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Worst RPG. EVER.

1235

Posts

  • SquashuaSquashua __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2006
    Yoshua wrote:
    Only rolemaster campaign I was in ended faster than character generation took.

    ...

    After that it was game over, the GM didn't want to continue as apparently we weren't even supposed to fight the demon thing let alone kill it. But I don't hold this against the game itself (the flaw here was poor GM'ing, not the game system itself).

    Not only are we both probably named Joshua, but we have similar stories.

    The only Champions (OH MY GOD, STATS) game I ever played in that I could stand (OH MY GOD, DICE and VALUES) was a convention adventure.

    This kid scheduled a Champions session, so I showed up and it turned out that we were designing characters TONIGHT and then playing the game TOMORROW. Even though that required multi-day participation, I gave it a shot. So I designed a giant; a literal GIGANTIC BEING. That was his only power; that he was gigantic and clumsy; which let me put more points into being gigantic and heavy. And slow.

    So the next day I show up and holy crap the guy wrote up very long character sheets (oh my god). Our adventure consisted of going into a city and stopping all these mind-controlled supers. I'm pretty ineffectual since everyone is much faster than me. The other players are having as much fun as they can constantly rolling dice (yawn).

    The GM was the sort who seemed to design an adventure without taking into account his player's abilities. That was fine. As I was getting bored, I decided to focus on roleplaying, and in that sense, environment manipulation.

    My character makes a bit of a scene and gets shot at with an energy blast by the bad guy supers. This knocks him backwards and, being the playful type, I don't stop him from going in that direction. I state to the GM, "I tumble backwards into the building immediately behind me, using all of my weight, unconsciously attempting to obliterate it." We're in the middle of a city and there's lots of call for property damage.

    The GM asked me to repeat myself, and I did, especially after he stressed that the building was abandoned. He then pointed to the map, full of buildings, and asked which building in particular. I pointed to an arbitrary building that I figured would be right behind where I imagined I was standing.

    He stared at the map and began to sweat, and his mouth dropped open, then closed.

    Then he rolled a lot of dice for some reason.

    As he looked like he was going to cry, the GM informed us that the mentally-controlled people stopped being mentally-controlled.

    . . .

    It turns out that I arbitrarily fell onto the exact building where the GM had placed his main villain and around whom he had prepared 3 more hours of us mindlessly fighting his controlled drones.

    And I sat on him and killed him.


    THEN THE GAMEMASTER STARTED CRYING.


    We left. It had been 2 hours the prior day making characters, and 45 minutes of gaming.

    True story, and I got a bunch more of them.

    Squashua on
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  • SquashuaSquashua __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2006
    You childrens forgot Empire of Satanis and SenZar.

    Squashua on
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  • thorgotthorgot Registered User regular
    edited October 2006
    PiptheFair wrote:

    Sorry, I'll have to trump that.
    So, basically, FATAL is the date rape RPG.
    Byron Hall wrote:
    Another faulty conclusion drawn by Darren. Where is dating included?

    D:
    ahahahahhahahaha

    Fatal wins the thread. That review was one of the best reviews I have ever read.

    thorgot on
    campionthorgotsig.jpg
  • FierceDeity666FierceDeity666 Registered User
    edited October 2006
    Squashua wrote:
    Turns out that I sat on the arbitrary building where the GM had placed his main villain and around whom he had prepared 3 more hours of us mindlessly fighting his controlled drones.

    And I sat on him and killed him.

    THEN THE GAMEMASTER STARTED CRYING.
    at this point, a big neon sign should have come down saying "YOU WIN".

    FierceDeity666 on
  • laughingfuzzballlaughingfuzzball Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Squashua wrote:
    You childrens forgot Empire of Satanis and SenZar.

    Not so much 'forgot' as 'there's no point, FATAL already won'.

    laughingfuzzball on
  • PkmoutlPkmoutl Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Squashua wrote:
    Yoshua wrote:
    Only rolemaster campaign I was in ended faster than character generation took.

    ...

    After that it was game over, the GM didn't want to continue as apparently we weren't even supposed to fight the demon thing let alone kill it. But I don't hold this against the game itself (the flaw here was poor GM'ing, not the game system itself).

