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Introducing an unsocial dog to a friendly dog.

Dublo7Dublo7 Registered User regular
edited May 2008 in Help / Advice Forum
So, at the moment, I'm living with my grandparents because of renovations going on at my house. They have a dog (a female Labrador) that is overly friendly, and is great around other dogs.
My dog, on the other hand, is like a totally different dog when she's around other dogs (She's perfectly behaved around people though). In the proximity of other dogs, she snarls, she growls, she bites. She's only a tiny Sheetzu Maltese, so it's almost comical at how angry and aggressive she can get.
Obviously I want the dogs to be able to live in peace for this brief amount time.

Does anyone have any tips on how I can introduce my dog to my grandparents' dog?

Thanks.

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dublo7 on

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    TrowizillaTrowizilla Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Keep them separated in general, and keep both dogs on-leash if they have to be together. DON'T leave them alone together; your dog is very likely going to harass your grandparents' dog, and with the size difference there, if Labrador wants to get rid of Small Angry Shih-Tzu Maltese, Small Angry is going to die.

    If you're only staying there briefly, I wouldn't even try to get them used to each other. It's asking for problems, and it takes a very long time for a dog-aggressive dog to be trustworthy around other dogs.

    Trowizilla on
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    NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I remember reading once that if you're trying to do this, introducing them on their own turf is a bad idea. The actual process if mentioned to help them get over this, however, may take awhile.

    If you can, try to drive somewhere, like an open field or something, where they can both see each other, but neither can really "lay claim" to the area, or feel contained. Let them get used to each other at a distance at first. If they seem relatively comfortable, try to gem a bit closer to each other. If your dog starts freaking out, just move the other dog back a bit until your dog has calmed down. Rinse and repeat.

    Eventually (so this book said), you'll be able to get the dogs close enough together that they can sniff each other. If they're at this comfort level, it said you should slowly bring them closer and closer to the actual home they'll both be staying at...and ideally, eventually, they will both be able to live in the same house.

    I'm not sure how long this would really take (may be months, I've never done this myself)...but it might be something to try out in the meantime (while keeping them separated for now). I'm assuming the renovations will be over in less time than it will take you to do this, but...hey! You can at least start the process to avoid this with your dog later.

    NightDragon on
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    Aoi TsukiAoi Tsuki Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    How friendly is "overly friendly"? Jumping, licking, bounding all over the place? That kind of dog is a lot of fun for nonnervous people, but kind of a douche in other dogs' eyes, and when it's a much bigger dog than a reserved small breed like a Maltese, 'tis trouble. I'll have to concur that unless you're staying there for quite a while, i.e. at least a couple of months, you're better off keeping them apart than trying to get them to like each other. Always keep in mind that your dog doesn't think being "attacked" by a bigger one is funny, even though it is. ;)

    Aoi Tsuki on
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    Dublo7Dublo7 Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    The Labrador is not jumping or pushing my dog at all. She's slowly approaching my dog and sniffing at her. Then my dog just loses it.

    The Labrador then gets scared and runs away.

    Dublo7 on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    narv107narv107 Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    There are a lot of techniques you can use to help socialize your dog with the Labrador. The best one for you will match your ability/personality with the dogs who need help.

    If the Labrador is not anxious about being tied up you could put it on a short tether. Put a lead on the Sheetzu Maltese and walk past the Lab at a distance and don't pay any attention to the tethered dog. When your dog starts acting aggressive make her walk away with you and then bring her back around for another pass. Your dog should eventually stop reacting aggressively at that distance and you can start doing closer passes. Eventually you'll get them close enough to greet each other. As soon as your dog acts aggressive, walk away again and come back.

    It's important to note that you should walk perpendicular to the location of the tethered dog. Going straight at it is a confrontational method of approaching it. Approach at an angle or walk tangentially to it.

    narv107 on
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    CooterTKECooterTKE Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    you need to correct your dogs behavior any time it starts to show aggression. Best way is to flip them on their back and hold them down until they stop and submit. Have the lab lay down and be calm when you do this.

    CooterTKE on
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    narv107narv107 Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    CooterTKE wrote: »
    you need to correct your dogs behavior any time it starts to show aggression. Best way is to flip them on their back and hold them down until they stop and submit. Have the lab lay down and be calm when you do this.

