I want to see it become the 1h special animation. To see that try Crusader Striking with a 1h equipped.
This is what I was thinking, but with something holyish (make your weapon glow yellow?) about it.
815165 on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
it already does the hammer bouncing between the targets
that hammer moves pretty fast and is hard to see, i would prefer someting like the Judgement hammers, except three of them coming down simultaneously on top of the mobs
it already does the hammer bouncing between the targets
that hammer moves pretty fast and is hard to see, i would prefer someting like the Judgement hammers, except three of them coming down simultaneously on top of the mobs
I was just about to say the same thing. That would be cool. But would probably cause a small lag spike if your in a big raid with alot of mobs.
Hey Peeveepee...adins, do you really think HoJ is worth going balls deep 18 points into prot tree for? I mean, yeah stuns are nice, but 18 points to lower the CD? Don't you think that's a bit excessive considering all the DPS you will be giving up out of the Ret tree?
Aside from the HoJ talent, there's like nothing low in the Prot tree that is attractive at all. Like, the 6% damage reduction is nice, but 9 times out of 10 it gets dispelled anyways, so what's the point?
15% strength, shorter snares, lower BoP cooldown, longer HoF duration (more time to dispell it rite?) are all pretty ok for ret, especially with HoJ now working as an interrupt (presuming the interrupt part still works on resists otherwise that's totally pointless in PVP, though a 20sec, with gloves, HoJ cooldown is good).
815165 on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Hey Peeveepee...adins, do you really think HoJ is worth going balls deep 18 points into prot tree for? I mean, yeah stuns are nice, but 18 points to lower the CD? Don't you think that's a bit excessive considering all the DPS you will be giving up out of the Ret tree?
Aside from the HoJ talent, there's like nothing low in the Prot tree that is attractive at all. Like, the 6% damage reduction is nice, but 9 times out of 10 it gets dispelled anyways, so what's the point?
Well, it's a 5 second stun every 20 seconds with the PvP set. So you can have someone stunned 20% of the time you fight them.
However, with 2hand spec reverted back to how it was...it's hard to go that deep anymore.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I wish this game weren't so damn focused around CC. >.<
It really isn't with the judgement nerf and the fact that we get a significant amount of damage from our other talents. It's still a good talent for PvE for the threat reduction (and since we can't stun bosses).
At this point, the main reason why you judge in PvP is to regain mana :P
Munkus Beaver on
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2% is pretty shit, but I guess if there's another Pally around it's better than nothing.
Wavechaser on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
2% is pretty shit, but I guess if there's another Pally around it's better than nothing.
That's pretty much the only reason why. E4E is only useful in PvE if you have resilience. And kings at 2% is better than nothing if there is another pally in the raid with imp might.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Ret should be as close to the top as anyone else. Our buckets at this point are basically DPS, Tanks, Healers. When the tank and healer are doing dps, it's even closer.
You may be a couple hundred dps lower than a pure dps class (hunter, mage, warlock, rogue) but for most players, the numbers will be close enough that a raid with a good Retadin and an okay rogue will see Ret on top.
This is a change in philosophy from the BC era, where we would engineer hybrid classes to be 25% to 30% and sometimes much lower than dps classes.
How does that compare to the state of ret paladins currently? Is ~200 dps short of other classes good enough for raids to bring more than 1 to high level content?
I haven't really paid much attention to the balance of dps classes, I just tank stuff.
Aldarez on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited September 2008
Ret pallies do horrible DPS right now, but can boost raid DPS enough to 'justify' a slot.
Unless they are fighting demons or undead.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
How does that compare to the state of ret paladins currently? Is ~200 dps short of other classes good enough for raids to bring more than 1 to high level content?
I haven't really paid much attention to the balance of dps classes, I just tank stuff.
~200 dps short? Its more like 400 dps short of other dps classes.
If things end up as Blizzard intends (according to Ghostcrawler), and Ret Paladins are only behind pure dps classes by about 200dps in the expansion, will that be good enough for a serious guild to include more than one in a raid?
Basically I'm not sure how much of a difference a serious guild allows for, and whether that will get Ret out of it's current "never more than one" predicament.
If things end up as Blizzard intends (according to Ghostcrawler), and Ret Paladins are only behind pure dps classes by about 200dps in the expansion, will that be good enough for a serious guild to include more than one in a raid?
Basically I'm not sure how much of a difference a serious guild allows for, and whether that will get Ret out of it's current "never more than one" predicament.
200 dps at level 80 is likely going to be nothing. If the gap were only 200 at level 70, ret pallies would be more welcome than they are.
