At $32K you'd need to do a LOT of driving to make up for the price of the vehicle.
$32k isn't a lot of money if you're saving something like $500 a year. Of course that still depends on a lot of variables.
Hybrids are cheap these days, 4 banger civics - even cheaper.
Incorrect.
Orly?
Our 93 Civic automatic with >100k cost $2,000 gets upwards of 30 mpg. A new hybrid Civic costs $22,000 and averages (by fueleconomy.gov) 45 mpg.
Over the next 100,000 miles, the hybrid will use 1,111 fewer gallons of gas. In order for that to equal the difference in price, gas would have to average $18 a gallon during that time.
it also makes a major difference what speed you drive at, and what crap you leave in the back of the car to increase weight and drag. it also really matters if your tyres aren't the right pressure, as that causes major drag.
I pay attention to all of these things these days, and my mileage is much better than normal.
it also makes a major difference what speed you drive at, and what crap you leave in the back of the car to increase weight and drag. it also really matters if your tyres aren't the right pressure, as that causes major drag.
I pay attention to all of these things these days, and my mileage is much better than normal.
At $32K you'd need to do a LOT of driving to make up for the price of the vehicle.
$32k isn't a lot of money if you're saving something like $500 a year. Of course that still depends on a lot of variables.
Hybrids are cheap these days, 4 banger civics - even cheaper.
Incorrect.
Orly?
Our 93 Civic automatic with >100k cost $2,000 gets upwards of 30 mpg. A new hybrid Civic costs $22,000 and averages (by fueleconomy.gov) 45 mpg.
Over the next 100,000 miles, the hybrid will use 1,111 fewer gallons of gas. In order for that to equal the difference in price, gas would have to average $18 a gallon during that time.
Uh...you are also dealing with an old car with >100k more miles on it than a new car. This is not an apples to apples comparison, you are sweeping in massive price depreciation and comparative lifespans and maintenance requirements under the rug.
This whole line of discussion seems to be getting pretty stupid to me. Motorcycles!
Savant on
0
TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
At $32K you'd need to do a LOT of driving to make up for the price of the vehicle.
$32k isn't a lot of money if you're saving something like $500 a year.
Yeah it would only take you 64 years to make it up.
Assuming no other variables come into play, such as increased driving or increasing fuel prices, it's still a significant savings considering the instant and continuous depreciation seen in all cars.
You've not shown it to be a "savings" at all. There are much better (and easier!) ways to save cash than getting a hybrid. There are also much better (and easier!) ways to save the environment.
Edit: the best justification for getting a hybrid that I've seen is that it encourages the development of these technologies. Right now they kind of suck, since they cost a lot more than regular cars and get gas mileage that's not good enough to justify the additional cost.
We aren't discussing a hybrid. We're discussing an as-yet-nonexistent electric motorcycle powered by hypothetical free solar energy.
As for the fuel savings, the fact that the car will eventually pay for itself is enough to help retain the value of the vehicle, not to mention the fact that you don't need to recoup the entire cost to make it cost-effective.
TL DR on
0
TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
At $32K you'd need to do a LOT of driving to make up for the price of the vehicle.
$32k isn't a lot of money if you're saving something like $500 a year. Of course that still depends on a lot of variables.
Hybrids are cheap these days, 4 banger civics - even cheaper.
Incorrect.
Orly?
Our 93 Civic automatic with >100k cost $2,000 gets upwards of 30 mpg. A new hybrid Civic costs $22,000 and averages (by fueleconomy.gov) 45 mpg.
Over the next 100,000 miles, the hybrid will use 1,111 fewer gallons of gas. In order for that to equal the difference in price, gas would have to average $18 a gallon during that time.
When did you buy your civic? According to Kelly Blue Book and assuming your car has a cd player and is in good condition, it's worth about $1535. Here, here and here are the first three stock civics in that year with pictures listed on the New York City craigslist page. As you can see, only one of them approaches the KBB value. Of course, craigslist isn't exactly scientific, so I welcome another pricing method. But personally, I just got done chasing cars for over two weeks now. I'd routinely see something new listed online, call and schedule an appointment to see it the next day, and find it to be gone when I showed up. There has been a similar spike in demand for hybrids. Also, you're comparing a new and used car. A new car, when driven off the lot, immediately experiences a significant loss of value.