    While watching Cesar Millan is a good way to pick up methods of dog rehabilitation, this particular one is a very bad idea. A submission pin is not something that the average dog owner should be attempting. If you do not do it correctly you are going to damage the relationship and trust between you and your dog. You are also probably going to get yourself a decent bite in the process.

    I will repeat again, do not do this. The about correcting your dog's behavior does remind me of something I didn't add to my last post. If you try the technique I suggested you need to start your dog walking away the exact moment he becomes aggressive. Dogs have about a half second of immediate retention. If you don't start the "correction" of walking away in that half second he won't be able to relate the two things together.

    You also need to be vigilant with your corrections. If you let your dog get away with the aggressive behavior even 1 in 20 times she will probably think that she can get away with it again the next time.

    narv107 on
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    Dublo7Dublo7 Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Cesar Milan supposedly uses really dated and sometimes cruel methods.

    Thanks for the tips, Narv.

    Dublo7 on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    narv107narv107 Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Cesar Milan supposedly uses really dated and sometimes cruel methods.

    His techniques are neither of those things. They are controversial though. I think the biggest reason they cause waves is because people see him on TV and think "hey, I can do that" when in fact, they cannot. One of the things I find most interesting about his show are the number of people on it who claim to be huge fans of the show, yet their issues is that they have absolutely no concept of his philosophy and technique for working with dogs. It is astounding.

    narv107 on
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    Aoi TsukiAoi Tsuki Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Yeah, it sounds like an alpha roll's precisely the wrong thing to do, as it often seems to be.

    Has your dog ever had a bad experience with other dogs, or always been like this? If the Lab's being that polite, it's a little harder to figure out why the Maltese is going apeshit. (Hard to beat a little dog intimidating a big one, though. My roommate's bearded dragon and my guinea pig both like to terrorize my large, perfectly healthy cats.)

    Aoi Tsuki on
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    Sir LandsharkSir Landshark resting shark face Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I have two dogs (50 lb lab/chow mix and 10 lb mini pin/pomeranian mix). I'm hardly an expert, but between the reading I've done and my personal experience, it seems overt aggression (to the point of biting) is a much bigger problem in smaller dogs than it is in larger dogs.

    The issue with our 10 lb girl was she was constantly being carried around, cuddled, fed from the table, etc. by my wife. I don't quite understand all that goes on in her tiny brain (the dog, not my wife), but she basically started thinking she was top dog and needed to impose her will on every other dog she met. As soon as we gave her a little discipline (no picking her up, not allowed on furniture, no food from the table, etc.), she came to understand her place in the family hierarchy and we had no more problems introducing her to other dogs.

    I don't know if this relates to your current situation or not, but I thought I'd share.

    Sir Landshark on
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    LadyMLadyM Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    How long will you be living with your grandparents? It will probably take quite a while to desensitive your dog to other dogs, especially a dog she's living with.

    It's vital that you keep the dogs SEPARATE in everyday life until your dog learns to accept the other dog. The labrador could injure or kill your dog if it decides it's taken enough crap from her. Only let the dogs together in controlled, supervised meetings.

    I suggest asking this question at an actual dog message board like Chazhound or Pets.ca, because each of them have some people who are professional trainers, plus other people who have simply trained a lot of dogs.

    LadyM on
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    Dublo7Dublo7 Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I just took the Sheetzu out to the backyard on a leash, along with the Labrador. So far, so good.

    They were sniffing each other, and then just generally getting along with their own business. The Sheetzu growled every now and then, but I made sure to correct her as soon as it began.

    I'll try to do these supervised things a few times a day.

    Dublo7 on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    ArrathArrath Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Aoi Tsuki wrote: »
    Yeah, it sounds like an alpha roll's precisely the wrong thing to do, as it often seems to be.

    Has your dog ever had a bad experience with other dogs, or always been like this? If the Lab's being that polite, it's a little harder to figure out why the Maltese is going apeshit. (Hard to beat a little dog intimidating a big one, though. My roommate's bearded dragon and my guinea pig both like to terrorize my large, perfectly healthy cats.)

    Haha, awesome. My roommate's house-roaming rabbits just love the cats, who are scared to death of the little things.

    Everything that has been suggested so far is good, neutral ground, slowly move them closer, instant correction/redirection when agression is shown. It'll just take some time and trial and error.

