Well, it depends what you like more in an RPG. You like RPGs for their story? Pick up Abyss. Think gameplay is more important? Start up Vesperia.
Abyss suffers from some ridiculous repeating, and underlining of plot elements. When characters are talking twentieth time how this technology is sooo morally wrong, I started to skip dialogue. And loading is pain in the ass, even with using HDLoader.
The only bad loading times were after a battle on the World Map. It's why they made Holy Bottles, you know.
And besides, Van was 10 times the villain Duke ever could be.
Anyway, I never really had an issue with the load times in Abyss. I guess I've built up a tolerance for load times as an RPG enthusiast over the years. What annoyed me was the ungodly choppy camera rotate on the world map.
From breezing over the comments, they don't sound like especially good players and probably weren't too good at completely locking down bosses. There's no way I'm watching that to nitpick through things though.
I looked into it once. From memory, the top speedruns were ~6 hours.
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
edited October 2008
Man, speedrunning an RPG sounds like torture to me.
Man, speedrunning an RPG sounds like torture to me.
I wouldn't think so unless you're trying for a TAS. You don't lose -that- much experience since you're still gaining off of bosses so it's usually just a matter of getting far enough to use whatever the unintended game breaking glitches/items are and/or turn your party into complete glass cannons and just hope you get lucky. I'm sure the older ones/things with random battles are rougher, but more recent stuff... not so much.
The Tales series shouldn't be bad at all though because with two people, you can just totally lock down enemies. Symphonia especially since Colette could easily solo every boss after a certain point since nothing's strong against poison. It'd take some setup to activate it, but Pow Hammer's cheap, and if they're using 4 people, they should easily be able to hit the requirement in order to make the last 15-20 or so bosses a cake walk.
I ended up getting Abyss from goozex today so that fixed my dilemma of wondering which to play first.
Question: Normal or Hard? I like hard games but ask in case this game employs a more frustrating-than-fun type of hard (being at the mercy of the RNG, just giving everything 10x HP and making it tedious and not hard, etc).
I ended up getting Abyss from goozex today so that fixed my dilemma of wondering which to play first.
Question: Normal or Hard? I like hard games but ask in case this game employs a more frustrating-than-fun type of hard (being at the mercy of the RNG, just giving everything 10x HP and making it tedious and not hard, etc).
You can change the difficulty at any time, so put it on whichever to start and then adjust as needed.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited November 2008
I'll actually say Abyss's hard mode is more fun than frustrating. The enemies have more HP but it isn't to the tedious levels they have it in Vesperia(though I think that was to get you to use Fatal Strikes more, but whatever).
I played my first run on Abyss on hard through the later 2/3s of the game(you get one of Luke's costumes for fighting I think 500-1000 battles in hard...can't remember but that's why I started early) and never was bothered by it too much.
I'll actually say Abyss's hard mode is more fun than frustrating. The enemies have more HP but it isn't to the tedious levels they have it in Vesperia(though I think that was to get you to use Fatal Strikes more, but whatever).
I played my first run on Abyss on hard through the later 2/3s of the game(you get one of Luke's costumes for fighting I think 500-1000 battles in hard...can't remember but that's why I started early) and never was bothered by it too much.
Meh. Depends on the boss really. By the end of the game, you probably have enough spells, equipment, AD Skills and shit to keep you in relatively decent shape. In the early game, Arietta and her two monsters are nasty as hell, and Legretta can one shot your entire party with her basic attacks once she shifts into 'serious' mode, to say nothing of the party's stupidity of standing in the middle of her slow-ass spells. I'm playing through it now on Hard and while it is a New Game+, the only battle stuff I carried over were FSCs, CCs and cash. It's... often not amusing. Especially since they think nothing of using their Mystic Artes on your poor level 15 party.
This game is great. So great. Oh so very, very great.
(Part 2 spoilers)
Holy shit Raven-as-Schwann was great. Really loved the atmosphere of that fight, and his "sacrifice" was excellently well done (could've lived without the "Heh, I'm getting soft in my old age" line because it's so cliché and because he's only 35).