As El Jefe said, people are offering a pittance for SUVs right now, to be paid annually over 20 years in installments of 1/20th of a pittance.
At $32K you'd need to do a LOT of driving to make up for the price of the vehicle.
$32k isn't a lot of money if you're saving something like $500 a year.
Yeah it would only take you 64 years to make it up.
Assuming no other variables come into play, such as increased driving or increasing fuel prices, it's still a significant savings considering the instant and continuous depreciation seen in all cars.
You've not shown it to be a "savings" at all. There are much better (and easier!) ways to save cash than getting a hybrid. There are also much better (and easier!) ways to save the environment.
Edit: the best justification for getting a hybrid that I've seen is that it encourages the development of these technologies. Right now they kind of suck, since they cost a lot more than regular cars and get gas mileage that's not good enough to justify the additional cost.
We aren't discussing a hybrid. We're discussing an as-yet-nonexistent electric motorcycle powered by hypothetical free solar energy.
As for the fuel savings, the fact that the car will eventually pay for itself is enough to help retain the value of the vehicle, not to mention the fact that you don't need to recoup the entire cost to make it cost-effective.
I'd pay $32k for that thing just because it looks totally rad.
Doc on
0
TL DRNot at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered Userregular
As for the fuel savings, the fact that the car will eventually pay for itself is enough to help retain the value of the vehicle, not to mention the fact that you don't need to recoup the entire cost to make it cost-effective.
I'd pay $32k for that thing just because it looks totally rad.
Yeah, it looks cool, but just wait until people start crashing into your light trail all willy-nilly. On the upside, it can make 90-degree turns without slowing down.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Wow, that ZAP thing is pretty slow, especially considering its size.
Thats because it weights 1600lbs. The old mini cooper weighted less (1300-1500lbs).
Hell mid 90s Miatas weight 2300lbs and it has an extra wheel/axel/differential/frame/shock/strut/control arms. (but admittedly batteries do weight a lot)
CommunistCow on
No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
Wow, that ZAP thing is pretty slow, especially considering its size.
Thats because it weights 1600lbs. The old mini cooper weighted less (1300-1500lbs).
Hell mid 90s Miatas weight 2300lbs and it has an extra wheel/axel/differential/frame/shock/strut/control arms. (but admittedly batteries do weight a lot)
By "size," I was taking weight into account. It's slow. I didn't look at the motor, and specs and what not. I'm sure it's got a tiny little motor. I'd honestly rather just get shitty gas mileage and be able to move.
EDIT: I realize it's not slow compared to 98% of production cars, but the only thing that would convince me to buy a car like that is how light it is. But, that doesn't really do anything for me with a 7.7 0-60, and a top of 100.
Wow, that ZAP thing is pretty slow, especially considering its size.
Thats because it weights 1600lbs. The old mini cooper weighted less (1300-1500lbs).
Hell mid 90s Miatas weight 2300lbs and it has an extra wheel/axel/differential/frame/shock/strut/control arms. (but admittedly batteries do weight a lot)
By "size," I was taking weight into account. It's slow. I didn't look at the motor, and specs and what not. I'm sure it's got a tiny little motor. I'd honestly rather just get shitty gas mileage and be able to move.
Are we looking at the same thing? 0-60 in 7.7 seconds is slow? 100 MPH top speed is slow?
For reference, my '03 cavalier can do 0-60 in 8 seconds, and has a top speed of 112 mph.
Edit: Re: your edit: Well, pfft. If you want a sports car, go buy a sports car. Or, you know, a motorcycle.
My only concerns for getting an electric / hydrogen / etc car is that it has to be large enough and robust enough to both be able to drive in -40 degree weather, and be able to push through snow drifts that are up to 12" deep. If its unable to do either of those, then I aint going to buy it.
Ideally, it should also be able to start in that -40 weather if left unplugged for 9hours.
My only concerns for getting an electric / hydrogen / etc car is that it has to be large enough and robust enough to both be able to drive in -40 degree weather, and be able to push through snow drifts that are up to 12" deep. If its unable to do either of those, then I aint going to buy it.
