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Final Fantasy 11 or World of Warcraft
aaronsedge
__BANNED USERS regular
__BANNED USERS regular
I can't decide which one I should get.
Can someone tell me whats better in each and the exclusives each one has?
So far I've been reading nothing, but wow is better because of pvp.
But I don't really care about pvp or the shit community that comes with it.
Can someone tell me whats better in each and the exclusives each one has?
So far I've been reading nothing, but wow is better because of pvp.
But I don't really care about pvp or the shit community that comes with it.
aaronsedge on
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You can solo, and it's generally a much more accessible MMO.
You HAVE to group to get very far.
You will spend for-fricking-ever getting anywhere, because you have a gazillion different "jobs" to learn.
If you're good at making friends and plan on LIVING online, sure, hey, fine.
But WoW, which I have quite a bit of experience with, you can pick up and put down pretty easily unless you get into a guild in which case you're in the position to be guilt-tripped into playing more than you might desire to.
Depending on how many other MMOs you've played, go for WoW. FF11 is not MMO-noob friendly.
WoW would certainly be better for PVP, but it's also better for pretty much everything else.
There's a good game buried deep within FFXI's layers of player-unfriendliness. But you have to work very, very hard to find it. It's not worth it. Which is a shame, but that's for another thread.
> turn on light
Good start to the day. Pity it's going to be the worst one of your life. The light is now on.
That said I liked the jobs (classes) and wished the game was just more accessible without the forced grouping.
At least with WoW you have options...if you want to group that's great but if you don't, then you can get to 70 just fine. With FFXI after level 10 it's pretty much forced grouping from there on out if you want to gain any experience.
Figuratively, I take it?
Isn't it like, $.99 extra for a new character?
Which is...bullshit, to say the least. It's like if I bought a copy of Pokemon diamond, and every one after the sixth on my team I need to mail Nintendo another buck. Fuck you, I payed for the game("License to play it", whatever) I should get to make a million characters.
But I take it you mean in the sense that the only people who are still looking for groups have level 75 second jobs and are only sitting around as a level 2 Beast master because they got bored?
and ugly
Re: character slot fees... yes, you pay extra for each character past your first. Their reasoning (or flimsy excuse if you prefer) is that you can, and quite possibly should, do everything with just one character. Due to the nature of the job system, that makes some sense. However, that's still not a reason to charge for extra characters, just one that's supposed to make you feel better about the limitation.
Re: new characters... there's been some talk in the FFXI thread lately that new characters, ie those that have no or underleveled subjob and/or low rank (an indication of how many storyline missions you've done) are shunned from parties. Whether that is common or not I can't say.
> turn on light
Good start to the day. Pity it's going to be the worst one of your life. The light is now on.
Then go pick up Final Fantasy XI, Everquest 2, Dungeons and Dragons online, Lord of the Rings Online, or City of Heroes/Villians.
There are other MMO options and if you don't think you will like WoW then why even consider it?
edit: Not bashing on wow or the people who play it, personally I am addicted and play it for a few hours a day at least. I just think that if you feel like WoW is a game you won't enjoy, then don't even bother spending the 50 bucks to buy it.
On a complete tangent, why do all Asian (I would have said Korean, but FF11 falls into the same category) MMOs have such washed out colours? They're all a shade of ochre, like Morrowind if you maxed out gamma. Yick.
That gives me an idea.
But ff11 was so long ago. I cant remember anything about it really.
I do remember it looking much better and seeming like it had a bigger area.
In wow I just remember always playing by myself and then lagging in the big cities.
I liked leveling fast, but it seemed thats all there was to do.
Do WoW if you have less time and are going in solo, it's much easier.
Continuing a tangent...
Behold, the colors!
And I kind of liked your washed out screenshot better, too :oops:
[edit] Thread needs moar next-gen bloom.
The only problem I see, is that other MMOs will, by comparison, seem like user-unfriendly grindfests that take too much time.....which, um, they sorta are...
