Sin & Punishment

Simbelmyne

Hello all,

After seeing the recently released trailer for Sin & Punishment 2 I decided to buy the original Sin & Punishment on the Wii Virtual Console. I had watched some gameplay footage of it and it looked quite fun.

Unfortunately, I'm unable to get a handle on the game's controls (I'm using the classic controller). They are cumbersome to say the least. Perhaps, I'm missing something? I'm hoping someone here will have a tip or some advice which will help me get a grasp on them. I want to like this game, really

Thanks.

Ampix

Simbelmyne wrote: »

Hello all,

After seeing the recently released trailer for Sin & Punishment 2 I decided to buy the original Sin & Punishment on the Wii Virtual Console. I had watched some gameplay footage of it and it looked quite fun.

Unfortunately, I'm unable to get a handle on the game's controls (I'm using the classic controller). They are cumbersome to say the least. Perhaps, I'm missing something? I'm hoping someone here will have a tip or some advice which will help me get a grasp on them. I want to like this game, really

Thanks.

I gotta say I sort of had the same problem as you did, also using the classic controller. In the end I just died a lot so I didn't get very far. The best advice I can give you is to use the gamecube controller, so far that has always been the best for VC N64 games.

Helloween

I got the game when it came out the first time. Like you I tried the Classic Controller but it gave me such grief. I then tried the Gamecube's one. Much much better. From there I went on to almost beat the game (Its well hard ).

It's worth getting stuck into.

Tig

I had the same problem with this game. I remember having the frothing demand for S&P back in the N64 days.... And now that I have it on VC, I'm finding the controls an obstacle to enjoying the game. I want to like it, as you say.


It would work perfectly with the Wiimote/Nunchuck setup, though, so hurrah for S&P 2

Lave II

I've completed it with the classic after trying the cube controller for a while. The classic is the best controller option by far.

I ended up controlling the aim with the left stick and your left/right motion with the a/b or x/y buttons (I can't remember which now). This is very important because it allows you to easily tap left or right twice to instigate the roll which gives you a half second of invincibility which is crucial to survive.

So try that control scheme. It will feel horrible at first as it's against everything you've learned - but after an hour or so it becomes natural, and wonderful.

Once you've mastered the controls get to grips with using the sword (now a shoulder button) as thats the most powerful weapon at your disposal.

Such a very, very, very good game.

Instabuying the sequal.

AbsoluteZero

This is one of those games that was meant for an N64 controller, and just doesn't translate well to the Classic or GC. Once you can get your brain in sync with the controls though, the game is oh so good.

metaghost

Yeah, I'm of the opinion that it's not the controller that's difficult, but simply the control scheme.
It can take a while to get used to, and maybe you never will, but the game is really great.
Stage 3 is magical.

slash000

Now way! The controls on this game are awesome. Personally I prefer to use the Dpad rather than the left analog stick though. (on the Classic Con)

I'll agree it takes some getting used to, but not much. The controls really are superb. I cannot wait for S&P2, and I think IR wii remote aiming will make the controls 1000x better than they already are.

AbsoluteZero

slash000 wrote: »

Now way! The controls on this game are awesome. Personally I prefer to use the Dpad rather than the left analog stick though.

I'll agree it takes some getting used to, but not much. The controls really are superb. I cannot wait for S&P2, and I think IR wii remote aiming will make the controls 1000x better than they already are.

And the game will be like a million times more accessible too.

shyguy

Yeah, it's not that the controls are bad. They're sharp and responsive; if they weren't, nobody would be able to get anywhere in the game at all because it's hard as balls.

The controls are just different than what we're used to and, at first take a lot of concentration.

I cannot possibly praise the game highly enough. It is sublime. It's also a game that genuinely rewards you for getting better at it. I remember being stuck at various parts in the game for days before it suddenly clicked and I was able to breeze through it without any problem. At this point I've played through it dozens of times because it's short enough that when you know what you're doing, it only takes twenty minutes or so.

I still have absolutely no idea what the plot of the game is, however.

slash000

It really only took me maybe 3 minutes to acclimate to the controls in this game. I thought that not only are they wonderful, but not any more complex than controls for a first person shooter. The only difference is that the camera is the thing that's fixed, and the targetting reticle is freemoving; rather than the other way around.

