What to do: career versus debt racking "school"

Jasconius

I have encountered one of the first true quandaries in life.

Here is the setting: I have been working for about 1 and a half years as a web developer for a great company in Tampa. I have job security by the truck loads, the pay is mediocre overall (though exceptional for a 21 year old) but it is enough to sustain my simple lifestyle and modest tastes. I am talented and I aspire to one day (probably between 1 to 3 years in the future) move up to the big leagues of my field, depending on what direction my current company and side ventures take.

I also go to a shitty fucking money pit career education bootcamp called the International Academy of Design and Technology (http://www.academy.edu). They sell snake oil, on average the quality of my classes and professors has been below that of high school and by the time I realized it I felt that in my station in life I really couldn't afford to abandon it and get stuck with 40k worth of school loans and no degree. I have been here for exactly 3 years at the end of this current quarter and I am four classes away from graduation.

What prompted me to this thread is I have to re-register for classes this week and it requires me to take out yet another school loan. Rather than work with students on an individual basis they require you to pre-approve yourself for a cover-all full time attendance sum of 20,000 fucking dollars, which is grossly higher than what I will actually need (approx 6,000) to finish school.

Unfortunately, taking out 40k of school loans in my own name and an unfortunate uninsured emergency hospitalization have left my credit "OK" rather than "Good" and I can no longer be approved for such a ludicrous amount on my own. I have no credit worthy family members that are willing to co-sign with me, and my closest friends are currently being reserved in that regard because they seek to buy a house soon. So I basically have no options right now. I recently purchased a car which puts me in even more debt and I seriously doubt my ability to take out a private loan for the exact amount I need to finish my degree.

The reason why this doesn't angst me too much is because I feel personally (and many others close to me and familiar with the field) echo my sentiments that the degree I am working towards is essentially worthless. The accreditation is questionable (ie not accepted by some state universities, especially ones in Florida where the actual school is located) and the actual course name "Interactive Media Development" is sort of... narrow, whereas most people in my field come from a Comp Sci background. (I primarily do HTML/Javascript/Actionscript programming and a moderate helping of ASP.NET). Also being in the web field it seems there is a lot more emphasis on work experience and work examples than education, even the highest end employers in the field go by either degree or equivalent experience (which I am currently accruing).

As I write this I am at a juncture and that is I feel that at this point it is wise for me to take a quarter off, thus delaying my graduation even more (original grad date was June 08, current Dec 08, would be pushed back to March 09). The school does allow for students to take the summer off without penalty. So I think I will do that but right now I am questioning if I should just not simply withdraw.

6,000 is a lot on top of my already substantial debt. My education has done nothing for me except get my foot firmly in the door. My subsequent promotions and the doubling of my salary over a period of 12 months had nothing to do with anything I got from this school, and my employers know that. School for the past year has been nothing but an inconvenience for myself and my employers who have been very gracious with working with my class schedules but are dying for me to get in a full time rhythm. Quitting would allow me devote myself fully to my career and to finally get my meager social life on track. Staying will simply get me a piece of paper who's true worth in the future is questionable.

So here are my options

Option A: Take a quarter off and resume in Fall, praying that I can get the requisite funds
Option B: Quit permanently, mind you 4 classes (6 months on my schedule) from graduation but saving 6 grand and allowing me to devote my energies to more productive things.

I'd especially like to hear peoples take on the value of holding a bachelors degree in the web field.

TIA

jefe414

If you have any intentions of working for a corporation EVER, make sure to get the degree. In many cases (and in my experience) that piece of paper is worth more than anything else. Just getting my MBA (which has NO bearing on my job) made me worth more money at my next promotion. Some jobs don't require a degree, but you don't want not taking those courses to come and bite you in the ass 5 years down the road.

Taking time off from school to save cash isn't a bad idea, just make sure you go back and finish those 4 classes eventually (sooner rather than later of course). Take 6 months, a year, whatever. You could also look into transfering to another school (state schools generally have decent tuition). Remember, you just want that piece of paper for potential future use. In most cases other schools will only transfer 2 years worth of credits. Check out your options before you make a final decision. 21 is still young in the grand scheme of things so don't let time be your pressure.

Thanatos

This is a really simple to answer question: is your degree worth $6000 and the time spent on a quarter's worth of classes?

I suspect the answer is "yes."

Serpent

Thanatos wrote: »

This is a really simple to answer question: is your degree worth $6000 and the time spent on a quarter's worth of classes?

I suspect the answer is "yes."

Just do it.

Staxeon

I'm a firm advocate of real world skills versus book skills. Everyone I know has tens of thousands of dollars in student loan debt and none of them are actually using their degrees. Whether you have that piece of paper or not, opportunity (ie, finding a good job) usually is just that, opportunity. I'm a college dropout, but now have 10 years experience in my field and that's what got me my current position (network analyst for a financial institution). Given that, I'm usually on the other side of the arguement of "mandatory college" when the discussion comes up.

BUT, given that, I recognize the glass ceiling. If you ever want to work your way up the ladder to a management-type position you're going to need a degree. Its not to prove your own skills or value, its for the company to pump its own chest and make them feel better, that you're somehow more refined and a better representative of their brand. Its really lame and just a hoop to jump through but you'll need it. Just like jefe said, it might not hurt you now but 5-10 years from now you may get passed over for a promotion over some idiot with a bachelors in basket weaving.

starmanbrand

Basic economic theory: Enter the opportunity cost.

