Help me buy my first HDTV

Double Deuce

Hey all,

So, I've decided to buy my first HDTV, an upgrade over my current 32" standard TV. I've been looking at 47" mostly, 1080p, LCD flat screens. I'd like to spend around $1500 at most.

The things I will be using it for (mostly) are DVD watching (standard DVDs; I don't foresee myself buying HD-DVDs or Blu-Ray), Xbox 360 and Wii gaming. I also need to find out about my local cable company's HD plans, I guess.

Any advice on what to get, or what to stay away from, or just anything else you think I should know before taking this plunge.

Thanks!

Scrublet

Panasonic and Sony are both good brands (my parents recently bought a 32" or so LCD from them, awesome looking). 1080p is a good option for longetivity; not sure where the prices on that standard are at right now but I'm not sure you'll find a good 47" 1080p for $1500. The only thing you'll use the 1080p for are Blu-ray and HD-DVD so if you're not doing that you don't really need 1080p. I would say (and I know this tune has been sung before) that it looks like Blu-ray may be killing the battle with Warner (and by association, New Line and HBO) going Blu-ray only. So you may want to reconsider your decision there.

Also have you considered projectors? My friend got an amazing 720p Optoma for $1200 and it's incredible.

Ohio

Be careful spending on something you don't need. From what I've heard, 1080p is really only valuable on really big screens, like 55 inches and above. Smaller than that and you won't notice a difference unless you're sitting really close to your TV.

Also, from what I understand, TV stations don't broadcast in 1080p, only 1080i. From what you've said, the only 1080p source you might have is your 360, and that's only if you've got a version with HDMI output.

A Blu-Ray player would also output 1080p but you said you're not doing that.

Improvolone

I would starts over at Amazon, read the reviews, do some of your own comparing, and then come here to see what we can help you with on a few models.
What you want is a good scaler, and a high contrast rate. Those should be the most important thing to look for.

Ganluan

I've been very happy with my Samsung Plasma, and I've heard they make solid LCD screens as well.

I wouldn't be dead-set on 1080p though, based on what you want to do with it.

vonPoonBurGer

Ohio wrote: »

Be careful spending on something you don't need. From what I've heard, 1080p is really only valuable on really big screens, like 55 inches and above.

Screen size is only half the story. The other half is how far you are from the TV. Someone smarter than me did the math, and with a 47" TV, the benefit of 1080p starts to become noticeable at ~8 feet from the screen (assuming 20/20 vision). So whether or not 1080p is going to look better than 720p on the 47" screen the OP is considering depends entirely on the room where it's going to be installed.

MagicToaster

I would never buy a TV I can't see working right in front of me. Specs can be deceiving, sometimes TVs that sound amazing on paper have terrible viewing angles, ultra glossy screens or build horrible gradients.

Improvolone

Which is why, if you can't find it set up right in a store, you read a bunch of reviews.

Double Deuce

Thanks for the tips so far, guys. Keep 'em coming.

The two I've looked into a bit so far are the Vizio V047LF and the Philips 47PFL7432D. Both are 47" 1080p LCDs, and the Philips one has something called "Ambilight", which apparently means that the screen light comes from all edges, rather than just the center, so you don't have any dark sections (which supposedly is a problem with some LCDs, I guess).

I think I'm gonna go for the 1080p, for my 360 if nothing else. Also, I may try hooking my PC up to it and use it as a monitor sometimes as well. Plus, 1080p seems fairly commonplace now as far as what is available in the stores. When I looked at Best Buy yesterday, it was pretty much all 1080p.

My living room is set up with the TV about 9 feet away from my couch, so according to that chart, the difference may be negligible, but if I sit closer I may notice it.

The Costco near me has a Philips for $1499 (though I'm not sure if it's the same model as listed above; I've gotta go in and double check), and they have a 90 day return policy. I'll have to see if there's any type of repackaging fee or anything, but if there isn't, I could possibly buy it and try it out for awhile to see what I think.

Improvolone

Ambilight is kinda neat. The TV finds the average color being displayed on the TV, and then the TV's edges sort of emit that glow onto the wall.
For instance...


Vizio is a very good cheaper brand.

Double Deuce

Improvolone wrote: »

Vizio is a very good cheaper brand.

Yeah, unfortunately Amazon doesn't have that TV on their site (or pretty much any Vizio TVs). Anyone know any other sites with some solid reviews? I'd like to hear some firsthand accounts for these TVs.

Nakatomi2010

Let's say I had the opportunity to get one of these for about $1,400.... But it wouldn't ship until the 29th of this month, and you wouldn't receive it probably until half way into February.... Would you do it? And how would you convince the wife to do it too?

Or I could get its 46" brother for a just under a grand, but same shipping rules apply....