    Not only are we both probably named Joshua, but we have similar stories.

    The only Champions (OH MY GOD, STATS) game I ever played in that I could stand (OH MY GOD, DICE and VALUES) was a convention adventure.

    This kid scheduled a Champions session, so I showed up and it turned out that we were designing characters TONIGHT and then playing the game TOMORROW. So I designed a giant; a literal GIGANTIC BEING. That was his only power; that he was gigantic and clumsy; which let me put more points into being gigantic and heavy. And slow.

    So the next day I show up and holy crap the guy wrote up very long character sheets (oh my god). Our adventure consisted of going into a city and stopping all these mind-controlled supers. I'm pretty ineffectual since everyone is much faster than me. The other players are having as much fun as they can constantly rolling dice (yawn).

    So I get bored and decided to turn more towards my roleplaying, and in that sense, environment manipulation.

    At one point, my guy gets hit backwards, and being the playful type, I don't stop myself. "I tumble backwards very heavily into the building behind me, unconsciously attempting to obliterate it." We're in the middle of a city and there's lots of call for property damage.

    The GM asked me to repeat myself, and I did, especially after he stressed that the building was abandoned. He then pointed to the map, full of buildings, and asked which building in particular. I pointed to the arbitrary building that I happened to be right behind.

    He rolled a lot of dice for some reason.
    Then he looked like he was going to cry, and informed us that the mentally-controlled people stopped being mentally-controlled.

    Turns out that I sat on the arbitrary building where the GM had placed his main villain and around whom he had prepared 3 more hours of us mindlessly fighting his controlled drones.

    And I sat on him and killed him.

    THEN THE GAMEMASTER STARTED CRYING.

    We left. It had been 2 hours the prior day making characters, and 45 minutes of gaming.

    True story, and I got a bunch more of them.
    This belongs in the "You wouldn't believe it but..." thread.

    But it's fucking classic. That's what the fucking guy gets.

    And three hours of fighting? Talk about dull.

    Pkmoutl on
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  • SquashuaSquashua __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2006
    Squashua wrote:
    You childrens forgot Empire of Satanis and SenZar.

    Not so much 'forgot' as 'there's no point, FATAL already won'.

    Actually, there's one actual game that beats FATAL...

    HYBRID

    I used to manage rec.games.frp.super-heroes, but then this guy named C++ (CPlusPlus) started posting his insane RPG ramblings regarding his own super-hero game all over the forum. And other forums. Someone actually compiled the posts and made a site.

    Good luck with it.

    Summary

    Squashua on
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  • MoridanMoridan Registered User
    edited November 2006
    I've got to mention two games that I really wanted to play:

    RIFTS - Really cool concept and setting. HORRIBLE rules. Very nearly unplayable without a spiral binder full of house rules.

    Wraith: the Oblivion - The best bad RPG I've ever read. Awesome atmosphere. Awesome setting. Awesome themes. A wonderful read. Totally unplayable with your average gaming group.

    Moridan on
    Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary
    opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.
    - Robert A. Heinlein
  • Beige ATMBeige ATM Registered User
    edited November 2006
    Moridan wrote:
    Wraith: the Oblivion - The best bad RPG I've ever read. Awesome atmosphere. Awesome setting. Awesome themes. A wonderful read. Totally unplayable with your average gaming group.

    I'd hate to call it a "bad" RPG for that reason, but I do see where you're coming from. If it's unplayable in general terms, then it can't really be the best RPG ever, but I'd hate to call it the worst if its problems are no fault of its own. By the way, I'm not assuming you DO think it's the worst RPG ever just because you mentioned it in this thread. Just wanted to clear that up.

    Beige ATM on
    And if the music stops... there's only the sound of the rain
    All the hope and glory, all the sacrifice in vain
    And if love remains, though everything is lost,
    We will pay the price, but we will not count the cost.

    Rush - "Bravado"
  • ComahawkComahawk Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Moridan wrote:
    I've got to mention two games that I really wanted to play:

    RIFTS - Really cool concept and setting. HORRIBLE rules. Very nearly unplayable without a spiral binder full of house rules.

