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How do I meet women for romance?
TwoQuestions
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
After looking at a great many other threads here in H/A, I have narrowed my relationship difficulty down to one fatal flaw: I cannot meet women without becoming the 'best friend' rather than the 'romantic interest'. For a bit of backstory, I am a 22 year old computer science major at BGSU and I work almost every waking second that I am out of class. My weekends are free, which I usually spend at home. I have absolutely no trouble at all meeting and socializing with classmates, including ones I find very attractive, without betraying the fact that I am romantically interested rather than friendly. Everyone at my work is at least 10 years older than I am (it's strange, I know, especially in a college town) so no go there.
Most every attempt to confess my more-than-friendly intentions has resulted in my being ostracized by the target of my affections, for some reason. I try to be as direct as possible when going for the final confession, something to the effect of "Would you like to get some coffee sometime?" or "How about we go see [current popular movie]?". I ask just as I have seen friends ask other people out, successfully, and have only failed miserably. I already know the soul-scarring results of looking for long-term romance in a bar, from other's experience.
I can make friends all day, but it is a most exquisite pain being friends with someone that you are very interested in, then they grow comfortable enough around you to talk about their love lives.
The worst part is, I really do want to be friends with whomever I become involved in, so my affection makes me care more about their happiness, even if it is not with me.
I'm neither bad looking nor lacking in at least some charm, so I don't know what's holding me back so badly. I am about sick and tired of being alone, so does anyone know where and how to meet someone and reliably communicate my romantic intentions rather than another friend?
TL;DR version, I'm lonely and can't seem to meet people. What would you recommend?
Most every attempt to confess my more-than-friendly intentions has resulted in my being ostracized by the target of my affections, for some reason. I try to be as direct as possible when going for the final confession, something to the effect of "Would you like to get some coffee sometime?" or "How about we go see [current popular movie]?". I ask just as I have seen friends ask other people out, successfully, and have only failed miserably. I already know the soul-scarring results of looking for long-term romance in a bar, from other's experience.
I can make friends all day, but it is a most exquisite pain being friends with someone that you are very interested in, then they grow comfortable enough around you to talk about their love lives.
The worst part is, I really do want to be friends with whomever I become involved in, so my affection makes me care more about their happiness, even if it is not with me.I'm neither bad looking nor lacking in at least some charm, so I don't know what's holding me back so badly. I am about sick and tired of being alone, so does anyone know where and how to meet someone and reliably communicate my romantic intentions rather than another friend?
TL;DR version, I'm lonely and can't seem to meet people. What would you recommend?
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Also, bars as places to ask people out: it depends on what bar and what people, obviously. I don't know if you speak the way you write, but your writing comes across as formal and almost stiff. You're at your most attractive when you're relaxed and confident, not when you're formal, so going out, having a few drinks and a good time, and chatting up other people who are doing the same thing might be good for you. Quality girls do like to drink in bars sometimes, you know. You could also try working a little less and getting involved in school activities more.
But the part you really need to get down is: flirt, flirt, flirt. Master the art of friendly flirting and flirt with every girl you meet. (Not in a creepy way, obviously.) If you're not the girl's type, she'll still think you're charming and friendly if you flirt right, and if you are her type, well, obviously flirting will be to your advantage there, too.
The key is to do things to express interest way before you ask someone out - the fact that you even have to make a "final confession" betrays you as the type who will surprise a girl with more-than-friendly and seemingly out-of-nowhere intentions. Establish physical contact and interest early by just touching a girl briefly on the upper arm for emphasis, or when leaving. If you approach her for contact, lightly touch/scratch her on the back or arm in addition to announcing yourself. If you ever find yourself leading her through a crowd, offer your hand without saying anything, and see if she takes it. Etc etc. These are things that signal interest without putting someone in a corner.
The reason we flirt is to get our feelings out in the open early, so that there's no question of intentions. If you do things right, and you flirt with a girl who seems to accept or even return your signals, asking said girl for her number or for her date will be a piece of cake, and there will be very low risk of misunderstanding or rejection - if she wants you as a friend or simply is not interested, she'll weed herself out during the flirtation phase.
There IS, of course, risk of being creepy. You obviously need to keep things in moderation and not do anything to violate boundaries, but try not to let fear of being sketchy prevent you from flirting altogether. Once you do it enough, you'll get a handle on what amount is "right" and what is too much.
