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Don't know how to help newly..."sexually free" friend...advice?
Dulcius_ex_asperis
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Registered User regular
Sorry, this is long. I have this friend. I'll call her Jenny.
A year ago she was very reserved and had never dated anyone, kissed anyone...nothing relationship-wise. I think this was largely because she is an only child/is one of those really opinionated people who can sometimes be abrasive, but she's pretty cool, usually. She just never believed it was ok to be friends with guys...or never tried, for some reason.
Last semester at uni she started drinking quite a bit.(As some background, she goes to a private school in CA (where we're both from) and I am in Texas, so the only contact I have w/her is internet/phone. She's a 4th year, so am i, so this isn't like, freshman year wildness shit) I was a bit worried about the drinking, because her family has a history of addiction and she's always claimed she doesn't want to be involved in all that mess.
So Jenny decided to study abroad last summer in South America. She went and basically went nuts, kissed tons of guys (which really isn't that big a deal) and was emailing me about it. Also, started having this completely non-commital relationship with a guy who's known for being really really promiscuous. But they didn't have sex.
So Jenny comes back to the US in July with a "What happens in South America STAYS in South America" attitude. Whatever. We talk more, and she tells me she's starting to date this guy back in our hometown (T). Cool, I think. She's getting back into the groove and is more comfortable with the menfolk. A+ for her.
Well, a couple of weeks later she calls me and tells me she's had sex with T. This is a big deal to me, since we're both fairly conservative about sex and things, and he was her first...after all, they weren't even really dating. Which isn't a big deal to everyone, I know, but for this girl who'd never kissed anyone before May and is having sex in August, that's quite the progression.
I tell her to be careful, blah blah blah. She agrees.
Next week she calls and says she's had sex with the guy she studied abroad with. No protection. (Gross, I think...he's been with lots of girls). She goes and gets Plan B and an IUD.
Next thing I know we're both back at school, and our other close friend, S, calls me. She tells me Jenny is going to raves and taking drugs and shit. I check with Jenny. Check check. All true.
The last few weeks have consisted of her telling me she's dating a 17-year-old, letting me know about her new "rave name", telling me how awesome ecstasy is, and basically just getting more and more crazy.
Just now, she told me she met a guy this weekend and slept with him. Did it raw again. What the hell? So I ask her what her qualifications are...to sleep with a guy. Because it doesn't seem she's being too picky. She tells me all the guy has to do is be obsessed with her.
Being her friend, I don't want her to become known as a slut (but 3 guys in <2 months? that's like, Sex and the City status). I'm also worried about her psychologically. She won't admit that she's endangering herself (through drugs, driving drunk, riding with people who are drunk, and sleeping with random men w/o protection), and refuses the idea that she has any regrets.
Basically, this is the fastest and most complete personality 180 I've ever seen in my life. Can I do anything to help her? Does anyone have any advice?
tl;dr My friend used to be really conservative and in <6 months she has begun to drink lots, take drugs, and have sex with random guys. What advice or support can I give her, and how can I encourage her to stop endangering herself?
A year ago she was very reserved and had never dated anyone, kissed anyone...nothing relationship-wise. I think this was largely because she is an only child/is one of those really opinionated people who can sometimes be abrasive, but she's pretty cool, usually. She just never believed it was ok to be friends with guys...or never tried, for some reason.
Last semester at uni she started drinking quite a bit.(As some background, she goes to a private school in CA (where we're both from) and I am in Texas, so the only contact I have w/her is internet/phone. She's a 4th year, so am i, so this isn't like, freshman year wildness shit) I was a bit worried about the drinking, because her family has a history of addiction and she's always claimed she doesn't want to be involved in all that mess.
So Jenny decided to study abroad last summer in South America. She went and basically went nuts, kissed tons of guys (which really isn't that big a deal) and was emailing me about it. Also, started having this completely non-commital relationship with a guy who's known for being really really promiscuous. But they didn't have sex.
So Jenny comes back to the US in July with a "What happens in South America STAYS in South America" attitude. Whatever. We talk more, and she tells me she's starting to date this guy back in our hometown (T). Cool, I think. She's getting back into the groove and is more comfortable with the menfolk. A+ for her.