DisruptorX2 on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
I don't know aldarez, tezlo does upwards of 1500 dps on some fights and never does less than 1.2-1.3k, and he's missing a lot of key t6 loot
If things end up as Blizzard intends (according to Ghostcrawler), and Ret Paladins are only behind pure dps classes by about 200dps in the expansion, will that be good enough for a serious guild to include more than one in a raid?
Basically I'm not sure how much of a difference a serious guild allows for, and whether that will get Ret out of it's current "never more than one" predicament.
Considering we bring more than straight DPS to a raid, and that 200 dps difference at 80 will basically be laughable considering the numbers people will be throwing around; yes, I think it's safe to say there will be plenty of spots for more than one Paladin in a raid.
Looking at my guild's Sunwell WWS, our raiding ret paladin ranges from ~1500 to ~2200 DPS, depending on the fight (is it a demon / paladin friendly / whatever). Seal twisting is broken!
Also, no, I don't see there being a point to bringing more than 1 ret paladin per raid, but I don't think this is a problem either.
Looking at my guild's Sunwell WWS, our raiding ret paladin ranges from ~1500 to ~2200 DPS, depending on the fight (is it a demon / paladin friendly / whatever). Seal twisting is broken
Yeah, exactly, right now if you're a Blood Elf Paladin, DPS is nowhere near "horrible" and ret is most welcome in any guild.
I also think that when Ghost said that about dps, he was comparing our self buff/by ourselves dps. You add things like Enhance totems, and we're right back up there.
Also, I'm thinking if you get a real good player with quality gear, they have just as much of a chance to top the dps meters as anyone else.
Something that worries me a bit since we are sharing our gear with Warriors in LK, how much hit are we going to need at 80, not much right? I know that TG specced Warriors will be dying to get their hands on the stuff so i'm guessing there will be at least some itemized +hit gear.
Something that worries me a bit since we are sharing our gear with Warriors in LK, how much hit are we going to need at 80, not much right? I know that TG specced Warriors will be dying to get their hands on the stuff so i'm guessing there will be at least some itemized +hit gear.
There is alot of hit on level 80 gear. Most of what I've seen at least. I'm thinking thats why they took it out of the talents. Because it will be common enough to not worry about.
Arvo on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
When Druids voiced their concern about sharing Rogue gear, particularly because we don't need nowhere near as much +hit as they do, blues responded by saying that they expect things to go so that Rogues will socket for +hit while Druids will socket for AP or crit. I suspect they intend the same thing for the plate wearers: those dual-wielding asses will be socketing for +hit and 2hander folks will be socketing for strength and/or crit.
When Druids voiced their concern about sharing Rogue gear, particularly because we don't need nowhere near as much +hit as they do, blues responded by saying that they expect things to go so that Rogues will socket for +hit while Druids will socket for AP or crit. I suspect they intend the same thing for the plate wearers: those dual-wielding asses will be socketing for +hit and 2hander folks will be socketing for strength and/or crit.
When Druids voiced their concern about sharing Rogue gear, particularly because we don't need nowhere near as much +hit as they do, blues responded by saying that they expect things to go so that Rogues will socket for +hit while Druids will socket for AP or crit. I suspect they intend the same thing for the plate wearers: those dual-wielding asses will be socketing for +hit and 2hander folks will be socketing for strength and/or crit.
Wait, isn't that reversed? 2handers want hit, and 1h guys like tanks want str.
When Druids voiced their concern about sharing Rogue gear, particularly because we don't need nowhere near as much +hit as they do, blues responded by saying that they expect things to go so that Rogues will socket for +hit while Druids will socket for AP or crit. I suspect they intend the same thing for the plate wearers: those dual-wielding asses will be socketing for +hit and 2hander folks will be socketing for strength and/or crit.
Wait, isn't that reversed? 2handers want hit, and 1h guys like tanks want str.
No, dual wielders are the ones who need fucktons of hit. Hit rating is good for us, but probably like 1/3 or a 1/4 of what dual wielders need.
Wavechaser on
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
When Druids voiced their concern about sharing Rogue gear, particularly because we don't need nowhere near as much +hit as they do, blues responded by saying that they expect things to go so that Rogues will socket for +hit while Druids will socket for AP or crit. I suspect they intend the same thing for the plate wearers: those dual-wielding asses will be socketing for +hit and 2hander folks will be socketing for strength and/or crit.
Wait, isn't that reversed? 2handers want hit, and 1h guys like tanks want str.
You know, every time you post it's like reading the official forums.
