Shining Force: The Legacy of Great Intention

UncleSporky

What is up, indeed.

This thread is about Shining Force, one of the finest strategy RPGs ever made. I have made it to encourage everybody to find it and play it because it is sweet and worth your time. Ok, so I don't expect many posts, but I thought I'd bring it up for old time's sake.



The gameplay
SF was the first SRPG I played and it still has my favorite mechanics of all of them.

12 characters in every battle at all times, selecting from a decently large pool. No small teams and none of the "you can only use these two characters who you have totally ignored" BS. Battle goes in order of speed rather than entire sides at once, which means much less getting ganged up on and less enemy team tactics you didn't anticipate. Finally, no permanent death gives you much more freedom to try out different tactics without worrying about losing a valuable member.

For some people, these things might make the game too easy, but it's one of those games that gives you the choice of how easy to make it. If you don't hang around and replay battles often you will find yourself challenged.

The presentation
I remember being amazed at the graphics the first time I played it. The battle backgrounds are pretty and character/enemy art is consistent and done in a neat anime style.



Also unique to Shining Force among SRPGs is typical, explorable RPG towns. I've always missed that in other strategy games. The writing is actually decent for this era, with some occasionally really funny humor rather than just being quaint.

Another thing I've always loved about the Shining series is their interesting characters. In a time when all other RPGs just had you with human heroes, this game let you use elves, dwarves, centaurs, birdmen, a wolfman, an armadillo in a steam suit and a scrubbing bubble.

And on that note:


artwork from Shining Force Central

The characters
In lieu of going through every character's strengths and weaknesses, here are some high and lowlights.



You get six centaur knights and they're pretty much all the same. An advantage of them early on is their great movement range and ability to use ranged spears, but late in the game you have more than enough range and they slip into mediocrity. One exception is Arthur, who sucks for most of the game but gains monster stats in his unpromoted late teens, and can also cast some basic spells including the multi-hitter Bolt.

The other spear-wielders are pretty decent characters. Kokichi's flight is a big plus and Guntz gets really good stats despite his low movement.

I try to use at least one of the two warriors throughout the game because otherwise you have no use for the great axes you find. Fortunately this is not hard because they are very good team members overall.

I always found healers hard to keep leveled with the rest of the team, but that was probably because I was stupid and didn't heal constantly to keep them moving. Some people like Gong because of his average fighter stats, but he gets no spells that do anything besides simply healing. Khris was always my favorite because of her spellset, which includes Quick and Slow.

The mages are awesome. Early in the game Blaze 2 can carry you through entire battles, exploiting enemies' formation stupidity. Domingo is one of my MVPs later due to not only his amazing spellcasting but also flight.



Zylo is the best character in the game. Well, ok, I guess he could end up as merely great depending on your playstyle, but he was always my favorite. It's best to level him to 20 before promotion and then hand him the Power Ring to add even more overkill.



I have to bring up one of the more underrated characters: Lyle. The other archers suck and you get this guy fairly late in the game, but if you take the time to level him up he becomes a real beast. This is right around the point where you get the really long range archer shots as well, making him even more useful.



Jogurt is a Yogurt. I don't know what a Yogurt is but apparently it is related to the beaver. He is one of my favorite examples of a joke character in a game. He has the worst stats of anybody, and if you level him up he will gain nothing and mysteriously go back to level 1. If you manage to kill an enemy with him, he'll get a Yogurt Ring, which upon giving it to another character will transform them into another Yogurt! Despite his worthlessness I can't help but pick him up every time (he's a secret character) if for no other reason than that he is silly. Also, four extra inventory spaces.

The remake
Shining Force was remade for the GBA as Resurrection of the Dark Dragon. It's a nice bit of fanservice but personally I couldn't enjoy it as much as the original. The reworked script just doesn't feel right; the biggest tragedy is Domingo losing what little personality he had and becoming a damn say-your-name Pokemon.



The music and sound was well done but the graphics are odd. I actually think the overworld sprites are decent but the battle sprites are just bizarre. Colors are muddy, everything is too bright/pastel and the "modular" animation looks cheap.