    Wraith: the Oblivion - The best bad RPG I've ever read. Awesome atmosphere. Awesome setting. Awesome themes. A wonderful read. Totally unplayable with your average gaming group.

    Wraith was only unplayable due to the lack of ability by your players, not due to the mechanics or anything.

    Comahawk on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MoridanMoridan Registered User
    edited November 2006
    Comahawk wrote:
    Moridan wrote:
    I've got to mention two games that I really wanted to play:

    RIFTS - Really cool concept and setting. HORRIBLE rules. Very nearly unplayable without a spiral binder full of house rules.

    Wraith: the Oblivion - The best bad RPG I've ever read. Awesome atmosphere. Awesome setting. Awesome themes. A wonderful read. Totally unplayable with your average gaming group.

    Wraith was only unplayable due to the lack of ability by your players, not due to the mechanics or anything.

    It's awful hard to get 6 players to focus on the things the Wraith setting implied you should focus on, and have any real focus in the story at all. Exploring relationships with living relatives and friends, your living history, and your fetters is hard to do when everyone has their own agenda. The only playing style that works for that many people is the "adventure" type, and Wraith wasn't really designed for that.

    Moridan on
    Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary
    opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.
    - Robert A. Heinlein
  • laughingfuzzballlaughingfuzzball Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    RIFTS works without any house rules so long as you're either willing to play in a very limited setting or drop several hundred in additional books.

    It was designed to require supplements to play. Supplements are a lot more profitable than core books if you can get people to buy them. Palladium actually managed to convince a lot of people that Rifts wasn't just an excuse to incorporate all of their games so far into a massive supplememnt machine, which was quite a feat.

    edit- I'm not sure HYBRID even qualifies as an RPG...

    laughingfuzzball on
  • ComahawkComahawk Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Moridan wrote:
    Comahawk wrote:
    Moridan wrote:
    I've got to mention two games that I really wanted to play:

    RIFTS - Really cool concept and setting. HORRIBLE rules. Very nearly unplayable without a spiral binder full of house rules.

    Wraith: the Oblivion - The best bad RPG I've ever read. Awesome atmosphere. Awesome setting. Awesome themes. A wonderful read. Totally unplayable with your average gaming group.

    Wraith was only unplayable due to the lack of ability by your players, not due to the mechanics or anything.

    It's awful hard to get 6 players to focus on the things the Wraith setting implied you should focus on, and have any real focus in the story at all. Exploring relationships with living relatives and friends, your living history, and your fetters is hard to do when everyone has their own agenda. The only playing style that works for that many people is the "adventure" type, and Wraith wasn't really designed for that.

    I don't know, I've played it a couple of times and had little difficulty.

    Comahawk on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • laughingfuzzballlaughingfuzzball Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Comahawk wrote:
    Moridan wrote:
    Comahawk wrote:
    Moridan wrote:
    I've got to mention two games that I really wanted to play:

    RIFTS - Really cool concept and setting. HORRIBLE rules. Very nearly unplayable without a spiral binder full of house rules.

    Wraith: the Oblivion - The best bad RPG I've ever read. Awesome atmosphere. Awesome setting. Awesome themes. A wonderful read. Totally unplayable with your average gaming group.

    Wraith was only unplayable due to the lack of ability by your players, not due to the mechanics or anything.

    It's awful hard to get 6 players to focus on the things the Wraith setting implied you should focus on, and have any real focus in the story at all. Exploring relationships with living relatives and friends, your living history, and your fetters is hard to do when everyone has their own agenda. The only playing style that works for that many people is the "adventure" type, and Wraith wasn't really designed for that.

    I don't know, I've played it a couple of times and had little difficulty.

    I haven't played Wraith, but I do know that non-adventure games can work just fine with large groups so long as the group and most especially the GM know what they're doing.

    Amber is a great example. It works best when you have enough people to get a good political agenda going. It doesn't work well for adventuring, but when you have an experienced GM to push things in the right direction at the right pace with a few senior players to set the tone for the newbies, you can get it going real well.

    laughingfuzzball on
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Moridan wrote:
    RIFTS - Really cool concept and setting. HORRIBLE rules. Very nearly unplayable without a spiral binder full of house rules.

