDs and DVDs entered into it, as well as media on flash memory cards and USB devices (Wii, not so much) the Bluray aspect is not AT ALL an interest, but somethign that would get used if it was already there.
His price range is (in theory) under 500 bucks, so a new or used 60 gig model is good enough for him. I doubt he's interested in downloading anything from the PSN, but the fact that it's there is good. It's always nice to have options.
So, anything I/he should know? Any reasons that the PS3 wouldn't quite suit his needs? Anything that makes the PS3 even more of a contender that I just wasn't aware about? I admit that I like the prospect of him having a PS3 in the house, since it means that I can play what few PS3 exclusives catch my eye, but I'd rather him get a machine that really does what he it wants it to do.
Evander on
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I have 0 experience in streaming things to my console, it just seems.. too complex. I wish Sony would make an easy-to-use program for PS3 users as opposed to us having to find programs that work on the PS3 that aren't that user friendly. I don't like all the converting.. too much work.
Maybe there is a great program out there, and maybe it's easy for some people. I don't have a lot of experience with streaming stuff to the PS3.. I won't lie.
The advantage is that it's a full computer and he can do whatever he wants with it. The disadvantage is that if you're going to be watching a lot of video on it, I would recommend maxing out the RAM, which will make it quite a bit more expensive than a used PS3.
or Brawl. 4854.6102.3895 Name: NU..
The plan there was to use orb
OK, I have a PS3, a 360, and a Wii. As a part of a series of articles that I'm making, I've been extensively testing all three in HTPC capacity, as well as the original Xbox.
btw - for the money, the original xbox + your leet haxor skillz == the shizzle.
With few reservations, I can say that the 360 meets this need much more readily than the PS3.
The PS3 won't stream surround sound from your files on your PC. It won't do it in ANY format that I've tried. Also, he 360 seems to support more formats, if only for the fact that it supports their proprietary WMV format.
The PS3's scalar chip works better on dvds. They are almost exactly the same on media files.
The 360 / Media Center connection is the best out there, and what I recommend, but you can come damn close with the 360 and a regular xp machine. Media Center and the 360 is incredible, thanks to additions like Transcode 360 and "My Movies" - not to mention that Media Center also allows for "MCE Browser", a web browser you can access on the 360.
The 360/Media Center connection can replace your DVR, if you pony up a couple bucks for a TV card. The PS3 can access TV cards through stuff like Nero Media Home, but you need a very powerful pc to pull it off because it tries to translate the picture on the fly. You also don't get ease of use at ALL.
Browsing the web on anything other than the Wii is a disgrace. Just FYI.
My next step is to try PS3+Linux, but everyone tells me it sucks / don't do it / etc.
edit:
essentially, to boil it all down, the biggest concern is the ability to stream stuff both online and over the network, and without having to make large changes to anything else. if he has to change the OS on HIS PC, then he isn't going to go for it.
I'd love to just treccomend the Wii, of course, but I think he'd prefer the download options with the other systems, and also, I don't know where he'd find one, and I'm not about to give him mine.
The reason I find myself leaning towards the PS3, besides the browser, is the fact that it would replace his current upscaling DVD-player (dunno if the 360 upscales) and so, he would be able to feel more like it was a part of the Living room set-up, not just some toy in the middle of his entertainment center. This is, like a said, a man with zero interest in gaming.
This is true, but even more so for the PS3. I'm astounded that they can't get this big selling point even a little bit right. Where I think they screw up is that they route everything through a Sony proxy server which is a huge bottleneck.
The bottom line is that it is so insufferably slow that I get my laptop when I want to browse on the internet.
Plus, you can't cut/paste text, you can only upload picture files (in theory -- I haven't had the patience to try it), and some sites simply do not come up for any reason I can determine. Some kind of error or warning message would be nice.
In short, cross "internet browser" off the list of features for your PS3. It isn't ready yet.
is it able to stream videos from netflix (and possibly access youtube)
that is ALL he really needs the browser for, but it is NECESSARY for that.
OK, the 360 Elite and the new HDMI Premium... both upscale DVDs. I only have a premium (component), and my upscaling comment is based on that.
The PS3 browser is utter crap. It works, but it's not good. You Tube actually runs slightly better on the Wii, and that's saying something given the Wii's power. PS3 browser obeys fewer CSS rules, hence many sites render completely wrong.
