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Dating (and the Pacing thereof)
MegaMan Addict
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Alright, I've lurked around here for a while and read a whole lot of these threads (specifically the [Girl] threads) and you lot have dished out some really good advice, so maybe you can help me out too...
<Backstory>
So I meet this girl for a date (introduced by a mutual friend) and we really hit it off. It was a marathon date of about 8 hours together. I tried my best to be myself, keep her interested and engaged and having a good time. I enjoyed myself too. This leads to a second date roughly a week later. Much shorter this time since she has work in the morning. Just dinner and a drink. Small walk through a park then back to her place.
I'm getting a bit nervous at this point because I am very much into her and I want to somehow express that. She invites me back inside her place; I said that I could use a glass of water. So we sit down on her couch and drink (water) and chat a bit more. I check the clock. Ok, time for me to go, but part of me isn't so sure, so I offer to take the glasses back to the kitchen. She follows me back there.
Glasses in the sink, saying our goodbyes, and a tiny voice in my head says, "you should probably hug her or something, you know, show her that you are interested". So I lean in for hug, and after finding that pleasant enough, I pull back for a kiss. And I get a kiss, but not just any kiss; this was a kiss full of passion and desire. A kiss that made us both want more. I made a half-hearted attempt to stop things right there saying something like "Hey, doesn't someone have to get up early tomorrow?" but she just smiled and pressed onward. So this second date ended up being a lot longer than even the first. In the morning (the really early morning) we cuddled a bit, kissed goodbye and went our separate ways for the day.
We end up in each other's arm again not 24 hours later. I am very happy at this point and decided to ask where this was all going. Then she mentions that maybe we are going a bit too fast. "Well yes, we are," says that voice again "but I had thought we both wanted this..." I don't give it much more thought that night since she seemed perfectly content to snuggle up to me and sleep.
She has this weekend off, so I e-mail her this past Monday asking if she wants to spend some time together. Three days go by with no answer. I go from
-> 
pretty quickly. I call her this past Thursday after she is done work, get the answering machine, and basically leave the same message about this weekend there. Nothing.
So I'm crushed (foolishly I suppose). I'm typing up an e-mail today (Friday), trying to end things on a good note, when she gives me a call. Ok, now I don't know what to do. There is some broken dialog and a few awkward silences as we try to figure out where to go from here. She's feeling rushed (perhaps insanely so) and needs some space. Fair enough, I can understand that. I agree that I was taking things too far too fast and apologized. I basically said that "the ball is in your court now; you can call me if you feel like going out on another date sometime" and we said our goodbyes.
Now this may be the end of things between the two of us or not. I am more concerned with the way I seem to want to fast-track my relationships. This is not the first time something like this has happened; I took the short route from date -> bed once before with another girl. That "relationship" dissolved right there though.
</Backstory>
So here is what I'm asking for H&A: How do I change my approach so that this does not happen again? I need some kind of guide for dating, something that tells me how fast I should be going, how to express my feelings without freaking the girl out, etc., etc. I don't think such a guide exists, or could ever exist, since everyone and every situation is different, but even some general guidelines or suggestions is better than what I have right now (which is absolutely nothing).
TL;DR Going too far, getting too deep, and moving too fast with women. Help slow me down so that I can salvage this relationship and/or do better with future ones.
<Backstory>
So I meet this girl for a date (introduced by a mutual friend) and we really hit it off. It was a marathon date of about 8 hours together. I tried my best to be myself, keep her interested and engaged and having a good time. I enjoyed myself too. This leads to a second date roughly a week later. Much shorter this time since she has work in the morning. Just dinner and a drink. Small walk through a park then back to her place.
I'm getting a bit nervous at this point because I am very much into her and I want to somehow express that. She invites me back inside her place; I said that I could use a glass of water. So we sit down on her couch and drink (water) and chat a bit more. I check the clock. Ok, time for me to go, but part of me isn't so sure, so I offer to take the glasses back to the kitchen. She follows me back there.
Glasses in the sink, saying our goodbyes, and a tiny voice in my head says, "you should probably hug her or something, you know, show her that you are interested". So I lean in for hug, and after finding that pleasant enough, I pull back for a kiss. And I get a kiss, but not just any kiss; this was a kiss full of passion and desire. A kiss that made us both want more. I made a half-hearted attempt to stop things right there saying something like "Hey, doesn't someone have to get up early tomorrow?" but she just smiled and pressed onward. So this second date ended up being a lot longer than even the first. In the morning (the really early morning) we cuddled a bit, kissed goodbye and went our separate ways for the day.
