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In the face of mounting pressure to resign and impending impeachment proceedings, rather than dissolve the Parliament, President Pervez Musharraf instead is resigning as president of Pakistan on Monday: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/19/world/asia/19pstan.html?hp
World rejoices? Or will this bring instability to Pakistan, which would be a great concern because they have nukes?
the guy seemed to do a pretty terrible job of keeping safe havens for terrorists outside of west pakistan
I think whether this is good or bad for Pakistan, it's still going to be a blow to U.S. Pakistan relations. I also don't see the next prez clearing out the terrorists either, he is probably going to be more concerned with fixing their tumultuous financial state rather then ridding the country of bad guys.
Unfortunately, my understanding is that Musharraf's primary political opposition are mostly radical Muslims. That's one of the reasons the US was supporting him - better a known repressive dictator who doesn't stop the terrorists than an out and out [strike]communist[/strike] "islamofascist".
With nukes. And a religion based constantly smoldering religion-based war with another nuclear power.
Unfortunately, my understanding is that Musharraf's primary political opposition are mostly radical Muslims. That's one of the reasons the US was supporting him - better a known repressive dictator who doesn't stop the terrorists than an out and out [strike]communist[/strike] "islamofascist".
With nukes. And a religion based constantly smoldering religion-based war with another nuclear power.
That does give me an uneasy feeling...Nukes+Crazies=Someone stupid enough to use them.
Although, I highly doubt that they would be able to strike the U.S.
Have they reinstated the high court judges that Musharraf threw out?
Qliphoth on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
MrMonroepassed outon the floor nowRegistered Userregular
edited August 2008
I near unhinged my jaw when I heard this on the radio this morning. I believe their equivalent of the speaker of the house becomes acting president until such time as elections can be arranged. It is unlikely (apparently) that he will get the nomination from the ruling coalition.
Unfortunately, my understanding is that Musharraf's primary political opposition are mostly radical Muslims. That's one of the reasons the US was supporting him - better a known repressive dictator who doesn't stop the terrorists than an out and out [strike]communist[/strike] "islamofascist".
We've done that "he's an asshole, but he's our kinda asshole" kinda stuff before.
It was being broadcast for a week prior to it finally happening. If you'd have asked me a month ago I'd have had no idea, but this certainly wasn't out of the blue.
Unfortunately, my understanding is that Musharraf's primary political opposition are mostly radical Muslims. That's one of the reasons the US was supporting him - better a known repressive dictator who doesn't stop the terrorists than an out and out [strike]communist[/strike] "islamofascist".
With nukes. And a religion based constantly smoldering religion-based war with another nuclear power.
That does give me an uneasy feeling...Nukes+Crazies=Someone stupid enough to use them.
Although, I highly doubt that they would be able to strike the U.S.
The nukes are controlled by the generals. They aren't about to use them, and will hold a military coup over anyone who decides to against their wishes.
Unfortunately, my understanding is that Musharraf's primary political opposition are mostly radical Muslims. That's one of the reasons the US was supporting him - better a known repressive dictator who doesn't stop the terrorists than an out and out [strike]communist[/strike] "islamofascist".
With nukes. And a religion based constantly smoldering religion-based war with another nuclear power.
That does give me an uneasy feeling...Nukes+Crazies=Someone stupid enough to use them.
Although, I highly doubt that they would be able to strike the U.S.
The nukes are controlled by the generals. They aren't about to use them, and will hold a military coup over anyone who decides to against their wishes.
Its more of a feeling of unease then anything else, I don't think I'm going to keep a weather eye out for nukes in the near future. I just dont like the idea of a possibly crazy leader with nukes in his aresenal, wheather generals stand in his way or not.
Unfortunately, my understanding is that Musharraf's primary political opposition are mostly radical Muslims. That's one of the reasons the US was supporting him - better a known repressive dictator who doesn't stop the terrorists than an out and out [strike]communist[/strike] "islamofascist".
With nukes. And a religion based constantly smoldering religion-based war with another nuclear power.
