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1. We levelled up finally.
2. Also, half the group wiped due to 12 goblins and 2 bugbears or something.
3. I'm now convinced that my DM is bad. As a level 1 party, we captured a dragon wyrmling (through subdual damage) and returned it to the Kobolds who had lost it. Quest XP for the task that we though would be nearly impossible: 100. If I ever thought the module was bad, it was because our DM was doing a poor job of running it.
Ouch, that is brutal. Was the 100XP per person, or for the group? I consider completing a quest to be worth at least completing an encounter a level above the party's average (if not more if the quest was long or tough), not to mention story XP if completing the quest also furthers the main storyline.
Sounds like your DM is being a bit stingy with the rewards.
That fight also sounds a bit tough for a level 1 party. Bugbears are CR2 creatures, so just one of those alone should have been a decent challenge for your party, much less two, much less adding in 12 goblins. On the other hand, one thing that folks forget (but I remind my players and myself of) is that running away isn't always a bad thing. You can't win every fight, and you can usually come back later once you've regrouped. Was running away an option?
Ouch, that is brutal. Was the 100XP per person, or for the group? I consider completing a quest to be worth at least completing an encounter a level above the party's average (if not more if the quest was long or tough), not to mention story XP if completing the quest also furthers the main storyline.
Sounds like your DM is being a bit stingy with the rewards.
That fight also sounds a bit tough for a level 1 party. Bugbears are CR2 creatures, so just one of those alone should have been a decent challenge for your party, much less two, much less adding in 12 goblins. On the other hand, one thing that folks forget (but I remind my players and myself of) is that running away isn't always a bad thing. You can't win every fight, and you can usually come back later once you've regrouped. Was running away an option?
100 XP to each of the people that were still alive.
The ones that died did so because they were cornered. The rest of us ran off. It was mostly due to a guy not paying attention to the plan and just Leeroying it into the room. We wanted to bottleneck them in the doorway so that we would have to fight them two or three at a time. I think we could have taken them if we did that.
As I had mentioned before, it's been like six sessions, and we finally got to level 2, after the fight in which half the people died. I have to imagine that the module creators had intended the party to be at 2 before the fight, not after it. That would have made a huge difference.
From here on out, I'm not going to hesitate to abandon party members if it looks like a battle is going South. If it's going to take six sessions to get to level 2, I'm not going to be risky. Not the best roleplaying for a Cleric, but if the DM wants to run the game like this, so be it.
The problem originated with the fact that you started out with 6 folks.
4 players level 1.5 times faster than 6 players. I.E. 13.3 even CR enoucnters.
This usualy takes 1 to 2 game sessions as some encounters are lower than your CR and some encounters are higher than your CR[though i typically go with higher all the damn time, because single even CR monsters are usualy a pushover and multipule monster encounters are a pain to run due to the number of rolls].
Anyway, you should have been well into level 2 by the time you hit those bugbears by the sounds of it, which would have made the encounter. CR 4 or 5[(2 CR 2=CR 3), + (12 Cr .5= 3.5) = CR 4.5 or 5.5. encounter strength doubling below level 4 adds 1 CR to the CR and 2 CR above level 4]. Difficult, but not impossible for level 2 characters. It would drain 80% of their resources for the day, but everyone should survive.
Of course encounter CR increases dont go over as well for lower level characters so you were basically fighting an neigh impossible situation. It would also give 6 level 2 characters 400 experience each, so if only 3 survived they would get 800 xp.
Obviously that encounter was designed to be fought by level 2 or 3 characteres, 600 xp for 4 characters is 1/4 of the way to level 3, and half the way to level 2. I dont see how you could have gone through 5 sessions that are combat heavy and not have leveled if the encounter was then throwing things like this at you.
edit: I calced goblins at 1/2 CR when they are 1/3 CR, so everything above is wrong but only slightly...
Final CR was 4-5
Final XP before being divided between players would be 1500, or 375 XP for a 4 person party
The problem originated with the fact that you started out with 6 folks.
4 players level 1.5 times faster than 6 players. I.E. 13.3 even CR enoucnters.
This usualy takes 1 to 2 game sessions as some encounters are lower than your CR and some encounters are higher than your CR[though i typically go with higher all the damn time, because single even CR monsters are usualy a pushover and multipule monster encounters are a pain to run due to the number of rolls].
