Job Offers & Negotiating

Sir Landshark

I'm at work, so this may be a bit concise, but I could use some advice here:

Background: I am graduating this December with my M.S. in Structural Engineering from the #1 program in the U.S. My credentials are overall really good.

I have three Job offers lined up:

A) 53k/year + tons of benefits (health, dental, vision, 401k, etc) in Chicago, IL

62k/year + minimal benefits (health, life, IRA) in Naperville, IL (west of Chicago)

C) 66k/year + tons of benefits (everything A offers plus a total of 18 days paid time off + 6 days sick) (Oakland, CA)


My wife wants to move back to the Midwest, so I had to rule out C, so I am going with B.


My problem is this. When B first made the offer, they said "We don't want money to be the reason you don't come here. We'll put this number (62k) down, but if there's a salary that will bring you over, just tell us. We will beat any other offer by 10%"

Personally, I was overjoyed just to get an offer over 60k. The cost of living in the Midwest is nowhere near the cost of the Bay Area, and I thought 62k was more than fair.

However, my wife wants me to negotiate them up to 65k. I'm tempted, but I think it may be too greedy. Since we already ruled out option C, I don't feel it's fair to use that offer as some sort of leverage. Plus, I already negotiated them into a 3k signing bonus to cover our moving expenses.

The only justification I can think of is 1) It's a salaried position where A and C were both hourly (i.e. no paid overtime). 2) They have minimal benefits, and both my wife and I have dental and vision concerns where insurance would be a big help.

Also, B is a very young and small company (< 3yrs old, <10 people), so I'd really like to start my relationship with the principals off right.

Hope I didn't come off as bragging or anything, I just wanted to get all the relevant info out there.

So, do I negotiate up to 65k or leave it as is? Am I being greedy. Thanks in advance.

DrFrylock

As Vito Corleone says, "Mention it, don’t insist." Mention that you had an offer of $66K in the Bay Area. Don't mention that you ruled it out automatically for personal reasons. If they match it, bully good. If they don't, take the job anyway.

Taterskin

I'd try to negotiate. As long as you give them the chance to give you a new offer I don't see how it could go bad. If they say 62k is the limit, then get back with them the next day after 'thinking' about the other offer.

" but if there's a salary that will bring you over, just tell us. " The fact this was said makes me believe they are willing to negotiate.

Also, don't think you are being too greedy. If you weren't in demand, then they wouldnt be making that offer.

drhazard

Think of that extra $3k as coverage for the benefits you are not getting, and it should be easier.

BlochWave

Well the 3k will get used up in the move.

Use the 66k offer as leverage by all means! It doesn't matter that you're not considering the job(don't tell them that)SOMEBODY thought you were worth that, why shouldn't they? Not only not worth that but with less benefits? Bring them the offer letter. If you wanna seem nice tell them just matching the 66k would be plenty, but it really sounds like as a young company they just didn't know how much to offer you but want you really bad.

Snowcone

I'd also omit the location of offer C. $66k in the bay area is a lot less than $62k in IL. If they don't know the locale of the position, they'll be more likely to match the $66k. Dont lie, just don't be so forthcoming with that info.

mastman

They want you to work for them pretty badly and they expressed it by mentioning that they'll beat any offer by 10%. I think that means a lot coming from a potential employer.

Grifter

They made the offer to negotiate. And really, it's a 3k difference. It's not like you're asking for 10k or something. Definitely mention that you had a bigger offer. It's the truth. Don't mention that you are moving to the Midwest and the CA job is out of the picture. It probably seems a bit underhanded but sometimes you need to do this sort of thing to get a little ahead. Did you ask them about annual bonus? Did you ask them about average annual salary increases? These are also things you need to consider when negotiating your contract.