My first MMO was actually a MUD where it had open PK, permadeath (age and after 60 kills or so), and full-looting of PKed corpses. Playing WoW was like being released from jail.
Margaret Thatcher
I don't know whether I like that or not, but it makes things a lot easier.
In Runescape, if you die, you keep three items from your inventory. Thats it. Its the three most valuable items. And value is determined by the game, not their worth to you. You can keep a fourth using a special ability called Protect Item. If you've recently attacked another player, you are "skulled" (flagged), and if you die, you keep nothing. Protect Item again will let you keep an extra item, or in this case, let you keep just one item.
In Ultima Online, if you die, you appear as a ghost at your body, and all of your stuff is lootable. You then have to make the long trip back to a "healer".
When you were near death in those two, your pulse raced and you would start to panic. And if you were good enough, you can avoid death for most of the game. When I played Runescape I think I got to about combat level 114 or something before giving up, and between levels 20-114, I died once. Maybe twice. In Ultima, I died a lot, but only because once I died once and had no stuff, I'd already played for three months and was bored, so I jsut ran around exploring naked, and dying whenever I rounded a corner and walked into a big-ass Dragon.
In WoW death is inevitable. And you don't feel any worries about it, because its like...oh no, 10% durability damage and a 10 minute corpse run. Woe is me.
I don't think I could play a game with actual xp loss (not debt) or item loss (other than repair costs). I don't want to ever play a game where I can log off being worse off than I was when I logged in.
EQ2 now handles death penalty roughly the same way CoH does, with XP debt and, if no one can rez you, respawn at the nearest respawn camp (or sometimes a camp you choose). There is also an equipment durability hit, but you have to die 10 times in a row without mending your gear before it actually does anything bad. And repair is pretty cheap.
However, the original EQ2 system was, I've heard, far worse, with shared xp debt if anyone in your group died and you'd lose one "shard" that reduced your attributes until you corpse-ran to pick it up. I think there was also the possibility of permanently losing a shard, which must've hurt. Anyway, needless to say, they changed it, and death is now not a big deal. Which is nice. I'm with Scooter on this, death shouldn't cause you to be worse off than when you started.
> turn on light
Good start to the day. Pity it's going to be the worst one of your life. The light is now on.
Really, for someone looking for an MMO?
There are sites with lists of free trials. TRY ALL OF THEM (and many people can SEND you a free trial for games that lack them for just anyone)
After my WoW account runs out in a few days, I'm probably going to try Eve out or something, with that nice big 14 day trial they have.
And then there's a bunch of games coming out for Christmas.
It just kicked up your adrenalin a bit as you frantically tried to avoid death.
I do that occasionally in WoW, on my mage, when I accidentally overaggro an extra mob and I'm frantically looking around for something that will give me just enough mana to finish him off so I can drink and get it all back.
But its not the same.
I imagine serious death lures more people who are into actually being particularly badass for having gotten somewhere in the game, rather than focusing on the content itself, or something of the sort.
I play these games for fun, i think some of you guys forget what fun is sometimes.
Well for some the increased death penalty heightens the tension during difficult encounters, thus making the game more exciting.
Everybody has their own definition of fun though, which is why we have all these different MMO's. Personally, I got over the whole "higher stakes" thing after de-leveling more than once in FFXI. I'd had enough after that. And don't even get me started on EVE.
In FFXI, you have to find another XP party, which can take literally hours, and then grind out the lost XP.
In EVE, after losing a ship, you have to go kill hordes of mindless NPC enemies, which can take hours. Or you have to spend more time mining, or trading, or salvaging, or whatever money-making scheme you like... but they all take hours to compensate for ship and module loss. The only upsides in EVE are that you can 1) choose which grind you do, and 2) fly cheap ships if you don't like big losses. But with #2, you save money but are stuck in cheap ships, so what's the point? In that case you're not doing anything someone brand-new to the game couldn't do.
> turn on light
Good start to the day. Pity it's going to be the worst one of your life. The light is now on.