We end up in each other's arm again not 24 hours later. I am very happy at this point and decided to ask where this was all going. Then she mentions that maybe we are going a bit too fast. "Well yes, we are," says that voice again "but I had thought we both wanted this..." I don't give it much more thought that night since she seemed perfectly content to snuggle up to me and sleep.
She has this weekend off, so I e-mail her this past Monday asking if she wants to spend some time together. Three days go by with no answer. I go from
-> pretty quickly. I call her this past Thursday after she is done work, get the answering machine, and basically leave the same message about this weekend there. Nothing.So I'm crushed (foolishly I suppose). I'm typing up an e-mail today (Friday), trying to end things on a good note, when she gives me a call. Ok, now I don't know what to do. There is some broken dialog and a few awkward silences as we try to figure out where to go from here. She's feeling rushed (perhaps insanely so) and needs some space. Fair enough, I can understand that. I agree that I was taking things too far too fast and apologized. I basically said that "the ball is in your court now; you can call me if you feel like going out on another date sometime" and we said our goodbyes.
Now this may be the end of things between the two of us or not. I am more concerned with the way I seem to want to fast-track my relationships. This is not the first time something like this has happened; I took the short route from date -> bed once before with another girl. That "relationship" dissolved right there though.
</Backstory>
So here is what I'm asking for H&A: How do I change my approach so that this does not happen again? I need some kind of guide for dating, something that tells me how fast I should be going, how to express my feelings without freaking the girl out, etc., etc. I don't think such a guide exists, or could ever exist, since everyone and every situation is different, but even some general guidelines or suggestions is better than what I have right now (which is absolutely nothing).
TL;DR Going too far, getting too deep, and moving too fast with women. Help slow me down so that I can salvage this relationship and/or do better with future ones.
MegaMan Addict on
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Posts
There is no recipe.
You could do everything perfectly and a girl might still freak out.
You could everything wrong and the girl might still fall in love with you.
She's not a cake. You can't expect to mix the right ingredients and put her in the oven for the right amount of time and expect to get something out that's moist and tasty. She's a human being, and humans have fears, doubts, expectations, hopes, goals, distractions, etc.
That's why dating is entirely a game of statistics. The more women you meet, the more dates you go on, the more success you will have. Just keep trying, with different girls, and eventually something will click. Don't put all your hopes on one girl, no matter how tempting it might be.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I don't think you did anything wrong. She gave you your kiss and then some. It wasn't just you, it was her as well. I think she pushed herself too far, not you. It could be the whole, "I'm falling for him too fast and I don't NEED that." you know, the whole independent bullshit.
I understand how you feel though, as I've said. One minute is grand then the next is devastating. Keep your head up, though
As usual, I'll use a personal anecdote as an example.
Anyways, my wife and I met (online, as I mentioned in another thread
Anyways, the point of all this is that assumptions about what one *ought* to do in romance are truly just that. As cheesy as it sounds... when you know it's right, it's right... regardless of how fast or slow "right" is to you.
And do remember, as Penguin_Otaku said, it takes two to make the pace of a relationship happen. Don't place the burden entirely on yourself for it.
My wife also says to tell you "you only regret that which you do not do", if that helps.
I used to be that way. I always thought that it was better to move too slowly than to move too quickly, but the problem is that either extreme can be harmful. I gave women the impression that I wasn't into them, they didn't feel attractive, and so they lost interest.
Look, if somebody's attracted to you, they're not going to care that you called in two days (or four) when they expected three. They're not going to care that you didn't have sex until the fifth date instead of the fourth. Just do whatever feels natural... and if nothing feels natural, just keep fucking it up until you start to get a feeling for it
Just keep trying. You only lose the game when you stop playing.
It's better to regret the things you have done than to regret the things you haven't done.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
The problem with the game of love is you don't when you are winning and when you have won.
This is not a bad thing, it's just how our bodies work. If you really like someone, you want to have sex with them. Unfortunately, people in our society (women more than men) have been brought up with the puritanical belief that sex before marriage is really, really bad. While she is with you, she is completely head over heels for you. Then when she gets home, she is wracked by guilt because what she did is slutty, or wrong, in her mind. This leads to the shut-out of her not calling you again.
There's really not much you can do. I used to stop it from getting too intense before we both did something we would regret, but I found as I got older it turned off a lot more women than not. Older women who want to have sex will get irritated if you don't respond in kind. Depending on your age group, I would suggest taking it slower if you are young, and just letting it happen if you're a bit more mature. 15-18 range, definitely go slower. Both you and her are probably not mature enough to handle the emotional rollercoaster that comes with having sex that early in a relationship. Older than that? I say don't worry too much about it, you will meet both types of women: sexually repressed women who don't think they should have sex before they're in love, or girls that won't regret what you guys are doing because they like you so much.