Ideally, it should also be able to start in that -40 weather if left unplugged for 9hours.
So...Edmonton or Calgary?
I'm in the same boat. I need to be able to run through cold winters, warm summers, and rough pot-hole laden roads from years of neglect by our municipal administration. I've been strongly contemplating a small SUV (non-crossover) for my job, which works out well since now might be the time to buy one.
My only concerns for getting an electric / hydrogen / etc car is that it has to be large enough and robust enough to both be able to drive in -40 degree weather, and be able to push through snow drifts that are up to 12" deep. If its unable to do either of those, then I aint going to buy it.
Ideally, it should also be able to start in that -40 weather if left unplugged for 9hours.
So...Edmonton or Calgary?
I'm in the same boat. I need to be able to run through cold winters, warm summers, and rough pot-hole laden roads from years of neglect by our municipal administration. I've been strongly contemplating a small SUV (non-crossover) for my job, which works out well since now might be the time to buy one.
LOL, Edmonton by way of Winnipeg actually. But yeah, everytime I read about these nice super fuel efficient batteries, electric motors, hydrogen cars... I read more on them and their specs always seem to preclude us igloo dwellers.
Cheaper by $24,000.00... pretty efficient when not gunning it every 5 seconds, lighter, prettier, etc, etc. I was pretty heavy on the throttle on my old Zixxer, and got 30+ mpg.
And hey, it's quite a bit faster. Now, I know the safety issue is coming up, so let me head that off at the pass. The ZAP is a little safer than a bike, sure, but It's probably still pretty damn dangerous. There's not much to it, and if you crash it at 70 miles an hour, you're probably still going to end up dead.
My only concerns for getting an electric / hydrogen / etc car is that it has to be large enough and robust enough to both be able to drive in -40 degree weather, and be able to push through snow drifts that are up to 12" deep. If its unable to do either of those, then I aint going to buy it.
Ideally, it should also be able to start in that -40 weather if left unplugged for 9hours.
So...Edmonton or Calgary?
I'm in the same boat. I need to be able to run through cold winters, warm summers, and rough pot-hole laden roads from years of neglect by our municipal administration. I've been strongly contemplating a small SUV (non-crossover) for my job, which works out well since now might be the time to buy one.
LOL, Edmonton by way of Winnipeg actually. But yeah, everytime I read about these nice super fuel efficient batteries, electric motors, hydrogen cars... I read more on them and their specs always seem to preclude us igloo dwellers.
Obviously the solution is to let global-warming proceed until your igloos melt, and then start driving hybrid!
My only concerns for getting an electric / hydrogen / etc car is that it has to be large enough and robust enough to both be able to drive in -40 degree weather, and be able to push through snow drifts that are up to 12" deep. If its unable to do either of those, then I aint going to buy it.
Ideally, it should also be able to start in that -40 weather if left unplugged for 9hours.
So...Edmonton or Calgary?
I'm in the same boat. I need to be able to run through cold winters, warm summers, and rough pot-hole laden roads from years of neglect by our municipal administration. I've been strongly contemplating a small SUV (non-crossover) for my job, which works out well since now might be the time to buy one.
LOL, Edmonton by way of Winnipeg actually. But yeah, everytime I read about these nice super fuel efficient batteries, electric motors, hydrogen cars... I read more on them and their specs always seem to preclude us igloo dwellers.
Obviously the solution is to let global-warming proceed until your igloos melt, and then start driving hybrid!
If only! I wish! Unfortunately global-warming has caused extreme weather patterns instead, which is what brings down the -50 windchill winds down from the arctic and the 36 inches of blizzard in a weekend.
Posts
Orly?
Our 93 Civic automatic with >100k cost $2,000 gets upwards of 30 mpg. A new hybrid Civic costs $22,000 and averages (by fueleconomy.gov) 45 mpg.
Over the next 100,000 miles, the hybrid will use 1,111 fewer gallons of gas. In order for that to equal the difference in price, gas would have to average $18 a gallon during that time.
And just about any used compact (Geo Metro Baby) > Hybrid gas/price time ratio crap wise.
I pay attention to all of these things these days, and my mileage is much better than normal.