    Wtf are you talking about? Rift's rule system -Shit, all of palladiums current rule systems- Are perfectly coherent; I should know since I played Palladium fantasy, nightbane, heroes unlimited AND rifts for 5 or 6 years.

    Shit, I started up a game just recently for a couple buddies in palladium fantasy (which has the exact same rules sans mdc), one of whom has never played a roleplaying game in his life, and he took to it like a duck to water.

    The only time that you should need to "break out a binder of house rules" is if your player group is attempting to munchkin the fuck out of there characters, and a healthy dose of will power and common sense will fix that problem right up.

    So yeah: quit your bitching about a perfectly functional rule system.

    Gaddez on
    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
  • ArdentArdent Skyline Ranger UndergroundRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    RIFTS main mechanical problem -- shared by all Palladium games -- is that there were too many dice involved in even mundane taskings.

    Other than that, I love the setting, love the material and would probably jump at the chance to play over the tabletop again.

    Ardent on
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    Join us on Discord for RPGs
  • laughingfuzzballlaughingfuzzball Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Ardent wrote:
    there were too many dice involved

    That's about half the games printed between 1974 and 1990, and a great many afterward.

    laughingfuzzball on
  • ArdentArdent Skyline Ranger UndergroundRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Ardent wrote:
    there were too many dice involved

    That's about half the games printed between 1974 and 1990, and a great many afterward.
    I haven't got issues with having to roll a handful of dice to resolve combat. I take issue when I have to roll a handful of dice to see if I know how to get from St. Louis to Atlantis.

    Dice and gaming toe a fine line; too many and you're effectively boring everyone into submission. Too few and you've stopped gaming and begun simply acting; not bad in and of itself, but usually not the goal when you sit down around a table.

    Ardent on
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    Join us on Discord for RPGs
  • PkmoutlPkmoutl Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    A lot of the "over-dicing" in gaming is really on the shoulders of the GM. I've seen GM's who literally make you roll for every action you make that is not just a personal action. I've had to roll to light someone else's cigarette before. That was just downright ludicrous.

    There's a certain balance you have to maintain, especially in a game that can tend to get too dicey, like Cyberpunk or Shadowrun or Rolemaster or even D&D to a certain extent. I usually just rely on standard common sense. Can you jump from this rooftop to that one? Maybe. Depends more on your Strength or your Athletics skill or whatever, but I'm not always going to make you roll it. If it's at a critical moment, like just as the building implodes, then yes. If it's just to try to get to the roof of the other building so that you can get a better view of something on the other side, then probably not.

    As far as playing without dice, I've done that a lot too. I run Amber DRPG about every year or so, and I've also managed to run WoD games without any die-rolling whatsoever for weeks on end. That's why it's Roleplaying and not Rollplaying. The dice are just kind of there to give the games a random element, but they aren't necessary. I've also been in games where there are no stat numbers. Everything was in descriptive words. Strength: Average. Intelligence: Brilliant. That sort of thing. You don't need the dice in order for it to be a game. You don't need dice to play Charades, after all, do you? And it's one of the oldest parlor games in existence.

    Pkmoutl on
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  • Beige ATMBeige ATM Registered User
    edited November 2006
    Moridan wrote:
    Comahawk wrote:
    Moridan wrote:
    I've got to mention two games that I really wanted to play:

    RIFTS - Really cool concept and setting. HORRIBLE rules. Very nearly unplayable without a spiral binder full of house rules.

    Wraith: the Oblivion - The best bad RPG I've ever read. Awesome atmosphere. Awesome setting. Awesome themes. A wonderful read. Totally unplayable with your average gaming group.

    Wraith was only unplayable due to the lack of ability by your players, not due to the mechanics or anything.

    It's awful hard to get 6 players to focus on the things the Wraith setting implied you should focus on, and have any real focus in the story at all. Exploring relationships with living relatives and friends, your living history, and your fetters is hard to do when everyone has their own agenda. The only playing style that works for that many people is the "adventure" type, and Wraith wasn't really designed for that.

    This is a very good point, I didn't think of this aspect. I guess that with the best group of players you could still have a great game, but I now see how the game itself makes this more difficult.