Anyway, you should have been well into level 2 by the time you hit those bugbears by the sounds of it, which would have made the encounter. CR 4 or 5[(2 CR 2=CR 3), + (12 Cr .5= 3.5) = CR 4.5 or 5.5. encounter strength doubling below level 4 adds 1 CR to the CR and 2 CR above level 4]. Difficult, but not impossible for level 2 characters. It would drain 80% of their resources for the day, but everyone should survive.
Of course encounter CR increases dont go over as well for lower level characters so you were basically fighting an neigh impossible situation. It would also give 6 level 2 characters 400 experience each, so if only 3 survived they would get 800 xp.
The main hitch is that our DM points to the module as being the problem every time we have an issue. Last time I checked, "The module is always right" isn't the first rule of D&D. He refuses to put any extra time and/or effort into modifying the module to accomodate 6 players.
The main hitch is that our DM points to the module as being the problem every time we have an issue. Last time I checked, "The module is always right" isn't the first rule of D&D. He refuses to put any extra time and/or effort into modifying the module to accomodate 6 players.
And what I am saying is that there is basically no way that even with 6 players the XP would be so low that you hadnt leveled.
By the time you are level 2 you should have 1000 gp in wealth, so the enemies had to have something on them, or in their lairs.
The main hitch is that our DM points to the module as being the problem every time we have an issue. Last time I checked, "The module is always right" isn't the first rule of D&D. He refuses to put any extra time and/or effort into modifying the module to accomodate 6 players.
And what I am saying is that there is basically no way that even with 6 players the XP would be so low that you hadnt leveled.
By the time you are level 2 you should have 1000 gp in wealth, so the enemies had to have something on them, or in their lairs.
As a group, we have about 150g in cash, and some as of yet unappraised treasure. I'd find it hard to imagine that the treasure would be worth 5000+ gold, but it's possible.
Well, as they say, stupidity leads to character creation. "Get 'em" really isn't a viable combat option most of the time, and I guess they learned that the hard way.
100XP each for a quest turn-in isn't THAT bad, assuming that you also got XP for "defeating" the dragon. Considering that a CR1 encounter for a 1st level party is 300XP, that's pretty much what you got (300/3 living party members). I still think, though, that quest completion rewards should be based off a CR at least one level higher than the party average, plus any XP gained during the quest.
Is your DM awarding roleplaying XP at all? I'm pretty sure most D&D modules allow and encourage this. If some folks are roleplaying, that should at least help them out a bit.
Finally, your DM sounds really lazy and/or uninterested about the whole thing. Does he even want to be doing this?
The main hitch is that our DM points to the module as being the problem every time we have an issue. Last time I checked, "The module is always right" isn't the first rule of D&D. He refuses to put any extra time and/or effort into modifying the module to accomodate 6 players.
And what I am saying is that there is basically no way that even with 6 players the XP would be so low that you hadnt leveled.
By the time you are level 2 you should have 1000 gp in wealth, so the enemies had to have something on them, or in their lairs.
As a group, we have about 150g in cash, and some as of yet unappraised treasure. I'd find it hard to imagine that the treasure would be worth 5000+ gold, but it's possible.
Art and Gems can get valuable really quickly, so you would be suprised.
This complaint is precisely, why as a player, I don't deal with straight modules at all anymore. I don't care of GMs outright steal material or dungeons, but the leveling up just ends up so out of whack.
Anyone ever play Dragon Mountain in 2ed? Classic shit. You spend the entire time fighting Kobolds and Goblins till you're good enough to kill the Red Dragon at the end.
I would suggest to your DM to stop adhereing so closely to the CRs and experience calculations. I'm a fan of systems that just give people a level up when you know, it feels like it's the right time. For example, in the group I've most recently played in - we generally got a level at the end of every session. We only got to play one day a week and four levels a month doesn't seem to high for a campaign that usually lasted a good 3-4 months.
Is your DM awarding roleplaying XP at all? I'm pretty sure most D&D modules allow and encourage this. If some folks are roleplaying, that should at least help them out a bit.
So far, I've been the only person RPing to any noticable degree. Up until some people died, I had less XP than anyone else, since I've refused to participate in a few things (like building a bridge out of bodies that they got XP for coming up with).
Finally, your DM sounds really lazy and/or uninterested about the whole thing. Does he even want to be doing this?
That's more or less the conclusion that I've come to. He actually said "I'm not going to put any more time into this than you guys do" last session. I'm thinking about just quitting the campaign.
I would recommend quitting. I never realized how lucky I was to grow up playing in campaigns where it was concidered a disgrace to not right your own adventures.
Is your DM awarding roleplaying XP at all? I'm pretty sure most D&D modules allow and encourage this. If some folks are roleplaying, that should at least help them out a bit.
