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Fighting Games..help
MarkyX
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
It's been a long time since I've played fighting games. The last one I was religiously into would be Killer Instinct. The last Street Fighter was SF2T. I never even touched the Marvel vs Capcom or SF3 in the arcades.
I recently got myself SF anniversary edition for the XBOX and I'm really surprised how well SF3:3rd Strike is. But, I want something a little more recent then a ten year old game. I could easily get myself Cap vs SNK as well, if I want more 2D fighting games from the past.
So my question is, is VF5 a good game to play online? I heard stories where you will get your ass kicked if you're new, but I want something that others are playing and fun to play both casually and hardcore.
I recently got myself SF anniversary edition for the XBOX and I'm really surprised how well SF3:3rd Strike is. But, I want something a little more recent then a ten year old game. I could easily get myself Cap vs SNK as well, if I want more 2D fighting games from the past.
So my question is, is VF5 a good game to play online? I heard stories where you will get your ass kicked if you're new, but I want something that others are playing and fun to play both casually and hardcore.
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By all accounts, it is worth it.
It has netplay that doesn't totally suck, in that it generally works fine but has some niggling issues.
The game is good looking, has approximately a hojillion moves but only 3 buttons, and is current (as you said).
At lower levels of play, victory can seem somewhat random because the damage is so high, blocking must be done with the block button, and many things can ONLY be blocked high or low (as opposed to SF, where most things can be blocked BOTH high or low).
The better players will absolutely kick your ass, but that's pretty much the way it is with any good fighting game.
If you want to move up to a more competitive level of play, be prepared to do quite a lot of reading and learning of nomenclature. The game lacks the comprehensive tutorial of the previous VF4, so unless you get in touch with more knowledgeable players online, you will have to figure this out on your own/the hard way.
The online component is hit or miss. When you can get into a match it runs great, but getting into one will take numerous attempts due to the matchmaking system being somewhat unreliable.
Overall if you want a good looking fighter that is online capable VF5 certainly fits the bill, just don't expect to be able to stab face the first time you pick it up.
The fighting itself is great. The netcode is practically flawless. I've had matches with quite distant opponents with 0 lag. However, the menus you have to navigate to actually get into fights are pretty terrible.
If you want to learn more about VF5 chat up anybody here (especially Ketherial). Friend me up on 360, and I'll tell you what little I know.
The problem I find is the game itself. I never really followed the Tekken or VF5 franchise, and after playing this for a few hours, I can plainly see why. There is way too many moves to memorize and the combos are a bit over-the-top. You can't really expect to even play defense well in this game because the series of attacks will result in at least one of them being a hit because of the high/med/low system.
I think I can see why the SF series has always been loved. Their games are much easier to get into it, but still have some sort high-end competitive gameplay.
Although I seriously love El Blaze. He does kick ass. Too bad everyone online has to use Brad.
Might as well just get Accent Core if you've a ps2 or a Wii.
I second Guilty Gear though it might be a little off putting at first when you're not used to it but it's got a interesting diverse cast, great music, fast paced fights and stylish as hell.
Asharaxx and I will kick your ass via (nearly lagless) netplay whenever you want.
Anything new about Actress Again?
Have you read about Fate Unlimited Codes location test impressions? It sounds alright actually.
I don't think there are any actual differences besides the xbox version having netplay but the ps2 would be what id go for just for the controller
No online play, though.
Want to play the best fighting game ever made? Yeah, get it.
unfortunately, vf5 is ridiculously and unapologetically complex. like templewulf said, the learning curve is nearly vertical.
if you dont want to dedicate time to study and learn the game, then you should pretty much stay away. it is purely for the most hardcore of the hardcore. i would never recommend it to a casual player who just wants to have fun. it will turn out to be more frustrating than anything.
that being said, if you do have the time, it is the best, most logical, most balanced and strategic fighter ever made, bar none.
I played VF4 for a while on ps2 and traded it in a few months later because it at good trade-in value. I played mostly by myself and once in a while with my friends. I never was able to get good at it. I knew the game was complex but I had no idea how to learn and improve. I guess I just didn't "get it".
Battle.net: Fireflash#1425
Steam Friend code: 45386507
Stop right there and go play Marvel vs. Capcom 2. Get a Dreamcast if you have to.
Prepare for the real Street Fighter blood war
The third of the third, prepare to die for
Your life's on the line so I'ma take yours
So who wanna blood dance with me?
Get your body wrapped up or you ????? street fantasy
In the square yo you best to beware
Street Fighter we ain't playin over there
One on one kid you know you get finished
?????????? so come and get with it
Your heart ain't close so forget about the power
Battle this style to the 24th hour
Pay the price that you could't deal with
Cold blooded killers in my LockDown click
Got no time to waste, we tickin time bombs
Street Fighter 3 like this scar on my arm
Yo make your first move, so what's in gon' be?