Well, a couple of weeks later she calls me and tells me she's had sex with T. This is a big deal to me, since we're both fairly conservative about sex and things, and he was her first...after all, they weren't even really dating. Which isn't a big deal to everyone, I know, but for this girl who'd never kissed anyone before May and is having sex in August, that's quite the progression.
I tell her to be careful, blah blah blah. She agrees.
Next week she calls and says she's had sex with the guy she studied abroad with. No protection. (Gross, I think...he's been with lots of girls). She goes and gets Plan B and an IUD.
Next thing I know we're both back at school, and our other close friend, S, calls me. She tells me Jenny is going to raves and taking drugs and shit. I check with Jenny. Check check. All true.
The last few weeks have consisted of her telling me she's dating a 17-year-old, letting me know about her new "rave name", telling me how awesome ecstasy is, and basically just getting more and more crazy.
Just now, she told me she met a guy this weekend and slept with him. Did it raw again. What the hell? So I ask her what her qualifications are...to sleep with a guy. Because it doesn't seem she's being too picky. She tells me all the guy has to do is be obsessed with her.
Being her friend, I don't want her to become known as a slut (but 3 guys in <2 months? that's like, Sex and the City status). I'm also worried about her psychologically. She won't admit that she's endangering herself (through drugs, driving drunk, riding with people who are drunk, and sleeping with random men w/o protection), and refuses the idea that she has any regrets.
Basically, this is the fastest and most complete personality 180 I've ever seen in my life. Can I do anything to help her? Does anyone have any advice?
tl;dr My friend used to be really conservative and in <6 months she has begun to drink lots, take drugs, and have sex with random guys. What advice or support can I give her, and how can I encourage her to stop endangering herself?
Dulcius_ex_asperis on
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I'd bitch her out about the ecstacy. That really does damage your brain a fair deal with each use. Same with the unprotected sex. Sex in itself wtih that kinda frequency isn't THAT bad. But unprotected with people she doesnt know is pretty retarded. At least get her on the pill... Maybe remind her that most of the US has herpes and a good portion has AIDS and doesnt even know it.
A long handwritten letter maybe?
Explain she can be wild without being a complete and utter idiot...
Intervention? (lol)
And yeah, I've been telling her it's really dumb to have sex sans protection, but she's choosing to ignore me. And I don't think she's gonna stop doing ecstasy anytime soon.
The thing that gets me is, she told me she's spent all of her life living like other people wanted her to, and now she's "free" and enjoying herself.
She's thinking about getting a tongue ring because someone told her "you look like a girl who'd have a tongue ring"
I pointed out to her that that was NOT being herself, and she's still trying to please someone else...she basically just seems to ignore my advice. But we're best friends, and have been since...too long ago to remember. So i know she hears my concerns, I just don't know how to voice them so it's not a lecture/she'll take it in and consider it.
That said, as hard as it is to stand by and do, well, nothing much, its pretty much what you're going to have to do. You've told her your concerns, now all you can do is hope she pulls through.
I'm not conservative at all, except about things like sex, but that's just because I'm old-fashioned/waiting until marriage. Not because anyone beat it into me. Or told me it was bad.
Nothing was forced on her. All the conservative-ness was basically of her own choice. We grew up going to church together, but her mom stopped going a long time ago. No one in her family was forcing her to be conservative. She really did choose that for herself. She went into college thinking being republican was the greatest thing ever (I thought that was lame...I tend to be pretty liberal about most things). But I don't know what's happened, or what changed her mind...it doesn't seem that there was any one event. So the whole "well, that's what conservatism DOES" thing doesn't really apply here. But yeah, I guess all I can do is wait it out and tell her to be careful?
Pretty much, yeah. I'd tell her.."seeing you doing all these things that I know are bad for you is hurting me a lot, because you're my friend. Please remember that, you're not just affecting yourself."
and then leave it at that. This way it doesn't come across as a lecture, and you're not telling her to stop doing it, but it appeals to her conscience (which I assume she still has), saying that what she's doing is hurting you because you recognise that its bad for her.
And lets face it, thats not a lie. If you're here, asking us for help, its hurting you.
This is kind of the product of abstinence only education. However, you can't make her straighten up and fly right. I think everyone knows someone who used to be decent and went off the deep end and fucked the rest of their life up. Sit her down, talk to her, explain your view clearly and without ambiguity.