Not any more complicated than the typical N64 (or heck, even modern) FPS, not any more complicated than resident Evil 4 on the cube or PS2.

Sixfortyfive

The Classic Controller is marginally better than the GCN controller because you don't have to depress the shoulder buttons as much to do anything.

Lave II wrote: »

I ended up controlling the aim with the left stick and your left/right motion with the a/b or x/y buttons (I can't remember which now). This is very important because it allows you to easily tap left or right twice to instigate the roll which gives you a half second of invincibility which is crucial to survive.

This is the default control scheme, and also the one that best approximates how it was set up on the N64.

Ampix

Okay you guys convinced me, I'll redownload it for my Wii.

So, should I play with GC controller or Classic controller? I'm not quite sure yet.

Rami

I've only played it with my GC controller, but I had zero difficulties with the controls at the beginning. I'd go wtih the GC controller because it's a more natural set up, then after 1-2 hours when you're okay at handling the game try it out with the classic and see which you prefer.

Sixfortyfive

Rami wrote: »

I'd go wtih the GC controller because it's a more natural set up

Wrongest post in this thread.

Sometimes you really have to mash the triggers quickly to use the sword appropriately or to sidestep when you need to (depending on what control scheme you use). This is fine with the N64 pad, adequate with the CC, and terrible on the GCN.

Simbelmyne

Thanks for the input everyone. I'm starting to get the hang of it. I think the problem is simply that I've spent years moving with left hand and aiming with my right. Doing the opposite feels very unnatural.

And to clarify, I wasn't saying that controls were unresponsive, or too complex, it's simply that they are jarringly different than what I'm used to.

Sixfortyfive

Both analog sticks on the CC can be used to aim, and I think the D-pad can be used for the same functions as the face buttons. I'm pretty sure you can use it to strafe, but I can't remember if you can use it to change the shot mode (which isn't terribly important because you shouldn't use lock-on that much anyway).

It's been a while since I played it, and I always used the left-stick + face buttons anyway.

Rami

Sixfortyfive wrote: »

Rami wrote: »

I'd go wtih the GC controller because it's a more natural set up

Wrongest post in this thread.

Sometimes you really have to mash the triggers quickly to use the sword appropriately or to sidestep when you need to (depending on what control scheme you use). This is fine with the N64 pad, adequate with the CC, and terrible on the GCN.

It isn't wrong, the evidence being the post directly after yours.

It's more natural to move with the left thumb and aim with the right, the opposite of how Lave described the CC setup.

Sixfortyfive

Rami wrote: »

Sixfortyfive wrote: »

Rami wrote: »

I'd go wtih the GC controller because it's a more natural set up

Wrongest post in this thread.

Sometimes you really have to mash the triggers quickly to use the sword appropriately or to sidestep when you need to (depending on what control scheme you use). This is fine with the N64 pad, adequate with the CC, and terrible on the GCN.

It isn't wrong, the evidence being the post directly after yours.

It's more natural to move with the left thumb and aim with the right, the opposite of how Lave described the CC setup.

Except that you can also use the D-pad on the CC to move and the right stick to aim if you want. The functions are mirrored on both sides of the controller, same as it was on the N64.

Eight Rooks

I adore the game, consider it one of the best videogames ever released and can't wait for the sequel, but I only started to like it after I'd re-configured the controls - I have to clarify I originally played it with a Dualshock 2 set up the way you'd play a twin-stick shooter. Utterly, utterly sublime. When I bought the game on the Wii's VC I didn't even bother trying it the "correct" way - classic controller right from the word go. You cannot play this properly on anything approximating the abortion that is the N64 pad and everyone who thinks any differently is wrong. :P

But yes, amazing game. The sequel will probably sell me on a Wii (I bought the VC download on a friends' machine), and the original still stands up today, jagged, pointy graphics and all. The attack on the fleet is one of the greatest set pieces ever created.

AbsoluteZero

shyguy wrote: »

I still have absolutely no idea what the plot of the game is, however.

See, this guy and his cat? They are dicks. That's pretty much the jist of it.

By the way, Sin & Punishment has probably my favorite box art... I hope the sequel gets awesome art as well.

Zampano

This is the best Virtual Console game. Without question.