Slagmire

Double Deuce wrote: »

Improvolone wrote: »

Vizio is a very good cheaper brand.

Yeah, unfortunately Amazon doesn't have that TV on their site (or pretty much any Vizio TVs). Anyone know any other sites with some solid reviews? I'd like to hear some firsthand accounts for these TVs.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Televisions/sem/rpsm/c/1/catOid/-12867/N/20012866+20012867+41422152/link/ref/link/ref/rpem/ccd/categorylist.do

Circuit City typically sells a few of them; didn't see any 47 LCDs, but they do have a 50'' plasma for under $1500 and several LCDs around 42'' on down. Good amount of reviews it looks like on each of them as well too.

vonPoonBurGer

Double Deuce wrote: »

Vizio V047LF

This is a really, really new model. A bunch of guys on the AVS forums who work for major retailers are comparing notes, and for most of them the TV hasn't even started showing up in stores yet. Based on reviews for Vizio's other products, and given the price for the features listed on the spec sheet, it looks like a great unit. With any new model though, there's always the chance that it'll turn out to be a lemon for some reason or other.

Double Deuce

vonPoonBurGer wrote: »

Double Deuce wrote: »

Vizio V047LF

This is a really, really new model. A bunch of guys on the AVS forums who work for major retailers are comparing notes, and for most of them the TV hasn't even started showing up in stores yet. Based on reviews for Vizio's other products, and given the price for the features listed on the spec sheet, it looks like a great unit. With any new model though, there's always the chance that it'll turn out to be a lemon for some reason or other.

Yeah, I just realized that after googling it a bit. A friend just recommended Vizio, saying they made some good, cheaper TVs in general. Looking on Vizio's site got me to the V047LF.

Sounds like I may have to wait a bit if I decide on that one.

Nakatomi2010

Alright, so the wife's bargain with me is that if I can dump the old 32" Sony TRinitron TV we have (KV-FS120) then I can buy a new TV....

I'm going to hang a for sale sign with tear away numbers in our mail box area... Any thoughts on how to dump the TV?

Trying to get about 300 for it since we paid 600....

EvilMuffin

craigslist.com is a really good source for selling televisions locally. Also, I bought an Olevia 37 inch wide screen 1080i, I have had it for about 6 months and it has been used literaly non stop around the clock without any problems. (its set up in a gaming cafe right now)

Double Deuce

Nakatomi2010 wrote: »

Alright, so the wife's bargain with me is that if I can dump the old 32" Sony TRinitron TV we have (KV-FS120) then I can buy a new TV....

I'm going to hang a for sale sign with tear away numbers in our mail box area... Any thoughts on how to dump the TV?

Trying to get about 300 for it since we paid 600....

Craigslist?

My girlfriend is actually hassling me about getting this new TV too, haha... "You should pay off your credit card first; the TV we have works fine", blah blah blah. I need new gadgets every now and again! Why don't women understand this? ;-)

EDIT: Bah, the Muffin beat me to it.

Improvolone

For reviews, check out www.avsforum.com
Some people will complain that eveyrone there only wants the best so they knock the cheaper stuff, but thats bullshit.

Djeet

nakatomi: I'd jump all over that Sharp deal you got there; as for making it more palatable for the wife, you might want to have some hi-def source materials to show her on the new set, so she can see for herself the difference. Also, I sincerely doubt you're going to get 3 bills for that 32" TV (CRT right?). I guess it depends on the market in your area, but I'd try pricing it at what other people are pricing it at and include a free kicker of some kind. The guy buying your set doesn't care what you paid for it, just what he can get it for (maybe $150?).

Double Deuce

Another question for you guys...

What exactly are these "built-in tuner" things that some HDTVs have? Does that have to do with your cable signal, or something else? For example, that Vizio model has "Built-in digital HDTV & standard TV combined tuner" listed in it's features. What does that mean?

Djeet

the built-in tuner allows your tv (you'll need an antenna too) to decode the over-the-air (OTA) digital signal provided by the broadcasters (abc, cbs, nbc, fox, cw). without the hd tuner, you're just going to get the analog tv signal from the broadcaster; unless you have another hd source (hi-def cable or satellite, hi-def dvd player, pc).

Goose!

For the sake of not creating a new thread, I am taking the new post I was about to create and instead piggybacking into this one, as I am in a similar boat:

So, I'm thinking about getting a medium/big LCD HDTV for my room. From the pricing I've been doing. I'm trying to find something that is under a grand. I've been looking around, but I don't know much about them. I know that I want at least 1 HDMI input for gaming (as I have a 360 and a PS3 now), and I also know I want one with the HDTV tuner built-in. Beyond that, I'm not sure what the hell I'm doing.

I am thinking of getting this one, but I am extremely wary of buying from an online retailer for something this enormous.