In this situation you have the ability to leave school and start making money now and incur no more expenses from school. This leaves you with more money but limited earning power.

You also have the ability to incur the cost of school and suffer the lack of work to get a degree. The degree will , most likely, give you better opportunities in the future. There is a good chance that sometime in the future you will have made BACK the money you chose not to earn by going to school and missing out on work. and then probably surpass that.

I'm going to side with the majority and say..Finish it. Don't limit yourself. The situation may suck now, but it may pay off. Chances are in the future you will want a degree. Why not get it now when you have the time and energy?

Lewisham

Serpent wrote: »

Thanatos wrote: »

This is a really simple to answer question: is your degree worth $6000 and the time spent on a quarter's worth of classes?

I suspect the answer is "yes."

Just do it.

Yep. If this was year 1, and you saw the writing on the wall about the institution (really, didn't you notice sooner? You're a clever guy), I would have said save yourself the money and save up to go to a stronger school where you will get something valuable to you.

However, with only one quarter left, you should just do it, you've spent too much time/money to drop out now.

supabeast

Just finish.

Jasconius

Lewisham wrote: »

Serpent wrote: »

Thanatos wrote: »

This is a really simple to answer question: is your degree worth $6000 and the time spent on a quarter's worth of classes?

I suspect the answer is "yes."

Just do it.

Yep. If this was year 1, and you saw the writing on the wall about the institution (really, didn't you notice sooner? You're a clever guy), I would have said save yourself the money and save up to go to a stronger school where you will get something valuable to you.

However, with only one quarter left, you should just do it, you've spent too much time/money to drop out now.

Yeah I didn't notice sooner because I really didn't know anything until I got into the field. I had suspicions but with virtually zero support from my family and barely making it in slacker jobs the idea of changing schools and basically restarting (because the credits from this school are not transferrable to Florida state colleges) seemed out of reach at the time.

I talked to my boss about it this evening and they pretty much echo what most people here are saying as far as having the degree is sort of like a badge of honor on a resume.

So, it looks like I will just take the summer off and try and relax. Obviously this being a particularly shitty school and with them giving me the financial aid run around I was ready to crack some skulls. Also try and save up to pay the tuition out of pocket.

Jasconius

One of the things I am reading on one of my loan rejection notes is that my

"Proportion of balances to credit limits on bank/national revolving or other revolving accounts is too high"

Does that mean I have too much potential debt?

All of my credit cars have 0 dollars on their balances, and I have a credit limit of about 1,500 total, not counting my AMEX which has no technical limit. So I can't see how that sentence means I have too much CC debt accrued, since I have precisely zero.

GameHat

Jasconius wrote: »

One of the things I am reading on one of my loan rejection notes is that my

"Proportion of balances to credit limits on bank/national revolving or other revolving accounts is too high"

Does that mean I have too much potential debt?

All of my credit cars have 0 dollars on their balances, and I have a credit limit of about 1,500 total, not counting my AMEX which has no technical limit. So I can't see how that sentence means I have too much CC debt accrued, since I have precisely zero.

Well, you said yourself you've taken out some hefty student loans. Add your car loan into this. So your total debt is pretty high, yes?

Credit agencies look at more than just credit debt - you said you have zero credit debt, which is great, but if you're sitting on several tens of k of other debt, yeah, credit issuers will get a bit nervous.

I agree with the others in this thread - finish this degree. You're so close - even if the school is crap, having a degree really does mean a lot in corporate world. For example, one of my good friends is really great at his job, has about 10 years experience on me but has been told explicitly he will never be promoted because he never finished his bachelor's degree. Contrast to me - young, little experience, but in every review I'm told that I will be promoted if I keep up my current performance. Is it fair? Is it bullshit? Maybe, maybe not. But in large corporations they set filters, and one of those is a degree.

My advice would be to push hard to get the loan you need to finish a degree at your school. Just get through that and maintain your zero credit debt - the degree will probably pay off.

Serpent

if you have $1500 of credit cards, with $0 balance, creditors will notice that you have $1500 of potential debt.

ihmmy

if you want to work for any other organization ever, just do it. I know, it sucks hairy balls, but it's only a few more months and then you're done

Staxeon

Serpent wrote: »

if you have $1500 of credit cards, with $0 balance, creditors will notice that you have $1500 of potential debt.

That's actually the old school creditor line of thought (1990's), where they saw a zero balance as "well this guy could go out tomorrow and max this thing out". Now a days they will look at the history and if you've had that zero balance for several months they see it as control, and its points for you.

Jasconius

But the phrase "revolving" i know is directly referring to my credit cards, since school loans and car loans and medical bills are "individual" debts, or something (it starts with an I).

So I have to take that to mean it's referencing my credit cards somehow.

I mean, it's sort of a secondary issue, two of the four points off against me were my medical bills of which one is in collections (but on hold, being paid off). So even if I dealt with the other two it would still be hard.

I need to whip out the calculator this weekend and see if I can actually pay out of pocket...