I mean, they do, and being friends first is pretty nice sometimes- but even within that context, those people have two different ways of dealing with that person. The friend way, and the 'romantic' way. It's starts of as one, and then becomes the other; the basic nature of how those social interactions are taking place changes.
You need to develop the differences between these two states of mind - you won't treat your girlfriend exactly as you would any other friend, there are distinct differences between the two. You're not a bad guy for not following up a romantic shutdown with a friendship. Sometimes you just have to get out there and 'cruise', Romance Only Please.
Mostly, a girl is going to know within just a few minutes of meeting you, as to whether or not anything more physical or intimate is going down. Put it out there - This is What I am Looking For - so your time isn't wasted on people you don't have a shot with. Making friends is great, no lies, but there is a time for howdya-do's and a time for getting down. Make the time to pursue your own interests. Be discerning in whom you choose to make friends with.
I'm not saying go be a dick when you are looking for romance, I'm saying that essentially, romance is an odds game, and if you're all quirky and intelligent, you need to meet a lot of people in order to find a match for yourself. You can spend a whackload of time developing new freindships- in fact, as you're finding out, you can spend all of your time developing friendships, and accidently leave yourself with no time to pursue romantic interests.
It appears as though your time for friendship development is unbalanced with your time dedicated to finding a partner, because up until this point you've considered this as the same type of action- they are not. Building a social network can certainly aid in partner seeking, but is not the same thing at all as going about and actually trying to find a girlfriend.
In one, you are looking for more long term connection opportunities, creating that shared kharma that friends have to be useful for each other. In the other you are looking for attraction and chemistry first, and then looking to build a relationship based on the attraction momentum. A friend who is not attracted to you likely never will be (barring major changes in yourself as a person), but people who are attracted to you can easily become your friends.
Many times, when attraction doesn't work out for whatever reason, those friendships don't work out very well either (i.e. exes). Again, another reason why these two pools are (almost) completely different groups of people, we choose who we like and build friendships with them, a talented person can be friends with almost anyone. Attraction is much more selective, we can't always help what we are attracted to, and as a result, even the most amazingly heart-wrenching attractions don't always make for good relationships.
Because attraction is the more selective process of the two, when you are looking for a partner, attraction needs to be established as a primary criteria. If they aren't into you, they aren't what you're looking for. Cut your losses (be nice, but be ready to move on) and try again. You aren't looking for new people to meet just to meet them, keep in mind you are looking for people to meet who will be attracted to what you have to offer.
Obviously, use your own judgement as to when to engage in making new freinds vs. looking for a partner, one wants to do both. But make time for each type of behavior, separate them out conciously, or it'll just turn into an emotionally frustrating mess.
I guess the keyword here is that we need to flirt more, both physically and verbally, to get our intentions out and receive feedback from the target. Well I can't speak for TwoQuestions, of course, but my problem is with flirting itself. I have trouble hitting a target between the innocent "let's be friends" level and the outright "hey you want to date?" thing. And on the receptive end, I tend to misunderstand the signals I get, sometimes missing some obvious signs of interest and sometimes taking innocent comments as meaning more than they do. I'm also a fairly no-touching guy, so that's something else I'll have to get over.
So how do I improve myself?
Once again, you guys have been most helpful.
Again:
Flirting can be done in many ways, choosing what is wise depends on 2 things: what do you feel comfortable with and what does the other party appreciate.
You can be physical by touching someone's hand or leaning over them a bit closer than necessary etc. Or you can look at them a bit longer than needed, maybe smile at them.
Speech is also a possibility, horrible pick-up lines should probably be avoided unless you know the girl well enough to know she'd appreciate it. Otherwise compliments are nice, just don't say something a friend would say, "I like your shoes" is not a turn-on, telling her she has beautiful eyes might be appreciated more. Most people like people who are funny, witty or come off as very honest.
For me flirting is all about taking a gamble: it is possible the girl doesn't notice it, does not appreciate it or lets loose the hounds on you (protip: run like hell). By flirting you show that you are confident enough to put yourself out there for her. Those last 2 words are what most people like about flirting: someone else is indirectly telling them that they are an interesting person.
Complimenting someone's eyes is a good call, because it strikes the balance between being possibly harmless and possibly a come-on. You don't want to be too harmless and become a friend or too over the top I-want-you. If you can strike a balance and have the other person wondering if you're interested in them, that makes them more likely to be interested in you. Almost everybody wants to be desired, but few like the "let loose the hounds" approach of coming on way too strong, whether male or female.
