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A twinkless mmorpg server... (for improved balance and economy)

1235

Posts

  • cncaudatacncaudata Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    But some teams have more money. Surely their ability to offer $Texas as opposed to $SouthDakota to a prospective young star is Unfair and must be balanced.

    My sarcasm filter is broken, so forgive me...

    This is exactly what I'm arguing against. There exist competitive games where even given a gargantuan advantage, the underdog still has a fighting chance. There is no reason WoW pvp brackets should not also be this way.

    cncaudata on
    PSN: Broodax- battle.net: broodax#1163
  • cncaudatacncaudata Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Nerdtendo wrote: »
    Not to mention that there's still been situations where one side was completely outmatched. I don't follow sports, but something tells me that there's been teams that played some pretty terrible seasons.

    Correct, and in actual competitive leagues, those "terrible" seasons are still at a ~30% winning level. That is what makes the leagues competitive.

    cncaudata on
    PSN: Broodax- battle.net: broodax#1163
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Bama wrote: »
    Forar wrote: »
    Under your belief system, do you condone exploiting? Actual cheating? If not, why not? They are, of course, just another method of winning, of ensuring your victory over your opponents.
    You understand that exploiting and cheating are distinct from twinking, so why does it matter how he feels about them? The best idea is to design a system that will create the kind of competition you want so that the participants don't have to play referee and can just "play 'til the whistle blows."

    They are very seperate, but I'm curious if "the ends justify the means" extends beyond slapping a 12 stam enchant on level 38 boots or not.

    The school I went to has no bearing on twinking either, but he felt free to ask that out of left field all the same.

    PS: I'm 28. I'm way beyond that "not keeping score because it might hurt someone's feelings" bullshit.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    cncaudata wrote: »
    But some teams have more money. Surely their ability to offer $Texas as opposed to $SouthDakota to a prospective young star is Unfair and must be balanced.

    My sarcasm filter is broken, so forgive me...

    This is exactly what I'm arguing against. There exist competitive games where even given a gargantuan advantage, the underdog still has a fighting chance. There is no reason WoW pvp brackets should not also be this way.

    Um...they are this way.

    Just because you roll over and play dead when you see a twink doesn't mean everyone else has to.

    It's the same difference.

    The Dude With Herpes on
    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

  • Wombat02Wombat02 Registered User
    edited September 2008
    How about a system where you get a some sort of rank or rating for winning. Then Blizzard can match everyone up based on their rating and that will fix everything!

    Wombat02 on
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Wombat02 wrote: »
    How about a system where you get a some sort of rank or rating for winning. Then Blizzard can match everyone up based on their rating and that will fix everything!

    Funny, they tried that with the arenas.

    People have been breaking it for every season since, or so I hear. I gave up during the bullshit that was S3.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • cncaudatacncaudata Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Um...they are this way.

    Just because you roll over and play dead when you see a twink doesn't mean everyone else has to.

    It's the same difference.

    Do you really believe that anyone has a fighting chance against a character with 3 times the hitpoints, 50% avoidance, 5 times the crit chance, double the weapon damage, and a run speed increase*? Maybe if the twink is a gerbil with no paws, sure.



    *all made up numbers.

    EDIT: God, arenas. Blizzard really dropped the ball. Personal rating, teams matched up based on average or weighted average or something similar, never resets. Done, problems solved. Douchebags can come down and tear your shit up if they want, but only if they lose as many games as they win, since they will otherwise be matched up against similarly skilled/geared opponents. There is no reason to allow a reset, since when your rating is low, you'll play worse teams and it will go up. Seriously, why did they make it complicated? That's what the whole point/rating system thing they use was designed for in the first place!

    cncaudata on
    PSN: Broodax- battle.net: broodax#1163
  • Wombat02Wombat02 Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Forar wrote: »
    Wombat02 wrote: »
    How about a system where you get a some sort of rank or rating for winning. Then Blizzard can match everyone up based on their rating and that will fix everything!

    Funny, they tried that with the arenas.

    People have been breaking it for every season since, or so I hear. I gave up during the bullshit that was S3.

    Perhaps I need [sarcasm] tags?

    Wombat02 on
  • DayDay Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Wombat02 wrote: »
    How about a system where you get a some sort of rank or rating for winning. Then Blizzard can match everyone up based on their rating and that will fix everything!

    Has to work. Has to.

    Day on
    Currently Playing: TF2/Audiosurf
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
  • NerdtendoNerdtendo Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    cncaudata wrote: »
    But some teams have more money. Surely their ability to offer $Texas as opposed to $SouthDakota to a prospective young star is Unfair and must be balanced.

    My sarcasm filter is broken, so forgive me...