The browser isn't for your dad, man. It's totally not.
The 360 browser only works through media center, but MANY programs, like TVersity, will allow you to browse online video and radio to your heart's content. This is what I'd recommend you do, regardless of final choice. Don't use the damn browser to get to media. Use a uPNP server program, like Nero, TVersity, whatever.
***ALSO, keep in mind that this is not likely to be your dad's LAST PC EVER EVER. He, like the rest of us, will eventually move to Vista, and at that point, MS just includes Media Center whether or not you really want it! (which is good, not bad- it's in Home Premium and above, basically)
None will do NetFlix that I'm aware of. I'll check, but I don't think any of them will because it requires a plug in.
You Tube is spotty across all browsers. Seems to run a lot slower than PC.
Also, 360 has high def and regular def movie rentals and TV show buys. So, that's damn cool - I use that all the time.
On the other hand, PS3 has blu ray out the boxxx. sexy.
But given the hd-dvd player is basically free right now (5 free movies = $150 value, cost of player $179).... it's a toss up.
Also, Tversity > Orb
Oh, I know he'll upgrade eventually.
But he's looking to have the functionality that he wants right now.
Basically, the only issue he's still running into is how to get anything other than a regular HTPC to run the Netflix stuff.
Is there any other way at all to do it? It seems strange to me that it wouyld require windows in the way that it does, because that prevents people from being able to use it on a Mac or on, say, the PS3, and both Sony, and to some extent, Apple, hold a decent enough position in the movie industry that I would really be suprised if they had absolutely no interoperability.
360 upscales over VGA. If you have an HDMI enabled tv, you probably have a VGA port as well.
2 HDMIs, 2 Components, 4-5 other connections. No VGA.
But I got a great deal on the machine at the time. I figured if I really was desperate, I could get DVI to HDMI converters, and run Power Strip or some such timing software. Or I could go VGA-Component. Either way.
Right now, what I'm wondering is if there is any way to run some sort of virtual desktop thing off of, really, ANY of the three consoles (although Wii really is pretty much out of the running at this point) and to use THAT to play netflix stuff, via the windows PC in thye other room. Is this possible, and if so on which/how easily?
My PS3 will find my media center PC and let me stream off of it, but it's not as nice or intuitive as the 360 media center so I don't use it. Frankly, the PS3 sits there and looks pretty until some good games come out. As much as I hate to say it, the 360 is probobly the better choice, and he can DL and watch HD movies instead of rocking netflix downloads.
and when I say doubt, I mean I sure as hell know he wouldn't.
He is actually getting really interested in the PS3, as far as the device coming out that lets it be used as a DVR, and the fact that he could transfer files off it to a PSP (he was planning on getting the new Archos when it comes out, but demanded today to try out my PSP, to see if it made more sense, were he to go with a PS3.)
Really, what I'm hoping for right now is some kind of virtual desktop thing for one of the consoles. That would really be the last bit of the solution needed.
The only issue is you might have to worry more about the noise it makes, and it does take a bit of work to set up.
Food for thought.
opportunity costs/price of inconvenience
He works full time. Personally I am a full time student, with 2.5 other jobs. Neither of us have enough skill in building a system to guarantee that we won't totally screw it up, anyway.
It just comes down to the fact that for the cost + risk of building a HTPC, it makes more sense for him to get a console, if he can get it to do what he wants, and honestly, Netflix is the ONLY thing holding that back right now, it seems.
Lave (back before he had a II suffix) did send me a PM explaining it all, but I seem to have lost it now...
There is no virtual-whatsit to let you play media off your pc that hasn't been mentioned here, at least not with enough speed to play the netflix stuff remotely.
You're looking for a Media Center PC and maybe an Extender, whether you realize it or not. For this, and given your PC skill level and time, there are exactly 3 ways you can go here:
1. Buy a Windows Home Premium box somewhere, and use the Vista Media Center, directly attached to your TV, typically through VGA or HDMI (with newer cards). This will cost about the same as a PS3. This requires no time, nor much skill. Later, you could even put a blu ray or hd dvd drive in the sucker. THIS IS THE ONLY way you'll get Netflix.
2. Buy a 360, and use your existing PC to stream media to it. Later, get Vista, and go full fledged Media Center. This will give you 90% of the functionality. It may also be easier to set up - surround sound will be easier, for instance. It also looks nicer under the TV.