Also, that was a good subversion with the princess-kidnapping cliché. Instead of just trying to lure the hero or whatever, dude's using her as a weapon of mass destruction and could give less of a flying fuck about your party.
Then the whole party just laying it on on Raven was hilarious.
God, I hope I get my full team and Ba'ul back before concluding the final part so I can get some more sidequests done in. I understand I can't get Raven's Schwann costume if I don't speak to Kaufman before going to Zaude, and that suit is badass
Plus that fight with Estelle was done expertly. Loved the music, the atmosphere, and the voice acting. So cheesy but so delicious.
IGN review of Symphonia 2 is out: http://wii.ign.com/articles/928/928479p1.html
It's more of a rant than an actual review, but I guess it really just reinforces the fact that this game really could have been a lot better.
So has anyone actually bought the new Symphonia game?
I'm curious to hear impressions.
I have; playing it now.
What were your concerns?
DeaconKnowledge on
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So has anyone actually bought the new Symphonia game?
I'm curious to hear impressions.
I have; playing it now.
What were your concerns?
Mostly just the whole pokemon-esque aspect of raising monsters in your party, and I suppose overall impressions on the quality of the game, especially compared to the original Symphonia.
If Emil's voice is really as terrible as what I originally heard in a video of an early part of the game, and whether the "other" Emil's voice is any better.
Barrakketh on
Rollers are red, chargers are blue....omae wa mou shindeiru
So has anyone actually bought the new Symphonia game?
I'm curious to hear impressions.
I have; playing it now.
What were your concerns?
Mostly just the whole pokemon-esque aspect of raising monsters in your party, and I suppose overall impressions on the quality of the game, especially compared to the original Symphonia.
EDIT: Oh, and if the motion controls are good/bad
Well let's see:
I think the first thing to get out of the way is that the map is largely like Symphonia. I've been playing for roughly 5 hours, and I've been to at least four locations directly ripped from Symphonia. The characters also constantly make reference to the game so if you haven't played it, you may get a little lost story-wise. There are some things they explain, and others they leave in the air. I keep trying to look at the game as if I haven't played Symphonia, but when characters talk I find myself saying "oh yeah, I remember that part".
The character system is really quite interesting. The party generally consists of Emil, Marta, and whatever Monsters join along the way, with the occasional Symphonia cameo (I've only had one so far, but I understand there are others.) I thought at first the monster thing was going to be a "join and grind" affair, and in some cases it is, but each monster has its own skills and Aura attacks that it can learn, and your attacks fuse based on type. They can also evolve, but so far it's just been a stat boost the an odd change in color. Hopefully later monsters actually change form as well.
As for Emil and Marta themselves, well, I find their relationship very cute, but I could see how it could get very annoying. Emil is a WIMP with two capital W's. He's the epitome of the reluctant hero you see in most JRPGs. He's hesitant at every turn, and while he obviously sacks up when he has to, chances are you'll find yourself rolling your eyes a few times at how spineless he is, especially at the start of the game.
Marta, is very assertive by contrast, but she very openly loves Emil. I won't go into too much detail, but let's just say this is nothing like the Lloyd/Collete relationship from Symphonia one. Marta leaves nothing to subtext.
As for the quality of the game itself, i'm finding it hard to find much of a difference between this and the lauded Team Symphonia original, shy of them obviously reusing assets from the first game and Abyss. All the characters talk (voice) incessantly, even in the talking head cutscenes, The graphics looks better than they did with the original (IMO) and the structure of the game, shy of the point/click overworld, is exactly the same. There are differences: the game is REALLY long winded at the start, I was playing for 30 minutes before my first battle, loading times are noticeable (but not too bad), and the Strat system isn't as robust as I remember it (for example, you can't set a character to focus on healing/magic use as far as i've seen, while i'm pretty sure you could do that in Symphonia.) Otherwise, the battle system is essentially the same. There is very little waggling/pointing, so don't worry about it being shoehorned in.
TL;DR, If you liked Symphonia, I don't see you not liking this.
DeaconKnowledge on
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JeanHeartbroken papa bearGatineau, QuébecRegistered Userregular
edited November 2008
I have ToS 2. Here's my impressions so far.