The rest of the deal is hers. It is her life, and she can be an idiot if she wants to. That doesn't mean you have to accept responsibility for her stupidity or try and fix her.
sorry to hear your friend has gone nuts and all. sounds like stress or something has gotten to her.
if all this is in a span of 3 months, it sounds like she's lost control of herself. bareback with people she doesnt even know? damn shes gonna end up with something eventually at this rate.
theres really too many variables to say any life changing advice at this point. could be school stress, could be she snapped, something mustve happened in south america...too many variables.
from my standpoint (which is really shitty at this point) you really cant do anything till she wants to change for herself. sadly this only happens when people hit rock bottom. all you can do is try to keep her safe, if she likes E, shes gonna LOVE coke. too bad shes hitting the rave scene now, its become more common that E gets laced with tonnes of other stuff
i hope things go better for you than they have for me
I told her a few minutes ago that she should go get screened for STDs and she told me she's waiting 6 months, "because that's how long it takes to show up in your blood". I don't know if that's true, but...whatever. She seems to just not care about herself anymore.
This whole thing just makes me sad.
I have to say, this is pretty standard for anyone who's spent a significant part of their formative years repressed, and it doesn't matter if the repression was external or self-inflicted. She'll very likely settle down in a few months or a couple of years, and the only question is whether she'll get through it relatively unscathed. I'd say she's been quite lucky so far.
Basically, if you want to help her you need to stick to only criticising things that are actually problems, otherwise she's just going to think of you as the stick-in-the-mud friend who wants to hold her back. Going to a lot of parties isn't problematic. Getting laid a lot isn't problematic. Don't freak out about those things, because it'll reduce the impact of the freaking out about the things that are actually bad. Frankly, if it wasn't for that streak of self-sabotage, I'd say she was significantly more psychologically healthy than she used to be.
Its true for quite a few diseases, but some show up after 6 weeks or so.
Yeah, all I've really said to her so far are things that just encourage her to be careful. I haven't lectured her, because she used to share my beliefs, so she already knows what I think. In fact, she still talks to me because I haven't lectured her (she told me that). As far as calling her a slut...um, I don't think she is one. I don't want other people to think she is. I'm mostly concerned that she's going to hurt herself via sleeping around and such, so I've made sure to emphasize being safe in whatever she does. Because I know she's a grown ass woman and she can do her thang. I just don't want her to do anything she'll regret later. So I've been encouraging her to use protection, but she told me it feels better without it. So...no go, I guess. I don't know what I can do.
It doesn't help that I'm so far away. I say that because while I was home, she wanted to go out clubbing and shit and I wouldn't because that's not my scene...so she didn't either. I really do think having different friends would make all the difference for her. She's always been super-impressionable.
The only thing you can ask is that she starts being more responsible. Tell her to buy a pack of condoms or something. Warn her about coke because the people most ignorant of hard drugs are generally conservatives. Their knowledge extends to 'it's really bad', but she probably equated it with ecstasy thanks to our ridiculous laws and now she's taken that there's probably nothing she wouldn't try.
Edit: And the above post invalidates pretty much everything I've said
The unprotected sex, however, is a Really Big Deal. If she was as conservative as all that, she may see it as an "all or nothing" situation: either she's completely abstinent and safe from everything, or she might as well go crazy and take on every risk. I think you all are a little younger than me, so she probably had to deal with abstinence-only education that told her condoms don't work, "the only safe sex is no sex," etc. Since she's not going by herself, you could volunteer to take her to the local Planned Parenthood so she can get tested and onto birth control. PP will also talk to her about safer sex practices and give her the Big Bag O'Condoms. Maybe offer to get an exam yourself, too, so she feels like you're going together for moral support? An extra pap smear is never a bad idea.
I know you're trying to help and I know you don't mean to, but you're using a lot of judgmental language and that might be part of why she seems unreceptive. You're kind of setting yourself up as a Moral Authority and her as the Downfallen Woman; instead of talking about how your values differ or bringing up things like how many guys she's slept with, focus on the fact that you care about her and want her to live her own life as safely and healthily as possible.
