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Safety & Emissions
Snackbar
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
H/A, I have questions. I know you got the answers. Here's the situation:
My brother bought an '89 Honda CRX for me back in February. The previous owner had already done safety and emissions on it, so I just had to get it registered/pay taxes. It's been a year and I needed to get this done once more.
A buddy of mine's parents own a private car dealership and take all their cars to Big O Tires for their S&E, and my buddy had me under the impression that he could hook up a discount for this. Turns out it was a standard price, which is fine, but I feel like the guys that inspected my car are full of shit.
First off, they say that my car has no catalytic converter (which it does and I have the previous years emissions test to prove it, as well as, y'know, looking under the car) and that the gas cap is "N/A---FAIL." It most definitely does have a gas cap, and is plenty difficult to open and hisses when you do, so I suspect there's nothing wrong with the seal.
Second, they failed the steering/suspension and exhaust system. They wrote "ball joints," "tie rods," and "trailer bushings." Not sure why the exhaust system failed, but I can call this number on the paper to find out.
So, my question is, can I somehow contest the accuracy of their test? Maybe take it to another mechanic for a "second opinion" and, should their inspection be inconsistent, waive the charges from Big O? Is there a database or something they run your car through before doing S&E to see if it's already passed/failed, or will another mechanic be none-the-wiser about it's previous rejection?
I feel like they're screwing me over here and I don't particularly like it, since it's taken me off the road. The steering/suspension and exhaust may very well be legitimate concerns, and I'm fine with having those fixed, but I know the emissions stuff is bull. Any advice for me here, H/A?
My brother bought an '89 Honda CRX for me back in February. The previous owner had already done safety and emissions on it, so I just had to get it registered/pay taxes. It's been a year and I needed to get this done once more.
A buddy of mine's parents own a private car dealership and take all their cars to Big O Tires for their S&E, and my buddy had me under the impression that he could hook up a discount for this. Turns out it was a standard price, which is fine, but I feel like the guys that inspected my car are full of shit.
First off, they say that my car has no catalytic converter (which it does and I have the previous years emissions test to prove it, as well as, y'know, looking under the car) and that the gas cap is "N/A---FAIL." It most definitely does have a gas cap, and is plenty difficult to open and hisses when you do, so I suspect there's nothing wrong with the seal.
Second, they failed the steering/suspension and exhaust system. They wrote "ball joints," "tie rods," and "trailer bushings." Not sure why the exhaust system failed, but I can call this number on the paper to find out.
So, my question is, can I somehow contest the accuracy of their test? Maybe take it to another mechanic for a "second opinion" and, should their inspection be inconsistent, waive the charges from Big O? Is there a database or something they run your car through before doing S&E to see if it's already passed/failed, or will another mechanic be none-the-wiser about it's previous rejection?
I feel like they're screwing me over here and I don't particularly like it, since it's taken me off the road. The steering/suspension and exhaust may very well be legitimate concerns, and I'm fine with having those fixed, but I know the emissions stuff is bull. Any advice for me here, H/A?
Destroy what destroys you.
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Okay so an 89 CRX for goddamn sure has a catalytic converter factory equipped. If the vehicle passed the actual emissions test it's pretty much guaranteed to have a working cat on it, as the emissions are usually about 10x the limit otherwise.
Do you have a set of headers on the car? IIRC the cat is built into the exhaust manifold on that model, your standard set of headers moves it further downstream to underneath the engine. Maybe they just missed it?
I'm not sure what to make of the gas cap portion. You say it's on the car... so... they shouldn't have failed it. Does it actually say 'fuel restrictor', not 'fuel cap'? The restrictor is what stops you from putting a leaded gas nozzle in there, leaded nozzles are about 60% thicker than unleaded. Sometimes people pull them off for some reason.
As for the suspension stuff, it's very possible that those parts need to be replaced. Get them checked at a reputable shop.
Google takes me to this, which tells us:
I'm a smog technician in California, and whenever someone asks me a question like this, the first thing I tell them is to go to another shop and pay for a second test. If you get the same results, well, tests aren't really all that expensive. If, on the other hand, they pass it, then you can complain to the state. (In your case using the number above)
If you're not in New York, please tell me where you are, I might be able to get some more info for ya, but basically it sounds like those guys are dicking you around.
What you say about the catalytic converter is basically what I figured. Since it passed emissions last year, and we haven't taken off the cat and is sure has hell hasn't been somehow stolen (ha), I figure it must have the converter. I'd say there's no more debate that matter.
The S&A results page says "Gas Cap: N/A" and has a line drawn to it in pen that says "Fail." As far as I know, there's no ambiguity with the term "gas cap." That is the cap you open to put fuel into your vehicle, yes? I was told it may be that the seal is going bad on the gas cap, but like I said, it is difficult to open and hisses when you do, so that should indicate a solid seal, right?
