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IT'S THE END OF RADIO (a discussion of the genius and recording in general)
Pheezer
Registered User, ClubPA regular
Registered User, ClubPA regular
Okay, so Shellac has an album that's been out long enough that anyone who's a fan should have heard by now. If you haven't, it's called Excellent Italian Greyhound and it's pretty damned good. I personally think the first track, The End of Radio, is by far the best on it and that truthfully the album is still inferior to 1000 Hurts in a lot of places, but it's really good overall and you should all make a point of listening to it.
For the uneducated, Steve Albini is the lead singer/lead guitar player for the group and he's a genius. Like, Brian Eno genius. He started Big Black in the early 80s and started recording music that sounds a lot like music Ministry would record a few years later when they were recording "pioneering" music in the brave new genre of industrial music. Check out the "Lungs" EP from 1982 if you have any doubts.
He would eventually learn how to record albums like no one's business and put together some of the most compelling, live sounding albums you'll ever hear. I like his last two Shellac albums as examples of this, 1000 Hurts and Excellent Italian Greyhound. Put on a good pair of headphones or use a good receiver and some decent speakers. You can't beat the way those songs sound. The drums hit you straight in the gut, the vocals are layered in between the drums, stereo panning is used with brilliant precision, it's just how it's supposed to sound. You can hear the pick hitting the strings in the final recording.
And he does it by recording albums correctly. There is no quantizing. There is no pitch correction. There are just a bunch of guys playing instruments and playing them well.
Maybe a better example is a somewhat more popular album than his Shellac or Big Black work. How about Nirvana's In Utero? You hear that one? You know, the best sounding album they managed to put together?
The real kicker there is that it's not even purely Albini's work. After the recording was completed the masters were sent off for re-mastering by a label hired producer and if you've ever heard the original product, you know it's just not the same thing.
Thanks to a few fortunate mistakes, copies of those unreleased masters did make it into the wild. One was at a vinyl pressing factory in Germany, where the wrong master was received, and after a few days of releasing "bad" copies into the retail chain, the real master was silently swapped in.
The most distinctive difference is that the solo on the Albini cut has this really, horribly noisy tremolo effect on the guitar solo on Heart Shaped Box. It has this real charm to it though that you can't really beat.
What I'm saying is, the band sounded like they had a pair, unlike on the Butch Vig produced Nevermind. The thing is, you just can't make rock and roll with a computer. There's nothing rock and roll about a group of assholes who can't play in time, can't sing on key, and use Pro Tools to bring it into line.
The Albini attitude towards recording, doing it simple and doing it right and just capturing the band as they sound, is something that's common to stoner rock. I'm going to do my best not to rant off on that tangent, but you've got to respect bands who joined a scene whose entire basis is on the idea of being able to play your music. A lot of the older stoner rock bands will record "live", with the entire band performing at once for the record. It's something that a lot of bands just can't do any more because they're not actually good enough to get a clean cut of a song that way.
So let's talk about music akin to bands like Shellac. Guys like The Jesus Lizard, maybe. Or we could talk about what ridiculous bullshit it is that passes for musicianship these days. Or perhaps debate the role of technology in the production of music. Or what is and isn't rock and roll (hint: it's more than a sound).
Or we could just argue back and forth about whether Albini ripped off Ministry or vice versa.
For the uneducated, Steve Albini is the lead singer/lead guitar player for the group and he's a genius. Like, Brian Eno genius. He started Big Black in the early 80s and started recording music that sounds a lot like music Ministry would record a few years later when they were recording "pioneering" music in the brave new genre of industrial music. Check out the "Lungs" EP from 1982 if you have any doubts.
He would eventually learn how to record albums like no one's business and put together some of the most compelling, live sounding albums you'll ever hear. I like his last two Shellac albums as examples of this, 1000 Hurts and Excellent Italian Greyhound. Put on a good pair of headphones or use a good receiver and some decent speakers. You can't beat the way those songs sound. The drums hit you straight in the gut, the vocals are layered in between the drums, stereo panning is used with brilliant precision, it's just how it's supposed to sound. You can hear the pick hitting the strings in the final recording.
And he does it by recording albums correctly. There is no quantizing. There is no pitch correction. There are just a bunch of guys playing instruments and playing them well.
Maybe a better example is a somewhat more popular album than his Shellac or Big Black work. How about Nirvana's In Utero? You hear that one? You know, the best sounding album they managed to put together?
The real kicker there is that it's not even purely Albini's work. After the recording was completed the masters were sent off for re-mastering by a label hired producer and if you've ever heard the original product, you know it's just not the same thing.
Thanks to a few fortunate mistakes, copies of those unreleased masters did make it into the wild. One was at a vinyl pressing factory in Germany, where the wrong master was received, and after a few days of releasing "bad" copies into the retail chain, the real master was silently swapped in.
The most distinctive difference is that the solo on the Albini cut has this really, horribly noisy tremolo effect on the guitar solo on Heart Shaped Box. It has this real charm to it though that you can't really beat.
What I'm saying is, the band sounded like they had a pair, unlike on the Butch Vig produced Nevermind. The thing is, you just can't make rock and roll with a computer. There's nothing rock and roll about a group of assholes who can't play in time, can't sing on key, and use Pro Tools to bring it into line.