When Druids voiced their concern about sharing Rogue gear, particularly because we don't need nowhere near as much +hit as they do, blues responded by saying that they expect things to go so that Rogues will socket for +hit while Druids will socket for AP or crit. I suspect they intend the same thing for the plate wearers: those dual-wielding asses will be socketing for +hit and 2hander folks will be socketing for strength and/or crit.
Wait, isn't that reversed? 2handers want hit, and 1h guys like tanks want str.
You know, every time you post it's like reading the official forums.
Guys using two handers don't really need to worry about hit, because we really only want to hit the cap for specials. And the +hit we'll find on gear should take care of that and then some without having to gem for it. Duel wielders (like rogues) get a lot more damage out of their white damage, which has a much higher hit cap. Also, fury warriors are currently penalised for using TG by having their hit rating lowered. (is that right? or do I not remember correctly?) Tanks, from what I understand want to get str for blocking reasons, right? But not necessarily gem for it?
Posts
that hammer moves pretty fast and is hard to see, i would prefer someting like the Judgement hammers, except three of them coming down simultaneously on top of the mobs
I was just about to say the same thing. That would be cool. But would probably cause a small lag spike if your in a big raid with alot of mobs.
Aside from the HoJ talent, there's like nothing low in the Prot tree that is attractive at all. Like, the 6% damage reduction is nice, but 9 times out of 10 it gets dispelled anyways, so what's the point?
Well, it's a 5 second stun every 20 seconds with the PvP set. So you can have someone stunned 20% of the time you fight them.
However, with 2hand spec reverted back to how it was...it's hard to go that deep anymore.
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sZ0ebGsZVfMtbfufMsMzAo
That might be my PvP spec for Wrath. We'll see.
I wish this game weren't so damn focused around CC. >.<
It really isn't with the judgement nerf and the fact that we get a significant amount of damage from our other talents. It's still a good talent for PvE for the threat reduction (and since we can't stun bosses).
At this point, the main reason why you judge in PvP is to regain mana :P
2% is pretty shit, but I guess if there's another Pally around it's better than nothing.
That's pretty much the only reason why. E4E is only useful in PvE if you have resilience. And kings at 2% is better than nothing if there is another pally in the raid with imp might.
I haven't really paid much attention to the balance of dps classes, I just tank stuff.
Unless they are fighting demons or undead.
~200 dps short? Its more like 400 dps short of other dps classes.
Its a huge margin. Last time I raided, I believe the top slot was a t4 hunter with 1200 dps, then a shadow priest with 800, then me with like 750.
Of course, in 10 man raiding, I have to purposely gimp myself in order to not go oom.
If things end up as Blizzard intends (according to Ghostcrawler), and Ret Paladins are only behind pure dps classes by about 200dps in the expansion, will that be good enough for a serious guild to include more than one in a raid?
Basically I'm not sure how much of a difference a serious guild allows for, and whether that will get Ret out of it's current "never more than one" predicament.
Assuming equal gear. If you outgear the rogue, all bets are off.
200 dps at level 80 is likely going to be nothing. If the gap were only 200 at level 70, ret pallies would be more welcome than they are.
In 25 mans where mana isn't an issue I can see paladins doing pretty well.
I haven't run one in a year, though, and probably won't be doing any in the future, not really playing wow anymore. So I can't really test my own dps.
Considering we bring more than straight DPS to a raid, and that 200 dps difference at 80 will basically be laughable considering the numbers people will be throwing around; yes, I think it's safe to say there will be plenty of spots for more than one Paladin in a raid.
Also, no, I don't see there being a point to bringing more than 1 ret paladin per raid, but I don't think this is a problem either.
Yeah, exactly, right now if you're a Blood Elf Paladin, DPS is nowhere near "horrible" and ret is most welcome in any guild.
Also, I'm thinking if you get a real good player with quality gear, they have just as much of a chance to top the dps meters as anyone else.
There is alot of hit on level 80 gear. Most of what I've seen at least. I'm thinking thats why they took it out of the talents. Because it will be common enough to not worry about.
Gotcha.
God it will be nice not having to focus on hit...
/dance
Wait, isn't that reversed? 2handers want hit, and 1h guys like tanks want str.
No, dual wielders are the ones who need fucktons of hit. Hit rating is good for us, but probably like 1/3 or a 1/4 of what dual wielders need.
You know, every time you post it's like reading the official forums.
Ouch man. That cut deep.
So I'm a dps newb. All I do is tank.
JUST MADE A TANKADIN TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!!
(which by the way is fucking dumb)