And a lot show up even earlier, as in days. And there's a lot of non-bloodborne STDs. And she may be contagious long before exhibiting symptoms. This line of thought gets extra-D:.
Hey, I'm not advocating waiting, but I'm not wrong either. Keep in mind that we're talking about students in a country without universal healthcare, thus there's no guarantee of access to free tests. Ideally one would test after every partner, but there are practical issues to think about.
You can get free tests in a country without universal healthcare. In fact, most universities offer free and confidential services for testing. Moreover, most cities have free clinics, so it's very easy to get tested.
X and coke aren't really all that bad, comparatively. Unprotected sex is a dangerous for her and her partners, but keep in mind it's equally the guys' choice not to put a raincoat on their jimmy. If they have casual, unprotected sex with someone, they have to accept the risks as well. Just make sure she's stocked up on condoms and had regular appointments at the free clinic and be there for her if she crashes out.
I would never say X and Coke "Aren't all that bad"...
I wouldn't even say weed isn't all that bad either, because it depends on context.
Considering what the story is (assuming it's accurate) she seems to be having a lot of impulse and self control issues right now, as well as a fairly malleable personality. Coupled with the families history of dependency problems, any drug that has a risk of addiction is potentially very bad news for her.
Things like X and coke can seriously fuck you up, not even mentioning what they can be laced with or lead into if she really does spiral into that kind of lifestyle.
Assuming she can handle this, and only takes a few hits of stuff from time to time, doesn't get addicted, doesn't do any permanent damage, she's still got the bareback sex with nearly complete strangers going on. And it's already been mentioned that this is an absolute HUGE issue, regardless of how you may feel about sex and drugs in general.
And while you may be concerned about her being branded a slut, if she does, that's her problem, not yours. The only thing you should be worrying about is the unprotected sex and the possibility of her fucking her life up with drugs.
I've known plenty of girls who have "gone wild" in High School and college, but they were all smart enough to use protection and to do the drug thing in moderation. They slept with WAY more guys than your friend, and turned out fine.
Just take her out to lunch/dinner sometime and have an open, honest, and non condescending conversation about her safety.
Don't preach, don't push her or anything, but bring up your concerns about unprotected sex and how you have concerns about her greater risk for drug addiction.
I'd leave it at that, reinforce to her that you are her friend, but that you just don't want to see her screw up her life. You won't be able to change her mind unless she wants to change it, so just sit back after voicing those concerns and say nothing more on it. When all is said and done, all you can do is just hope she does right by herself.
Sadly, the only way to get her to stop is if she wants to stop. She most likely feels like nothing can stop/hurt her now. Shes invincible. At least in her mind.
On a non-serious note, whats her #, I'll scare her.
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It has to be shocking to see a friend change so completely, but usually (not always, because it only takes "one time" of anything to hurt or kill someone. That said...), as far as I've experienced, anyone who goes wild snaps out of it eventually, either slowly or cold turkey depending on the circumstances.
It may take a serious event to make her step back and really think about things. Of course I don't know what she's researched etc, but if she's just learning as she goes, she may need to see someone get too fucked up at a rave, or she or a friend may have to get some sort of STI. I'm an only child, too (though I'm not sure what that really has to do with it :P ) and I know I don't listen to anything someone tells me about my "behavior." I need to actually experience a reason to change anything. Whether or not this is a good thing I'm not saying; just that it may be what she needs as well.
Maybe let her know that you're there for her if something does happen. It's not the end of the world if one contracts herpes -- a surprisingly high number of sexually active adults have some sort of STI. If she feels overwhelmed with the drugs, maybe let her know she can talk to you until it's over (if she's tripping or somesuch) -- but do let her know that over time, ecstasy can affect her brain. If she's treating it like recreation, with about a month or so between uses, she'll probably not suffer much long-term damage (Note: not advocating use) but with the frequency it sounds like she's rolling she might be seeing a holey brain.
It's good to see someone concerned about a friend, though. She may see you as the "stick in the mud" if you bring up the topic, but there's not much she could be doing with herself that would be more deserving of a talking-to, if not an intervention. Too often I see friends freaking out about behavior that seems normal to me, but I just want to applaud your real concern.
I'm not saying this will happen, but, still. I wish you all the luck with this. =\
P.S. I have a friend who is somewhat similar right now. Though, I am managing to talk her out of this mindset.