Not so. In CoX you start getting debt after level 10, so if you double the amount of xp from 10-50 plus the 1-10, you'd have the maximum amount of xp you'd ever have to earn on a single character. You know that if you earn a certain amount of xp every night, you'll know how long it'll take you to hit 50.
With actual XP loss, there is no maximum. You could, theoretically, play every single night for a year and be worse off than when you started.
Also, fuck out-of-mission debt in CoX.
This gets bandied about a lot. I did just that over the last couple of weeks, and its been working out alright. Just completed my missions up to rank 3 last night as a matter of fact.
Also, you can solo a good ways up, but its not as fast as grouping past level 10 or so. I partied with one other person the
majority of the way from 10 to 20, so you don't even need to build up a full party to go at er, but most players will want the pt to
fill up before they get started.
That aside, heres my take on the two:
----
WoW:
The player control is superior in a way I can't even begin to describe. You can move exactly as you want to, between
jumping, floating and flying mounts.
You can solo from 1 - 70, no problem, no questions asked.
The pacing is much 'faster' in that if you've only got half an hour, you can log on and get some combat in.
The PvP is worlds ahead.
With the exception of limiting you to a single guild channel, the chat system is better.
WoW allows you to run windowed, and encourages UI modification.
FFXI:
The crafting system is far more complicated, now whether or not that means better... but theres more to it.
I find the group dynamics more compelling. Melee characters will worry about timing weapon skills so that they skill chain.
Mages will be watching for a skill chain so that they can magic burst. Healers will... well healers still heal and basically just
fret over hate management.
I prefer the storytelling in FFXI. Your character pops off into cut-scenes during certain quests and missions, which I
like more than the longer dialogues in WoW where no one moves about. Though if there are cut-scenes that I've
forgotten about, please correct me.
Single character. I like this, since it makes it easier to build (or ruin) your reputation. Hey, its Bassiwassi, he was a
competent white mage, lets let his thief into our party. Oh, its Bassiwassi, he can't heal for shit, so I bet his warrior blows
too, etc etc.
----
I haven't done any end-game raiding in FFXI (just hit 20 the other day), so if anyone could speak to that, that might be nice.
Players can create channels, while that does have some problems, it also gives players options outside of the basic guild channel.
Clearly your idea of fun is the only correct one.
I get the point that greater death punishment = death sucks = you try harder to avoid death = "higher" level of play, but I *hated* grinding for 2+ hours on mobs when I died in the last MUD I played. I don't see how gridning is really fun for anyone, it's more like punishment.
1 mistaked buggered my whole night.
Screw that.
Margaret Thatcher
You're right that XP debt, at least as it's done in CoX, has caps. That is part of what makes it kinder/better/more palatable. But while you are in debt, you're still losing half the xp you otherwise would be earning. That was my point in saying they are essentially the same. But beyond that, XP debt is IMHO a far more preferable system.
Of course, I think the best death penalty theoretically is one that doesn't directly or indirectly waste the player's time, which is what all the systems we've discussed do, more or less. Wasting the player's time is a very old-school notion that I think will eventually be largely weeded out of mainstream MMOs. Right now, though, it's at the core of most MMO game mechanics, and inconveniencing the player is a design decision.
> turn on light
Good start to the day. Pity it's going to be the worst one of your life. The light is now on.
I have left and returned to FFXI more times than I can count. Maybe it's an abusive relationship, I don't know. But I really do have a soft spot in my heart for this game. I never feel quite so much "at home" as I do when I'm tooling around in Vanadiel.
There are still a lot of great things about FFXI. It's not impossible to start a new character. It's not impossible to get a party. There is more flexibility with regard to 6 man groups, so while those are still the standard, you can get by with different setups.
FFXI has a great storyline. It puts you right in the middle of it, and at least gives you the impression that your actions are affecting the world at large. I mean, sure, it tells everyone else the same thing, but it's still fun to work your way through the story.
The job system means that you never have to "start from scratch" once you've started a new character, which can be nice. All of your skills and abilities are right there at your fingertips at any point. You just have to slip into your moghouse to switch back over to access them.