So far, I've been the only person RPing to any noticable degree. Up until some people died, I had less XP than anyone else, since I've refused to participate in a few things (like building a bridge out of bodies that they got XP for coming up with).
Finally, your DM sounds really lazy and/or uninterested about the whole thing. Does he even want to be doing this?
That's more or less the conclusion that I've come to. He actually said "I'm not going to put any more time into this than you guys do" last session. I'm thinking about just quitting the campaign.
See, you should have gotten as much XP as the other characters for NOT participating in building the body bridge since that goes against your character's ethics.
Sadly, it just sounds like this campaign may not be for you. Are the other players equally unenthusiastic about the whole thing?
I would recommend quitting. I never realized how lucky I was to grow up playing in campaigns where it was concidered a disgrace to not right your own adventures.
Ditto, which is why I know how much this campaign sucks ass.
I talked to our DM and he is 100% uninterested in DMing. So I will be taking over after our next session. I'll be stealing enough of the plot of the remaining module to wrap things up, then move full-swing into a real campaign.
I talked to our DM and he is 100% uninterested in DMing. So I will be taking over after our next session. I'll be stealing enough of the plot of the remaining module to wrap things up, then move full-swing into a real campaign.
I talked to our DM and he is 100% uninterested in DMing. So I will be taking over after our next session. I'll be stealing enough of the plot of the remaining module to wrap things up, then move full-swing into a real campaign.
Huzzah! Well done.
Karilmat on
0
RankenphilePassersby were amazedby the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, ModeratorMod Emeritus
edited September 2006
Good for you, Doc.
Be sure to share some stories of how it all works out.
So far, I've been the only person RPing to any noticable degree. Up until some people died, I had less XP than anyone else, since I've refused to participate in a few things (like building a bridge out of bodies that they got XP for coming up with).
Why when I think back on this I Imagine "New Yankee Workshop"
Norm: Today we are gunna make a nice cabinet out of the bodies of the women and children of a small farming village and later we gunna check in with my friend the gravedigger to see which bodies make the best building material.
Cooking with Martha Stewart: special guest Charlton Heston
M: Well, Charlton, this new soylent recipe is certainly tasty. How did you come by it?
C: Well, Martha, it's really a blend of old and new cadavers; the fresh ones have that juicy quality about them which is balanced by the delicate aging process in the more seasoned ones. Plus, I have to say that your kobold brain fondue is simply amazing.
M: Thanks, Charlton.
By the way, Doc, I hope you turn your players frowns upside down. There's nothing like pissy players to turn a good group into...more...pissy players. I'm really not feeling it right now. Sorry.
Posts
Ouch, that is brutal. Was the 100XP per person, or for the group? I consider completing a quest to be worth at least completing an encounter a level above the party's average (if not more if the quest was long or tough), not to mention story XP if completing the quest also furthers the main storyline.
Sounds like your DM is being a bit stingy with the rewards.
That fight also sounds a bit tough for a level 1 party. Bugbears are CR2 creatures, so just one of those alone should have been a decent challenge for your party, much less two, much less adding in 12 goblins. On the other hand, one thing that folks forget (but I remind my players and myself of) is that running away isn't always a bad thing. You can't win every fight, and you can usually come back later once you've regrouped. Was running away an option?
100 XP to each of the people that were still alive.
The ones that died did so because they were cornered. The rest of us ran off. It was mostly due to a guy not paying attention to the plan and just Leeroying it into the room. We wanted to bottleneck them in the doorway so that we would have to fight them two or three at a time. I think we could have taken them if we did that.
As I had mentioned before, it's been like six sessions, and we finally got to level 2, after the fight in which half the people died. I have to imagine that the module creators had intended the party to be at 2 before the fight, not after it. That would have made a huge difference.
From here on out, I'm not going to hesitate to abandon party members if it looks like a battle is going South. If it's going to take six sessions to get to level 2, I'm not going to be risky. Not the best roleplaying for a Cleric, but if the DM wants to run the game like this, so be it.
4 players level 1.5 times faster than 6 players. I.E. 13.3 even CR enoucnters.
This usualy takes 1 to 2 game sessions as some encounters are lower than your CR and some encounters are higher than your CR[though i typically go with higher all the damn time, because single even CR monsters are usualy a pushover and multipule monster encounters are a pain to run due to the number of rolls].