    This is exactly what I'm arguing against. There exist competitive games where even given a gargantuan advantage, the underdog still has a fighting chance. There is no reason WoW pvp brackets should not also be this way.

    They are that way. The players just aren't as smart as your sports teams. They do have every opportunity to gear themselves out, or with your sports analogy, look for the best players.

    If a sports team decides to fill their roster with whatever's easily available to them from local universities, it's their own fault when they lose terribly.

    edit: late post, sorry

    Nerdtendo on
    IHZR47b.png
  • DayDay Registered User
    edited September 2008
    cncaudata wrote: »
    Um...they are this way.

    Just because you roll over and play dead when you see a twink doesn't mean everyone else has to.

    It's the same difference.

    Do you really believe that anyone has a fighting chance against a character with 3 times the hitpoints, 50% avoidance, 5 times the crit chance, double the weapon damage, and a run speed increase*? Maybe if the twink is a gerbil with no paws, sure.



    *all made up numbers.
    Yes, other people who care enough about winning to gear their character properly stand this chance.

    Day on
    Currently Playing: TF2/Audiosurf
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Wombat02 wrote: »
    Forar wrote: »
    Wombat02 wrote: »
    How about a system where you get a some sort of rank or rating for winning. Then Blizzard can match everyone up based on their rating and that will fix everything!

    Funny, they tried that with the arenas.

    People have been breaking it for every season since, or so I hear. I gave up during the bullshit that was S3.

    Perhaps I need [sarcasm] tags?

    No no, it's cool, I saw what you did there.

    I just can't help but shit on the arenas. I consider it karmic balance, after they shat all over me. Gladiator teams with weapons and shoulders in the 1300's has a way of ruining your day.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • PeregrineFalconPeregrineFalcon Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    People seem to be missing the obvious point that you require a main character to twink your alt from. That shit takes time and effort. Or do you think money/epic loot/massive buff drops just grow on trees?

    PeregrineFalcon on
    Looking for a DX:HR OnLive code for my kid brother.
    Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    cncaudata wrote: »
    Um...they are this way.

    Just because you roll over and play dead when you see a twink doesn't mean everyone else has to.

    It's the same difference.

    Do you really believe that anyone has a fighting chance against a character with 3 times the hitpoints, 50% avoidance, 5 times the crit chance, double the weapon damage, and a run speed increase*? Maybe if the twink is a gerbil with no paws, sure.



    *all made up numbers.

    Clearly those are all made up numbers.

    There's no tier where you are allowed enchants so powerful that a twink is exponentially stronger than a properly geared player of that level.

    Obviously, if you've been neglecting your gear and you hop into a BG you'll be underpowered. And obviously if you hop into a BG at a lower level than the top level of that tier, you're likely to get stomped.

    But if you take the time, as you're leveling up, to keep your gear up to date; no amount of equipment or enchants on a player is going to be so grossly overpowered that they can't be defeated.

    Too many people just see the glow on a weapon and just lay down and die.

    And then go bitch about it on an interweb forum.

    EDIT: Except, ironically, the 70 BG's. A S3/4 player is going to stomp a new 70 with greens and blues. But this isn't what is being bitched about here.

    The Dude With Herpes on
    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

  • DayDay Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Obviously equipping gear is an exploit of the system. I should go in BGs in greys, not white, that would be OP to the people who only own greys. My feeling of accomplishment and pride in not exploiting the system will be all the reward I need at the end of the BG.

    Day on
    Currently Playing: TF2/Audiosurf
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
  • cncaudatacncaudata Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Nerdtendo wrote: »
    They are that way. The players just aren't as smart as your sports teams. They do have every opportunity to gear themselves out, or with your sports analogy, look for the best players.

    If a sports team decides to fill their roster with whatever's easily available to them from local universities, it's their own fault when they lose terribly.

    edit: late post, sorry

    I guess my analogy failed...

    Sports teams can't do this, they have limited funds, operate under draft rules, etc. They are still competitive because the rules of the game allow them to be. WoW is not this way. WoW requires every player to have a 100 year history in the largest market in the world and the associated revenue.

    cncaudata on
    PSN: Broodax- battle.net: broodax#1163
  • DayDay Registered User
    edited September 2008
    People seem to be missing the obvious point that you require a main character to twink your alt from. That shit takes time and effort. Or do you think money/epic loot/massive buff drops just grow on trees?
    Exactly. That's why they've obviously earned the right to use that character to help twink their alt... good point.

    Day on
    Currently Playing: TF2/Audiosurf
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Arenas are just another example of Blizzard failing to wedge decent pvp into a game that wasn't designed for it.