You're trapped in the new world of Street Fighter 3
The 3rd chapter so what's it gon' be?
You're trapped in the new world of Street Fighter 3
Make your first move, so what's in gon' be?
You're trapped in the new world of Street Fighter 3
The 3rd chapter so what's it gon' be?
You're trapped in the new world of Street Fighter 3
Yo rock what you got. Block what you shot
Another chapter and what you get is what you got
'Nuff warriors here to fight, choose one
The best of the best will be the champion
Whose world is this after all?
Capcom living with LockDown forever y'all
?????? sees the violence and death
?????? so ain't ready yet
If a pack they ain't ready step up with all you got
With the fighters who ain't ready take your regular
spot
So what? Come down before it's too late to stop
Tryin to front like you was kids of the block
Step too close kid you might get shot
Only one master's goin straight to the top
One false move your whole game gets blocked
Only one master's goin straight to the top
Yeah, yo
You're about to get your life with something you wish
you wouldn't
It's too late, you gotta borrow what you wish you
couldn't
Pass the first stage, you thought you could live it
Now you just realized you never could survive it
Dealin with cold blooded assassinators
Decapitate your body give the food to alligators
You needa put your power over here it's much greater
It's either you push start or try again later
It's all about the confidence bet they don't cater
You got no time to talk to the player haters
I guess on ?? kid will leave your body critical
Talkin bout real street thugs and big criminals
Now you're helpless all the way to the finish
Where you can practice, come back and get with it
You can't bite my hits, the sky's no limit
Anything distant yo it's Infinite
Make your first move, so what's in gon' be?
You're trapped in the new world of Street Fighter 3
The 3rd chapter so what's it gon' be?
You're trapped in the new world of Street Fighter 3
Make your first move, so what's in gon' be?
You're trapped in the new world of Street Fighter 3
The 3rd chapter so what's it gon' be?
You're trapped in the new world of Street Fighter 3
Yo make your first move, so what's in gon' be?
You're trapped in the new world of Street Fighter 3
Fight for the future, so what's it gon' be?
The 3rd strike y'all it's Street Fighter 3
Make your first move, so what's in gon' be?
You're trapped in the new world of Street Fighter 3
Fight for the future, so what's it gon' be?
The 3rd strike y'all it's Street Fighter
Nope on both accounts. *shrug*
http://www.akiba-ch.com/?p=356#more-356
May turn out to be quite good. Apparently feels like a 3D Guilty Gear.
We are of the same mind.
the problem with vf is that although it's logical, it's not necessarily "intuitive".
by that i mean that every single action in the game has consequences that dont always make sense when you just play, but when you actually think about it, make perfect sense.
for example, forward dashing and back dashing have very, very different properties. because vf wants to encourage aggressive play, forward dashing has generally lower risk properties (faster recovery, easily cancelled) but back dashing has very high risk properties (long recovery, easily hit out of, not as many ways to cancel).
other instances of logical but somewhat non-intuitive gameplay is the risk reward set up. most people who are used to playing 2d fighters are accustomed to generally low risk moves that never give an opponent guaranteed damage. even if you block your opponent's fierce punch or kick, you are hardly ever guaranteed damage. however, it's totally different in vf. low risk moves only give low risk, shitty rewards. high risk moves grant great damage or potential for combos, but leave you open if blocked. again, this is totally different from the way almost all 2d fighters are.
in order to be able to play and enjoy vf, you absolutely must study the system. otherwise, you will simply not enjoy yourself. it's like trying to play starcraft or warcraft but not knowing what a hotkey is or how to gather gold or not knowing how to attack-click or cast spells. it simply will not work and you just wont enjoy it.
and this is all further complicated by the fact that there is no tutorial in vf5, and even the tutorial in vf4:evo was not "enjoyable". the tutorials in most games act as part of the game - they break you in slowly. vf doesnt do that at all. that's why it's so damn hard to get into.
However, the Guilty Gear series has been my new found love. I remember when there were all kinds of fighting games. Fighter's History, World Heroes (2), Killer Instinct, Golden Axe - The Duel, Fighter's Destiny, Flying Dragon and Samurai Showdown were amoung some of my favorites.
Personally, I think we're lacking the fighters nowadays and they've been replaced with shooters. "Wii nEd moar br@wlrz!"