Joke around, compliment, and tease, but always try to keep it light hearted and fun. If you toss around any sexual innuendo, err far to the side of joking rather than creepy. The only other general thing I can say is to practice as much as you can. Flirt with married women, since if you're doing it right they won't be creeped out and you'll keep yourself from coming on too strong.
If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
i could write ten pages on this, and still not really convey much. Find someone who is excellent at flirting. Ask for advice, and watch them in action. This is really the only way you'll learn.
Also, don't be afraid to make mistakes. Your first few attempts at flirting are going to end poorly. Don't sweat it.
What really, really helped me was getting fit. I've spent a year or so working out pretty consistently, and honestly, I am a much better looking person than I was a year ago. Having a fitter body helps in and of itself, of course, but what it really helped was my self confidence. If you don't ever exercise, try getting in a little, even if it is just push-ups in the morning when you get up or something. It really helps the confidence.
Personally, I think that flirting is pretty much the hardest thing to do in the world. I just try to find a common interest and ask questions about it. When you hit those quiet gaps where you can't think of anything to say, go simple. Bullshit small-talk subjects like the weather, sports teams, or the environment you are currently in might seem like cheesy things to talk about, but usually both participants feel just as awkward and are just as happy to have anything to talk about.
Good luck from a fellow sufferer!
That being said, here is something I have noticed.
People are addicted to information - they can't help but sense things, and as a result, new sensations, novelties, are instinctivly sought after. A person in this context is simply a highly complex filtering and absorbtion mechanism for information traffic, via the five (or six or seven) senses we use to explore the world.
Because our culture bombards us with information all the time, most people go about their lives closed off to most of the information coming in, and stays focused on the things that are most meaningful and most applicable. A person also gives off thier own information all of the time; via movements, speech, dress; really anything that is a product of thier free will, the natural result of thier personality interacting with the things around them.
For example, the way you dress indicates your focus on information coming in from the fashion world, your interest in it, your association with whatever flavor of it, and the decisions you made (ie purchases to wear) in regards to it. Disregarding certain streams (ie Cosmo) in favor of others (ie close friends) is as much a statement as actively following a published or more public stream of this info. Because people pretty much always wear clothes (and if not, thier body maintenance is their fashion statement) this is a stream of info you are always putting out there- something about yourself, unique to yourself.
Catch the iceberg there? Clothing is just one small part of the signals you are giving off all the time, and the stuff you currently have on you is just one small part of that. And everything you do and are, everything you show and present about yourself is like that. A part of a part. Now, back to people filtering off information.
Everybody does this because there is too much information being presented about any one person at any one time, so only a small amount of processing is dedicated to figuring out other people. Most folks stop at the 'gist' of a person - oh that's a cowboy, oh that's a goth, oh that's some aging knucklebuster having a beer. We have a baseline feel for any new person, and we as people pass that first judgement off almost instantly- it's a coping strategy for the deluge of info we are presented with all the time.
In order to establish a new relationship, you have to break past that initial 'gist', and thus aquire more processing time about yourself as a person. The resistance you feel internally when talking to someone for the first time is you breaking that barrier. You will always be able to get one 'thing' out there, a statement, a look, something- because up until that very instant, there is a wall between you and that person, and you can't really be rejected until you cross over it.
Flirting is the act of opening up the communication channels between yourself and (for the purposes of this explanation, ymmv) a member of the opposite sex. Speaking is one such channel, one sense people have. Sight, taste, touch, and smell, all have their own channels - and thier own bit of processing power to handle them. The goal of flirtation is to gain enough processing, enough focus, to generate continued interest within another person.
Here's the catch: as much as people process, they also filter, and we (people) filter off unpleasent or uninteresting streams of information, so we can busy ourselves with the pleasent and actually interesting. So when you speak and sound like a dick, when you look unkept or unpleasent, if you smell terrible, if you are offensive or clumsy with your movements, or leave a bad taste in someones mouth when they are in your company, you are likely to get filtered out, one stream at a time. Disregarded and/or ignored. If you try to break someones active filter against you, then you move onward into out and out rejection.
You pretty much get two streams right off the bat- sight and smell. When you add a third to this, speech, you've got enough info coming off of you to make a call. Once these sense are engaged, and the person receiving that information finds them pleasent enough to be allowed to continue, a fourth, touch is quickly added, and information about how you move and touch is now presented. Again if this goes well, people share food, or drinks or the libation of the moment, and share for a while the same taste sensation and experience.