3. Buy a PS3, and hope for the best, even though several posts here have indicated the media playback isn't as good.
Now, a couple of things about that PS3:
1. The tv tuner thing is not coming stateside for a very long time, if ever. Europe has unified TV standards, making release there a bit easier. Here, we have over the air, cable, satellite... all dicking things up in different ways. If you live in NA, forget the tv tuner. put it out of your mind.
2. Blu Ray is in fact, fairly cool. not $500 cool, IMHO. 360 also does high def movies via Internet rental and add-on - in this case, you'll really need to look at the studios, and decide what movies you want. Basically - beware the format wars.
3. ps3 does a very good job with dvds.
4. the interface to stream stuff to the ps3 sucks ass.
5. the web browser sucks ass.
Dude, it's quite likely that you can hook his current PC to your TV and be done with it.
PS3 streams via UPnP, the same protocol 360 uses. Which means the same programs that stream to 360 stream to PS3 (except for Windows Media Center which uses something else) I have used Windows Media Player to stream to both my PS3 and 360. You can even use 360s media connect connect. Anyone claiming there isn't an easy program to use is misleading you horribly.
PS3s streaming functionality works better than 360s. On 360 you have to pair your system to one PC at a time, if you want to switch PCs you must unpair the first one. PS3 will list all UPnP servers it can find.
360 will only stream files. PS3 will actually let you copy files off the network. (Much like how 360 wont let you copy files off of CD/USB/etc, but PS3 will) They show up in the XMB as devices just like memory sticks and USB devices. I do not recommend Orb. I recommend TVersity, as it will convert all media formats your PC can play to work on PS3.
I also use PS3s web browser and it's no where near as bad as Wii's, or as bad as others have indicated.
Especially if you're using an HDTV. The higher resolutions and text scaling is a God-send. And since you said you have an upscaling DVD player, that means you have an HDTV. Shame on anyone recommending Wiis 480p webbrowser. Trying to make him go blind?
Personally I find the XMB a lot better than the blade system in usability. When you want to play a file on PS3, you hit X, it plays. You want to delete the file, you hit triangle, go to delete, hit X, it deletes. On 360, you have to hit A, then you're presented with another menu with play as an option. It should play when you hit A. Options like delete should be in a context menu. Its only one extra step, but it's an annoying one. When you're playing a file, and you hit start on PS3, the movie pauses. When you hit triangle, a menu pops up giving you more options. On 360, every button calls up the onscreen menu. There are no shortcuts like pause. Another minor annoyance, but one that means PS3 doesnt really need a remote, where 360 does. Plus PS3s controllers come with the battery built in and use standard usb cables to charge. When I bought my 360 it neither came with a battery or the proprietary charge cable.
Warnings:
DVD looks like crap on 360. This is a well known issue.
DVD is only upscaled on 360 via VGA not component, and on PS3 via HDCP enabled DVI and HDMI not component.
360s fan is much louder than PS3s, I'm surprised no one told you how quietly PS3 runs
360 lets you use universal remotes, PS3 forces you to get the bluetooth remote or an infrared adapter
However I do agree with one comment here, you can't beat a modded XBOX1 with XBOX Media Center. It defeats both the 360 and PS3 and leaves them for dead. It supports more codecs, more network protocols, skins, but older units wont play CDrs. Though if you install Linux on a PS3 it comes pretty damned close, and will go far beyond once the port of XBMC they are working on gets done.
I have the three next gen systems. I most recently got the PS3. I've been disappointed in it, relative to 360, for streaming media playback. I actually like the PS3 a lot though, for something that people aren't mentioning - the games. Yes, I spent a bunch of money on PS3 for games that supposedly don't exist. THAT'S the crap - that the PS3 isn't worth buying yet - it TOTALLY IS. For games!
People in this thread are right - using a PC (or a Mac) is probably his only option, given his Netflix requirement. That, and NO next gen system is doing everything, so it's like... get all three, and get 90%, or throw a PC on, and get everything.
I had to re-read the thread to see which person was saying this... and you know what? No one said it was hard to stream media to either box. So, yeah. ANGER. Or something.
What was said, by multiple people, is that Media Center on 360 kicks ass. Its interface kicks ass. Its streaming capabilities kick ass. It's abilty to act as a DVR kicks ass. etc As an upgrade path, it shouldn't be looked over.