Positive
- Skits are very funny. I actually laughed out loud on many occasions.
- Battle system is as fun as ever
- Good caracthers for the most part. I especially like Martha, Tenebrae and Richter.
- For a Wii game, nice graphics
- No time wasted travelling the world map
- Nice monster system
Negative
- Normal Emil is annoying. Ratatosk Emil is a fucking douchebag. He makes me think of Ash from ToA and thats NOT a good thing. Seriously I just want to punch the guy.
- Way too many recycled dungeons from the original game
- Too many unavoidable encounters
- The Symphonia cast feels more like guests than actual members of the team.
So, in short I find it to be very far from perfect, but still a good game worth playing.
O and they're is barely any motion control at all in the game. The Sorcerer Ring use the pointer and the fishing minigame use some minimal waggle... that's pretty much it so far.
Jean on
"You won't destroy us, You won't destroy our democracy. We are a small but proud nation. No one can bomb us to silence. No one can scare us from being Norway. This evening and tonight, we'll take care of each other. That's what we do best when attacked'' - Jens Stoltenberg
If Emil's voice is really as terrible as what I originally heard in a video of an early part of the game, and whether the "other" Emil's voice is any better.
I find that he sounds like Michael Cera.
DeaconKnowledge on
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It's difficult at times (I'm playing on hard). Plan poorly before and in battle and you WILL be killed, so it's not just whacking away to the next story point, which I found Symphonia to do a little too much.
DeaconKnowledge on
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Good to hear that it's not as bad as some reviews made it sound. I'd pick it up soon but I've already spent enough on games this month.
I'm in no hurry though, I can replay Abyss and Vesperia in the meantime for my Tales fix and hopefully by the time I get around to Symphonia 2 it'll be a bit cheaper hopefully.
Slicer on
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JeanHeartbroken papa bearGatineau, QuébecRegistered Userregular
It's difficult at times (I'm playing on hard). Plan poorly before and in battle and you WILL be killed, so it's not just whacking away to the next story point, which I found Symphonia to do a little too much.
Yeah a few boss battles are quite hard. I only died twice so far tough and I'm in chapter 6, altough I'm playing on normal.
Jean on
"You won't destroy us, You won't destroy our democracy. We are a small but proud nation. No one can bomb us to silence. No one can scare us from being Norway. This evening and tonight, we'll take care of each other. That's what we do best when attacked'' - Jens Stoltenberg
O and they're is barely any motion control at all in the game. The Sorcerer Ring use the pointer and the fishing minigame use some minimal waggle... that's pretty much it so far.
Isn't there in-combat waggle to order teammates to perform an attack? I think I remember an interview saying they bumped up the number of commands to 8 (there were 4 in the Japanese version).
If Emil's voice is really as terrible as what I originally heard in a video of an early part of the game, and whether the "other" Emil's voice is any better.
I find that he sounds like Michael Cera.
Never heard of him. Wikipedia says that Emil's VA is Johnny Yong Bosh, and since I don't watch the Bleach dub I need to dig up some Ichigo/Hollow Ichigo clips on Youtube :P The little bit I saw was Emil being a whiny bitch that I believe:
was around the time he first saw Marta...Richter was with him and it seemed like he might attack her.
Barrakketh on
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
edited November 2008
So the major criticisms of ToS2 is... Emil sucks real bad, the story is messed up, and it's not much different from ToS?
AbsoluteZero on
0
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited November 2008
I also hear the voice acting for the returning characters from Symphonia is terrible.
So the major criticisms of ToS2 is... Emil sucks real bad, the story is messed up, and it's not much different from ToS?
I wouldnt say the story is that bad, altough it's by no mean brilliant. The story is average I'd say, but most of the caracthers are pretty good.
But yeah, the first and last criticism are definitively my biggest pet peeves with the game.
Jean on
"You won't destroy us, You won't destroy our democracy. We are a small but proud nation. No one can bomb us to silence. No one can scare us from being Norway. This evening and tonight, we'll take care of each other. That's what we do best when attacked'' - Jens Stoltenberg
So because I didn't talk to a girl tending a garden in some town I probably spent all but 15 minutes in it I can't get Judith's best weapon hooray!!