    Beige ATM on
    And if the music stops... there's only the sound of the rain
    All the hope and glory, all the sacrifice in vain
    And if love remains, though everything is lost,
    We will pay the price, but we will not count the cost.

    Rush - "Bravado"
  • SquashuaSquashua __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2006
    An issue I've had with Rifts from the get-go is a lack of character balance.

    If you don't understand that sentence, don't bother responding.

    Squashua on
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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I played Rifts, Nightbane, PFRPG and even a little Robotech for the better part of a decade.

    If you're looking for over the top sci-fi action and have a good gm/crew of friends to run with, it can be fine.

    However, it is not balanced, and compared to some other systems, it is horribly thought out. I don't like the percentile system for skills. There's little character progression in terms of what a level 1 character can do versus what a level 15 character can do. The only exception to this is Mages, who under the original rules, get fucked on several levels as it is. (later rules and sourcebooks alleviated this a bit) I don't like the rampant inconsistancies within their own rules, and the power creep that was everywhere in some of the books. (Anything by Carella is likely guilty of this, the guy's style for gear and creatures was "there are never enough 0's"). As silly as fighting rats may be in console or PnP rpg's, there's little progression in foes within the game. A level 1 party will likely have a similar time against a Coalition patrol that a level 5 party would have, except for potential gear differences that the GM allows, which is almost entirely dependant on how generous or stingy the GM is with the spoils of war, and has little to do with how long I've been playing my PA Pilot.

    And yes, house rules aplenty, and it took them years to put out any kind of compilation book where you could find just about everything. If you needed anything not in the original book, you'd probably be spending 5-20 minutes searching through a variety of world books, and have fun with anything particularly obscure.

    Sure, GM's can make judgement calls to expedite this, but then it comes down to noting the precedent for the future, or making a note of where that rule can be found... which leads to a binder full of notes.

    Rifts is not the worst RPG ever, but as much as I love the setting, I strongly dislike the mechanics of the game itself. I've been converted to the House of D20, which is not perfect either, but has a skill system that makes far more sense, great balance between classes, and progression within level advancement that makes my heart flutter.

    I haven't looked at D20 Modern or any futuristic games/supplements, so it's not an entirely fair comparison, but if they ever converted Rifts to D20 and did it well, I'd probably buy it in a heartbeat.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Squashua wrote:
    An issue I've had with Rifts from the get-go is a lack of character balance.

    If you don't understand that sentence, don't bother responding.

    Tell me about it, I tried to play in a RIFTs game once. I had an awesome idea for my character to be a Rogue Scholar refugee from Tolkeen, with a hard core vendetta against those damn skull boys. Teamed up with, a juicer and a cyber knight. He died several times (but I was given do overs by the GM) because the combat stuff that challanged the other PCs obliterated him if he was within half a mile. Do you know how hard it is to get half a mile away when ambushed by a bunch of dog boys? I was allowed to retool him so he didn't squish so easily, and he bascaly ended up being an ersatz glitter boy instead of being reduced to either sniping, or cowering and shrieking 'not in the face!'

    I can see why it can be a lot of fun, if everyone knows what they're doing, but it was my first time with Palladium, and it was mostly frustrating for me.

    Gabriel_Pitt on
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Now that is somthing that I can agree on with everyone else: The power creep in the palladium RPGs is a mother fucker, and magic is pretty fucking ineffectual unless your breaking out either world books or house rules.

    That having been said, to describe rifts (or any palladium product for that matter) as being one of the worst RPGs ever is just ignorant.

    Gaddez on
    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    I'll drink to that. The lowliest Palladium product is at least three standard deviations removed from World of Synnibar and the Spawn of Fashann.

    Gabriel_Pitt on
  • SquashuaSquashua __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2006
    Gaddez wrote:
    Now that is somthing that I can agree on with everyone else: The power creep in the palladium RPGs is a mother fucker, and magic is pretty fucking ineffectual unless your breaking out either world books or house rules.

    That having been said, to describe rifts (or any palladium product for that matter) as being one of the worst RPGs ever is just ignorant.

    Game System then.