With all five senses engaged, that person is now focused on you, and if they like what they are getting from all five, or at least, a pleasent average with all things accounted for, they are thinking enough about you to meaningfully exchange information back and forth with you. The longer you can share in this kind of exchange, the more interest you generate in the relationship itself, because relationships of all kinds are judged by the positive outcome of these kinds of experiences, and an understanding of the mutual benefit they bring.
You'll hear a lot of bits about flirting being amusing or funny- because it will be. Laughter, comedy, humor, are all sudden intakes of information, and genuine laughter or amusement means that the information has been deemed as pleasent or good. You can also make people smile and laugh just by being yourself- when we smile at another person, it means we find them pleasent, and that the signals and information they are exuding is acceptable. Many people are great to be around even though they don't tell jokes or come up with witty comments- whatever they are presenting is interesting and unique to that specific insight, so it is still sought after and desired by others.
Long-term relationships are an agreement between people that with all things considered, life experiences and the constant interactions one has with thier partner, are positive and beneficial to themselves as an individual. You 'practice' or setup one of these but starting off with one short-term experience - the first time you really get to know someone - and when that goes well, there is another shared moment and exchange, and another and so forth until those individual moments take up enough time that they all start running into each other.
Before you know it, the 'moment' becomes one contiguous series of events, and viola- relationship.
So in conclusion, be aware of what signals you are giving off in all five senses. Actively comment on the positive signals you see in others, so that they know they are being accepted (remember they want the same things everybody else does). Find out what kinds of information that person likes (interests, statements, life stories) and ask questions you really, genuinely want to know the answers to. Be interested in them, and be honest about that interest.
Know when you are being filtered so you can move on or switch topics without being rejected. If you are sensitive to the hints, you won't get clubbed with the hammer. Take a look at that girl who caught your eye and notice something in all five areas before you even start. Be honest as to whether or not her signals are a match for what you have to offer. Don't be afraid to take chances- everybody is an iceberg, showing just one small part of a whole, but don't be retarded either- the part that is showing is still a valid and genuine reflection of some part of them.
Pick your targets, show some taste- a compliment means more if you aren't handing them out to every girl in the room. Stand for what is right, and don't stand for the things that aren't. You are who you are; ensure that it is something worthwhile, and worthwhile people will want to be with you.
The goal is to let them know you'd like to get to know them better without putting the "please date me" pressure on. A sort of casual maybe more kinda deal.
Other advice:
-It's perfectly OK to ask her if she wants to bring friends because you have friends on the first time out. Just make sure your friends aren't C-blockers.
-Try to be specific when you ask her to go somewhere. Have a place or two in mind that you know are cool hang outs.
It's Super Effective!
...moving on...
Thanks for the advice thus far, but just one more question (I know I ask more than two), where exactly would be a good place to meet people? The Student Union looks good, but people usually have some sort of purpose there which I would feel very awkward by breaking in and saying "Hi, what's up?", especially if they happen to get hit on all the time by more experienced flirters (read: all of them) than I.
I'm usually very good at talking to people who have nothing to do and are waiting for something, like the beginning of class or something. Trouble with that is as a CS student, most of my classes are sausage-fests, making it impossible for a novice flirter like me to begin to convey even mildly romantic intentions.
Luckily, my fear of getting my ass kicked is at an all time low being I joined the SCA for heavy combat (Go Fen Militia!) not too long ago, so as long as I'm not gonna get shot I'm good.
I was a CS major in college, and I never had this problem. Learn how to network. Make new friends among your CS buddies in your classes, and go hang out with different people to play games, cards, whatever it is you have a fun time doing.
Honestly, actively trying to meet women has never worked out for me. I've always met my girlfriends randomly through friends, in class, or doing whatever particular nerdy thing I am doing at the moment. Hell, I was playing DDR at the Student Union one night with a friend, and a girl I had seen that lives in my dorm came and watched me with a friend. I went to talk to them, 2 hours later I had a date for the next day.
Don't worry about it too much. Just make a conscious effort to meet more people, and it will happen.
Such as: We met at X, then whether you hung out from there/what happened, how did you get to know her or did you ask her out right away. Then maybe a quick example of the dialogue when you went to ask her out?