And the best part of the best game ever is that I have no idea what the fuck is happening. I'm in a field shooting bugs and dragons and then it's a dream and I'm storming a military skyscraper and shooting everything that moves and then a giant robot wolf attacks me and then I transform into an evil evangelion and Tokyo gets destroyed by a deluge of blood.

In stage 1.

Sixfortyfive

I've played through S&P several times. I've yet to sit through all of the cutscenes.

Mostly because they're terrible and the game practically begs you to skip them.

Nami (the director) once said that he favors completely nonsensical and impossible worlds in video games because then you're allowed to just throw in all sorts of crazy shit without anyone batting an eye. More or less, anyway.

AbsoluteZero

Sixfortyfive wrote: »

I've played through S&P several times. I've yet to sit through all of the cutscenes.

Mostly because they're terrible and the game practically begs you to skip them.

Nami (the director) once said that he favors completely nonsensical and impossible worlds in video games because then you're allowed to just throw in all sorts of crazy shit without anyone batting an eye. More or less, anyway.

I fully endorse this school of thought.

Zampano

Am I the only one kinda concerned about the sequel? From the footage I've seen it doesn't seem anywhere near as frantic and action packed as the original.

Sixfortyfive

Zampano wrote: »

Am I the only one kinda concerned about the sequel? From the footage I've seen it doesn't seem anywhere near as frantic and action packed as the original.

I don't really have an opinion one way or the other yet. I do want to know who's working on it, though. Nami left the company after the first game was finished, and Treasure hasn't yet made a sequel without the key staff from the original game.

BahamutZERO

I beat Sin & Punishment, and it is hard. Made my thumbs hurt. But it's a nicely surreal story. The last boss is pretty original and interesting.

Sixfortyfive

The last boss is fucking Missile Command. It pisses me off.

One of these days I'll get that Perfect Bonus.

BahamutZERO

It's more like missile command with a d-pad instead of a mouse. And prettier.

BTP

AbsoluteZero wrote: »

Sixfortyfive wrote: »

I've played through S&P several times. I've yet to sit through all of the cutscenes.

Mostly because they're terrible and the game practically begs you to skip them.

Nami (the director) once said that he favors completely nonsensical and impossible worlds in video games because then you're allowed to just throw in all sorts of crazy shit without anyone batting an eye. More or less, anyway.

I fully endorse this school of thought.

No wonder the last boss is what it is.

A copy of the Earth attacking with chunks of itself as asteroids and sending out natural disasters and other stuff? Coooooooooooooooooool.

There's only two things I can think of that would be just as awesome for the sequel.
-Same idea as in the original game, only it's the whole solar system.
-You're flying through space to battle some kind of being or robot that uses planets and moons as ammo. Just picture something grabbing Mars, putting it into a gun, and then firing it right at you. Its super/special would have to be throwing multiples of Jupiter at you, obviously. :P

Oh wait, "being or robot" would have to be Achi, naturally.

Drunk_caterpillar

Yeah, that was a weird fucking ending.

BahamutZERO

BTP wrote: »

AbsoluteZero wrote: »

Sixfortyfive wrote: »

I've played through S&P several times. I've yet to sit through all of the cutscenes.

Mostly because they're terrible and the game practically begs you to skip them.

Nami (the director) once said that he favors completely nonsensical and impossible worlds in video games because then you're allowed to just throw in all sorts of crazy shit without anyone batting an eye. More or less, anyway.

I fully endorse this school of thought.

No wonder the last boss is what it is.

A copy of the Earth attacking with chunks of itself as asteroids and sending out natural disasters and other stuff? Coooooooooooooooooool.

There's only two things I can think of that would be just as awesome for the sequel.
-Same idea as in the original game, only it's the whole solar system.
-You're flying through space to battle some kind of being or robot that uses planets and moons as ammo. Just picture something grabbing Mars, putting it into a gun, and then firing it right at you. Its super/special would have to be throwing multiples of Jupiter at you, obviously. :P

Oh wait, "being or robot" would have to be Achi, naturally.

That reminds me heavily of the ending to Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. Which is a good thing.

Falstaff

I didn't think the story was that hard to follow.

Alien girl gives out powers through her blood to cultivate warriors capable of fending off a mysterious force that threatens her people. She is also a dick.