That does give me an uneasy feeling...Nukes+Crazies=Someone stupid enough to use them.
Although, I highly doubt that they would be able to strike the U.S.
The nukes are controlled by the generals. They aren't about to use them, and will hold a military coup over anyone who decides to against their wishes.
Its more of a feeling of unease then anything else, I don't think I'm going to keep a weather eye out for nukes in the near future. I just dont like the idea of a possibly crazy leader with nukes in his aresenal, wheather generals stand in his way or not.
Unfortunately, my understanding is that Musharraf's primary political opposition are mostly radical Muslims. That's one of the reasons the US was supporting him - better a known repressive dictator who doesn't stop the terrorists than an out and out [strike]communist[/strike] "islamofascist".
With nukes. And a religion based constantly smoldering religion-based war with another nuclear power.
That does give me an uneasy feeling...Nukes+Crazies=Someone stupid enough to use them.
Although, I highly doubt that they would be able to strike the U.S.
The nukes are controlled by the generals. They aren't about to use them, and will hold a military coup over anyone who decides to against their wishes.
Its more of a feeling of unease then anything else, I don't think I'm going to keep a weather eye out for nukes in the near future. I just dont like the idea of a possibly crazy leader with nukes in his aresenal, wheather generals stand in his way or not.
Who's going to make the military use them?
Particularly a military as politically active as Pakistan's. Lest we forget, Musharraf came to power as a result of a military coup 10 years ago.
Its more of a feeling of unease then anything else, I don't think I'm going to keep a weather eye out for nukes in the near future. I just dont like the idea of a possibly crazy leader with nukes in his aresenal, wheather generals stand in his way or not.
Who's going to make the military use them?
Honestly...I haven't thought that far ahead, so I have no clue. It just seems like having a crazy leader who may/may not consider using nukes is more dangerous then a leader who would not at all.
Unfortunately, my understanding is that Musharraf's primary political opposition are mostly radical Muslims. That's one of the reasons the US was supporting him - better a known repressive dictator who doesn't stop the terrorists than an out and out [strike]communist[/strike] "islamofascist".
With nukes. And a religion based constantly smoldering religion-based war with another nuclear power.
That does give me an uneasy feeling...Nukes+Crazies=Someone stupid enough to use them.
Although, I highly doubt that they would be able to strike the U.S.
The nukes are controlled by the generals. They aren't about to use them, and will hold a military coup over anyone who decides to against their wishes.
The head of the military has been doing a good job from a US perspective
Ashfaq Kiyani is good people.
Its more of a feeling of unease then anything else, I don't think I'm going to keep a weather eye out for nukes in the near future. I just dont like the idea of a possibly crazy leader with nukes in his aresenal, wheather generals stand in his way or not.
Who's going to make the military use them?
Honestly...I haven't thought that far ahead, so I have no clue. It just seems like having a crazy leader who may/may not consider using nukes is more dangerous then a leader who would not at all.
The only thing that could make Pakistan's military do anything is another military of equal or greater strength. An extremist government would have to work their generals into the military.
Also keep in mind that Pakistan's populace is more informed and politically active than our own.
The nukes are controlled by the generals. They aren't about to use them, and will hold a military coup over anyone who decides to against their wishes.
I get this sense as well. The military is a highly respected profession in Pakistan, and while they aren't perfect, they do their best to uphold that image.
The real problem is Pakstain is going down the shitter as a whole country. Inflation is at 25%, investors are fleeing the country, and unemployment is at 6% per annum in the last five years. It's starting to have a recipe for a civil war, or a disaster on epic levels, where nukes fall into the wrong hands.
Its more of a feeling of unease then anything else, I don't think I'm going to keep a weather eye out for nukes in the near future. I just dont like the idea of a possibly crazy leader with nukes in his aresenal, wheather generals stand in his way or not.
Who's going to make the military use them?
Honestly...I haven't thought that far ahead, so I have no clue. It just seems like having a crazy leader who may/may not consider using nukes is more dangerous then a leader who would not at all.