I just think it might help me give more targetted advice.
Her way of responding happens to be tormenting the everloving crap out of me while I play. Now, we get along fairly well, we talk whenever I show up, and that's about it. This isn't rocket science, just be yourself. Even if the person you're trying to befriend thinks you're weird for being a nerd, people respond to a friendly attitude and a smile, and usually they don't care. It's who you are, and while absolutely none of my current friends are nerds, they all know that it's part of who I am and they just don't care.
I won't give a transcript of my conversations, because I feel very strongly that you should BE YOURSELF when meeting new people, and the worst way to do that is to use pre-scripted responses.
tl;dr People who think nerds can't make friends need to make more friends.
...too many to count... but here's one example:
One person from one of my classes. We me the previous semester, but we were only acquaintances. We knew each other's names and majors, but that was about it. We sit by each other for two classes, and during the second class I develop affection. I ask her for help with a particular piece of homework (I suck at this class, and she kicks ass), we go do said homework, see you later, and that was that.
Later she gives me a quarter off something I bought at where she happened to work. The place was packed, and being the big dumbass I am I tried to give exact change. I was short, but she gave me what I bought anyway
Thanks onceling, hope that helps!
As I've gotten older, I've gotten much better at flirting. What sucks is that I'm married. I mean, it's great, but being married and in a stable relationship has made me much better at flirting, which is like being an awesome skiier but living in Jamaica.
Sarcastro's post is filled with great information, and mirrors most of what I've learned as well. To flirt with someone, or to even talk, you need to have a connection. I say that I got better at it as I got older because now I'm more fit and I dress much better. I shop for clothes that flatter my body and make me look good, rather than just covering me or displaying a band name. I don't even own a pair of jeans, as corduroy, cotton twill, and other fabrics/weaves can be casual without looking "lazy" like most denim. I've adopted more casual slang in my "colloquial verbiage" so that, even though I'm a smart dude, I don't make myself seem like some ivory tower intellectual -- I'm "just a guy."
But, and this is the thing that being married has taught me, I've also discovered that what you THINK you're attracted to, and what will actually work, are two very different things. My wife is very attractive and cute, but she doesn't look like a model. She's not tall and blonde with a size 0 waist. Now, I may think those models are nice to look at, but I know from being with my wife that it would never work out, because they're very likely just too different of a person. My wife's a geek, and will happily spend an evening hacking at CSS, maybe taking a break to play Pixeljunk Monsters (and not with me, she'll play 2p by herself).
But when I was dating women, I would often try to get involved with someone who I thought was cute yet came from an entirely different place. I'm an atheist yet would try to go out with regular churchgoing girls. I really don't like popular music yet tried to get a date with someone who could listen to U2 for days and days. And it's not all that different from seeing a girl who obviously spent an hour getting ready (and looking well coordinated) outright rejecting a guy wearing a t-shirt, unshaven, etc.
There's always exceptions, but playing the expectations game well is a good way to get your foot in the door. If you want to date someone, use the same "rules" that Sarcastro noted but in reverse -- use your impression of someone to see if you think you'd be compatible at all. There's a lot of cute girls out there, but you can usually determine from how they dress or style their hair or even just how they carry themselves what their personality may be like.
These aren't universal traits, and people are inherently deeper than you'll guess from first impressions, but using how people present themselves to the world as a jumping off point is essentialy how you meet people, both friends and more. Think of it like a job interview -- if you're in a suit, you look more serious than someone in a t-shirt because you look professional. If you're wearing a ThinkGeek t-shirt, you'll probably only have luck with a girl also wearing a geeky t-shirt -- even though many girls are also geeks. Similarly, that goth-girl won't give you the time of day if you're wearing a salmon-colored polo, even if you both play WoW.
I dunno, I found that I got a lot better at flirting just by changing two basic elements of my attitude. First, I learned to genuinely enjoy getting attention from women without any expectations of a hook-up. If you just enjoy yourself in the moment, and learn to appreciate and have fun with just talking to an attractive woman, that'll help tenfold. Secondly, don't worry too much if they don't like you "in that way." In any negotiation, you only have power so long as you're willing to walk away from the table; meeting people is the same thing. If you can say to yourself, "I'm having fun right now and if I never see her again after this moment well there are plenty of other fish in the sea," you'll be a lot more relaxed and things will flow a little more naturally.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
So, unless it was like... December when you met her "by the end of the year" sounds like a pretty long time. I think that the advice in the thread is spot on. I think you need confidence, and after that, it will lead to natural flirting. It happened to me (I'm a girl though). I used to just shut down, and it wasn't until I lost a BUNCH of weight that I realized it wasn't that I sucked at relationships or sucked at finding boys, I was just so worried about my own self image that I wasn't giving off the right signals.
