P90 in 3D-Visionoscope!!

SketchTheArtist

Howdy!

Here's a P90 I modelled in 3D for a class homework. We had a budget of 10 000 polygons (triangles) but I only used up 2 732. If I can, I'll texture it with diffuse and normal maps in the other assignements we might have in 2D and material classes otherwise, I'll probably do it during the holidays when we're off. Enjoy!

MagicToaster

Why didn't you use more polies? They were available, the gun would have looked smoohter. Also, you're killing me with that drop shadow.

SketchTheArtist

MagicToaster wrote: »

Why didn't you use more polies? They were available, the gun would have looked smoohter. Also, you're killing me with that drop shadow.

Well, sure, I could use the 10 000 polys available, but where's the challenge? And more importantly, there's no game with a 10 000 poly gun in it. This is a portfolio piece I need for the end of my program to send to game companies. Low Poly is a major thing these days. :P

Raslin

There's a good bit that could be fixed with this, wouldn't go putting it in a portfolio just yet.

The gun barrel looks off, for starters. It should be more cylindrical, and you should very rarely model the actual exit of the barrel(when a texture will look better, by being much smoother). Magazine and the parts that interact with it look pretty good, wouldn't change it. The red-dot on the top lacks detail, as well as the area around the trigger. Though, I think the main problem here is your smoothing groups. It seems inconsistant, and some parts look smooth while others don't, which makes things look weird. If we could get some renders with better rendering, we could give a lot better critique.

Also, what program are you using?

McGibs

even 2k polies is really really low for a low-poly 1st person model. Most of the weapons I make for FH2 are upwards of 6k or 7k, and thats on a 3 year old engine (bf2)

Lots more details could be sunk into things like the iron sights (if the game uses 3d sights), more sides on the magazine (which will be in the players face), smoother bevels on the body and grips, etc etc.

Hell, with a 10k poly limit, you could probobly get away with modeling all the bullets in the magazine and making it transparent, and it would still run fine in any modern fps game engine.

SketchTheArtist

@RASLIN: What red dot? Could you point out maybe with another picture the areas that seems to have inconsistent smoothing groups? I've talked and showed my model with other students who are much more advanced than I and they didn't see anything wrong with it. Don't worry, I'm not putting it in my portfolio yet I'll show it to my teacher tomorrow for indication on what might be improved. Probably rounding the barrel a bit more. I'm using 3DS Max 9 by the way.

@McGIBS: Yeah but it's easy putting a lot of details with 'infinite' polygon count, but the real "artistery" in 3D modeling is doing a lot with less. That's what the material quality coupled with Normal and Specular map come into play.

Thanks for the words guys!

DarkPrimus

The angle of the front view of the gun makes the barrel look like it's crooked. I understand that the barrel is actually shorter on top than on the bottom, but the way it's angled, with the lighting, it just looks like you modeled it totally asymmetrical.

I agree that you should keep it lower on the polygons if it's for a game portfolio. The way they do textures nowadays, they can have the layered details added in that way. However, if it's going to be for a game profile, then model it with enough inside parts so that it could be used to make a reload animation.

Raslin

For starters, don't give McGibs shit. He does good work. Though 6-7k is too much for a 1st person weapon model(Its not that much over, but it is over what it should be for BF2).

By Red dot, I mean the sights. Tomorrow I'll show you what I mean with the smoothing. However, you should always work within your budget. Lower poly's is better than lots, but the best model is the one with the most detail at the budget given. Basically though, on the smoothing, look at the front of the gun(not the barrel). That front little handgrip, facing the same direction as the barrel, looks smooth. Yet the side of the gun connecting to it looks flat, when both sides are flat. Its hard for me to explain, it would be easier if I could actually show you, but thats not really possible.

lilchingch0ng

hahahahaha

where's the challenge of using more poly's, are you fucking serious? are you actually saying low poly modeling is harder than high poly? your telling me cinematics are less challenging to do than in game bullshit low poly?

pull your head out of your ass. high poly doesn't allow you to cut as many corners, you either know what goes where or you don't. the "art" of the low poly model is how you go about simplifying your geometry to achieve the illusion of the actual product. and what's this? no wireframe? well how the shit can we crit it? its not even skinned for christ's sake.

btw your handle is pinching (or poling, w/e u call it).

Raslin

lilchingch0ng wrote: »

hahahahaha

where's the challenge of using more poly's, are you fucking serious? are you actually saying low poly modeling is harder than high poly? your telling me cinematics are less challenging to do than in game bullshit low poly?

pull your head out of your ass. high poly doesn't allow you to cut as many corners, you either know what goes where or you don't. the "art" of the low poly model is how you go about simplifying your geometry to achieve the illusion of the actual product. and what's this? no wireframe? well how the shit can we crit it? its not even skinned for christ's sake.

btw your handle is pinching (or poling, w/e u call it).

Yeah, acting like an ass and giving shit to low poly artists. Classy.

Low poly work can be just as hard as high poly work, both take a good artist to make good work out of. But yes, a wireframe would be nice.

lilchingch0ng

Raslin wrote: »

Yeah, acting like an ass and giving shit to low poly artists. Classy.