Anyway, you should have been well into level 2 by the time you hit those bugbears by the sounds of it, which would have made the encounter. CR 4 or 5[(2 CR 2=CR 3), + (12 Cr .5= 3.5) = CR 4.5 or 5.5. encounter strength doubling below level 4 adds 1 CR to the CR and 2 CR above level 4]. Difficult, but not impossible for level 2 characters. It would drain 80% of their resources for the day, but everyone should survive.
Of course encounter CR increases dont go over as well for lower level characters so you were basically fighting an neigh impossible situation. It would also give 6 level 2 characters 400 experience each, so if only 3 survived they would get 800 xp.
Obviously that encounter was designed to be fought by level 2 or 3 characteres, 600 xp for 4 characters is 1/4 of the way to level 3, and half the way to level 2. I dont see how you could have gone through 5 sessions that are combat heavy and not have leveled if the encounter was then throwing things like this at you.
edit: I calced goblins at 1/2 CR when they are 1/3 CR, so everything above is wrong but only slightly...
Final CR was 4-5
Final XP before being divided between players would be 1500, or 375 XP for a 4 person party
The main hitch is that our DM points to the module as being the problem every time we have an issue. Last time I checked, "The module is always right" isn't the first rule of D&D. He refuses to put any extra time and/or effort into modifying the module to accomodate 6 players.
And what I am saying is that there is basically no way that even with 6 players the XP would be so low that you hadnt leveled.
By the time you are level 2 you should have 1000 gp in wealth, so the enemies had to have something on them, or in their lairs.
As a group, we have about 150g in cash, and some as of yet unappraised treasure. I'd find it hard to imagine that the treasure would be worth 5000+ gold, but it's possible.
100XP each for a quest turn-in isn't THAT bad, assuming that you also got XP for "defeating" the dragon. Considering that a CR1 encounter for a 1st level party is 300XP, that's pretty much what you got (300/3 living party members). I still think, though, that quest completion rewards should be based off a CR at least one level higher than the party average, plus any XP gained during the quest.
Is your DM awarding roleplaying XP at all? I'm pretty sure most D&D modules allow and encourage this. If some folks are roleplaying, that should at least help them out a bit.
Finally, your DM sounds really lazy and/or uninterested about the whole thing. Does he even want to be doing this?
Art and Gems can get valuable really quickly, so you would be suprised.
Anyone ever play Dragon Mountain in 2ed? Classic shit. You spend the entire time fighting Kobolds and Goblins till you're good enough to kill the Red Dragon at the end.
I would suggest to your DM to stop adhereing so closely to the CRs and experience calculations. I'm a fan of systems that just give people a level up when you know, it feels like it's the right time. For example, in the group I've most recently played in - we generally got a level at the end of every session. We only got to play one day a week and four levels a month doesn't seem to high for a campaign that usually lasted a good 3-4 months.
So far, I've been the only person RPing to any noticable degree. Up until some people died, I had less XP than anyone else, since I've refused to participate in a few things (like building a bridge out of bodies that they got XP for coming up with).
That's more or less the conclusion that I've come to. He actually said "I'm not going to put any more time into this than you guys do" last session. I'm thinking about just quitting the campaign.
See, you should have gotten as much XP as the other characters for NOT participating in building the body bridge since that goes against your character's ethics.
Sadly, it just sounds like this campaign may not be for you. Are the other players equally unenthusiastic about the whole thing?
Ditto, which is why I know how much this campaign sucks ass.
They are all somewhat new and don't know how much it sucks compared to a good campaign, so they are okay with it.
I talked to our DM and he is 100% uninterested in DMing. So I will be taking over after our next session. I'll be stealing enough of the plot of the remaining module to wrap things up, then move full-swing into a real campaign.
Huzzah! Well done.
Be sure to share some stories of how it all works out.
Not if their character is supposed to be "lawful neutral."
Why when I think back on this I Imagine "New Yankee Workshop"
Norm: Today we are gunna make a nice cabinet out of the bodies of the women and children of a small farming village and later we gunna check in with my friend the gravedigger to see which bodies make the best building material.
M: Well, Charlton, this new soylent recipe is certainly tasty. How did you come by it?
C: Well, Martha, it's really a blend of old and new cadavers; the fresh ones have that juicy quality about them which is balanced by the delicate aging process in the more seasoned ones. Plus, I have to say that your kobold brain fondue is simply amazing.
M: Thanks, Charlton.
By the way, Doc, I hope you turn your players frowns upside down. There's nothing like pissy players to turn a good group into...more...pissy players. I'm really not feeling it right now. Sorry.
Doc, the "scythe while they're asleep" talk was just a joke!