I guess it's not terrible overall. It adds some new features that the original lacked and new collectibles in the form of cards, earned for meeting specific battle conditions. It's probably rare and hard to find nowadays.

But who needs it when you can buy the original on the Wii Virtual Console for $8? It's a great classic but still holds up as a fun, well-made game today.

urahonky

Oh man, this is a great series. The only thing close to it is Fire Emblem. But FE is pretty unforgiving.

Wren

rat dude was the best dude.

also the phoenix

man these games took up so much of my childhood. good times

too bad they can't seem to do anything good with the shining series these days

Deadfall

I spent a good portion of my elementary and middle school years playing this game. This was the first game I actually completed by myself.

The sequel was good, but nothing beat the first one.

Tofystedeth

Oh man, I remember playing this. I forget which one had the Peter the Phoenix, but I remember before promotion his class was PHNK, which always made me think of a peacock honking.

lostwords

The first Shining Force is what got me into RPGs in general. I know Mae sucked balls in the game, but I kept her in my party forever, though I still don't know how human-centaur love works.

My first time through, I kept the main dude underleveled, because him dying was game over and man, screw starting over again. I didn't realize till later that he was awesome if you leveled him up.

Also, I think my second run through, I replayed the first or second battle like 20 times, because I was sick of dying so damn much throughout the game. I miss having enough time to do stupid stuff like that.

Steev

As I said in the VC thread, I started playing this again the other day. I just beat the circus area and my highest level character is 10. Back when I first played the game, I think the highest level character I had before I promoted him was around 15. This time I intend on waiting until level 20 to promote.

I was amazed when reading user reviews at gamefaqs the other day that people gave the game bad reviews because it supposedly ripped Fire Emblem off.

Here's hoping we get Shining Force II soon...but not too soon! I gotta beat this one again first.

Shining Force CD would also be nice, but it's not as good because it doesn't have the town exploration. Also, I remember the narrator being cheesy.

Monsty

I've rented and played the first two a little bit back in the day. I have bought the original on the VC, but haven't started it yet.

Although I never got very far in either of them, I've always looked upon them fondly. I really need to start #1 up!

So it seems getting to level 20 before promoting is the best way to go stat-wise. Does that work out for pretty much every character? Basically, I want to destroy everything when I play. At least the first time around.

DanHibiki

I liked SF2 better then the first. It just had more stuff in it and was not over done.

Slade was a great addition to the cast, he's fast has a fairly good attack and can cast some spells. He becomes great once you give him the guisarme and you can watch him slice enemies in half.

The other characters are fairly similar to the older game but have the benefit of having a third upgrade path. If you're l33t enough you can get a lot of Sorcerers on your team, turn those dwarves in to Gladiators and some of your useless healers in to Monks.

Oh and of course there's my favorite suicidal Vampire Lemon!

Steev

Yeah, it sounds like waiting until 20 to promote is the way to go if you want to crush everything in your path.

Also, Bleu the Dragon apparently kicks ass at later levels. I remember him sucking in the earlier levels, and I had promoted him really early, so he never really had time to develop.

Sheep

SF threads only serve to remind me that SEGA intends to cannibalize the series and toss it's bones next to Sonics.

Psykmoe

I recently got this from the VC and it's great fun, though I've hardly hat time to play. So this is like Fire Emblem in that it's better to max out people's level before promoting them so their stats are better? That'll be useful to know. I never played a Shining Force game before.

Edit: What exactly does the 'Land Effect' mean in a fight? It's on one of the screenshots up there also. I assumed it's a bonus to dodging attacks, is that true?

Lykouragh

Gametap has this, for those of us that are Wiiless.

I love the plot and mechanics of SF. The interface, however, can bite me. Particularly the inventory interface.

overdriveGTO

The lack of a translation for Shining Force 3 episodes 2&3 is one of the biggest video game related tragedies of all time.

Shining Force 1 was awesome. Shining Force 2 took everything awesome about the original and made it better. Shining Force 3 surpassed 2 in every way. I am still sad I will never get to finish SF3.

UncleSporky

SteevL wrote: »

Yeah, it sounds like waiting until 20 to promote is the way to go if you want to crush everything in your path.