    All RPGs break down into two things: System and Setting.

    Take, for example, any Marvel Comics Licensed game.

    Marvel as a RPG was has had Marvel Super Heroes as a system and SAGA as a system. But what's the underlying factor? The setting is the Marvel Universe.

    Why can't one use HERO or GURPS or Mutants & Masterminds? Here's the kicker: you can. As long as you understand the setting, you can use any system that can handle all of the nuances of the setting.

    Deadlands (Weird Wild West) is a good setting and fun system, but you're not going to find good mechanics for using a Hexslinger (card-based magician) that conform properly in any other system.

    RIFTS is an interesting setting. I loved the inspiration seeds you can find in "Beyond the Supernatural", but I do not care for the Palladium Game System. I think it's broken, and everything regarding character balance seems to have been done arbitrarily rather than aligned to any strict set of rules. Maybe that's good, maybe it's bad. Honestly, it all depends on your GM.

    A great GM can make any game good as long as he knows the setting and the setting appeals to his players; regardless of the system.

    Squashua on
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  • TreboriasTreborias Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Pkmoutl wrote:
    Can there be any more useless stat in all of gaming than, 'hymen resistance?' What does that number even mean? If that number was 1000, would that mean my character has a bullet proof cooch?

    I would imagine so.

    Could you picture combat, though?

    "They're attacking!"

    "Quick! Everyone behind me, my twat will protect us!"

    toing toing toing toing

    .... Can't.. stop Laughing....

    Oh god, my sides... they hurt, they hurt so much.

    Treborias on
    "Sit down, relax, I just want to ask you some questions.": The Interrogator/Umbrage
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Squashua wrote:
    Yammering about systems.

    Listen, the point of this thread is to joke about Games which are unrepentantly bad, and which offer virtually no redeeming value to the lions share of gamers, Not reem RPG's which have a few bugs to be worked out.

    Christ, If I was going to go by your logic I'd have to list worlds of darkness, since I think the lack of hard and fast rules puts a ridiculous ammount of power into the hands of the Storyteller.

    Gaddez on
    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    This just needs to be said: people who use any variation of the phrase "roleplaying not rollplaying" are complete fuckwits. Right up there with people who feel the need to bring up the fact that GOD is just DOG spelled backwards. It is a completely artificial dichotomy and serves no purpose other than to try and sound meaningful without actually generating a coherent thought.

    RiemannLives on
  • Beige ATMBeige ATM Registered User
    edited November 2006
    This just needs to be said: people who use any variation of the phrase "roleplaying not rollplaying" are complete fuckwits. Right up there with people who feel the need to bring up the fact that GOD is just DOG spelled backwards. It is a completely artificial dichotomy and serves no purpose other than to try and sound meaningful without actually generating a coherent thought.

    I just registered on the SA Forums last week. Now, how I long for the words

    "USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST"

    Beige ATM on
    And if the music stops... there's only the sound of the rain
    All the hope and glory, all the sacrifice in vain
    And if love remains, though everything is lost,
    We will pay the price, but we will not count the cost.

    Rush - "Bravado"
  • BucketmanBucketman Dyslexic Puppy Skraggle RockRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Pkmoutl wrote:
    Stuff about dice rolls

    I agree. I've played with all 3 DnD dice settings

    Low end: Dice only used in combat

    Mid End(I prefer): So...your carring roughly 100Lbs of gear down the stairs? Roll a dex save to see if you drop everything.

    High end: Roll to see if your Pee makes it in the bowl!

    The mid end is how i hope most people run things.

    Bucketman on
  • laughingfuzzballlaughingfuzzball Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    tBucketman: The mid end is how most games were designed to be played. It works very well. There are a lot of good games that are meant to be played in the low end or lower. I've never seen a mass market RPG that was meant to be played anywhere near high end. The few small market games that do that tend to fail by even small market standards.

    All RPG systems contain three primary elements: game, simulation, and narration. Every system has all three, but how they are emphasised varies a great deal. Where the game is emphasised, the focus will be on fairness and being able to 'win'. Where simulation is emphasised, the focus will be on reflecting the shared reality accurately. Where narration is emphasised, the focus will be on making the story interesting. This balance is possibly the largest determenant of an RPG's 'flow' and 'feel', but is generally ignored by everyone except designers and a specific subtype of uber-obsessive gamer.