No surround sound, so it doesn't work better. Period. I have both under my TV. Take a guess which one I'm using - the one that copies files, or the one that plays media correctly? By the way, why would anyone need to copy the files over? I don't get that. Or for that matter, who streams from multiple uPNP servers?
Browser: I think, for his dad, a person that works full time etc etc... The Wii's browser is better. It's easier to use, zooms better, it's faster, it's easier to read, and it supports CSS better (more sites work). But whatever, shame on us. Simple fact is, again... the browsers pretty much suck on these systems relative to PC. Resolution is NOT an issue though - web sites are either designed with 1024x768 in mind, or they scale to width. That's a fact. The only thing higher res does is decrease the size of the font, making good zoom MORE important.
Let's say I agree with your other points about the XMB (it's subjective - I think both interfaces suck). I guess I don't see how a $15 remote is a deal breaker.
The PS3 isn't so quiet as to be silent. In both cases, it's not an issue for me, I have this thing called a stereo. BTW, the Wii might be the quiet-est.
Anyway, sorry for the minor thread jacking here.
Maybe the PS3 will get better with updates. Maybe Linux on PS3 rocks - I'm told it doesn't rock, but I haven't run PS3 Linux myself, so I couldn't comment.
---
Dude wants a PS3, but comments like he needs a PC attached to the TV instead. *shrug* Hey, if you're looking for an excuse to get the PS3, I don't think you need one.
You need a silly workaround that limits your abilities to use a universal remote on a PS3
Forgot about that one.
I disagree 100% mainly because I use my PS3 at the moment for streaming
I can play any format that I use on my PC with no problems as well as movies on the PC i can put on my PS3 hard drive and watch them there, I would recommend a PS3 for streaming compared to the 360 anyday of the week.
I think the 360 streaming is crap and unless you have a media center pc it's not even worth looking at and even than it's pretty meh that it won't support really any file types other than wmv.
I know the xbox has one or two web browsers available for it. If they are compatible with netflix or not is something I'm unsure of though. I could have a look for you when I get home tonight.
LewieP, I'll drop you a pm about the xbox if you want some help.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
I really need to try this. I heard you can't do soft mod any more. Is that true? I have Mech Assault and I have Xbox 1.0, but it's up to date from Live. Is that bad?
Also, if you're COMFY with soldering then it's very very easy on a V1.0 xbox to do a hardware mod without a chip (which is even better, you can pop in a harddrive with ease). You just bridge a few points on the back and then flash the original bios with a modchip one.
However with all of the above you lose access to Xbox Live (there are ways around it but they're not really worth it).
Obviously describing how to go ahead and do the mod is frowned upon on these boards, but if you wanted some help, I am but a pm away.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
I think there's some misconceptions here. The 360's interface to stream also sucks ass. Just to be clear. The menus need to be much faster, like XMB. It needs to support surround sound on H.264. It needs to support MPEG2 natively. But you're wrong, the 360 supports many major formats out of the box, like H.264, wmv, MP3, AAC, and with media center, it supports at least 1 more (MPEG2).
The PS3 streaming feature sucks ass relative to the 360, because you can't play your music in games, and because something on the PS3 itself stops media from being in surround sound. Skipping around in media is too easily engaged via the triggers on the controller, and I often find myself skipping around simply because I put the controller down. The XMB is odd to navigate and not easily searched - but this also applies to the 360.
I like the blades "system" on 360 better, but that's opinion.
Again, I have to ask why copy movies over to your hard drive? I'm asking because I want to know. Are you guys like, packing up your systems and hauling them around to other locations or something? I don't get it. It sounds really disorganized and time consuming. It's not that I think the feature is teh ghey, it's that I don't think I'd use it.
With a proper uPNP server, you can play anything on any system. That's the magic of transcoding. But you CAN'T play everything on a PS3 OR a 360 natively like you can on a PC. DivX and Xvid don't play, some AVIs play for me, some don't, PS3 doesn't support WMV, etc. The 360 doesn't like ATRAC, and you need transcoding for MPEG2, I think (unless you're in Media Center).
Do either devices natively play FLAC or OGG? Just curious, I haven't tested either.
Fortunately, with some simple setup like TVersity (or Nero), you don't have to worry about ANY of the formats. It. Just. Works.