Also, Bleu the Dragon apparently kicks ass at later levels. I remember him sucking in the earlier levels, and I had promoted him really early, so he never really had time to develop.

Yeah, I've heard this too. One of those other late bloomers that require a big investment to get going. For some reason I never messed with the little guy, though.

Psykmoe wrote: »

I recently got this from the VC and it's great fun, though I've hardly hat time to play. So this is like Fire Emblem in that it's better to max out people's level before promoting them so their stats are better? That'll be useful to know. I never played a Shining Force game before.

Edit: What exactly does the 'Land Effect' mean in a fight? It's on one of the screenshots up there also. I assumed it's a bonus to dodging attacks, is that true?

Yeah, it's best to get them to 20 first, but it takes a long time.

And as far as I know, land effect adds its percentage to your defense. This is a guide about it for SF2 which shouldn't be too different from the first one.

themocaw

Shining Force 2's Sarah was one of the first video game characters I ever had a crush on.


I mean, her character portrait is cute enough, but then when you promote her to Master Monk. . .



Yowsas.

Oh yeah, and she could heal your party and blast the enemy with tornados. Freaking Tornados, man.

I know, everyone says Karna is the better healer because she has BOOST instead of SLOW and AURA instead of DETOX. They can suck it. Karna can become a Vicar and swing her little wand around and cast spells on people like Sarah, who beat the shit out of the enemy with awesome high kicks.

Steev

Lykouragh wrote: »

Gametap has this, for those of us that are Wiiless.

I love the plot and mechanics of SF. The interface, however, can bite me. Particularly the inventory interface.

This is one of the hardest things to get used to again. Does anyone know if Shining Force II switched to a communal-style inventory?

Also, re: land effects: Land effects affect your characters' movement, although not the ones that can fly. I think they also affect how much damage you receive when you get hit, but I'm not sure.


EDIT: Also, there's a guide at gamefaqs on doing a Max-only playthrough. Insane.

Xenogears of Bore

urahonky wrote: »

Oh man, this is a great series. The only thing close to it is Fire Emblem. But FE is pretty unforgiving.

More like the only thing close to Fire Emblem is this series.

I do really like SF though, namely the Camelot ones. SF 2 in particular, can't wait for that to hit VC.

God bless Camelot though, same font and stupid emoticons for how long?

All the new ones are a disgrace.

KKprofit

Two of favorite games ever. Carry on.

Kris_xK

WOO!

I love the SRPG love in this forum lately.

SF was the first SRPG I ever played too, it kicks ass. I'm noticing a lot of comments about VC, is the SF series (or atleast the first two, the rest were shit) available on the Wii now?

urahonky

The first one is. Hopefully the second will be soon.

Steel Angel

themocaw wrote: »

I mean, her character portrait is cute enough, but then when you promote her to Master Monk. . .

Yowsas.

Oh yeah, and she could heal your party and blast the enemy with tornados. Freaking Tornados, man.

I know, everyone says Karna is the better healer because she has BOOST instead of SLOW and AURA instead of DETOX. They can suck it. Karna can become a Vicar and swing her little wand around and cast spells on people like Sarah, who beat the shit out of the enemy with awesome high kicks.

Thankfully there are two monk promotion items so you can get a total of 3 Master Monks in SF2. One does wonder where Sarah's and Karna's hair go after promotion though . . .

SteevL wrote: »

This is one of the hardest things to get used to again. Does anyone know if Shining Force II switched to a communal-style inventory?

Kinda. Eventually you get a wagon of sorts that serves as a mobile HQ, including a place to store items. Until you get it, you still have to just toss stuff onto characters you're not using.

Kris_xK

Ugh, like I needed another reason to get a Wii

DanHibiki

themocaw wrote: »

Shining Force 2's Sarah was one of the first video game characters I ever had a crush on.


I mean, her character portrait is cute enough, but then when you promote her to Master Monk. . .



Yowsas.

Oh yeah, and she could heal your party and blast the enemy with tornados. Freaking Tornados, man.