Is she having stress issues? My friend turns to this sort of thing when she gets really stressed out.
Edit: My friend is also 15, this is why I am against the "doing everyone in sight." I'm not trying to just be a control freak to her. But it seems your friend is "of age" so there isn't really much in that category that is your business. But just voice your concern about going sans protection.
I'd just like to say that a lot of people I know have gone through this. They just need to get it out of their system, like in the case of some people I know. The big problem with this is that people who are repressed for a long time and then start going wild are totally out of their depth.
For example, I know plenty of people in highschool who spent those four (in some cases 5, 6) years getting high, sleeping with girls/guys, and partying with friends, so that when they got into college they were either past it or they had a better handle on it. The people who 'go wild' in college, without dabbling in anything during highschool, tend to go for harder and faster thrills than your average newbie to the party scene, and have no idea how to handle things or pace themselves.
Try to keep an eye on your friend, because while she'll likely burn herself out or get it out of her system, she may continue to do things that your average party-goer won't even try, dangerous things.
Yeah, I've known a lot of people who came from sheltered backgrounds, went through a wild phase, and eventually toned it down into something in between.
What would suck is if she contracted something permanent. Going through a wild phase and having some embarrassing memories is one thing; catching herpes or HIV is something else entirely.
I wouldn't bother trying to convince her to tone it down, but I would try to convince her to (A) use condoms and (B) not do any hard drugs. She's going to do something to hurt herself eventually, I'd just try to make sure that it's the kind of hurt that eventually heals and not the kind of hurt that sticks around for the rest of her life.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I've talked to her a little about this, and why I don't like it, but I also told her she can do what she wants. She has actually told me some of this stuff, I think, to get a response from me (aka asking me what I think), so I've told her that.
Just as a note, I didn't call her a slut. Someone said I should avoid that language. I wouldn't call her that. I know sleeping with three people isn't a huge issue. It's the lack of protection that worries me. And I'm worried that people will take advantage of her new...freedom. I don't want guys to think she's easy, and I think that is my concern, since we've been best friends since we were small. I know it's not my responsibility, but it's still a worry I have.
I know the protection thing is the major thing. The problem is, I won't be home until December, so I won't see her. I guess I could volunteer to go with her then, to Planned Parenthood? And talk to her about using condoms? (I'm just worried about what she'll do between now and then, though).
As far as the E is concerned, she hasn't expressed to me any desire to try other drugs, but she may have already and just not told me about it.
I'm sorry if I failed to clarify this (I said the word 'conservative' and it seems like a lot of people went off on that), but I'm not being judgmental of her. I'm just really worried about the consequences her actions may have. As someone else pointed out, she may get Herpes or HIV, esp. since she's sleeping with guys she doesn't know with no protection.
So far, I've tried to just encourage her to be safe, not to drive drunk, and encourage her to go get tested for STDs. The thing is, when I mentioned getting tested to her last night, and she said the thing about "oh, it takes six months for it to show up if you have an STD"...I don't know if I should go online and send her facts, or just let it go at that. I don't want to cross the line into lecture territory.
I just don't know.
An IUD is birth control.
It is not STI control, though, so condoms are still a Good Plan.
Kay, just wanted to clarify.
Hate to say it, but based on how how much of an addictive personality your friend has, I'd say she's basically fucked if she starts snorting coke.
i told her that it wasn't a good idea.
It may have been stupid, but I told her I didn't want to discuss this with her anymore, because my closest friend and my sister both told me I should try to give her an ultimatum. They both know her, of course, and said they think she is desperate for the attention these sorts of actions will garner.
So basically I told her that until she stops making irresponsible choices, I'm not going to speak to her. I made sure to tell her that I love her, and that I want her to be careful, and then I signed off (she was at work, so we were talking via aim, which i hate).
I don't know if that will be bad or good. I guess I'll have to wait and see.
Please don't do what other advice threads do and just let this thread die if it all works out well. Or if it doesn't.
Tell us either way, because I want to know now.
When should I try to talk to her again?
She told me when I said I can't talk to her that she may not try it.
So should I call her after this weekend?
I feel so weird asking for advice, but I've talked to a lot of friends here at school about it (who don't know her and have never met her) and they don't know what to say.