    Palladium games dip heavily into simulationism.

    Game balance is sacrificed a little bit because it makes sense for a hobo to be completely overpowered by a dragon. Complete PC balance is only necesary when either the group is competing with one another (either directly or inderectly) or one the GM (or sometimes the group itself) treats the group as a single entity.

    Dice are rolled for things that would often be assumed in other games. In something with a more gamist bent, we'd assume the group knew how to get to Atlantis just so we could get to whatever conflict was to be resolved there. In a narrativist game, we''d assume the group could get there just to keep the story moving. In a simulationist game, we can only assume that the group can get there if it makes sense for the route to be common knowledge. If travel and knowledge of the outside world is repressed (like in RIFTS in North America), whether or not you know the way becomes a significant point of contention, and a situation where the resolution method becomes important.

    Simulationist games also tend to have very little in the way of character progression. Does it make sense for someone to who was barely competant with computers to be an expert a few months later? The rapid and frequent character progression found in most games is a purely gamist aspect. The reward for winning is becoming more likey to win. This creates a brief, coherent, and self contained reward cycle, but it also tends to strain suspension of disbelief (which can be bad for narration) and is unrealistic (which is, as already mentioned, contrary to simulation).

    People won't generally like games that don't fit into their preffered category. They'll like them even less if they try to make a system of one category conform to another. The Palladium system does heavy simulation better than anyone. While I don't like straight simulation, and I'm not fond of the RIFTS setting (too hadge-podgey for me, but some peopl like that), I can see that it's a good system. Saying Palladium is a bad system because it doesn't do all these things it wasn't intended to do is like saying Schindler's List was bad because it wasn't funny enough, or Terminator was unwatchable because of the lack of historical accuracy.

    /rant

    laughingfuzzball on
  • ReynoldsReynolds Last Good Brother Mobile, ALRegistered User regular
    edited November 2006
    tBucketman: It's not for you.

    Reynolds on
  • laughingfuzzballlaughingfuzzball Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    Sorry, only the first paragraph was to Bucketman, and was meant to be a sort of half agreement.

    That's pretty much my point, though.

    laughingfuzzball on
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2006
    Have you guys played "kill puppies for satan"?

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • laughingfuzzballlaughingfuzzball Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    No, but I've only heard good things about it.

    I've been meaning to pick up Dogs in the Vineyard by the same guy.

    Read his hate mail, it's hilarious.

    laughingfuzzball on
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    No, but I've only heard good things about it.

    I've been meaning to pick up Dogs in the Vineyard by the same guy.

    Read his hate mail, it's hilarious.
    I've learned from that that people who can't detect parody are incapable of proper grammar and spelling.

    PiptheFair on
    STEAM
    Skayel wrote:
    One time, I had a friend over to play a bit of Red Alert on my LAN. During the game he said he needed to go to the bathroom, so we paused it. After about 10 minutes of wondering where the hell he went, I get up and go to check on him.

    Turns out he was trying to screw my dog.
    Once I was taking a poop at a restaurant and a kid crept underneath the door into my stall. I let out a big fart and then he threw up all over the floor in front of me and I just stared at him.
  • laughingfuzzballlaughingfuzzball Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    PiptheFair wrote:
    No, but I've only heard good things about it.

    I've been meaning to pick up Dogs in the Vineyard by the same guy.

    Read his hate mail, it's hilarious.
    I've learned from that that people who can't detect parody are incapable of proper grammar and spelling.

    If they can't use the language properly, they can't very well be expected to understand subtle concepts :)

    My favorites are "hates 'for satin'" and "scarily for satan".

    laughingfuzzball on
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2006
    i got this site online by hand-coding the bastard in microfuck notefuck, then ftping it (using psftp) to my webhost's server.

    I laughed for a bit.

    he added new hate mail since the last time I read.

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • laughingfuzzballlaughingfuzzball Registered User regular
    edited November 2006
    So I take it you like kpfs?

    laughingfuzzball on
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