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The new guy wants brutal criticism. (NSFdialup)

2

Posts

  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Hell, I feel dirty using grids.

    Grids for drawing or grids for designing?

    Grids for drawing. Grids for design, in my opinion, are pretty necessary.

    NightDragon on
  • JohnTWMJohnTWM Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    8-)

    JohnTWM on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    When you think about it, your technically using mental grids to measure a drawing out even if its not applied on the paper night dragon so therefore you are using grids in every creation you make

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • LesterDMLesterDM Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Semantics aside, the general meaning of my posts should be fairly obvious to those who have a firm grasp of the American language and to those that do not over-think when reading informal email/forum posts. Granted, not everyone who peruse these forums are American, but the language is fairly universal on the 'interwebz'

    Back to the original topic, let me post some 'artwork' that isn't based from photos. I am not happy with these items and I know I have a lot of work to do with general anatomy and proportion and perspective/foreshortening.

    This is the scanned Pencil/Pen drawing based on some Warcraft fan art I saw.
    Pencil_pen_1_by_PCMStudio.jpg

    This is the digital reproduction.
    Digital_Drawing_test_1_by_PCMStudio.jpg


    This is a pencil doodle turned into whatever
    pencil_pen_2_by_PCMStudio.jpg

    And the digital reproduction:
    Digital_Drawing_test_2_by_PCMStudio.jpg

    and another photo reference
    Digital_Drawing_test_3_by_PCMStudio.jpg


    More Brutality!!

    LesterDM on
  • TamTam Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    What is that last one from? It reminds me of that girl from The Transporter 2.

    Tam on
  • LesterDMLesterDM Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Tam wrote: »
    What is that last one from? It reminds me of that girl from The Transporter 2.

    Honestly I have no idea... I saw some picture on Google images and based it on that.

    LesterDM on
  • PumazPumaz Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Edit: Deleted because I'm tired and it didn't make sense....

    Draw from life!

    Pumaz on
  • LesterDMLesterDM Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Pumaz wrote: »
    Edit: Deleted because I'm tired and it didn't make sense....

    Draw from life!

    Is it okay if I draw from subject matter that interests me?

    LesterDM on
  • RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited October 2008
    as long as it's from observation and not from a two-dimensional source, yeah, you'll learn tons.

    Rankenphile on
    8406wWN.png
  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    LesterDM wrote: »
    Pumaz wrote: »
    Edit: Deleted because I'm tired and it didn't make sense....

    Draw from life!

    Is it okay if I draw from subject matter that interests me?

    if it's from life. There is absolutely no better way to improve than to draw exactly what you see around you. You may hate it, but it's just part of drawing.

    Every time you post something here you've referenced, I'd like to see it. Not because I want to see if you're cheating or whatever, but because you can't criticize yourself, and it's hard to criticize a referenced piece without being able to see the reference being used.

    Zombiemambo on
    JKKaAGp.png
  • bombardierbombardier Moderator mod
    edited October 2008
    I didn't know American was a language.

    bombardier on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    bombardier wrote: »
    I didn't know American was a language.
    dats cauz ur a stupd dum dum hed

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • MustangMustang Arbiter of Unpopular Opinions Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Well they certainly don't speak english with their Honor's and.....other words that are spelt incorrectly that I can't think of right now. Curse my feeble mind.

    Mustang on
  • TamTam Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Mustang wrote: »
    Well they certainly don't speak english with their Honor's and.....other words that are spelt incorrectly that I can't think of right now. Curse my feeble mind.

    I put it to you that you use superfluous letters in such words.

    Tam on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User regular
    edited October 2008

    if it's from life. There is absolutely no better way to improve than to draw exactly what you see around you. You may hate it, but it's just part of drawing.

    Every time you post something here you've referenced, I'd like to see it. Not because I want to see if you're cheating or whatever, but because you can't criticize yourself, and it's hard to criticize a referenced piece without being able to see the reference being used.

    This is false I criticize myself all the time I sometimes even start slapping myself when i'm not drawing and i'm sitting at the computer trolling this forum.

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • JohnTWMJohnTWM Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Mustang wrote: »
    Well they certainly don't speak english with their Honor's and.....other words that are spelt incorrectly that I can't think of right now. Curse my feeble mind.

    Colour (color)... damn, I had thought of a few more and suddenly brain fart.:x

    JohnTWM on
  • MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    bombardier wrote: »
    I didn't know American was a language.

    I was gonna say something about this... it was driving me nuts! Central and South America don't really speak English, they're Americans too, right?

    MagicToaster on
  • ManonvonSuperockManonvonSuperock Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    practise/practice, realise/realize, theatre/theater, grey/gray

    are a few that come to mind

    ManonvonSuperock on
  • winter_combat_knightwinter_combat_knight Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    color/colour
    plaigarize/plaigarise

    z's/s's

    winter_combat_knight on
  • LesterDMLesterDM Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    if it's from life. There is absolutely no better way to improve than to draw exactly what you see around you. You may hate it, but it's just part of drawing.