That crazy leader cannot consider using nukes, because he does not control Pakistan's nuclear arsenal. The generals do. What part of this don't you get?
Yeah, and nukes aren't something you use anyways. What you do is hold them as leverage. Actually using them causes a shit storm you and nobody else wants, and you aren't gonna stay in power for very long if you use them. Staying in power is the goal here, kids!
So that's why the military aint gonna let go of them, and why any half-sane leader wouldn't use them either.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
I may have spoken too soon. I had thought Bhutto's coalition/party had fragmented after her death but the guardian says
Who will be the next president of Pakistan?
The president is elected by the four provincial assemblies and the national parliament. Many think the role might be reduced to a ceremonial one. If the president retained substantial powers, Zardari might want the position, although he has has hinted the next president may be a woman.
Analysts speculate that the ethnic Pashtun leader Asfandayr Wali Khan is a frontrunner because he is liberal and it would be a sign of national unity.
(Zardani =Bhutto's husband) Bhutto's Pakistan Peoples Party has relationships with Canada's NDP and the UK's Labour parties as part of the "Socialist International" organization. The power situation currently seems up in the air
I may have spoken too soon. I had thought Bhutto's coalition/party had fragmented after her death but the guardian says
Who will be the next president of Pakistan?
The president is elected by the four provincial assemblies and the national parliament. Many think the role might be reduced to a ceremonial one. If the president retained substantial powers, Zardari might want the position, although he has has hinted the next president may be a woman.
Analysts speculate that the ethnic Pashtun leader Asfandayr Wali Khan is a frontrunner because he is liberal and it would be a sign of national unity.
(Zardani =Bhutto's husband) Bhutto's Pakistan Peoples Party has relationships with Canada's NDP and the UK's Labour parties as part of the "Socialist International" organization. The power situation currently seems up in the air
Was he really that bad of a guy? For a dictator he seemed less of a dick head than someone like Castro. Most Pakistani and Indians I work with liked Musharraf.
Mind you I do not support dictatorships and I worry about who will replace him.
Was he really that bad of a guy? For a dictator he seemed less of a dick head than someone like Castro. Most Pakistani and Indians I work with liked Musharraf.
Mind you I do not support dictatorships and I worry about who will replace him.
The shit he pulled with the courts is pretty damning. Of course, I prefer to compare people up rather than down. He was no Gandhi, but then he wasn't Gandhi either.
Musharraf, considering the situation he was in, did a really good job of keeping the Islamists in his country in check. Yes, he was a dictator, but as far as dictators go, he was one of the better ones.
I may have spoken too soon. I had thought Bhutto's coalition/party had fragmented after her death but the guardian says
Who will be the next president of Pakistan?
The president is elected by the four provincial assemblies and the national parliament. Many think the role might be reduced to a ceremonial one. If the president retained substantial powers, Zardari might want the position, although he has has hinted the next president may be a woman.
Analysts speculate that the ethnic Pashtun leader Asfandayr Wali Khan is a frontrunner because he is liberal and it would be a sign of national unity.
(Zardani =Bhutto's husband) Bhutto's Pakistan Peoples Party has relationships with Canada's NDP and the UK's Labour parties as part of the "Socialist International" organization. The power situation currently seems up in the air
In a word, politics. Ever since the country's elections in February, Musharraf's position has been in doubt. His fate was sealed when the leaders of the two biggest parties joined hands in recent weeks, saying they were determined to get rid of the former army chief.
Asif Ali Zardari, the husband of the late Benazir Bhutto and leader of the Pakistan People's party, and Nawaz Sharif, the head of the powerful Pakistan Muslim League-N, who was ousted by Musharraf in 1999, had signalled they were determined to finish off the president – with a trial through parliament.
I don't know the positions of the "Muslim League-N" but I don't believe they are part of the Taliban-esque NW Pakistan groups.
Nice link.
So on sunday they said they would never give him immunity but they are practically minded and then today he resigned with immunity as part of the deal?
He has way too many political connections to actually stand trial.
It would be nice if they could be stable with a non-religious leader, but I don't think that is how its going to play out. Whoever takes power is still going to have to play nice with the military.