    Arrath on
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    squinutsquinut Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Your shi-tzu maltese reminds me of my maltese. She has the exact same problem, over the top aggression but I'm able to explain it. When she was a tiny little puppy I stupidly allowed her off-leash in a field, thinking I was alone and safe with her but what I didn't know was that around a corner a lady had the exact same idea I did and her German Sheppard + x2 Jack Russells were off-leash too. And well to a tiny puppy those biiiiggggg doggies looked really tiny and fun from a distance and before I could grab her she was tearing off to play with them only to get a big shock when they started yapping and chasing her...she was traumatized real bad from that incident, actually flipping over and weeing on herself in shock.

    From that day on she would go BERSERK whenever she saw another dog (especially Jack Russells)...weirdly though she shows no aggression towards puppies who are about her size/smaller than her and would even play with them sometimes.

    I'm lucky because I've been able to mellow down her aggression somewhat, as there's a dog grooming salon near my house and whenever I'm free I'll bring her down to socialize (hopefully), she is still wary of strange dogs and takes a lot longer than the resident dogs to buddy up to another dog but at least she isn't going apeshit all the time.

    I second all the advice that narv107 has given. You shouldn't be scaring your dog further by taking too forceful methods, the best thing you can do is to take baby steps, when she shows aggression use a calm, assertive voice (like Cesar always said haha) and use a word like "No" or "Nu-Uh", whatever you have been doing to tell her that she is doing something wrong and immediately walk away.

    She'll learn slowly that you do not approve of her aggression but don't count on her suddenly becoming a doggy loving machine. She'll still be wary of strange dogs but she won't try to bite them...not unless they scare her.

    squinut on
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    Dublo7Dublo7 Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Thing are going really, really well.

    Yesterday, my Nanna took the two dogs for a walk in the morning and in the afternoon. She said they were perfectly well behaved.

    I've been taking the Sheetzu out into the backyard with the Labrador a few times a day. At first, when I introduce them, the Sheetzu growls, but after that, she's fine.

    I'm almost astounded.

    Thanks for the help guys.

    Dublo7 on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    zenpotatozenpotato Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Something to keep in mind--when your dog is on the leash, he's worried about himself and protecting you. I've always found that my dog is much less aggressive when he's off the leash.

    zenpotato on
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    squinutsquinut Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    zenpotato wrote: »
    Something to keep in mind--when your dog is on the leash, he's worried about himself and protecting you. I've always found that my dog is much less aggressive when he's off the leash.

    Now this really depends on the dog, not all dogs react the same way to being off-leash. My maltese is alright off-leash UNTIL she smells, hears or somehow senses another dog from two blocks away...then she goes absolutely nuts and tears after the other dog howling like there's no tomorrow. She completely ignores me, no matter how I call after her only after I catch her does she make her "guilty" look and sometimes even when I've got a good hold of her ruff she still tries to bark at the other dog.

    Simply put you can't do off-leash with a traumatized dog. However for a dog that has no bad history with humans or other animals in general, you can tentatively try the off-leash method. I say tentatively because I live by the motto "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" and ever since I've learned of her aggression I have not allowed her off-leash. When you leave your dog off-leash, especially a big dog there is always the possibility of you losing control and when you lose control of your dog, you can't stop your dog from attacking or even fatally wounding another dog or even a human. When you let your dog off-leash you are essentially endangering others, and maybe even your own dog.

    However off-leash is still possible with good training and good SENSE. In crowded areas DON'T TAKE THAT CHANCE, it is not worth it. In rural fields or areas yes off-leash is possible, but make sure that you can reign in your dog. If your dog does not obey your commands DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT. And even with obedient dogs you have to be doubly sure that they do not have any traumatic incidents regarding humans or other animals because the moment instinct takes over nothing else can get through until they calm down...and usually by then that's too late.

    squinut on
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    zenpotatozenpotato Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Right--I was specifically thinking of a place like a dog park where everyone is expecting it. I know a lot of people keep their dog on the leash there because their nervous about their dog, but that nervousness combined with the need to protect you makes you dog unnecessarily aggressive.

    zenpotato on
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    squinutsquinut Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Yes I agree with you on the nervous owner=nervous dog. But still even at a dog park you should be careful especially with a big dog. If your dog has never been known to be aggressive, or out of control when excited then go ahead and have fun with your dog off leash. But if you know you can't control your dog don't try it in the vain hope that somehow you can telepathically control him.