Nobody has to diet and lose weight in order to be confident, but everyone should consider it while assessing their level of confidence. What you eat makes a big difference to a lot of things. The guys I know (even skinny-as-a-pole ones) that eat Kraft dinner, take out and pizza all the time STINK to me (I have a pretty sensitive nose). Their breath and their B.O. is disgusting more than 50% of the time. Some of them have gas, skin problems, weight problems, the list goes on. Generally, eating well can lead to confidence because you know that in the middle of a date, you won't have to run to the bathroom to deal with the double cheeseburger you had for lunch, if you know what I mean :P
As the others have advised, don't underestimate the power that your clothing and appearance can have on YOURSELF, never mind the ladies. When you have made an effort to look good, others most often agree. Pay attention to having a regular haircut, keeping facial hair trimmed or clean shaven (as per your preference), a nice deodorant on and (as you can afford it) equip yourself with a sharp wardrobe and save the jeans and band shirts for outings with your buddies. If you are looking great when you step out the door every morning and are ready for anything, you won't need to worry about "shit I think this shirt has a smelly pit, better keep my arms down" while you're chatting with a friendly girl.
Getting fit and exercising is definitely a great option, and to meet people to. If you join a sporting club of any kind, as long as you enjoy it there, you could meet some great girls. Don't go if you hate it though. It's sorta the same as trying to find girls in bars/clubs if you hate bars and clubs. You're meeting the wrong kinds of people.
Essentially, try to free up your mind from the worries it has about yourself one by one, until you're cleared to focus on someone else. The truth is, it's a turn off for anyone when they are conversing with someone who appears distracted or hesitant. If you're too busy thinking about "Damn she wants to go somewhere now? I haven't showered yet" you're going to come across as uninterested. Be ready for what your heart and head want, in body, every morning as you step out. Don't short change yourself by being half-assed. The flirting will come naturally.
The eyes comment is a good one. Here's a sample of how it's been worked into conversation naturally:
Nice frames -> Where'd you get them? -> Did you ever consider contacts, I did -> I think colored contacts can be cool, but you should never get colored contacts, you have lovely eyes.
I'd rather wear something better, but whatever would be better, has to be something that isn't a recent repeat, needs to be a decent color or pattern, match the pants of choice, and you have to have shoes that match(I've got dress shoes that I'd never wear with jeans, and the next step down are almost sneakers).
Sometimes this might result in a combination I'm not quite comfortable with, and you don't want to be uncomfortable on a date.
Also, shopping is terrible.
But I think the point here is to dress nice-casual, as if you were going to casual Friday at a professional office. Nice jeans, nice shoes, button down or polo shirt... or MAYBE a solid color T-shirt if you can rock it (most people can't)... belt and shoes that match (can't stress this enough), clean shaven, nice hair.
Don't look like a slob, but you don't have to look all gussied up either.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
So definitely with clothing, don't just go buy things you see in magazines, and there's no need to start wearing a jacket everywhere. Shop around for pieces that you know you won't be able to resist when you go out because they feel good, look great and don't make you self-conscious.
I think stylish clothes can be comfortable for everyday wear, I just think people either get caught up in stylish meaning suits or ties (for guys) and/or shopping for brand without paying attention to how they fit you personally.
What do you mean "if you can rock it?". All my T-shirts are solid color. Is there anything wrong with that?
But most guys wear regular, unfitted t-shirts that are a size or two too big. An average guy of average build (assuming at least a small amount of muscle definition) wears a medium fitted T, but I know when I was in high school I always wore Large -- even though I was thinner and less built than I am now.
If you're very thing w/ no muscle definition, or you're somewhat overweight, most t-shirts will just look like you're slummin' it. Which is fine if it's the weekend or a weeknight and, you know, you're actually just slummin' it.
What Eggy said.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
BTW, does anyone think cologne is a good idea?
Sure, but for the love of god, be subtle. One squirt on the chest under the clothes.
I think you're going to find a lot of women like the natural men, so to speak, as well as women who like men that follow the metrosexual general trend.