    Bama on
  • DayDay Registered User
    edited September 2008
    cncaudata wrote: »
    Nerdtendo wrote: »
    They are that way. The players just aren't as smart as your sports teams. They do have every opportunity to gear themselves out, or with your sports analogy, look for the best players.

    If a sports team decides to fill their roster with whatever's easily available to them from local universities, it's their own fault when they lose terribly.

    edit: late post, sorry

    I guess my analogy failed...

    Sports teams can't do this, they have limited funds, operate under draft rules, etc. They are still competitive because the rules of the game allow them to be. WoW is not this way. WoW requires every player to have a 100 year history in the largest market in the world and the associated revenue.
    WoW is also a video game.

    Day on
    Currently Playing: TF2/Audiosurf
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Y'know what? On second thought? Most of the people below 60 or 70 are probably alts.

    They knew what was going on when they went in there.

    Fuck 'em.

    TWINK OR DIE BITCHES.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Day wrote: »
    Obviously equipping gear is an exploit of the system. I should go in BGs in greys, not white, that would be OP to the people who only own greys. My feeling of accomplishment and pride in not exploiting the system will be all the reward I need at the end of the BG.
    Oh for fuck's sake, is the view nice up on that cross or what?

    Bama on
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Bama wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    Obviously equipping gear is an exploit of the system. I should go in BGs in greys, not white, that would be OP to the people who only own greys. My feeling of accomplishment and pride in not exploiting the system will be all the reward I need at the end of the BG.
    Oh for fuck's sake, is the view nice up on that cross or what?

    Really? Because he's not the one playing martyr about supposedly not having a chance.

    The Dude With Herpes on
    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

  • DayDay Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Bama wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    Obviously equipping gear is an exploit of the system. I should go in BGs in greys, not white, that would be OP to the people who only own greys. My feeling of accomplishment and pride in not exploiting the system will be all the reward I need at the end of the BG.
    Oh for fuck's sake, is the view nice up on that cross or what?
    There's room for one more.

    Day on
    Currently Playing: TF2/Audiosurf
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
  • NerdtendoNerdtendo Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Day wrote: »
    cncaudata wrote: »
    Nerdtendo wrote: »
    They are that way. The players just aren't as smart as your sports teams. They do have every opportunity to gear themselves out, or with your sports analogy, look for the best players.

    If a sports team decides to fill their roster with whatever's easily available to them from local universities, it's their own fault when they lose terribly.

    edit: late post, sorry

    I guess my analogy failed...

    Sports teams can't do this, they have limited funds, operate under draft rules, etc. They are still competitive because the rules of the game allow them to be. WoW is not this way. WoW requires every player to have a 100 year history in the largest market in the world and the associated revenue.
    WoW is also a video game.

    And the scaled time you refer to comes out to be a couple months in reality.

    Or a few days with the help of a guild.

    Nerdtendo on
    IHZR47b.png
  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Bama wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    Obviously equipping gear is an exploit of the system. I should go in BGs in greys, not white, that would be OP to the people who only own greys. My feeling of accomplishment and pride in not exploiting the system will be all the reward I need at the end of the BG.
    Oh for fuck's sake, is the view nice up on that cross or what?

    Really? Because he's not the one playing martyr about supposedly not having a chance.
    Oh yea, there's plenty of bitching in the thread, but from the get-go he has been spouting all this vow of poverty bullshit and acting like twinking is the same thing as trying to play well.

    Bama on
  • DayDay Registered User
    edited September 2008
    It is the same thing, god damn.

    Day on
    Currently Playing: TF2/Audiosurf
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Day wrote: »
    It is the same thing, god damn.
    You can play well without twinking.

    edit: well, maybe you can't. I don't know. :P

    Bama on
  • DayDay Registered User
    edited September 2008
    And you can twink without playing well... we going back down this road?

    Day on
    Currently Playing: TF2/Audiosurf
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    That seems to me like they're different things, then.

    Bama on
  • cncaudatacncaudata Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Re: Twink equipment enchants are not overpowered - I don't know if I'm doing this right, but I just searched for items with a required level between 15-19 and more than 10 stamina. There are none. Nethercleft Leg Armor gives 40 stamina.

    A few months spent before I can pvp with my character at level 19? That seams reasonable. You're missing the point. If the game was to make the best level 19 PvP character, then that would be fine. Hell, that IS the game now. However, the game where you get to play PvP as you level your character up, that one doesn't exist, and that is the problem, and my only complaint.

    cncaudata on
    PSN: Broodax- battle.net: broodax#1163
  • DayDay Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Ok lets break this down. Hypothetically I love 29 bracket PVP, specifically a hunter. So I decide I want to roll me a hunter to do nothing but PVP at 29 when my main gets stale. What kind of moron would I be to not want to maximize every available helpful stat that I could for a hunter at 29? Should I make a crappy character so I don't feel guilty about killing the other faction members that didn't take the time to gear up for the BG? I came prepared, you came in half busted rag tag gear, hurting your team more than I'm helping mine, but I'm the asshole somehow.