    It's always better to be safe than sorry, off-leash is good and all but not for all dogs. Dogs who have been well-socialized, who not only go out for walks regularly but also interact on a regular basis with other dogs can usually be trusted to behave off-leash. But dogs who have basically been living all their lives in their little shell sure as hell can't be trusted off-leash.

    That is why many dog trainers stress the importance of interaction and socializing. If your dog hasn't had a good experience, or doesn't even know what another dog looks like, then you simply can't trust that dog off-leash. The anxiety your dog feels is directly related to the anxiety you feel. Like what you said, if you're nervous your dog will be doubly wary because he wants to protect you. You can't just tell your dog to relax, you have to be the one relaxing for your dog to relax. But even if both owner and dog are relaxed, you should never think that a socially retarded dog will behave exactly like a socially well-adjusted dog.

    That is why I keep saying off-leash is good and all but only if you know your dog well enough to trust him or her to behave. Good training and good sense, without these you can forget about going off-leash even in a dog park.

    squinut on
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    Raiden333Raiden333 Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    I have a really nice dog around people, Alaskan Malamute/Husky/Collie mix, and she's the friendliest dog you could ever imagine to every single person, and even submissive to cats. She even used to play games with a baby kitten we had. But as soon as she gets near another dog, she just goes into kill mode.

    She practically breaks my arm if we see one while we're going for a walk, and I'm scared to death to try getting her used to another dog because she's kind of big and could probably do some real damage really fast. We know she's aggressive not only because of her mannerisms, but the first time we tried to introduce her to another dog she did try to attack it until they were separated. She's also gotten in occasional fights with the dogs next door through the fence, but to be fair the other dogs always start that, they're much more aggressive than her.

    It really sucks not being able to take her anywhere there might be another dog though, because other than that she's a perfect companion. When we adopted her from the shelter the SPCA said that they picked her up running free in rural fields with a rotweiler buddy chasing livestock, so apparently she used to enjoy the company of dogs.

    Sorry to derail the thread a bit, but this is a topic I'm having a lot of trouble with myself and would like any suggestions.

    Raiden333 on
    There was a steam sig here. It's gone now.
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    squinutsquinut Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Well firstly I'd advice you to try and distance your dog from your neighbor's dogs. They're only worsening the problem, if you have any way of making a simple fence or blockade to prevent her and them from getting too close and agitating each other that would really help. From what I can tell it should be the aggressive behavior from the next door dogs that caused her to become aggressive, so unless you can somehow prevent her from being exposed to their aggression this is a hopeless situation. You could always talk with your neighbor and ask him if he can do something about his dogs but unless your neighbor is an actual dog trainer I wouldn't count on him improving the situation by much.

    If you somehow manage to isolate her from their aggressive behavior then you can go on to step 2, desensitizing her to another dog. Which is exactly the advice given to the OP, you can adapt it to your situation. Do not overwhelm her with too many dogs, take baby steps, be calm and firm when she shows aggression and do not panic.

    Find a friend with a dog who is willing to do this with you, if not you had better hold onto that leash tight. On neutral territory let her see the other dog from a distance, and when she goes crazy don't panic, be calm and stop moving immediately if she continues to go crazy turn away and put more distance between her and the other dog until she calms down, then slowly approach the other dog once more. Rewards will go a long way in helping her get over this, each time she calmly approaches the other dog give her some kind of food reward.

    This will take time and as always be consistent, don't try to rush her because she'll just snap back into her bad behavior. And unless you've managed to prevent the source of the problem (the aggressive dogs next door) you'll just be treating the symptoms not the problem.

    squinut on
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    Eat_FireEat_Fire Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Trowizilla wrote: »
    ...If you're only staying there briefly, I wouldn't even try to get them used to each other. It's asking for problems, and it takes a very long time for a dog-aggressive dog to be trustworthy around other dogs.


    Avoiding training your dog is not sound advice, Trow probably just means with this dog in particular. I have had some success with the submissive pin technique. I've had my dog (mini-schnauzer) for over a year before I even heard of Cesar. My dog's problem was constant straining at the lease. I used the leash correction technique and its worked really well. At this point he walks next to me or my girlfriend with or without a lease.