It all comes down to this: she's scared of how attracted she is to you, and either isn't ready for something so intense or has another reason why she doesn't want a very serious relationship right now. It's not a bad thing, it isn't your fault, and there's nothing you could have done. It happens, luck of the draw unfortunately. As I said, I wouldn't recommend forcing yourself to go slower when she is all over you. If she is actively trying to get you to go to bed with her, man why not? You both want it to happen. It isn't your problem if she has guilt issues or isn't ready to commit to a relationship, and how are you to know that beforehand? 'Sorry to ruin the moment, but are we going to have a dedicated, loving relationship after we have sex or are you going to drop me like a bad habit?' is a real buzz-kill for anybody.
Sorry, I think a rambled on a bit too much here. Oh well, hopefully I gave a bit of insight, since this happens to me frequently as well. Good luck with this girl, I hope she calls you back.
Pretty much this. It's not like you raped her or anything. She seemed as much into it as you did. Maybe she does think you're moving too fast. Or maybe she just didn't find you sexually compatible. Or maybe she just wanted to get laid for one night. Who knows, and right now, who cares, because there is unfortunetly nothing you can do about it. Just forget her for now and try to move on. If she calls you, awesome, if not..well, live and learn right?
Patience, man. Patience. Not days of it. Months of it.
As for this specific situation, it sounds like she got a bit freaked out at how much you two are attracted to each other — as in, you didn't rush her, she rushed herself. Give her the time she wants and if she calls you back, yay. If she doesn't, chalk it up to her issues and move on.
I will point out that I used to take advice like this to an unhealthy extreme and I gave girls the impression that I just didn't like them much by acting too detached.
There's a good middle ground. I personally think that seeing somebody 1-2 times per week and calling them once between dates is a good amount, but that's not a hard and fast rule and other people might disagree.
You'll get a feeling for it once you're dating a while.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I feel a bit better knowing that I didn't really do anything wrong, though now I am left wondering what to do next. Let's assume that she does call me back at some point and would like to go out on another date. Awesome. Only thing is, I really don't know what level of physical contact would be appropriate now.
Holding hands and light touching seem ok to my mind...would wrapping my arms around her while waiting in line be ok? A kiss goodnight at the end of date? See, now I'm kinda screwed because I don't know how far I should go 'cause I already know how far I could go.
Oh, and I'll skip the e-mail I wanted to send her today (I wasn't entirely happy with the phone conversation we had), but as many have said, I need to ease off a bit and give her some space (both in body and in mind). I'll send an e-mail or call her sometime next week.
Well, I'd say first things first - relax. You're already freaking out before she has even contacted you about meeting up.
When/if you two do meet up again - don't fret over the small stuff. Play it by ear. If she's comfortable with you, you'll be able to tell. Try not to be a nervous wreck - it'll in turn make her nervous. I know this is cliche, but just be yourself. You obviously did something right the first two dates - follow that formula.
I think you know what you need to do and how to act, but you're getting a little over eager and maybe need others to tell you to just take a breath and play it one step at time.
One last word of advice though: Don't put all your eggs in one basket, generally makes for a nasty mess at the end of the day.
Good luck.
The time/space thing is either a nice way to let you down or so she can actually organize how she feels. Hopefully it is the latter. But you're right to call in a few days or a week, remind her that you're still interested without being too persistent. When you do call though don't make a big deal about her wanting to take it slower.
ehhhh He has known the girl for 2 days. I dont think he has the authority to attempt to open her up to her feelings. I personally think the op is taking it too hard, he should just do what gives him enjoyment. If what you are doing is fun enjoy it, if she kinda pushes you away move away and find someone else. you guys haven't been close enough to "mend" anything, so if everything is ok relax. I suggest giving it a couple days and giving her a call and seeing if she wants to go out for lunch or something. Oh and personal opinion NEVER ask a girl if it is ok to do something. play it by mood and feel and take slight rejection when it happens. asking can really put a damper on the whole situation and kill any sort of arousal.
While you are actually on the date, that's your time, do what your heart tells you, and don't be afraid to get swept up in the moment. Asking how far blah blah blah- there's no need for that. Just go however fast your heart tells you is right, paying attention to the signals given along the way.
If after, she thinks about it, and thinks she needs time/pacing, whatever, then give her head what it thinks it needs. Balance them - in the moment be of the moment, when out of the moment concede to rational thinking. It's all about responding in kind.