Djeet

hourly pay vs salary, plus C is giving you 3+ weeks paid vacation and a week of sick days (company B gives you what?)

from my salaried experience, when times are slow, you can get away putting in less than 40 hours, when times are fast I've put in multiple back to back weeks 60-70+ hours per week.

understand that your income growth potential at a company starts at your entry pay, any yearly adjustment is likely to be a percentage of that. so definitely negotiate the highest entry pay you can. don't be nice (don't be a dick either), they'll likely work you like a dog when then need to regardless of how much they are paying you.

regarding vision and dental, I don't know how much correction you and your wife (and perhaps kids, future kids) need, but these expenses pale compared to health insurance claims.

EggyToast

Say you got an offer for 66, and are deciding. Say that you'd like to work for them, but the other place has better benefits. If they beat it by 10%, you win. If they don't, come back with more benefits or some other aspect.

3k is nothing. Asking for 65k is not selfish at all -- it's your JOB. They pay you. They give you money to do work for them. If they think it's fair and will pay that much, awesome. More importantly, if they happily give you more, it's a clear indication that a) they're serious about hiring you and b) it's a healthy company that will likely give you raises in the future, as well.

Think of it this way. They said they'll give you 62, and then said they will pay you more. Why not take them up on the "offer"?

Also, remember that a salary does include benefits, so you could ask for other benefits instead of more money if they end up being obstinate. For instance, ask them to throw in dental and eye coverage. Or ask for more vacation days.

ege02

Keep in mind that if you start with a low salary, the frequency and amount of raises you get tends to be higher. The exact opposite is true if you start with a higher salary. This is true for most companies; exceptions do exist.

It really depends on where on the salary bell-curve you lie in relation to other employees who have similar credentials as you.

Jimmy King

As has been said, go with B and ask them for more money. They appear pretty clearly willing to pay more, take it. They aren't hiring you as a favor to you, they're hiring you because it will benefit them and earn them more money than not hiring you will. Don't treat them like shit, but don't treat them as if they're doing you a favor.

To go with what ege said about raises, though, most employers I've worked for care more about the percentage of raise they give you than the actual dollar amount. A large percentage of not very much is still not very much. I've known plenty of people (and been one) at $30k/year. The employer gives you a 5% raise (if you're lucky you might get 10%) and expects you to be happy because it was a relatively large percentage of your pay for a raise.

As to the benefits as you do seem to like that option A has far better benefits. It really depends on what the benefits are exactly, but I tend to favor pay over benefits. I worked as a contractor for 7 years with no benefits. I'm still alive and healthy. Benefits are great, but with a decent pay difference and intelligent budgeting you can end up with more free money to spend on fun stuff and still have enough put away to make up for the lack of benefits when the doctor bills come. Benefits on the other hand, well, when money gets tight you can't call up the bank you got your mortgage from and say "look, I'm low on cash this month because I don't earn enough. I've got great benefits, though, so how about I give you 3 vacation days and 2 doctors visits covered by my insurance".

Sir Landshark

Thanks for all the great advice everyone.

To follow-up: I called B today and told them I'd drop the other offers and join them for $65k/year. On the other end of the line I hear "I don't think..." and my heart sank, "...that will be a problem." And I could barely contain my excitement. She sounded pretty excited to hire me, saying it was "time to get out the champaigne!" So yeah, thanks to everyone that told me to go for it!

Now to finish up finals and finally be back closer to home!

EggyToast

Now you get to lose sleep over whether you could've gotten more money

BlochWave

Yah, next time it comes up, don't be the one to suggest a number! Maybe you could've said 70 and they would've said no problem, you'll never know! Not that 65k is bad, I'm ballin' on just 50k happily

Blake T

If you try and hardball these people too much and ask for too much they will tell you to take the job in CA if it is so good.

Saying that and extra 3k is not that much in the scheme of things.

Is CA more expensive to live in? Do not be suprised if they use this as a negotiating tool why they can't raise your salary. Expensive cities have expensive jobs simply because you have to spend so much money just to live that.

Ask them if they are willing to match rather than going 10%+ it will be a nice offer on your part and you will get everything you want.

Apothe0sis

Am I the only one who thinks the benefits are equivalent to a fair amount of money as it stands? Even adjusting for costs of living I would be hesitant to ignore the many benefits on offer...

PeekingDuck

66 isn't very much in Cal. You made the right decision!