    As far as the pin technique I have been helping my neighbor with his new lab-mix, dogs about 6 months old and full of energy. Even after a couple days of him just asserting the alpha roll, including the pin, the dog has gotten alot less aggressive. We live in an apartment complex with a dog park. The one thing that annoys me more than anything is the people I see coming to the park and standing outside the gate because they can't control their dogs. It's the equivalent of going on a talk show with your "outta control kid".


    If your dog ever bites you, you should definitely seek some outside help and get a muzzel for training.

    Eat_Fire on
    -Updating life to SP1-
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    TrowizillaTrowizilla Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Eat_Fire wrote: »
    Trowizilla wrote: »
    ...If you're only staying there briefly, I wouldn't even try to get them used to each other. It's asking for problems, and it takes a very long time for a dog-aggressive dog to be trustworthy around other dogs.


    Avoiding training your dog is not sound advice, Trow probably just means with this dog in particular. I have had some success with the submissive pin technique. I've had my dog (mini-schnauzer) for over a year before I even heard of Cesar. My dog's problem was constant straining at the lease. I used the leash correction technique and its worked really well. At this point he walks next to me or my girlfriend with or without a lease.

    As far as the pin technique I have been helping my neighbor with his new lab-mix, dogs about 6 months old and full of energy. Even after a couple days of him just asserting the alpha roll, including the pin, the dog has gotten alot less aggressive. We live in an apartment complex with a dog park. The one thing that annoys me more than anything is the people I see coming to the park and standing outside the gate because they can't control their dogs. It's the equivalent of going on a talk show with your "outta control kid".


    If your dog ever bites you, you should definitely seek some outside help and get a muzzel for training.

    Alpha rolling with a fear-aggressive dog is just begging to get bitten in the face. Yeah, I know, Caesar technique, but he generally knows what he's doing and your average dog-owner doesn't, and a scared dog will sometimes interpret being rolled over and pinned as a sign that you're about to rip out its throat. Obviously not good.

    And yeah, I meant it's probably a bad idea to try to rush the OP's dog to be "okay" (as in, trustworthy together) with the labrador in the short time they're going to have to be together. The little dog is already freaking out and trying to establish territory, so most likely it's better to keep them separated when not slowly working towards less dog-aggression in general.

    Trowizilla on
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    squinutsquinut Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    The problem with using techniques you see others use is exactly like taking the meds you see someone else take simply because it works. Well yeah it works BUT FOR THEM. Whatever method you use to discipline or train a dog won't always work on another dog, because dogs aren't like computers, they aren't manufactured in exactly the same way. Just like how some kids tend to be shy while their siblings are outgoing, yeah they came from the mom, same dad, same family etc but they are wired differently despite all their similarities they simply aren't the same person.

    So whenever a posters comes along asking for help about their dogs etc, we would have to know the vague history of the said dog before we can give advice that can work. Most of the advice given focus on less trauma and less risk of injury for both dog and owner.

    Alpha rolling works if the problem is in regards to dominance, if you don't establish yourself as the alpha THEY will, so alpha rolling is a way of telling them who is the boss. BUT with fear-aggressive dogs that is a whole different issue! Alpha rolling won't work with fear-aggressive dogs because they don't have a dominant issue, fear-aggressive dogs tend to be submissive but because they don't want to be bitten, are aggressive in order to warn other dogs away.

    But with puppies, they still haven't figured out who in the house is boss, so you alpha roll them to tell them "I'm the BOSS". You won't get bitten because the puppy isn't aggressive out of fear, he is simply pushing his luck and will stop if you establish rules and limits. But with a fear-aggressive dog, if you try alpha rolling he WILL bite you, because you are making him even more vulnerable, and thus he'll become even more scared, thereby making him even more likely to bite to protect himself.

    squinut on
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    Eat_FireEat_Fire Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    keep in mind this dog is a maltese, a 7lb(avg) dog. Might have to break out the tiny circle bandaids if one of these bites yah.

    Re-reading the OP again, sounds like typical little dog syndrome: Yapyapyap, come close and I run to the safety of a human or hole.

    Being firm and constant with not allowing the aggressive behavior should take care of the problem, but you need to be a brick wall as far as the dog is concerned.