    Every time you post something here you've referenced, I'd like to see it. Not because I want to see if you're cheating or whatever, but because you can't criticize yourself, and it's hard to criticize a referenced piece without being able to see the reference being used.

    I'll do what I can, thanks. I will continue to do what I do and when I find that I need/want more critique on how to improve... I'll post. The topic has changed much; the passive aggressive response to my passive aggressive rebuttal... my mistake, I guess I hoped that there was something different about this forum vs. ANY other forum. (I capitalized, instead of italicized there for emphasis, I hope that is obvious)

    Where should the inane argument about people in Canada and Mexico/South America being called Americans, and hence speaking the language that is based off of the English language yet is obviously NOT English as it were, be posted?

    Can we redirect it to that forum, or will this post just serve as fuel for more flaming from those that posses an obvious lack of comprehension and just argue for the sake of argument? I think it was Gabe that said... Complete anonymity + Internet audience = Complete jerkwad. (Or something like that) Brilliant!

    LesterDM on
  • TamTam Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Loomdun wrote: »

    if it's from life. There is absolutely no better way to improve than to draw exactly what you see around you. You may hate it, but it's just part of drawing.

    Every time you post something here you've referenced, I'd like to see it. Not because I want to see if you're cheating or whatever, but because you can't criticize yourself, and it's hard to criticize a referenced piece without being able to see the reference being used.

    This is false I criticize myself all the time I sometimes even start slapping myself when i'm not drawing and i'm sitting at the computer trolling this forum.

    Loomdun, is your favorite author William Faulkner?

    Tam on
  • MustangMustang Arbiter of Unpopular Opinions Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    It was dickwad, but I honestly don't think anyone was being a dickwad here.

    Mustang on
  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    LesterDM wrote: »
    if it's from life. There is absolutely no better way to improve than to draw exactly what you see around you. You may hate it, but it's just part of drawing.

    Every time you post something here you've referenced, I'd like to see it. Not because I want to see if you're cheating or whatever, but because you can't criticize yourself, and it's hard to criticize a referenced piece without being able to see the reference being used.

    I'll do what I can, thanks. I will continue to do what I do and when I find that I need/want more critique on how to improve... I'll post. The topic has changed much; the passive aggressive response to my passive aggressive rebuttal... my mistake, I guess I hoped that there was something different about this forum vs. ANY other forum. (I capitalized, instead of italicized there for emphasis, I hope that is obvious)

    Where should the inane argument about people in Canada and Mexico/South America being called Americans, and hence speaking the language that is based off of the English language yet is obviously NOT English as it were, be posted?

    Can we redirect it to that forum, or will this post just serve as fuel for more flaming from those that posses an obvious lack of comprehension and just argue for the sake of argument? I think it was Gabe that said... Complete anonymity + Internet audience = Complete jerkwad. (Or something like that) Brilliant!

    crying_baby.jpg

    Seriously. I have no idea where you're getting the idea that anybody is being a jerkwad (or dickwad). You asked for brutal criticism! What were you expecting? Even still, I don't really consider any of the critiques you got to be "brutal". We're giving you advice on how to improve your art, and I feel like Zombie's suggestions were great ones. Seeing the references can help people explain problems they see in your art - problems that may be recurring. This allows everybody to help you to a further degree. I'm not sure what you're getting in a fuss for.

    ...and the "topic" hasn't changed so much that you can't post more art.

    ...or your references!

    Looking at what you've posted so far, I'd suggest you practice working on your anatomy a bit. The Questions thread has a few good links on that kind of stuff. I'd suggest you check out Loomis - he's got some great material.

    NightDragon on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Tam wrote: »
    Loomdun, is your favorite author William Faulkner?

    I don't know who that is

    if you realllllly want "brutal" criticism op then that is what you'll get.

    Your work is complete crap. It's obvious that you have no idea of the internal system at all or even muscle structure. Your capability to define shade and lines is very thin and very amateur. Probably the only reason why your things have some what semblace of human form is because you take pictures and works of other people and do something the equal to a crayon and scribble color on it. In fact most of these tracings you did made them worst then the original and deformed the figure even more. You can't correct something that feels off in a already fairly successful peice of work because you don't understand how to analyze a work.

    I strongly recommend you stop posting more of this crap because you won't be improving any time soon and start drawing in real life not this ____ your doing over photoshop and learn what its like to gasp, do physical art. Maybe then your stuff wont look like complete garbage and then you can start making all the lousy hentai you want that makes me cringe whether it looks good or bad.

