SOLVED!

ege02

Can I use this to my advantage during the interview process?

I'm not going to give the name of the company, but the vast majority of stuff I've been hearing, both from people who work there and their clients, is negative.

Basically I've made my mind that sometime before I accept the job offer (if it comes that is), I'll definitely be asking some direct, honest questions about the future of the company and whether the position I am applying to will be viable within a year. When is it a good time to ask these questions, and what is a good, professional way to ask them?

Having found out about how badly they are doing, I'm certainly feeling less nervous about tomorrow's interview, yet at the same time I'm looking for a way to exploit this knowledge to my advantage. Question is, how?

edit: tomorrow is the 1st round face-to-face interview by the way

Shinto

So is your real interest here in trying to find out information about job security or in using the presumed lack of job security as a rationale for demanding higher wages?

Because I think you might have to make a decision about that before you try to find the right approach.

Wylderneedshelp

It is of no use whatsoever in an interview situation to bring this up.


I mean, unless they are complete fucking morons, they are going to deny it anyway. Any question about "future job security" is just going to get the answer "Oh yes, you'll still be working here when you're 80. We're a great company!".

Using it as a basis for demanding higher wages may be a viable option, but actually citing that as a reason is likely to do more harm than good.

Do your research. Decide whether you want to work there at all. If you do, then decide on your requirements (salary wise) to work there and stick to them. Dont bother with posturing.

ege02

Shinto wrote: »

So is your real interest here in trying to find out information about job security or in using the presumed lack of job security as a rationale for demanding higher wages?

I'd like to use the presumed lack of job security to get to the point where they actually offer me a job.

I can decide whether or not I want to take that job after that. Until then, I don't really care; I'd rather have a lot of options to choose from before deciding, than take the first job that comes across even if that was the only company I was truly interested in working for in the first place. And the reason is that I can then play the companies against each other to negotiate the maximum salary possible.

Blake T

Ask what are the short term goals and long term goals of the company. Ask them what oppurtunities there are for advancement.

You will be specifically asked if you have any questions for them. Don't try to grill them but for damm sure ask several intelligent questions.

Corvus

I'd be very careful about how you phrase any comments about the company's poor performance. Are we talking, "lower than expected profits" or "may be going down the crapper soon" as you could easily offend the people interviewing you.

If you don't have confidence in the company, are you really interested in working there anyways? Furthermore, sending the message in the interview that you don't have confidence in the long term viability of the company probably rules you at as a potential employee anyways.

Shinto

ege02 wrote: »

Shinto wrote: »

So is your real interest here in trying to find out information about job security or in using the presumed lack of job security as a rationale for demanding higher wages?

I'd like to use the presumed lack of job security to get to the point where they actually offer me a job.

I can decide whether or not I want to take that job after that. Until then, I don't really care; I'd rather have a lot of options to choose from before deciding, than take the first job that comes across even if that was the only company I was truly interested in working for in the first place. And the reason is that I can then play the companies against each other to negotiate the maximum salary possible.

Well, I can't see how playing on the insecurity of the job position can help you to get an offer. So good luck.

ege02

Shinto wrote: »

ege02 wrote: »

Shinto wrote: »

So is your real interest here in trying to find out information about job security or in using the presumed lack of job security as a rationale for demanding higher wages?

I'd like to use the presumed lack of job security to get to the point where they actually offer me a job.

I can decide whether or not I want to take that job after that. Until then, I don't really care; I'd rather have a lot of options to choose from before deciding, than take the first job that comes across even if that was the only company I was truly interested in working for in the first place. And the reason is that I can then play the companies against each other to negotiate the maximum salary possible.

Well, I can't see how playing on the insecurity of the job position can help you to get an offer. So good luck.

For example, the company currently has the highest voluntary attrition rate in its industry. So I'm assuming loyalty is one of the primary attributes they are looking for in a candidate.

Murphy

Isn't loyalty one of the primary attributes any potential employer is looking for? I mean, I can't imagine the other applicants are going to be all "I have no intention of being loyal." They will say "Oh, totally, 100% loyalty here" in the interview, and then when things get rough, they'll jump ship. Which I imagine is what you'd end up doing as well?

Also, there is probably a very good reason why they have the highest voluntary attrition rate.

Shogun

Ege how bad do you need the job? Could you continue to stay afloat and look for something with a better fit?