I went into Best Buy today to return a game or three from Xmas, and I saw a Westinghouse 32" for around 600.

My questions are:

First is there any merit to shopping by name brands or is it okay to go with a Westhinghouse or Dynex TV (I know you guys mention Vizio and they seem to be cheaper and awesome, so is that going to always be the case)? Is it worth it to get a TV with a built-in HDTV tuner if I have digital cable with its own HDTV channels etc.? Lastly, where could I get the best deal on an HDTV between 32 and 42 inches?

Thanks for any and all help, guys.

Crayon

g0oseyourself wrote: »

For the sake of not creating a new thread, I am taking the new post I was about to create and instead piggybacking into this one, as I am in a similar boat:

So, I'm thinking about getting a medium/big LCD HDTV for my room. From the pricing I've been doing. I'm trying to find something that is under a grand. I've been looking around, but I don't know much about them. I know that I want at least 1 HDMI input for gaming (as I have a 360 and a PS3 now), and I also know I want one with the HDTV tuner built-in. Beyond that, I'm not sure what the hell I'm doing.

I am thinking of getting this one, but I am extremely wary of buying from an online retailer for something this enormous.

I went into Best Buy today to return a game or three from Xmas, and I saw a Westinghouse 32" for around 600.

My questions are:

First is there any merit to shopping by name brands or is it okay to go with a Westhinghouse or Dynex TV (I know you guys mention Vizio and they seem to be cheaper and awesome, so is that going to always be the case)? Is it worth it to get a TV with a built-in HDTV tuner if I have digital cable with its own HDTV channels etc.? Lastly, where could I get the best deal on an HDTV between 32 and 42 inches?

Thanks for any and all help, guys.

Westy's are good, but not great. They are one of the lower tiered that you can count on, much like Vizio. I don't know anything about Dynex, but I don't think they stack up even in the lower tier.

An HD tuner isn't necessary if you will be getting an hd converter box. You only need an hd tuner to pick up OTA transmissions.

khain

g0oseyourself wrote: »

My questions are:

First is there any merit to shopping by name brands or is it okay to go with a Westhinghouse or Dynex TV (I know you guys mention Vizio and they seem to be cheaper and awesome, so is that going to always be the case)? Is it worth it to get a TV with a built-in HDTV tuner if I have digital cable with its own HDTV channels etc.? Lastly, where could I get the best deal on an HDTV between 32 and 42 inches?

Thanks for any and all help, guys.

Name brands for TVs are basically like everything else, their definitely better, but your going to pay more for them. What I would recommend doing is finding some TVs for different brands that have the specs you want and then walking into BB, CC or some other store and take a look at the TVs. Ask for the remote as the settings are going suck and set them to something you pulled off off AVSforum thats actually good and see how each TV looks. The cheapest prices your going to find are almost always going to be online, but I can't recommend enough to at least get a look at the TV first.

vonPoonBurGer

g0oseyourself wrote: »

First is there any merit to shopping by name brands or is it okay to go with a Westhinghouse or Dynex TV (I know you guys mention Vizio and they seem to be cheaper and awesome, so is that going to always be the case)?

After having spent a lot of time comparison shopping, I've got sort of a rough mental outline of where the different major brands stack up, but it's probably out of date by now. I know Sony tends to be really good, but also really expensive. You can generally get something that's pretty comparable for significantly less by buying one of the more mid-range brands (e.g. Toshiba). Some of the budget brands actually have a really decent product for the price (e.g. Vizio, from what I've read), but some of those bargain brands are really kinda crap. I wouldn't buy a Westinghouse TV based on what I've heard. For any HDTV, you should absolutely definitely take a look at one in person, even if you plan to buy it online, and you should also read reviews from people who actually bought the TV.

g0oseyourself wrote: »

Is it worth it to get a TV with a built-in HDTV tuner if I have digital cable with its own HDTV channels etc.?

I'd say that tuner / no tuner should probably be pretty low on your list of criteria when shopping for a TV. If it has a tuner, bonus, but if you like the look of it and it's got good reviews but no tuner, don't let that stop you. While you might eventually be in a situation where the HDTV tuner comes in handy, you almost certainly won't use it at the same time that you have HDTV via digital cable.