Fuck you, game. At least remove the cutscenes that make it seem like I might get that stupid fucking spear instead of getting my hopes up.
Also, Fel Arm question:
I understand the final two fell arms are in Tarqaron before fighting Duke. Do I have to run all the way out of Tarqaron then back to Aurnion to talk with Flynn to trigger the special fight or can I just waltz in and beat Duke's ass?
Also, I read one of Estelle's and one of Rita's costumes are tied to their healing/damage totals, but is some ridiculous number (in the high millions).
If I were to start an Ex New Game, would that information carry over or would I have to start all over again?
So because I didn't talk to a girl tending a garden in some town I probably spent all but 15 minutes in it I can't get Judith's best weapon hooray!!
Fuck you, game. At least remove the cutscenes that make it seem like I might get that stupid fucking spear instead of getting my hopes up.
Welcome to every single Tales game. Abyss probably had the single most egregious abuse. If you didn't blow off Asch and skip the dungeon three feet away from the town you just left to sail around the continent... oopsies! You just missed two of Natalia's techs and her Mystic Arte is effectively pushed back five levels behind when everybody else gets theirs.
So because I didn't talk to a girl tending a garden in some town I probably spent all but 15 minutes in it I can't get Judith's best weapon hooray!!
Fuck you, game. At least remove the cutscenes that make it seem like I might get that stupid fucking spear instead of getting my hopes up.
Also, Fel Arm question:
I understand the final two fell arms are in Tarqaron before fighting Duke. Do I have to run all the way out of Tarqaron then back to Aurnion to talk with Flynn to trigger the special fight or can I just waltz in and beat Duke's ass?
Also, I read one of Estelle's and one of Rita's costumes are tied to their healing/damage totals, but is some ridiculous number (in the high millions).
If I were to start an Ex New Game, would that information carry over or would I have to start all over again?
Judith's spear is probably the most convoluted quest in the game.
As to your spoiler question: after going through the area that you find them in, you'll be right back at the entrance anyway. I do believe you have to get the scene in Aurnion, but I'm not 100%.
Are any of the Guild quest missable? Because now I hear they net you Rita's best chain and Karol's best sword, and I'll be FUCKED if I miss another weapon.
Are any of the Guild quest missable? Because now I hear they net you Rita's best chain and Karol's best sword, and I'll be FUCKED if I miss another weapon.
I tried going to where an FAQ said the chain started and wasn't able to do it.
Though what really pissed me off was finding out that because I didn't talk to a guy in the middle of the game, I wasn't able to access the secret dungeon at the end.
For Christmas I'm picking up Abyss and considering Vesperia.
I'm torn between it and Saint's Row 2, but to be honest I'm leaning towards ToV if only because I'm also getting Fallout 3 and need to strike some sort of balance between gritty realism and brightly colored anime horsepucky.
Never heard of him. Wikipedia says that Emil's VA is Johnny Yong Bosh, and since I don't watch the Bleach dub I need to dig up some Ichigo/Hollow Ichigo clips on Youtube :P
Posts
The only bad loading times were after a battle on the World Map. It's why they made Holy Bottles, you know.
NNID: Glenn565
Anyway, I never really had an issue with the load times in Abyss. I guess I've built up a tolerance for load times as an RPG enthusiast over the years. What annoyed me was the ungodly choppy camera rotate on the world map.
I looked into it once. From memory, the top speedruns were ~6 hours.
I wouldn't think so unless you're trying for a TAS. You don't lose -that- much experience since you're still gaining off of bosses so it's usually just a matter of getting far enough to use whatever the unintended game breaking glitches/items are and/or turn your party into complete glass cannons and just hope you get lucky. I'm sure the older ones/things with random battles are rougher, but more recent stuff... not so much.
The Tales series shouldn't be bad at all though because with two people, you can just totally lock down enemies. Symphonia especially since Colette could easily solo every boss after a certain point since nothing's strong against poison. It'd take some setup to activate it, but Pow Hammer's cheap, and if they're using 4 people, they should easily be able to hit the requirement in order to make the last 15-20 or so bosses a cake walk.