I haven't played VF5 online yet, but I have played DOA4 online, and I have a very healthy mistrust for XBL and the lag surrounding it. I wouldn't expect to get anything more than a "good' match against a "good" player. Anything above a certain level would just not be facilitated by the pings involved. Sometimes you have to really pay attention, but the lag is there. It may be more obvious in DOA4, because of the timing needed for reversals, but I know must be all over VF5.
I mean, VF is a good series, but it's not nearly as nice to look at as it should be. And the damage is kind of weak, compared to other current 3d fighters. Actually, VF's damage has been in a steady decline since VF2, with VF3 being the last one where it was actually significant. Compared to 3, VF5 is an absolute spam-fest.
For 2d fighters I'd go with KOF, with maybe a few other random 2d fighters if you can get your hands on them. The KOF series has a cast large enough that you're certain to find a few characters that you like, and the fighting system is easily accessible, intuitive and satisfying. Just don't be surprised if one of your characters disappears from one game to the next.
Guilty Gear is nice in theory, but the game bogs down quickly, and the characters are just bad. Of course, that's just my opinion. If you like the characters then go for it.
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-Get VF5 for 360. I'm not giving you an option here. I've played most every 3D fighter there is, from Evil Zone through T5: Dark Resurrection. VF5 ver.C (the one on 360) is quite easily the best 3D fighter ever made and it ranks up there easily with Street Fighter 4: Third Strike and Garou: Mark of the Wolves as one of the best fighting games ever made, period. Yes, it's got a steep learning curve and you'll need to really sit down and learn the game, but that's partially why it's online. Friend me (LibThorne40k) or TempleWulf and we can help you learn the game.
-Get KOF2006. Yes, it's a 3D King Of Fighters. However, the fighting system is easily the best out of any KOF game I've played (99-XI). It has parries, single fights that don't suck, 3 on 3 fights, a cast that reads like a greatest hits of SNK history, cosplaying, and is one of the very, very few SNK games that doesn't have a boss from the capital of Rapeonia.
-Get Street Fighter Anniversary Collection and the Alpha Anthology. Whilst not directed so much at the OP, these are fantastic collections. Alpha Anthology has SFA, SFA2, SFA2 Gold, SFA3, and SFA3 Upper, the arcade revision, as well as Pocket Fighter. In addition to all that, if you beat arcade mode in all games (which is a right hard bastard thing to do in the unlocked SFA3 Upper) you unlock the ability to pit different character sprites against each other. What I mean is, any game that used an Alpha sprite for a character (the Alpha games, as well as the Vs. games like Marvel Vs. Capcom and Capcom Vs. SNK) you can use that version of a character. Sort of like SF2 Anniversary. The Anniversary Collection needs no explanation, as it contains the two finest 2D fighting games ever made by Capcom.
-Soul Calibur and Tekken suck for the same reason, and that reason is that Namco has a horrid understanding of balancing out tiers. Especially in SC2, but only slightly less so in SC3, high tier characters are quite simply ludicrously better than mid and low tier characters. If you like seeing the same 3 or 4 characters again and again, go for it, but one of the reasons I recommend VF5 so highly is that while it does have a tier system the difference in tiers is very much razor thin and mid/low tier characters in the hands of an excellent player can absolutely crush high tier characters.
-To all the people recommending Guilty Gear, you know it's the most complicated 2D fighter out there, right? Don't get me wrong, I love the XX series as well, but I'd never recommend it for someone getting into the genre as it's almost as complicated as the Virtua Fighter series. I've been playing fighting games since I played SF2:WW in '91 and I still can't grasp higher level Guilty Gear play. Not to mention the inputs are harder than KOF's, which is saying something.
-Also, DOA as a series is a joke. There's a reason it got booted out of Evolution play, and that reason is that the system is wildly unbalanced at a fundamental level. While it looks pretty it has none of the depth necessary to be, in my opinion, an excellent fighting game.
@Page: VF5 is lagless. Period, end of story. Actually, okay, I had bad lag once. I was palying a dude in Britain while simultaneously torrenting an anime series, and at that point the connection was awful. I stopped the torrent, and the connection went back to rocking my face off.
And I'll take issue with some of the other things you've said. Tekken, fine. I hate Tekken as much as anyone, but SC is a fine series, and I got the impression that the OP was looking to ease himself back into fighting games, not dive into the middle of the Pacific, which is what saying "just play VF5" is like. And DOA may have some balance issues (though I still haven't found a convincing argument for that), but the gameplay is fast and fun, and that's what games are for.
Couldn't stand the 3d KOF games. Just horrible, IMO. And Street Fighter games are mostly just poke-fests nowadays.
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Marvel vs. Capcom 2 is an excellent fighter, and is very good practice if you can play against the CPU, but versus an experienced player you get the same situation as Tekken (though it takes longer).