Government is all about checks and balances, but things are kinda screwed up when your checks and balances are "the People&Church" vs "the Military".
You just haven't been keeping up with the story.
They've been threatening impeachment for a week at least.
Oh no, I know about the impeachment stuff, but normally dictators fight tooth and nail to stay in control, don't they?
Not when there’s a good chance of imprisonment and one of the opposition leaders is a guy you overthrew nine years ago (and whose wife you may or may not have had assasinated).
Even though he resigned, nobody’s promised him immunity.
Posts
I don't think anyone expected this to happen.
I mean he's an ass but he's not suicidal.
i mean
the guy seemed to do a pretty terrible job of keeping safe havens for terrorists outside of west pakistan
I think whether this is good or bad for Pakistan, it's still going to be a blow to U.S. Pakistan relations. I also don't see the next prez clearing out the terrorists either, he is probably going to be more concerned with fixing their tumultuous financial state rather then ridding the country of bad guys.
Unfortunately, my understanding is that Musharraf's primary political opposition are mostly radical Muslims. That's one of the reasons the US was supporting him - better a known repressive dictator who doesn't stop the terrorists than an out and out [strike]communist[/strike] "islamofascist".
With nukes. And a religion based constantly smoldering religion-based war with another nuclear power.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
That does give me an uneasy feeling...Nukes+Crazies=Someone stupid enough to use them.
Although, I highly doubt that they would be able to strike the U.S.
We've done that "he's an asshole, but he's our kinda asshole" kinda stuff before.
It was being broadcast for a week prior to it finally happening. If you'd have asked me a month ago I'd have had no idea, but this certainly wasn't out of the blue.
And good riddance anyhow.
The nukes are controlled by the generals. They aren't about to use them, and will hold a military coup over anyone who decides to against their wishes.
Its more of a feeling of unease then anything else, I don't think I'm going to keep a weather eye out for nukes in the near future. I just dont like the idea of a possibly crazy leader with nukes in his aresenal, wheather generals stand in his way or not.
Who's going to make the military use them?
Particularly a military as politically active as Pakistan's. Lest we forget, Musharraf came to power as a result of a military coup 10 years ago.
You just haven't been keeping up with the story.
They've been threatening impeachment for a week at least.
Honestly...I haven't thought that far ahead, so I have no clue. It just seems like having a crazy leader who may/may not consider using nukes is more dangerous then a leader who would not at all.
The head of the military has been doing a good job from a US perspective
Ashfaq Kiyani is good people.
The only thing that could make Pakistan's military do anything is another military of equal or greater strength. An extremist government would have to work their generals into the military.
Also keep in mind that Pakistan's populace is more informed and politically active than our own.
I get this sense as well. The military is a highly respected profession in Pakistan, and while they aren't perfect, they do their best to uphold that image.
The real problem is Pakstain is going down the shitter as a whole country. Inflation is at 25%, investors are fleeing the country, and unemployment is at 6% per annum in the last five years. It's starting to have a recipe for a civil war, or a disaster on epic levels, where nukes fall into the wrong hands.
That crazy leader cannot consider using nukes, because he does not control Pakistan's nuclear arsenal. The generals do. What part of this don't you get?
So that's why the military aint gonna let go of them, and why any half-sane leader wouldn't use them either.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Mind you I do not support dictatorships and I worry about who will replace him.
The shit he pulled with the courts is pretty damning. Of course, I prefer to compare people up rather than down. He was no Gandhi, but then he wasn't Gandhi either.
The Pakistanis have been irritated with this little prick for awhile.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
So on sunday they said they would never give him immunity but they are practically minded and then today he resigned with immunity as part of the deal?
He has way too many political connections to actually stand trial.
It would be nice if they could be stable with a non-religious leader, but I don't think that is how its going to play out. Whoever takes power is still going to have to play nice with the military.
Government is all about checks and balances, but things are kinda screwed up when your checks and balances are "the People&Church" vs "the Military".
Even though he resigned, nobody’s promised him immunity.