Low poly work can be just as hard as high poly work, both take a good artist to make good work out of. But yes, a wireframe would be nice.

my bad, that came out the wrong way. i just didn't like his response regarding the ease of high poly modeling. i still don't see the point of posting a low poly model, unskinned with no wireframe tho.

*edit*

and i'm not givng shit to low poly artists, just to the "artform." low poly art is done because of constraints, high poly stuff is meant to be as awesome as it can physically be. low poly art requires skill, but its similiar to producing concept sketches. Concept art is meant to be as detailed as it can be given a short timeframe (not that cinematicy stuff doesn't have timeframes to deal with), and fully rendered 2d stuffs is just flat out meant to be as detailed/good as possible given a longer timeframe (usually) and less constaints.

if u can do high poly, you can do low poly (i mean u start off lowpoly, u just keep adding more). i'm not saying low poly artists suck, cuz there really is no such thing, its a job position, not a type of artist.

Raslin

lilchingch0ng wrote: »

Raslin wrote: »

Yeah, acting like an ass and giving shit to low poly artists. Classy.

Low poly work can be just as hard as high poly work, both take a good artist to make good work out of. But yes, a wireframe would be nice.

my bad, that came out the wrong way. i just didn't like his response regarding the ease of high poly modeling. i still don't see the point of posting a low poly model, unskinned with no wireframe tho.

*edit*

and i'm not givng shit to low poly artists, just to the "artform." low poly art is done because of constraints, high poly stuff is meant to be as awesome as it can physically be. low poly art requires skill, but its similiar to producing concept sketches. Concept art is meant to be as detailed as it can be given a short timeframe (not that cinematicy stuff doesn't have timeframes to deal with), and fully rendered 2d stuffs is just flat out meant to be as detailed/good as possible given a longer timeframe (usually) and less constaints.

if u can do high poly, you can do low poly (i mean u start off lowpoly, u just keep adding more). i'm not saying low poly artists suck, cuz there really is no such thing, its a job position, not a type of artist.

I almost completely agree(though I have seen some pretty nice artists when they do high-poly, yet their low-poly stuff just isn't up to par). Just trying to keep things on the constructive side on the forum, we're all here to help each other

RusticCreature

Many artists render in high poly and then chisel the poly count down. Trying to render a good low poly piece is like trying draw a good highly simplified drawing. You could argue that Comic book art is lowbrow compared to other things, but that would make you a narcissitic ass. You must be able to render at a high poly count before you can simplify it down.

Unless you're rendering Gollum, low poly modeling is much harder than high poly.

vrempire

Well, I think if the texture mapping is great, it can compensate the low polygons method.
Anyway, can't wait to see the latest update of this guns since it looks quite cool and comes handy

Raslin

RusticCreature wrote: »

You must be able to render at a high poly count before you can simplify it down.

I disagree. I personally find it much easier, and better, to create a low poly model first, and if you want something higher poly, to add to that. Why? Its a hell of a lot easier to add detail than remove it. Chamfer, bevel, extrude, or just add things that you were going to leave to textures. It can be done either way, but its personal workflow.

lilchingch0ng

difference of opinions i see.

my take on it is this:

i understand the difficulty of low poly, believe me, i do. your trying to pull off something with a few steps as possible. it requires creativity, no doubt.

my thing is that high poly models require so much more time in comparison. the difficulty of low poly doesn't come from its complexity, its from the problem solving involved when working within a poly limit. As things stand, technology is getting better and better, soon enough we won't need to worry about a poly limit. this is, of course, no excuse for sloppy topology. anyhoo, if low poly was so much more difficult than high poly, why does it require a fraction of the time to create? at the end of the day, what are you more impressed by: world of warcraft's ingame models or their cinematic models?

i will say that its usually best to build a low poly model, then add details. heck, thats the fundamentals of normal mapping. creating a super detailed model right off the bat then simplifying it down is just a pain in the ass.

*edit*

and raslin, when you were talking about some artist's low poly work being subpar in comparison to their high poly; this standard goes both ways. many low poly artists high poly work tends to be subpar as well. they are different focuses, and they both require practice to get proficient at.

and uh, RusticCreature, i hope that last comment about gollum was a typo, because otherwise i don't understand your train of thought. i think the confusion lies in exactly what high poly modeling really is. i'm not saying overuse your polygons to achieve effects that could have been done using simpler, more efficient methods. high poly is *supposed* to look like gollum. thats why its so damn hard. high poly still has the same issues as low poly as far as creating good, efficient body topology. your poly count isn't an excuse for a terrible wireframe, low poly just tries to create more with less, while high poly just wants to create more.

SketchTheArtist

What's up?

Well, finished it this morning and got a whopping 90%! My teacher told me to always chamfer the edges so it won't look like a kleenex box he says. :-)

I tweaked some things like the handles to make them rounder and changed the barrel. I might try to start texturing when I have the time but the homeworks are piling up every week!

Mucho thanks again guys!

lilchingch0ng

still no wireframe? o_O

your getting alot of pinching (poling?) still, if we could see your topology it would be alot easier to help you fix it.

Raslin

Huge improment imo, but harder to gie crits without a wire shot

SketchTheArtist

I'll hit up a couple of wire-frame shots by tomorrow.