    Day on
    Currently Playing: TF2/Audiosurf
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
  • DayDay Registered User
    edited September 2008
    cncaudata wrote: »
    Re: Twink equipment enchants are not overpowered - I don't know if I'm doing this right, but I just searched for items with a required level between 15-19 and more than 10 stamina. There are none. Nethercleft Leg Armor gives 40 stamina.

    A few months spent before I can pvp with my character at level 19? That seams reasonable. You're missing the point. If the game was to make the best level 19 PvP character, then that would be fine. Hell, that IS the game now. However, the game where you get to play PvP as you level your character up, that one doesn't exist, and that is the problem, and my only complaint.

    If you're trying to level up you'll be 19 for what 1-2 hours max?? So it's really nothing to ruffle your feathers over. What intelligent new people to the game do, is read up on how to assist their team memebers that are decked out, or how to gear their character better. My girlfriend is going through this learning curve now, but she's not crying about it, she's asking me for tips on helping her team and where she can get better gear at. She knows she's only going to be in the lower brackets for a short amount of time and understands that other people like to stay in those brackets for PVP only.

    Day on
    Currently Playing: TF2/Audiosurf
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/Daymion
  • cncaudatacncaudata Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Absolutely not, Day. You should make the best level 29 dude you can. However, Blizzard should make sure that it's not capable of easily taking out 6 level 29 "normal" characters, or they should provide a special place for you to fight other twinks, or something.

    AND, you should realize that when you are done, you are no longer involved in a competitive contest of pvp. You already won that. When you are done, you are just making other people annoyed.

    cncaudata on
    PSN: Broodax- battle.net: broodax#1163
  • NerdtendoNerdtendo Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Bama wrote: »
    That seems to me like they're different things, then.

    A good player specifically going for the level 20-29 PvP bracket would probably twink, though. Doing otherwise would be a bad decision, since it won't give them the greatest advantage they could have.

    No, they're not the same thing, but they can be related.

    Nerdtendo on
    IHZR47b.png
  • eobeteobet Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Munacra wrote: »
    I think mainly PVP in wow is competition based on gear which amounts snobby rich boy competitions akin to: "my daddy bought me this" and well, "my daddy bought me this and its more expensive."

    Rewarding players for the amount of time they have spent grinding instead of by how well they have played in an individual contest is frankly asinine. But that is apparently the way pvp in wow (apparently) has been designed, so the rules of the game are the rules of the game.

    Imo opinion, you hit the nail on the head there.

    Of course Blizzard rewards players for how long they have spent in the game. It's money in their pocket!

    Silly me. Who cares that it's supposed to be a role playing game.

    And game companies who are releasing new MMORPGs often don't survive long enough to have to worry about server economy and twinks anyway, so they don't care about it either!

    eobet on
    Heard the proposition that RIAA and MPAA should join forces and form "Music And Film Industry Association"?
  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    eobet wrote: »
    Of course Blizzard rewards players for how long they have spent in the game. It's money in their pocket!

    Silly me. Who cares that it's supposed to be a role playing game.
    Characters that become more powerful with experience are pretty much a defining aspect of RPGs.

    Bama on
  • NerdtendoNerdtendo Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Well, modern RPG's.

    The real defining aspect of RPG's are the guilds that go to a bar, get drunk, and start a bar fight.

    Nerdtendo on
    IHZR47b.png
  • acronomiconacronomicon Registered User
    edited September 2008
    Bama wrote: »
    eobet wrote: »
    Of course Blizzard rewards players for how long they have spent in the game. It's money in their pocket!

    Silly me. Who cares that it's supposed to be a role playing game.
    Characters that become more powerful with experience are pretty much a defining aspect of RPGs.

    Sure. Characters that become more powerful with THEIR experience are a defining aspect of RPGs. Most RPGs aren't centered around character <y> becoming more powerful because character <z> has been farming for weeks.

    acronomicon on
    32340.jpg
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHAZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Day wrote: »
    WoW is also a video game.

    Once I get my WoW cosplay SCA league going it won't be.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited September 2008
    Feral wrote: »
    Day wrote: »
    WoW is also a video game.

    Once I get my WoW cosplay SCA league going it won't be.
    I knew you only played a druid because you were a furry.

    Bama on
This discussion has been closed.