Stick to your guns. You told her you're not going to talk to her if she keeps doing irresponsible stuff.
Its up to her to contact you and say "I'm not doing stupid shit".
If you call up and say "hey, so did you try coke?" or "did you stop doing stupid shit?"
makes it sound too much like a lecture or a watchful parent.
you don't want that.
the message you want to project is that you're a concerned friend, and she's hurting you a lot by being so reckless with her safety, because you care about her, and you just can't take the hurt and worry anymore, so you put the friendship on the line.
and you've done that.
Sorry to belabor the point, but you said you don't use judgmental language with her. Yes, you do, actually, probably without meaning to. Worrying that boys may think she's "easy" is judgmental. You need to understand: "easy" and "slut" and "too many sexual partners" are not things that you should be worrying about. She could have sex with a thousand guys and it'd still be none of your business, and if guys think that she likes no-strings-attached sex when, in fact, it sounds like she does like it, it's not a bad thing.
What you can worry about and talk to her about is the unprotected sex part. If she has an IUD (I read that somewhere earlier, can't remember if it was in the OP) she won't get pregnant, but that does precisely nothing to prevent against HIV infection. Condoms are the key to safe casual sex, and as such, should pretty much rain from the sky. Again, she needs to get her butt to an expert in sexual health such as at the Planned Parenthood so they can give her the talk, but in the meantime: express how terrible it would be if she got AIDS. Plus, if she can, she ought to go get the HPV vaccine, since cervical cancer is nothing to fool around with. An unwanted pregnancy can be aborted, a baby she can't take care of can be given up for adoption, but HIV doesn't leave you with a lot of options.
I know a lot of people may disagree, but in my own experience, coke is not the Drug O'Horrors people make it out to be. (Heroin, on the other hand...) I have known many, many people who occaisionally use it, refrain from developing a dependency, and do the normal respectable person thing the rest of the time. It is, however, a physically risky drug for some people, and it's easy to get psychologically hooked on it (it's not physically addictive, though.) Try to get her to educate herself on safer drug use, but if she does tell you she tried coke, she hasn't suddenly turned into a junkie. She's going through a wild phase, not turning tricks in a parking lot to get her fix.
at this stage, are you sure she's not just talking shit?
Sorry, I disagree. I understand this is a forum and there's no way you could understand all the nuances of our relationship, but I really do think this is the best possible action I could take. People who know the both of us have told me that repeatedly, and I refused because I wanted to be a supportive friend. But at this point, she won't even listen to suggestions about practicing safe sex, and it's just too much. It seems like she may just be seeking attention, and I don't want to keep feeding that. So far, me being supportive of her hasn't helped at all. It's a stressful situation.
Like I said, I made sure to tell her that I love her and that what I want is for her to be safe. I couldn't care less if she sleeps with a thousand guys, but I want her to be careful. I know too many people who have gotten incurable STDs from that type of stuff. It's not a wise choice.
I know I asked for advice, but I pretty much completely disagree with you here. If she tells me about it, it's because she wants me to know. She knows that I disapprove. And personally, I think the fact that she told me makes it my business.
Self destructiveness/wild experimentation is a part of growing up for a lot of people.
IMO the only monumentally stupid thing she is doing is having sex without protection.
Try to instead of telling her what not to do, that if she is going to do these things there are things she NEEDS to do to minimise the risk she places herself in.
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He's been asking her to get tested and be safe.
And I disagree that bareback sex is the only dumb thing she's doing. Anyone getting involved with potentially addictive substances with a family history of addiction issues is taking a HUGE risk. X and Cocaine are not like taking a puff of weed at a party. You can argue about the risks of short or single term use for them all you want, but long term/heavy use is undeniably bad.
She's not "just" being a bit free and exploring her sexuality and partying a bit, she's very much binging on the two with almost no regards to her own personal safety. She could be doing all of this in a much safer way and I'd have no issues with it at all, but she isn't.
Continually sharing her exploits with the OP and ignoring his advice/making him worry while continually showing how much more "into" this life she's getting is unfair to him.
He's let her know how he feels, and that he will be there for her when she needs him, but that he can't condone her self destructive behavior and he won't just stand around and watch her kill herself/ruin her life.