I know, everyone says Karna is the better healer because she has BOOST instead of SLOW and AURA instead of DETOX. They can suck it. Karna can become a Vicar and swing her little wand around and cast spells on people like Sarah, who beat the shit out of the enemy with awesome high kicks.

you're missing the point of BOOST. When cast on party members boost gives the caster experience and un-like other spells (like heal) there are no strings attached, so you can just keep casting it at multiple people on your team over and over and gain XP. As a result her levels skyrocket and she generally becomes the highest level character in your group very fast.

Sheep

I wish Shining Force III Scenarios 2 and 3 were localized. The graphics got better with each release, in game and FMV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jGk7OYqu1A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXHwI1Zls0k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vbLNh9SlKQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APbxjEkju5g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUGVTxh9Sq0

themocaw

DanHibiki wrote: »

You're missing the point of BOOST. When cast on party members boost gives the caster experience and un-like other spells (like heal) there are no strings attached, so you can just keep casting it at multiple people on your team over and over and gain XP. As a result her levels skyrocket and she generally becomes the highest level character in your group very fast.

No, I get the point of BOOST, I just have an irrational affection for Sarah over Karna. :P And I had no idea that there were TWO Vigor Balls in this game. Shit, now I gotta go find an FAQ or a Walkthrough and replay the game with Bowie the Pimp and his squad of scantily clad Master Monk Angels.

Burnage

DanHibiki wrote: »

you're missing the point of BOOST. When cast on party members boost gives the caster experience and un-like other spells (like heal) there are no strings attached, so you can just keep casting it at multiple people on your team over and over and gain XP. As a result her levels skyrocket and she generally becomes the highest level character in your group very fast.

Doesn't that work for all the healing spells? I remember in Shining Force, my healers were normally horribly underpowered because using spells gave out bugger all experience. In Shining Force 2 my three Monks were like a walking tank platoon.

I also wanted to hit my main character in SF2 for

winding up with the Princess instead of Sarah. You made her cry you bastard.

themocaw

Burnage wrote: »

DanHibiki wrote: »

you're missing the point of BOOST. When cast on party members boost gives the caster experience and un-like other spells (like heal) there are no strings attached, so you can just keep casting it at multiple people on your team over and over and gain XP. As a result her levels skyrocket and she generally becomes the highest level character in your group very fast.

Doesn't that work for all the healing spells? I remember in Shining Force, my healers were normally horribly underpowered because using spells gave out bugger all experience. In Shining Force 2 my three Monks were like a walking tank platoon.

I also wanted to hit my main character in SF2 for

winding up with the Princess instead of Sarah. You made her cry you bastard.

One does have to admit that Princess Elle was pretty cute, but honestly, she wasn't nearly as awesome as Sarah the two-fisted priestess. Come on, what did Elle do aside from get kidnapped and take a long nap? Sarah was at your side through thick and thin, AND she told off Slade for being a selfish bastard who caused all this trouble to begin with.

Besides, Princess Elle never went around in a bikini top and loincloth >_>

DanHibiki

Burnage wrote: »

DanHibiki wrote: »

you're missing the point of BOOST. When cast on party members boost gives the caster experience and un-like other spells (like heal) there are no strings attached, so you can just keep casting it at multiple people on your team over and over and gain XP. As a result her levels skyrocket and she generally becomes the highest level character in your group very fast.

Doesn't that work for all the healing spells? I remember in Shining Force, my healers were normally horribly underpowered because using spells gave out bugger all experience. In Shining Force 2 my three Monks were like a walking tank platoon.

I also wanted to hit my main character in SF2 for

winding up with the Princess instead of Sarah. You made her cry you bastard.

nope. All healing spells rely on the amount of hit points you heal to yield XP. Boost just gives you XP if you've cast it on a person, and with it effecting multiple people at once you get a ton of XP.

themocaw

DanHibiki wrote: »

nope. All healing spells rely on the amount of hit points you heal to yield XP. Boost just gives you XP if you've cast it on a person, and with it effecting multiple people at once you get a ton of XP.

As I recall, you need to cast BOOST on someone who doesn't have it already to get the XP, but that's usually not hard given that it lasts, like, three turns at most.