I plan on taking the car down to the mechanic my parents trust with their auto troubles (seems to be a trustworthy establishment, by my estimation) to check out the suspension business. I could see some of this actually being a problem, since we recently replaced the clutch system on the car in our home garage. It involved messing with all that stuff and some things may have gone amiss during that operation.
We have a coupon for S&E at the aforementioned trusted mechanic shop, so it would only cost about $25, I think, for that second opinion. This seems like the most reasonable thing to do, if things don't pan out with Big O after I have the suspension checked out. I was just curious if they would have some type of problem testing it, since it recently failed. I guess that's not a concern?
Thanks for the tips so far.
Shogun Streams Vidya
Texas does S&E also. Less picky if you're out in the sticks, stricter if you're in a major metro area. But even the strict tests & inspections don't call for anything like...
They checked steering/suspension as part of S&E? I've lived in Iowa, Kentucky, and Texas (DFW), and none of them took the safety checks that far. Your state either has really anal inspection requirements, or those guys didn't know what they were doing / were jerking you around.
Since it's an '89, those parts probably are worn and could use replacement, I'm just surprised that it caused you to fail a safety inspection, because I haven't heard of them being that intense. Where I've lived, those things are just the driver's responsibility to keep in decent shape if you want your car to work well and last.
Did you replace them yourself, and if so, approximately how long of an operation was it? I know a few car savvy people (I'm not really a car guy, myself) that could help me out with that, so it's a definite possibility.
Hmm... lemme see here... Yes the gas cap refers to exactly that. In CA we do a pressure test on them. Probably do the same thing there but who knows.
Utah's auto repair dealer complaint form is here: http://tax.utah.gov/forms/current/tc-451.pdf?
Look on the inspection report. When I do one, I sign it certifying 'under penalty of perjury that it is complete and truthful' or somesuch. Does yours say that? It's a no-no to hand write additions on.
I'd say almost certainly the shop fucked up somehow on those counts. Take it to the other guy.
Do NOT do this unless you know what you are doing. While they are not difficult to replace, if you fuck up, you could very well find out you fucked up by wrecking your car and possibly dying or killing someone. I strongly urge you to avoid teaching yourself how to do it, if you want to do it on your own have someone show you. Same for your brakes; while it isn't hard to do, if you fuck up, there are serious fucking consequences, and it really isn't worth saving $50 at the risk of that.
That said, if you know someone that does know what they are doing, they are not hard to do on your own and it is MUCH cheaper. And nothing is quite as awesome as fixing your car yourself and having it turn out better.
For reference, in CA we only do a brake & headlamp check if you need an 'initial' (meaning you don't have a license plate) inspection. Otherwise we stick to a very strict emissions test. It's crazy, we have the strictest emissions test but don't care one bit if your brakes work.
Generally CA is said to be one of the strictest, it sounds like Utah is tough too.
Normally this would be true, but there's an assumption involved. See, if the previous owner was modifying the car at all, trying to give it a few more hp, he may have waited until he passed the inspection, and then removed the catalytic converter (because who's going to know the difference for at least a year? and when the next inspection comes due, he could put it back in again temporarily). So, I suggest making sure 100% that a cat is there, rather than going on expectations.
That shouldn't be a problem. Normally there is no 'database of failedness' for them to check and see what your last test results were. I can't think of a good reason to have one anywhere, really. They owe you a fair shake every time you come in. You can keep getting the car tested until you pass or get frustrated enough to pull all your hair out, whichever comes first.
Your best bet here is to not tell them anything about the previous test. Don't mention that you already had it tested until after the results from the new one are in, that way the guy is unbiased when he's looking at it.
My machine tells me if a car I'm testing previously failed its last test, but won't specify how. Only tells me visual, functional, or emissions. (And again, we don't check suspensions beyond 'does it move? good')
There isn't anything that indicates not writing on the S&E results form, Yod. They did neglect to put any kind of signature on it, though, which I find suspicious. Even if it didn't pass, they should still have signed it, right?
As far as replacing the ball joints and tie rods go, I'm pretty confident in the abilities of my car-friends. We also have the Haynes Repair Manual for the car, which, as of yet, has proved a reliable guide for home repair.
I think so far my plan of action will be to call on the test and find out why it is the exhaust system failed, since they failed to add any notation with regard to that, just for information's sake. After that, I guess I'll take it down to the trusted mechanic for the discounted S&E test, without mentioning that it previously failed, and see what they say. I suspect the suspension/exhaust may be legitimate, so I'll anticipate getting those taken care of. At whatever point it ends up passing at the trusted mechanic, I'll file a complaint to Big O and see if I can't get the charge waived/lessened?
Get in good with a cool mechanic and it works out for both parties. Promise him all your business plus referrals as long as the work is solid and you'll get good prices if he isn't a dick.
Shogun Streams Vidya
This is good advice, and not only because I work at one of them. But yeah, we have no real reason to fail your car, and pretty good reason to pass as many people as possible. However, I don't think those shops exist in Utah. Looking around the motor vehicle enforcement site, it looks like you don't even need a special license to do emissions work, which is mindboggling to me.