Other RPGs are even quite SR-friendly. Chrono Cross, for example, where the lion's share of your character advancement comes from boss fights.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Question: Normal or Hard? I like hard games but ask in case this game employs a more frustrating-than-fun type of hard (being at the mercy of the RNG, just giving everything 10x HP and making it tedious and not hard, etc).
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
I played my first run on Abyss on hard through the later 2/3s of the game(you get one of Luke's costumes for fighting I think 500-1000 battles in hard...can't remember but that's why I started early) and never was bothered by it too much.
Meh. Depends on the boss really. By the end of the game, you probably have enough spells, equipment, AD Skills and shit to keep you in relatively decent shape. In the early game, Arietta and her two monsters are nasty as hell, and Legretta can one shot your entire party with her basic attacks once she shifts into 'serious' mode, to say nothing of the party's stupidity of standing in the middle of her slow-ass spells. I'm playing through it now on Hard and while it is a New Game+, the only battle stuff I carried over were FSCs, CCs and cash. It's... often not amusing. Especially since they think nothing of using their Mystic Artes on your poor level 15 party.
(Part 2 spoilers)
Also, that was a good subversion with the princess-kidnapping cliché. Instead of just trying to lure the hero or whatever, dude's using her as a weapon of mass destruction and could give less of a flying fuck about your party.
Then the whole party just laying it on on Raven was hilarious.
God, I hope I get my full team and Ba'ul back before concluding the final part so I can get some more sidequests done in. I understand I can't get Raven's Schwann costume if I don't speak to Kaufman before going to Zaude, and that suit is badass
Plus that fight with Estelle was done expertly. Loved the music, the atmosphere, and the voice acting. So cheesy but so delicious.
http://wii.ign.com/articles/928/928479p1.html
It's more of a rant than an actual review, but I guess it really just reinforces the fact that this game really could have been a lot better.
I'm curious to hear impressions.
I have; playing it now.
What were your concerns?
Animal Crossing - 3566 5318 4585/2492 7891 0383 Deacon/Akisha in Crayon
Mostly just the whole pokemon-esque aspect of raising monsters in your party, and I suppose overall impressions on the quality of the game, especially compared to the original Symphonia.
EDIT: Oh, and if the motion controls are good/bad
Well let's see:
I think the first thing to get out of the way is that the map is largely like Symphonia. I've been playing for roughly 5 hours, and I've been to at least four locations directly ripped from Symphonia. The characters also constantly make reference to the game so if you haven't played it, you may get a little lost story-wise. There are some things they explain, and others they leave in the air. I keep trying to look at the game as if I haven't played Symphonia, but when characters talk I find myself saying "oh yeah, I remember that part".
The character system is really quite interesting. The party generally consists of Emil, Marta, and whatever Monsters join along the way, with the occasional Symphonia cameo (I've only had one so far, but I understand there are others.) I thought at first the monster thing was going to be a "join and grind" affair, and in some cases it is, but each monster has its own skills and Aura attacks that it can learn, and your attacks fuse based on type. They can also evolve, but so far it's just been a stat boost the an odd change in color. Hopefully later monsters actually change form as well.
As for Emil and Marta themselves, well, I find their relationship very cute, but I could see how it could get very annoying. Emil is a WIMP with two capital W's. He's the epitome of the reluctant hero you see in most JRPGs. He's hesitant at every turn, and while he obviously sacks up when he has to, chances are you'll find yourself rolling your eyes a few times at how spineless he is, especially at the start of the game.
Marta, is very assertive by contrast, but she very openly loves Emil. I won't go into too much detail, but let's just say this is nothing like the Lloyd/Collete relationship from Symphonia one. Marta leaves nothing to subtext.