    So honestly theres nothing else for anyone to say your current position is crap you wanted pats and you asked for brutal start practicing and come back when you understand how to draw a straight line

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • NightDragonNightDragon 6th Grade Username Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Loomdun wrote: »
    Tam wrote: »
    Loomdun, is your favorite author William Faulkner?

    I don't know who that is

    if you realllllly want "brutal" criticism op then that is what you'll get.

    Your work is complete crap. It's obvious that you have no idea of the internal system at all or even muscle structure. Your capability to define shade and lines is very thin and very amateur. Probably the only reason why your things have some what semblace of human form is because you take pictures and works of other people and do something the equal to a crayon and scribble color on it. In fact most of these tracings you did made them worst then the original and deformed the figure even more. You can't correct something that feels off in a already fairly successful peice of work because you don't understand how to analyze a work.

    I strongly recommend you stop posting more of this crap because you won't be improving any time soon and start drawing in real life not this ____ your doing over photoshop and learn what its like to gasp, do physical art. Maybe then your stuff wont look like complete garbage and then you can start making all the lousy hentai you want that makes me cringe whether it looks good or bad.

    So honestly theres nothing else for anyone to say your current position is crap you wanted pats and you asked for brutal start practicing and come back when you understand how to draw a straight line

    .............

    .............

    .............well, shit!

    Nobody was a dickwad until Loomdun posted.

    NightDragon on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Rrararargrgghghghgh burn in hell

    Seriously, he asked for brutal criticism and to the point he is there isn't really much to be brutal about except that he dosn't even apparently know how to draw a straight line. When I first started practicing art I didn't know anyone and the people who I where around said I was terrible and they where about in his situation in skill level and yes I was terrible but it was my first weeks ever of drawing they obviously had low esteem.

    So it annoys me when I have to listen to people like that who can't even get a clue and practice they arn't in a point where they need criticism when they cant even hold a actual pencil.

    Although then again if the people around me wherent so violent and mean I wouldn't have built enough hatred for them to devote every single hour to practice art away from everyone. Oh well it has its trade offs they lost there "inspiration" for art and I moved on to art in college sweet irony

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • nakirushnakirush Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    ::grabs popcorn and settles in for the show::

    nakirush on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    what show theres nothing else left to say he can throw whatever mood swing he wants at this if he cant take the facts then that will be everyone elses job to laugh not mine

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • RCagentRCagent Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    I have to kind of agree. Your style when it comes to stuff that is reality photo referenced just look bad and dull. It's just they don't have any depth or detail in them to make them interesting. All I see is pretty much a photo that's been colored with less than 10 colors.

    This type of style can be visually effective, case in point Grand Theft Auto's concept art, but take notice:
    250px-Riding_shotgun.jpg

    The art that is made is referenced by a photograph but is modified from the original. This can be anything from lighting to color or other details. Now, if this same picture was done in your "style" it would more than likely be completely flat shaded and look uninteresting. Add some shading, exaggeration, something. People aren't going to be impressed or interested in something that looks like something they'd see in the real world only with 3 colors.

    RCagent on
  • RCagentRCagent Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Here's something I worked on for a short amount of time.

    Your Reference Shot:
    l_b7889ea2c790293e4cba2f01f79c6955.jpg

    Your Work (Yours):
    Charactoons12_by_PCMStudio.jpg

    My attempt:
    2jaxg6a.jpg

    Now, mine isn't the best thing in the world (pretty sloppy due to quickness) but you can sort of get the idea.

    Of course I'm more into drawing without a too realistic reference photo.

    RCagent on
  • bombardierbombardier Moderator mod
    edited October 2008
    LesterDM wrote: »
    Where should the inane argument about people in Canada and Mexico/South America being called Americans, and hence speaking the language that is based off of the English language yet is obviously NOT English as it were, be posted?

    Can we redirect it to that forum, or will this post just serve as fuel for more flaming from those that posses an obvious lack of comprehension and just argue for the sake of argument? I think it was Gabe that said... Complete anonymity + Internet audience = Complete jerkwad. (Or something like that) Brilliant!

    If you had said you speak 'American' to me in person I still would have laughed in your face.

    bombardier on
  • LesterDMLesterDM Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Loomdun wrote: »
    Tam wrote: »
    Loomdun, is your favorite author William Faulkner?

    I don't know who that is

    if you realllllly want "brutal" criticism op then that is what you'll get.

    Your work is complete crap. It's obvious that you have no idea of the internal system at all or even muscle structure. Your capability to define shade and lines is very thin and very amateur. Probably the only reason why your things have some what semblace of human form is because you take pictures and works of other people and do something the equal to a crayon and scribble color on it. In fact most of these tracings you did made them worst then the original and deformed the figure even more. You can't correct something that feels off in a already fairly successful peice of work because you don't understand how to analyze a work.