Djeet

i've heard that some vizio models have poor SD performance (though perfectly acceptable hd performance), i'm not sure what's meant by poor sd performance, perhaps it looks too pixelated? i have an hd-rptv (with the 3 crt guns) so i never see pixelation, but SD programming looks a bit pixelated on this 42" vizio at a pub i frequent.

regarding the OTA tuner: a friend of mine who's a sports nut (pays extra so he can get additional sports programming), when confronted with seeing the same game OTA or via hd cable will switch over to the OTA tuner. he says the cable feed compresses the signal, resulting in compression artifacts (most often during panning shots). now there's some logic to it (cable provider has to deliver like 500 channels through the medium), but i'm not convinced it wasn't a temporary glitch in the cable delivery while he was testing it out.

i cancelled my cable and watch with powered bunny ears. this was initially a purely economical decision, but now that i feel i can take on the expense, i'm putting it off cause I watch a lot les tv now, and get a lot more sleep. course i may get cable/satellite when the writer's strike ends.

vonPoonBurGer

Djeet wrote: »

i've heard that some vizio models have poor SD performance (though perfectly acceptable hd performance), i'm not sure what's meant by poor sd performance, perhaps it looks too pixelated?

This is a common problem with budget brands, and it's especially noticeable on LCDs due to the nature of the screen. Basically, if you're a budget manufacturer and you plan to undercut the major brands on price, you need to cut costs somewhere to maintain a profit margin. One of the easiest places to do that in an HDTV is to use a cheaper video processor. That's the part of the TV that handles the conversion between resolutions. The cheaper the TV relative to comparable models, the greater the chance that it uses a less expensive video processor, which is likely (though not certain) to generate a less favorable image when scaling content. This would be most noticeable when upscaling really low resolution stuff to the native resolution of the display, and standard def content is about as low-res as you're going to find.

Djeet wrote: »

regarding the OTA tuner: a friend of mine who's a sports nut (pays extra so he can get additional sports programming), when confronted with seeing the same game OTA or via hd cable will switch over to the OTA tuner. he says the cable feed compresses the signal, resulting in compression artifacts (most often during panning shots). now there's some logic to it (cable provider has to deliver like 500 channels through the medium), but i'm not convinced it wasn't a temporary glitch in the cable delivery while he was testing it out.

I think your friend is right. A friend of mine with Bell ExpressVu has noticed that the overall quality of HD content has been decreasing as they add more HD channels. Originally he found the HD content to be pretty spectacular, but over time he's started to notice more and more compression artifacts. His theory is that they're scaling up the compression and scaling down the bandwidth per channel in order to make room for those additional channels in the available bandwidth. Even with more lossy compression, it's still a hell of a lot better than SD, but it's unfortunate that they don't have more bandwidth available. When the HD rollout finishes, and everyone has more or less the same number of channels, the next big marketing angle for HD cable / satellite will be who has better quality.

Djeet wrote: »

i cancelled my cable and watch with powered bunny ears. this was initially a purely economical decision, but now that i feel i can take on the expense, i'm putting it off cause I watch a lot les tv now, and get a lot more sleep. course i may get cable/satellite when the writer's strike ends.

I haven't had cable/satellite in years, originally at my girlfriend's insistence, but I find myself pretty able to live without it now. People often mock my HDTV with the bunny ears on top, but I just don't watch enough TV to bother with anything more. The only thing I really miss are the sports channels, and even then it's only during major events that it bothers me (mainly the NHL playoffs & IIHF World Juniors... what can I say, I'm Canadian). If a la carte subscription options weren't such a terrible deal, I might pick up a few basic channels plus the sports channels, but every time I check out the price, I'd either be getting a ton of shit I don't want (yet will end up wasting time surfing through anyway), or I'd be getting gouged.

Sadly, I bought my TV before HD tuners were common in sub-$2000 models, so OTA isn't an option for me either. The price of being an early adopter, I guess.

PorkChopSandwiches

I have a 42" Vizio LCD and I have been very pleased with it. Vizio actually tends to use other major brand's components (notably LG and Samsung) to build their TVs. I haven't noticed any difference in SD between my TV and my friend's Panasonic. (and mine cost much less.)

Djeet

vonPoonBurGer wrote: »

Sadly, I bought my TV before HD tuners were common in sub-$2000 models, so OTA isn't an option for me either. The price of being an early adopter, I guess.

ditto. if you want OTA hd on the cheap and don't mind fiddling with a computer then consider: for about 20 USD I got a K-world ATSC PCI tuner card (model 110 or something), it came with a 1 month trial to BeyondTV software. Had to pony up another 30 USD to upgrade it to full version, but I was out only 50 USD to get OTA hd decoding.

vonPoonBurGer

Djeet wrote: »

If you want OTA hd on the cheap and don't mind fiddling with a computer then consider: for about 20 USD I got a K-world ATSC PCI tuner card (model 110 or something)

Neat, thanks for the tip. I actually have a home theater PC I built sitting right next to the TV. If I'd realized you could get an ATSC tuner card for so little, I probably would have done it by now!

Nakatomi2010

So I've gone ahead and ordered that 52" Sharp Aquos TV for $1499.99, shipping free and only another 106 in taxes, so it was like 1604 or something to the door.... Wont see it till February, but it'll be a nice improvement over my 32" Sony Trinitron TV....