The Cat

There'll be a space at the end of the interview where they ask you if you have any specific questions about the job/company, sort of thing. You may as well go for broke then, because its no good pussyfooting around it and then finding out that the CO has been spending all the profits on his fetish for elderly bolivians and you're going to be on the street.

I gotta say, if people are leaving in droves, there's probably a reason. Have you spoken to anyone who used to work for them, or their competitors? I know there are certain environmental consultancies over here that would be Death To My Professional Standing were I ever to work for them, for instance, due to their reputation for craptacularity.

ege02

The Cat wrote: »

There'll be a space at the end of the interview where they ask you if you have any specific questions about the job/company, sort of thing. You may as well go for broke then, because its no good pussyfooting around it and then finding out that the CO has been spending all the profits on his fetish for elderly bolivians and you're going to be on the street.

I gotta say, if people are leaving in droves, there's probably a reason. Have you spoken to anyone who used to work for them, or their competitors? I know there are certain environmental consultancies over here that would be Death To My Professional Standing were I ever to work for them, for instance, due to their reputation for craptacularity.

Yeah, I mean I'm under no illusions about this company. I want the job offer simply because I'd like to use it as leverage when I am negotiating with other companies. Hell, I imagine this company is probably the worst place to start my career, considering its condition.

The Cat

If its one of those companies where people laugh and look awkward when you tell them who you work for, totally not worth it. Although I guess it depends. My little bro's old company was regarded with... well, meh-ness my most people, but drafters are in short supply and both the meh-company and everyone else knew it, so he's managed to negotiate himself up to AU$90K with a much better-regarded mob despite not quite being qualified yet. I can't decide whether to hi-5 or stab him, given the relative amount of time we've both invested in education :P

the broke-within-a-year thing is more than a warning sign, though. That's practically a gorillagram at 4am, rapping to DON'T WORK FOR THESE GUYS!!

Murphy

Another issue to consider (though you may already have) is that if you know that this company isn't doing well, then it's highly likely that other companies in the same industry also know. So if you come into an interview with Company Y and attempt to use your offer at Company X as leverage, they may very well chuckle and say "good luck with that."

Not Sarastro

Murphy wrote: »

Another issue to consider (though you may already have) is that if you know that this company isn't doing well, then it's highly likely that other companies in the same industry also know. So if you come into an interview with Company Y and attempt to use your offer at Company X as leverage, they may very well chuckle and say "good luck with that."

Your whole strategy sounds a little dodgy.

Negotiations like this work if you are in a position of strength, not simply if they are weak. You are (I gather, ie starting your career) an unemployed recent graduate or transferring into the industry. You are not in a position of strength. They are companies with a variety of options, the fact that one of the companies has problems only widens the likely recruitment pool of the other companies; it offers them more choice, not you. Unless you are magna cum laude from a top school in the industry, they have no particular reason to headhunt you.

Sounds like you are trying to punch above your pay grade, this kind of stuff is much more likely to work a few years down the line when you have a secure job, good performance & options for advancement at your current company that you can use to push others to offer you more.

Arch Guru XX

When I was in the job search that landed me my current job, one of the companies I interviewed with had seen both its CEO and CFO step down within the past month, and not under happy circumstances. I asked my first interviewer (a senior manager) about it, in what I thought was a gentle, I'm-curious-about-your-direction sort of way. He got visibly pissed about the question and seemed mad that I had the gall to bring it up. Needless to say, I did not get that job (though since I really like my current job, I think it was for the best).

Personally I think it's fair game to bring up things like this, but if an interviewer thinks you're bashing their company the odds of you getting the job drop substantially.

Corvus

Also, Ege, aren't you in the position of having to have a company sponsor a visa for you to work in the US, presuming this is a job in the US you're applying for? Given that situation, I don't think trying to leverage a company is going to go over well, at all.

Regardless, I don't think the interview is a good place for you to try to exploit this situation. Once they've offered you a job, and you're negotiating salary would seem like a better time to get down to the negotiation.

Lewisham

Arch Guru XX wrote: »

Personally I think it's fair game to bring up things like this, but if an interviewer thinks you're bashing their company the odds of you getting the job drop substantially.

Indeed. While it is a fair question, I completely fail to see the company's failings provides ege with any leverage, unless he was going for the CEO job.

ege02

I dominated that interview.

Thanks for the advice guys. Consider this solved.