    I strongly recommend you stop posting more of this crap because you won't be improving any time soon and start drawing in real life not this ____ your doing over photoshop and learn what its like to gasp, do physical art. Maybe then your stuff wont look like complete garbage and then you can start making all the lousy hentai you want that makes me cringe whether it looks good or bad.

    So honestly theres nothing else for anyone to say your current position is crap you wanted pats and you asked for brutal start practicing and come back when you understand how to draw a straight line

    This is what I consider brutal, thanks. It's crap to the experts. I don't imagine anything can improve without practice, and at no point did I say I wanted 'pats' from this crowd...

    The off topic and 'jerkwad' reference was made to whoever decided that this post was about anything other than art. I have always considered it pretentious to attempt the correction of someones language, spoken or printed, when the meaning is clear. The criticism about my 'crap' pictures is exactly what I wanted. The criticism about my choice of verbiage and the resulting jerkwad comments were uncalled for. If this were a creative writing or a grammar and style forum... I would imagine the level of pretentiousness would skyrocket.

    I'll post again at some point in the future when and if I ever feel that I have improved.

    Loomdun, you have been the most helpful. Seriously.

    LesterDM on
  • MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    LesterDM wrote: »
    Where should the inane argument about people in Canada and Mexico/South America being called Americans, and hence speaking the language that is based off of the English language yet is obviously NOT English as it were, be posted?

    French and Spanish are based on English? That's news to me! I could have sworn they had their roots in Latin!

    MagicToaster on
  • JohnTWMJohnTWM Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    LesterDM wrote: »
    Where should the inane argument about people in Canada and Mexico/South America being called Americans, and hence speaking the language that is based off of the English language yet is obviously NOT English as it were, be posted?

    French and Spanish are based on English? That's news to me! I could have sworn they had their roots in Latin!

    No, I think it's pretty clear that that is not what he meant. When he said, "American", I think it was pretty clear what he meant, and that is the American variant of the English language which IS distinctly different from English english, in spelling and pronunciation (and probably some sentance structure but I would have to think about it too hard). While I agree that it would appear he just traced some photos and doctored them in photoshop, loomdun took the correct course and criticized that, not his choice of words.

    JohnTWM on
  • MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    No, there is no American English... there is U.S. English... but no American English.

    my.php?image=englishsr7.gif

    MagicToaster on
  • MonniMonni Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    Belruel wrote: »
    the problem is that you didn't "base" it on a picture, it was just traced

    tracefk6.jpg

    Did you people miss this? It's impossible to give criticisms on these pieces because he hasn't done anything. Only advice that can be given to him is STOP TRACING, START DRAWING.

    Monni on
  • LoomdunLoomdun Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    LesterDM wrote: »
    This is what I consider brutal, thanks. It's crap to the experts. I don't imagine anything can improve without practice, and at no point did I say I wanted 'pats' from this crowd...

    The off topic and 'jerkwad' reference was made to whoever decided that this post was about anything other than art. I have always considered it pretentious to attempt the correction of someones language, spoken or printed, when the meaning is clear. The criticism about my 'crap' pictures is exactly what I wanted. The criticism about my choice of verbiage and the resulting jerkwad comments were uncalled for. If this were a creative writing or a grammar and style forum... I would imagine the level of pretentiousness would skyrocket.

    I'll post again at some point in the future when and if I ever feel that I have improved.

    Loomdun, you have been the most helpful. Seriously.

    Then why are you still posting when you should be drawing <.@ shooooooooooooooo

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • LesterDMLesterDM Registered User regular
    edited October 2008
    They don't like it when I draw at work... especially when it's not related to the requests from HR and Marketing.


    I dug up all my old sketchbooks and about 20 pencils of varying size and hardness. Draw from life you say... Draw what you see you say...

    I'm all over it.


    Are the books you can get on 'drawing dynamic anatomy' useful at all?

    LesterDM on
  • NakedZerglingNakedZergling A more apocalyptic post apocalypse Portland OregonRegistered User regular
    edited October 2008
    you should read betty edwards' drawing on the right side of the brain before anything

    NakedZergling on
  • RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited October 2008
    you should read betty edwards' drawing on the right side of the brain before anything
    And Brian Curtis' Drawing From Observation

    Edwards' book is fantastic, and Curtis' book covers a lot of the same ground but tends to go into more detail on a lot of practical items and includes a lot more detail about a number of things. It also has a lot more exercises to do, with lots of reference images to compare your work to once you've completed it.

    Also, dude - do yourself a favor and stop tracing. Not trying to be a dick here, but there is very, very little you can learn from that sort of work. Understand the fundamentals of drawing, then once you're on a solid foundation you can come back and do vector portraits and all that fun stuff and have a much stronger result. Right now you're trying to fly before you can walk. Trust me, I'm a student who used to think he could draw, and now I'm learning better.

    Rankenphile on
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