Xeno

I LOVE slade because he suprises the ever living shit out of you.


"FUCK YOU SLADE YOU WORTHLESS RAT SHIT. FUCKING DAGGER? YOU FUCKING SUCK ASSHOLE. Ohhh a ninja! Big fucking whoop. You probably still suc..............he just cut the guy in half....."

Plus Peter was just an uber character throughout the whole game. Who the fuck ever switched him out? Seriously.

Shining Force 2 btw.

themocaw

Xeno wrote: »

I LOVE slade because he suprises the ever living shit out of you.


"FUCK YOU SLADE YOU WORTHLESS RAT SHIT. FUCKING DAGGER? YOU FUCKING SUCK ASSHOLE. Ohhh a ninja! Big fucking whoop. You probably still suc..............he just cut the guy in half....."

Plus Peter was just an uber character throughout the whole game. Who the fuck ever switched him out? Seriously.

Shining Force 2 btw.

Dude, the moment Slade put on the black hood, I knew that leveling him up was a GREAT idea. I didn't even need to see him in combat. He's a FRICKIN' NINJA.

And Peter makes the game into easy mode. Without him, some of the levels get surprisingly hard. Especially that damn Kraken.

Pb

In Shining Force 1, by the numbers Hans is the worst of the archers, but that motherfucker never left my party. There were so many instances where the Hero was going to die unless Hans got a crit and he always seemed to get that crit and save the day. I loved Hans. I would also kill every single person in this thread to get Shining Force 3 on a portable.

Nothing personal.

skace

The thing that pisses me off about Shining Force is that it should have been outdone by this point but it hasn't. What the fuck. It was made years ago goddamnit.

jothki

Lykouragh wrote: »

Gametap has this, for those of us that are Wiiless.

I love the plot and mechanics of SF. The interface, however, can bite me. Particularly the inventory interface.

One button for all actions, one button for a menu. Is that really so hard, past game developers?

Katchem_ash

While I haven't played Shining Force, I have played Shining Tears and have Shining Force EXA and Shining Force Neo.

Frankly, I don't know why Shining Tears is considered bad, I enjoyed it considerably. Granted it wasn't a true SRPG, but its quite similar.

In any case I really wish the newist installment Shining Wind comes out here.

UncleSporky

SteevL wrote: »

Also, re: land effects: Land effects affect your characters' movement, although not the ones that can fly. I think they also affect how much damage you receive when you get hit, but I'm not sure.

I'm pretty sure the percent doesn't have anything to do with movement. I am guessing this based on the first fight of chapter 2, where the desert has 0% land effect and yet everyone's movement is severely hampered. Movement is more affected by race and type of tile, i.e. centaurs have more trouble moving through mountains and woods but characters like Zylo thrive in the woods.

Steev

UncleSporky wrote: »

SteevL wrote: »

Also, re: land effects: Land effects affect your characters' movement, although not the ones that can fly. I think they also affect how much damage you receive when you get hit, but I'm not sure.

I'm pretty sure the percent doesn't have anything to do with movement. I am guessing this based on the first fight of chapter 2, where the desert has 0% land effect and yet everyone's movement is severely hampered. Movement is more affected by race and type of tile, i.e. centaurs have more trouble moving through mountains and woods but characters like Zylo thrive in the woods.

D'oh! You're right.

I can't stand those battles where you have to move at a snail's pace because it's all desert or mountainous.

Blackjack

themocaw wrote: »

I know, everyone says Karna is the better healer because she has BOOST instead of SLOW and AURA instead of DETOX. They can suck it. Karna can become a Vicar and swing her little wand around and cast spells on people like Sarah, who beat the shit out of the enemy with awesome high kicks.

I am right there with you, man.

Also, Kazin. Wizard or Sorcerer?

If you say 'Sorcerer,' you're a retard and also wrong.

Burnage

Fun fact; for 98% of my first run through the game, I thought Kazin was a woman.

MinionOfCthulhu

Ahh, Shining Force. Why does Sega keep taking on the name of this awesome series to terrible games that have little to do with the Shining Forces of old?