I guess what game to recommend to the OP depends on what he wants and how easily he'll pick up the skills. Maybe you're right to tell him to wait on VF5, but I really don't think recommending DoA4 is the solution. It's particularly awful.
For beginners I would recommend: Soul Calibur 2, Marvel Vs. Capcom 2, Tekken 5
For intermediate and up: Street Fighter 3: 3S, Virtua Fighter 5, Guilty Gear (anything non-Isuka)
For experts: Any of that nutty hyper-anime doujinshi super fighter stuff. Seriously, even I don't pretend to know how to play those.
He is constantly putting the que balls into the air, making it impossible to approach him with slow characters, then if you do get close he has almost perfect blocking, I think I can get one or two hits in through out 2-4 fights, and even if I get a hit, he just comes back with an 11-14 hit combo of assrapery. Its on a whole different level then I ever play, but at the same time its exciting since I get to try and improve my skills.
That being said, its nice to have a real arcade group to play against, all my friends are generally terrible at fighting games to the point I don't even ask if they want to play me, Smash Bro's is the only thing they will play since htey can get lucky with button mashing and items.
First, what I mean by "hidden" is that it doesn't always chunk up, like you'd expect with lag. Sometimes you have to really pay attention to catch exactly what the lag is doing to you, but when you're thinking, "I did that right," or, "I escaped that/reversed that/blocked that," chances are that lag could be involved. I'm obviously using DOA4 as my reference point for this, but I don't think VF5 would be very much different. Maybe you've been lucky to play exclusively with people living right next to you. That being said, I still think it looks like a good game; I'd be playing it right now if I had a stick and a copy of the game. Heck, I'm tempted to just go rent a copy and play it with the shitty 360 pad. Elbow, knee, pounce isn't that hard to pull off.
And I've played some of those doujin fighters. They may look complex, but usually underneath the surface is a very broken game. I'd stay away, unless you have someone else to play with. Same with Marvel vs Capcom 2. How can you say DOA4 is bad and then recommend that?
DOA4 is not the pinnacle of 3d fighters, but it has most of the things you need, and it will teach all the basics. On top of that, it's immediately engaging and has enough variety to last. Playing it is fun. Though, I mostly still play DOA2.
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And that's exactly what I like about the Guilty Gear games. You could take 5 different people and have them play with the same character and see 5 different styles of play with that one character.
I once played online with a guy after I found out that Guilty Gear X2: Reloaded was Backwards Compatible. We both picked Sol Badguy and while I'm a frontal assault type, he was an all aerial type. All his attacks start in the air and end in the air. I was really impressed that none of his combos matched mine at all.
Also, believe it or not, I've logged 100+ hours into Guilty Gear X2 and still didn't know -jack- about dead angles -or- roman cancels. I could dust I-no off any day of the week on Maniac mode as well as get up to 200+ levels in Survival mode, yet I didn't even know how to pull off a roman cancel or do a dead angle. I didn't even use the duster that much. The guy I played took -full- advantage of those moves. After which I asked him how to do them and he was surprised I didn't know how to do them.
It's really diverse.. to say the least.
that being said, i think page's recommending doa is totally reasonable in this situation. the op seems to be looking for flashiness and ease of use. vf is neither of these things.
the doa games are great for casual players who dont care that much about balance. personally i think the character designs are mostly terrible (with a few exceptions), but that's just me.
Also, MvC2 at a competitive level is not only wtf broke but also ludicrously difficult. Easier than Guilty Gear, sure, but the Sent/Mags/Storm stuff is just insanely hard to do. However, if the OP's not playing at a competitive level, MvC2 is a fine little system.
Page, KOF:MI sucked ass. I'll agree with that, as it was a really inferior game to the 2D KOFs at the time. KOF2006 has a totally redone system, a cast that's almost three times larger (20 somehting chars in KOF:MI, 54 or so in KOF2006), and is just fucking fun. In my opinion, it's got a much better fighting system than KOFXI does, and by a not inconsiderable margin.
I didn't play KOF:MI, only KOF2k6, and that game was not good. I did love KOFXI, though, and thought the system was just great. But I have a soft spot for 2d fighters.
And could you please explain to me what's so unbalanced about DOA? I would never say it's a great game, but it's perfectly playable and perfectly balanced, IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. No masher will ever, ever win against someone who knows what's going on in that game. The losses will be so horrible, too.
Hell, there used to be a DOA2 machine at the an arcade in town years back, and I was only pretty good at the game then. I spent 4 hours on one quarter just beating the shit out of newbs one afternoon, the only time I lost was on purpose, and that was just so that I could switch characters. After that nobody would play the game again and the took the machine away.
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