Wheel alignment
Exhaust
Oil
Tires
Timing belt
etc.
These all affect gas mileage.
Uh...you are also dealing with an old car with >100k more miles on it than a new car. This is not an apples to apples comparison, you are sweeping in massive price depreciation and comparative lifespans and maintenance requirements under the rug.
This whole line of discussion seems to be getting pretty stupid to me. Motorcycles!
We aren't discussing a hybrid. We're discussing an as-yet-nonexistent electric motorcycle powered by hypothetical free solar energy.
As for the fuel savings, the fact that the car will eventually pay for itself is enough to help retain the value of the vehicle, not to mention the fact that you don't need to recoup the entire cost to make it cost-effective.
When did you buy your civic? According to Kelly Blue Book and assuming your car has a cd player and is in good condition, it's worth about $1535. Here, here and here are the first three stock civics in that year with pictures listed on the New York City craigslist page. As you can see, only one of them approaches the KBB value. Of course, craigslist isn't exactly scientific, so I welcome another pricing method. But personally, I just got done chasing cars for over two weeks now. I'd routinely see something new listed online, call and schedule an appointment to see it the next day, and find it to be gone when I showed up. There has been a similar spike in demand for hybrids. Also, you're comparing a new and used car. A new car, when driven off the lot, immediately experiences a significant loss of value.
As El Jefe said, people are offering a pittance for SUVs right now, to be paid annually over 20 years in installments of 1/20th of a pittance.
I'd pay $32k for that thing just because it looks totally rad.
I love when debates come to an amiable conclusion.
Yeah, it looks cool, but just wait until people start crashing into your light trail all willy-nilly. On the upside, it can make 90-degree turns without slowing down.
Thats because it weights 1600lbs. The old mini cooper weighted less (1300-1500lbs).
Hell mid 90s Miatas weight 2300lbs and it has an extra wheel/axel/differential/frame/shock/strut/control arms. (but admittedly batteries do weight a lot)
By "size," I was taking weight into account. It's slow. I didn't look at the motor, and specs and what not. I'm sure it's got a tiny little motor. I'd honestly rather just get shitty gas mileage and be able to move.
EDIT: I realize it's not slow compared to 98% of production cars, but the only thing that would convince me to buy a car like that is how light it is. But, that doesn't really do anything for me with a 7.7 0-60, and a top of 100.
For reference, my '03 cavalier can do 0-60 in 8 seconds, and has a top speed of 112 mph.
Edit: Re: your edit: Well, pfft. If you want a sports car, go buy a sports car. Or, you know, a motorcycle.
Ideally, it should also be able to start in that -40 weather if left unplugged for 9hours.
MWO: Adamski
So...Edmonton or Calgary?
I'm in the same boat. I need to be able to run through cold winters, warm summers, and rough pot-hole laden roads from years of neglect by our municipal administration. I've been strongly contemplating a small SUV (non-crossover) for my job, which works out well since now might be the time to buy one.
I never finish anyth
LOL, Edmonton by way of Winnipeg actually. But yeah, everytime I read about these nice super fuel efficient batteries, electric motors, hydrogen cars... I read more on them and their specs always seem to preclude us igloo dwellers.
MWO: Adamski
That's pretty much exactly what I meant.
2007 Kawasaski ZX-6R
MSRP: $8,999
1/4-mile: 10.77 @ 131.8 mph
Cheaper by $24,000.00... pretty efficient when not gunning it every 5 seconds, lighter, prettier, etc, etc. I was pretty heavy on the throttle on my old Zixxer, and got 30+ mpg.
And hey, it's quite a bit faster. Now, I know the safety issue is coming up, so let me head that off at the pass. The ZAP is a little safer than a bike, sure, but It's probably still pretty damn dangerous. There's not much to it, and if you crash it at 70 miles an hour, you're probably still going to end up dead.
Obviously the solution is to let global-warming proceed until your igloos melt, and then start driving hybrid!
If only! I wish! Unfortunately global-warming has caused extreme weather patterns instead, which is what brings down the -50 windchill winds down from the arctic and the 36 inches of blizzard in a weekend.
MWO: Adamski
I never finish anyth
My solution:
ma' bike