    One thing my girlfriend found worked well with her 2 chihuahuas was a shock caller (they barked at the drop of a hat, sight of another dog). You can pick up several different kinds at your local Petco/Petsmart/whatever. She got one that has an exponential shock...that is:

    bark just once= nothing
    bark twice= tiny buzz
    bark 3 times = your gonna feel this one
    and so on.

    Keep in mind a shock collar is a tool and not a fix. It WILL NOT WORK if you don't follow up with training the dog.The first time these things go off your dog will probly yelp and run for cover underneath something and hide for several minutes, this is not the time to coo them. Your equating excessive barking with a shock to them. Usually after about 2-3 times most dogs will get the message (I've watched this used on about 4 dogs) across. This will also turn the sight of you holding the collar out towards the dog as a way of saying "Behave right now!"

    Eat_Fire on
    -Updating life to SP1-
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    squinutsquinut Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Just because a dog is tiny doesn't mean it can't bite you where it hurts.

    Congrats, you have earned yourself an award in Being a Dick, maybe if you grind your dick levels you'll finally earn an Asshole of Invincibility, and then you'll be impervious to damage from Actions without Consideration.

    Edit: So you edited your post.

    Shock collars are for owners who want to take the shortcut without regards for the mental or physical well-being of their pets. Would you seriously use a shock collar on your misbehaving kid? Or a traumatized kid? Now then would you put a dog in a situation that would be counted as abusive if it were a kid?

    If you said yes to all of that then hooray for you.

    squinut on
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    TrowizillaTrowizilla Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    The worst bite I ever got from a dog was from a Chihuahua, no joke. I walked by a couch it was hiding underneath and it bit through the back of my ankle, right around the Achilles tendon. Bled like a bitch and probably needed stitches, which I couldn't afford to get. Small dog bites are not something to take lightly.

    Shock collars are only useful for very, very limited situations and are generally used as a tool by lazy and/or cruel dog owners. Redirection is much better as a way to stop barking, or training the dog that it only gets attention when it's quiet.

    Trowizilla on
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    Eat_FireEat_Fire Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    squinut wrote: »
    Just because a dog is tiny doesn't mean it can't bite you where it hurts.

    Congrats, you have earned yourself an award in Being a Dick, maybe if you grind your dick levels you'll finally earn an Asshole of Invincibility, and then you'll be impervious to damage from Actions without Consideration.

    Edit: So you edited your post.

    Shock collars are for owners who want to take the shortcut without regards for the mental or physical well-being of their pets. Would you seriously use a shock collar on your misbehaving kid? Or a traumatized kid? Now then would you put a dog in a situation that would be counted as abusive if it were a kid?

    If you said yes to all of that then hooray for you.

    It appears you have never read the directions on a shock collar box. Shock callers are not for extended use.You put them on your dog for a few hours at a time. Also training a dog is impossible when your at work. I am sure some people on this forum have been on the giving/receiving end of a noise complaint because of a barking dog.Keep in mind not everyone is an agile young person able to move through their house to catch their dog for "redirection" the second they start barking.

    If you feel that any sort of physical discipline is wrong, simple state so and put it out there. There is no reason to just write flame posts. Yes, I did edit my post, the original post is exactly the same except I added information. To anwser your question "I would consider a shock caller for my hypothetical offspring if they had the mind of a dog and a barking issue when I leave them at my house when I go to work. The second part does not apply as I would not abuse my child. A shock caller is not really an applicable device for a child, however I can point out plenty of kids who have never been physically disciplined in their life, just by looking around. "

    ***ZOMG Edit***
    2 cool points to the response that is a rewording of my last sentence.

    Eat_Fire on
    -Updating life to SP1-
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    Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    You know...I fixed one my foster dog's barking problems simply using a can filled with pennies and an especially long saturday, She barked, I shook the can and threw it in a corner, she eventually got the picture. Shock collars should really be a last resort sort of thing, it's just a cruel thing to do to a dog for doing something that comes so naturally to the animal. But...I suppose this is getting off topic now.

    Dark_Side on
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    squinutsquinut Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Eat_Fire wrote: »
    squinut wrote: »
    Just because a dog is tiny doesn't mean it can't bite you where it hurts.

    Congrats, you have earned yourself an award in Being a Dick, maybe if you grind your dick levels you'll finally earn an Asshole of Invincibility, and then you'll be impervious to damage from Actions without Consideration.

    Edit: So you edited your post.