FOR THE RECORD, if anyone cares - my ideal interface for movies (or music) would either be "My Movies" on Media Center, or some Apple-thing like where you flip through your album covers. I want the ability to sort by actor, or whatever. I want covers. I want simple & graphical - neither system does this right now out of the box.
My Movies:
Cover Flow:
My next project will be original Xbox. I've done a ton of reading and pouring over screenshots, but I haven't taken the plunge. I know it's supposed to be the bomb.
Original Xbox:
Also, this post was far too long.
Words.
Hmm since you seem to have quite a plethora of knowledge regarding the 360's capabilities to stream from a PC, I was wondering if you could give me the idiots guide to doing said task.
A little info about my setup first... I use a Wireless Router (for my Wii), however, my 360 and PC (Windows XP) are connected via Hardline to the router.
My main questions are should I download a new program to better stream/use the connection between my 360/PC, and is it possible to use my 360 essentially as a video player for my computer (I have a big screen TV so this would be a plus for watching anime, movies, TV shows, etc.) and is this option confined by my HD space (I like you have a premium 360) or can I stream endlessly?
Thanks for the input Fatty.
Your 360's hard drive space is not affected by streaming. Yes, you can use the 360 as your video player, depending on your video files' format AND/OR the speed of your computer.
Do you have XP Media Center Edition, XP Pro, or XP Home?
How fast is your PC?
Which specific videos do you want to watch on your 360? Your DVDs, or stuff you downloaded? Or do you want to watch stuff off the Internet? All three?
Instructions vary slightly, based on what you have. Basically, it shouldn't be difficult, because you already are wired instead of wireless. Getting the media files on your computer is probably the hardest part.
If you install TVersity, and follow the online guides to get started, you'll have several functions ready to go. TVersity is free.
TVersity is also very dependent on the speed of your PC, so I may have other suggestions.
Its an Athlon XP 2200+ I believe, with a 6800 GT, and a gig or so of ram (i think one). I run windows XP Pro and was hoping to use it for all three (dvds, downloaded stuff, intertron). As it is a gaming rig, albeit from 2 years ago, I was thinking I would have the power, it was just a matter of actually setting it all up.
Edit: Also for streaming audio is their a specific program you like to use as well? I am completely in the dark when it comes to streaming things
Your computer is "slow" - transcoding (transforming video files on the fly) is one of the the most intense tasks you can ask your computer to do, and therefore it may be somewhat painful for you. I recommend the following:
Your best bet with DVDs is to rip them and convert them to either H.264 (great picture) or WMV (surround sound). Or, at minimum, rip to MPEG-2, and see notes about TVersity below. This is slightly more detailed than a forum thread here will allow (given the stance of the forum admins). I have prepared a guide for this that I don't dare post here.
The way to get those converted files to your 360 will be the Zune software or TVersity. If you don't mind spending just a bit of money, I also recommend Nero Media Home, because it's easier to set up.
Streaming pre-converted files doesn't stress your computer.
To get Internet Radio and Video, given your OS, you'll want to use TVersity or Nero Media Home.
If you want to do stuff like play XVid or DivX or MPEG2, TVersity will allow you to take ANY video file, in ANY format, and stream the sucker to your 360 - on the fly. But on your computer, you'll notice the following:
1. When you use TVersity actively, your computer will be freaking useless. 100% CPU. For sure.
2. You'll need to pause video playback right away, and unpause 10 minutes later to watch your video - since your CPU can't do real time encoding (need faster CPU for that), you need to give it a few minutes to "spool up" some content.
3. The first time you start a video, it'll take about 10-25 seconds for your 360 to get the first few frames of video from TVersity.
The above things (waiting, etc) DON'T happen if you've pre-converted your files. Pre-converting to WMV on your speed of computer takes about 2X real time, so a 2 hour movie would take 4 hours to encode. H.264 takes longer, but provides a more compatible file (plays on more devices), and has a better picture.
If all you want is audio, it couldn't be easier. Get Windows Media Player 11, go to media sharing in the options menu, and turn it on. All your MP3s will be shared. Same thing with the Zune software - almost literally (I think the menus are almost the same, even).
You probably have enough power in your system to really rock the house with something like TVersity. Video playback will likely be good for you.
TVersity comes with the ability to stream many content types directly from the Internet.
Nero MediaHome, too.