As for the quality of the game itself, i'm finding it hard to find much of a difference between this and the lauded Team Symphonia original, shy of them obviously reusing assets from the first game and Abyss. All the characters talk (voice) incessantly, even in the talking head cutscenes, The graphics looks better than they did with the original (IMO) and the structure of the game, shy of the point/click overworld, is exactly the same. There are differences: the game is REALLY long winded at the start, I was playing for 30 minutes before my first battle, loading times are noticeable (but not too bad), and the Strat system isn't as robust as I remember it (for example, you can't set a character to focus on healing/magic use as far as i've seen, while i'm pretty sure you could do that in Symphonia.) Otherwise, the battle system is essentially the same. There is very little waggling/pointing, so don't worry about it being shoehorned in.
TL;DR, If you liked Symphonia, I don't see you not liking this.
Animal Crossing - 3566 5318 4585/2492 7891 0383 Deacon/Akisha in Crayon
Positive
- Skits are very funny. I actually laughed out loud on many occasions.
- Battle system is as fun as ever
- Good caracthers for the most part. I especially like Martha, Tenebrae and Richter.
- For a Wii game, nice graphics
- No time wasted travelling the world map
- Nice monster system
Negative
- Normal Emil is annoying. Ratatosk Emil is a fucking douchebag. He makes me think of Ash from ToA and thats NOT a good thing. Seriously I just want to punch the guy.
- Way too many recycled dungeons from the original game
- Too many unavoidable encounters
- The Symphonia cast feels more like guests than actual members of the team.
So, in short I find it to be very far from perfect, but still a good game worth playing.
O and they're is barely any motion control at all in the game. The Sorcerer Ring use the pointer and the fishing minigame use some minimal waggle... that's pretty much it so far.
I find that he sounds like Michael Cera.
Animal Crossing - 3566 5318 4585/2492 7891 0383 Deacon/Akisha in Crayon
It's difficult at times (I'm playing on hard). Plan poorly before and in battle and you WILL be killed, so it's not just whacking away to the next story point, which I found Symphonia to do a little too much.
Animal Crossing - 3566 5318 4585/2492 7891 0383 Deacon/Akisha in Crayon
I'm in no hurry though, I can replay Abyss and Vesperia in the meantime for my Tales fix and hopefully by the time I get around to Symphonia 2 it'll be a bit cheaper hopefully.
Yeah a few boss battles are quite hard. I only died twice so far tough and I'm in chapter 6, altough I'm playing on normal.
Never heard of him. Wikipedia says that Emil's VA is Johnny Yong Bosh, and since I don't watch the Bleach dub I need to dig up some Ichigo/Hollow Ichigo clips on Youtube :P The little bit I saw was Emil being a whiny bitch that I believe:
It was...quite the departure from his original English voice actor, to say the least.
I wouldnt say the story is that bad, altough it's by no mean brilliant. The story is average I'd say, but most of the caracthers are pretty good.
But yeah, the first and last criticism are definitively my biggest pet peeves with the game.
Fuck you, game. At least remove the cutscenes that make it seem like I might get that stupid fucking spear instead of getting my hopes up.
Also, Fel Arm question:
Also, I read one of Estelle's and one of Rita's costumes are tied to their healing/damage totals, but is some ridiculous number (in the high millions).
If I were to start an Ex New Game, would that information carry over or would I have to start all over again?
Welcome to every single Tales game. Abyss probably had the single most egregious abuse. If you didn't blow off Asch and skip the dungeon three feet away from the town you just left to sail around the continent... oopsies! You just missed two of Natalia's techs and her Mystic Arte is effectively pushed back five levels behind when everybody else gets theirs.
Judith's spear is probably the most convoluted quest in the game.
As to your spoiler question: after going through the area that you find them in, you'll be right back at the entrance anyway. I do believe you have to get the scene in Aurnion, but I'm not 100%.
The stats for Estelle/Rita carry across.
I tried going to where an FAQ said the chain started and wasn't able to do it.
Though what really pissed me off was finding out that because I didn't talk to a guy in the middle of the game, I wasn't able to access the secret dungeon at the end.
I'm torn between it and Saint's Row 2, but to be honest I'm leaning towards ToV if only because I'm also getting Fallout 3 and need to strike some sort of balance between gritty realism and brightly colored anime horsepucky.
Here's both.
Spoiler'd due to YouTube auto-embedding.