    Shock collars are for owners who want to take the shortcut without regards for the mental or physical well-being of their pets. Would you seriously use a shock collar on your misbehaving kid? Or a traumatized kid? Now then would you put a dog in a situation that would be counted as abusive if it were a kid?

    If you said yes to all of that then hooray for you.

    It appears you have never read the directions on a shock collar box. Shock callers are not for extended use.You put them on your dog for a few hours at a time. Also training a dog is impossible when your at work. I am sure some people on this forum have been on the giving/receiving end of a noise complaint because of a barking dog.Keep in mind not everyone is an agile young person able to move through their house to catch their dog for "redirection" the second they start barking.

    If you feel that any sort of physical discipline is wrong, simple state so and put it out there. There is no reason to just write flame posts. Yes, I did edit my post, the original post is exactly the same except I added information. To anwser your question "I would consider a shock caller for my hypothetical offspring if they had the mind of a dog and a barking issue when I leave them at my house when I go to work. The second part does not apply as I would not abuse my child. A shock caller is not really an applicable device for a child, however I can point out plenty of kids who have never been physically disciplined in their life, just by looking around. "

    ***ZOMG Edit***
    2 cool points to the response that is a rewording of my last sentence.

    Off topic but I have to apologize. I am sorry for sounding like an asshole, I was stressed out and your post just fired me up. I overreacted and said some really shitty things which I shouldn't have said no matter the circumstances, and I am sorry for inflicting it on you. Hopefully you aren't too mad so lets just put this behind us.

    A dog is like a small child in some ways, they depend wholly on their owners for survival and however they turn out is also dependent on how their owner trains/brings them up. A shock collar is not something I would use unless there is really nothing else. Kids turn out like brats simply because their parents won't say no. If your child throws a tantrum and you give in to them you'll just be sending the message that if they throw a tantrum they can get their way. Now compare this to a dog, a dog with recurrent bad behavior is usually the result of the owner babying their dog, letting them do whatever they want without setting boundaries or even correcting them.

    You don't have to train a dog intensively to get results, all you have to do is to set clear boundaries and let the dog know what it is. You don't have to catch a dog to train it out of barking. When a dog barks at the door, go to the door and tell your dog "No" or you can teach your dog the command "Quiet" and use it, or you can use Dark_Side's method which works like a Shock Collar but without the discomfort you'll inflict on your dog.

    Now if you want to teach a dog "Quiet" you'll first have to let your dog bark, when he does use a word like "Speak" or "Bark" as the command, then reward him. Let him associate barking with that word. Once he has familiarized himself with the command you can then move onto the next step, letting him learn "Quiet". Ask your dog to "Bark" and the moment he does make a "stop it" gesture along with the word "Quiet", repeat until he quiets down, then reward him. Once he is familiar with it you can use it when he is being noisy and he'll quiet down.

    Rewards-based training are usually much more effective than shock collars or any other training methods. A dog will be much more likely to cooperate when its enjoying itself. Forcing a dog to do anything with pain, no matter how gentle or minuscule, would only be a precursor to the dog eventually repaying you with the same methods you used on it, pain.

    Edit: Forgot to mention this but if you watch Super Nanny or It's me or the dog, you'll notice a lot of similarities with the way dogs and kids are disciplined. Both shows disapprove of hitting/beating or pain-inflicting in general, rather they get things done by communicating, settings rules and boundaries and being consistent with their correction when a rule is broken. Simple things really, but somehow so many people find it hard to do.

    squinut on
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    Eat_FireEat_Fire Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    squinut wrote: »
    Eat_Fire wrote: »
    squinut wrote: »
    Just because a dog is tiny doesn't mean it can't bite you where it hurts.

    Congrats, you have earned yourself an award in Being a Dick, maybe if you grind your dick levels you'll finally earn an Asshole of Invincibility, and then you'll be impervious to damage from Actions without Consideration.

    Edit: So you edited your post.

    Shock collars are for owners who want to take the shortcut without regards for the mental or physical well-being of their pets. Would you seriously use a shock collar on your misbehaving kid? Or a traumatized kid? Now then would you put a dog in a situation that would be counted as abusive if it were a kid?

    If you said yes to all of that then hooray for you.