The Albini attitude towards recording, doing it simple and doing it right and just capturing the band as they sound, is something that's common to stoner rock. I'm going to do my best not to rant off on that tangent, but you've got to respect bands who joined a scene whose entire basis is on the idea of being able to play your music. A lot of the older stoner rock bands will record "live", with the entire band performing at once for the record. It's something that a lot of bands just can't do any more because they're not actually good enough to get a clean cut of a song that way.
So let's talk about music akin to bands like Shellac. Guys like The Jesus Lizard, maybe. Or we could talk about what ridiculous bullshit it is that passes for musicianship these days. Or perhaps debate the role of technology in the production of music. Or what is and isn't rock and roll (hint: it's more than a sound).
Or we could just argue back and forth about whether Albini ripped off Ministry or vice versa.
IT'S GOT ME REACHING IN MY POCKET IT'S GOT ME FORKING OVER CASH
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
Pheezer on
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I think they by definition get marginalized further and further because it's more expensive for a studio to take 20 recordings of every song than it is to record once and just edit it in post. So in that respect it doesn't matter what they want to do, they get pushed in a certain direction or they fade away.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
I don't really know much about music, but I hear what you're saying. I think what the world needs is a new form of musical virtuosity. There is something awesome about listening to a talented guitarist play an intimidating solo. It's awesome in the same way that listening to Paginini or Rachmaninov is awesome—difficult, virtuoso music seems to engender a unique form of appreciation. But the problem is, I think, everyone is already sick of electric guitar virtuosity, just like everyone became sick of piano and violin virtuosity. People will always move on to newer forms of music, and right now that seems to be heavily layered and produced electronic music.
Someone needs to invent a new instrument for people to be awesome at. Like a more advanced version of the theremin. At the rate technology is increasing, you'd think people would have invented more awesome instruments in the past century besides the electric guitar.
It's not up to the band to make the recording work, that's the job of an audio engineer. If the band is brilliant, then it's not difficult for anyone with even marginal experience and a basic understanding of his studio's gear and some applied physics to take a great recording of them.
The real problem is that it's now cheaper and easier to hire people who don't have any of that pesky artistic integrity, record them blundering through each song once, one guy at a time, and then fix the pitch and timing on a computer and while you're there just delete any incorrect notes. If the band bitches or tries to take back control, fire them and hire someone new to take their place. It's easy and extraordinarily profitable because the record companies are right: pretty much no one cares.
Actually, pretty much no one realizes how little performance or skill goes into music any more, and of those who do find out, most probably don't care. Luckily very few ever do learn enough about playing or recording music to discover the awful truth about most mainstream studio albums.
And just so we're all on the same page about the guy who inspired this thread, here's something Steve Albini wrote called The Problem With Music: http://negativland.com/albini.html
And here's a short-ish write up of a speaking engagement he did: http://inmyroom.org/writing/albini.html
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
I don't see what all the fuss is about. If the end result is the same, why does the production method matter?
You're talking about mainstream radio music, which most people who care about art and music wouldn't care about anyway. It is kinda disgusting how easily music can be shat out, but it's music that I wouldn't want to hear in the first place.
the end game isn't the same. that's the issue.
Well I'm really talking about a process that afflicts any group of artists who try to perform music for a living. Because of the way the major labels act, anyone with an interest in real art is hopelessly marginalized.
It's like this: Their recordings will never be as easy to listen to as the guys with major label backing. The production quality will always suffer by definition of what's available at the price point that an independent band or label can afford. Unless you're someone like Steve Albini whose sheer technical talent is enough to put you head and shoulders above just about anyone.
But I digress. Any band seeking a living off of their music that refuses to bow to major label pressures can only hope to make a good living performing in a very limited array of genres whose appeal focuses on grittier production or whose focus leaves production issues to be irrelevant (think spinning).
The end result is an overall reduction in creative exploration of entire genres of music. This is a real problem that you should care about if you care about music period. Even if it doesn't affect the genres you're interested in. Because, and you may debate this but you'll be wrong, the genre you don't care about right now might be missing some vital exploration that might be the catalyst for really compelling music that you would care about, and we'll never know.
"But it's just pop" doesn't really fly when you consider that Elvis Costello, Gary Numan, Devo, The Human League, REM, and The Beatles were all pop acts in their day. Some of those guys are still around but you know what I mean, I'm talking about the heights of their respective careers.
Dishonest production, marketing and business practices hurt the industry overall.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
What? First you were talking about musicians getting worse, now you've completely shifted focus.
It's easier than ever right now to make something sound good for cheap. All it takes is a little research, self teaching (or you could go to school for it) and practice and you can learn how to mix pretty well. ProTools is cheap, and the most money you'd be spending is on outboard gear and mics.
Home recording is becoming very viable because you can make you recordings sound good for cheap. As much as you seem to dislike ProTools, it's very helpful for cheap recordings. Tape is time consuming and expensive.
I was reading about this the other day funnily enough. It was the band themselves who were apparntly not entirly happy with Albeni mixes, Kurt thought the vocals were two low and Novaselic cited that exact guitar sound as one of the reasons they were happy to have the album remastered, describing it as "Like the sound of an abortion hitting the floor"
Ex. Mclusky - Without MSG I Am Nothing
It's only 128kbps though, sorry.