    It appears you have never read the directions on a shock collar box. Shock callers are not for extended use.You put them on your dog for a few hours at a time. Also training a dog is impossible when your at work. I am sure some people on this forum have been on the giving/receiving end of a noise complaint because of a barking dog.Keep in mind not everyone is an agile young person able to move through their house to catch their dog for "redirection" the second they start barking.

    If you feel that any sort of physical discipline is wrong, simple state so and put it out there. There is no reason to just write flame posts. Yes, I did edit my post, the original post is exactly the same except I added information. To anwser your question "I would consider a shock caller for my hypothetical offspring if they had the mind of a dog and a barking issue when I leave them at my house when I go to work. The second part does not apply as I would not abuse my child. A shock caller is not really an applicable device for a child, however I can point out plenty of kids who have never been physically disciplined in their life, just by looking around. "

    ***ZOMG Edit***
    2 cool points to the response that is a rewording of my last sentence.

    Off topic but I have to apologize. I am sorry for sounding like an asshole, I was stressed out and your post just fired me up. I overreacted and said some really shitty things which I shouldn't have said no matter the circumstances, and I am sorry for inflicting it on you. Hopefully you aren't too mad so lets just put this behind us.

    A dog is like a small child in some ways, they depend wholly on their owners for survival and however they turn out is also dependent on how their owner trains/brings them up. A shock collar is not something I would use unless there is really nothing else. Kids turn out like brats simply because their parents won't say no. If your child throws a tantrum and you give in to them you'll just be sending the message that if they throw a tantrum they can get their way. Now compare this to a dog, a dog with recurrent bad behavior is usually the result of the owner babying their dog, letting them do whatever they want without setting boundaries or even correcting them.

    You don't have to train a dog intensively to get results, all you have to do is to set clear boundaries and let the dog know what it is. You don't have to catch a dog to train it out of barking. When a dog barks at the door, go to the door and tell your dog "No" or you can teach your dog the command "Quiet" and use it, or you can use Dark_Side's method which works like a Shock Collar but without the discomfort you'll inflict on your dog.

    Now if you want to teach a dog "Quiet" you'll first have to let your dog bark, when he does use a word like "Speak" or "Bark" as the command, then reward him. Let him associate barking with that word. Once he has familiarized himself with the command you can then move onto the next step, letting him learn "Quiet". Ask your dog to "Bark" and the moment he does make a "stop it" gesture along with the word "Quiet", repeat until he quiets down, then reward him. Once he is familiar with it you can use it when he is being noisy and he'll quiet down.

    Rewards-based training are usually much more effective than shock collars or any other training methods. A dog will be much more likely to cooperate when its enjoying itself. Forcing a dog to do anything with pain, no matter how gentle or minuscule, would only be a precursor to the dog eventually repaying you with the same methods you used on it, pain.

    Edit: Forgot to mention this but if you watch Super Nanny or It's me or the dog, you'll notice a lot of similarities with the way dogs and kids are disciplined. Both shows disapprove of hitting/beating or pain-inflicting in general, rather they get things done by communicating, settings rules and boundaries and being consistent with their correction when a rule is broken. Simple things really, but somehow so many people find it hard to do.


    Water under the bridge squinut.

    So is noone gonna link the video of that lady claiming her small dog bites her in the vagina when animal control come to take her dog? :P

    Eat_Fire on
    -Updating life to SP1-
  • Options
    squinutsquinut Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    Wow I wonder what she must've been doing for her dog to be able to bite her there, and of course link please?

    squinut on
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    mtsmts Dr. Robot King Registered User regular
    edited May 2008
    the problem with little dogs is that people don't got trought the effort of training them as much as those who have larger dogs. its the "oh he is just being cute" phenomenom. the most misbehaved evil dogs i have seen were tiny little punters.

    you can't get away with having a ill behaved larger dog like you can with a small one.

    I don't remember if you said the ages of the two dogs. it could be a crotchety old dog doesn't want
    the younger more exhuberant dog near it.
    my dog will put down younger puppies who get up in her face too much. it may look aggressive, but its dog talk for back the fuck up.

    we used to take out our neighbors dog who was fairly dog aggressive, it was the sweetest dog, except when it saw a dog other than ours. what worked were leash pops and praising for the right response.. it worked quickly.

    i actually thingk that unless the OP's maltese was acting in fear,, the rolling it on its back/pinning it would have worked. it shows you do not approve of the way its acting

    mts on
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