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So are we to assume that white males just have it easier than anyone else in the world, and have never had do endure any hardships or ridicule, ever?
I got denied help for college because I was white. How does that make any sense? If I had been anything but a white male, I would have gotten assistance but... Nope, all white dudes are rich and have it easy, right?
Hey what's that I smell?
It's bullshit.
Please post the "We're rejecting you from college because you're white" letter you received. White people don't have any problem getting merit or genuinely need based scholastic assistance. I haven't noticed the sudden rise of the all black campus or the horrible disenfranchisement of the white male since 1970.
For that particular loan, that was the reason. I got money by other means. This was also years ago, so unfortunately I can't scan it in for you. Obviously they didn't say "Hey whitey, no money for you" but at the core, the reason was me being white.
You may disagree or what ever, but I'm just telling you.
I do disagree. And I note that it's now a loan and not college. I would hazard a guess that you have NO knowledge of why you were denied the loan, that your credit score at the time probably had more to do with it than your race, and that you have no proof of who got "your" loan in your stead.
Which of these things am I wrong about?
College loan, financial aid what ever, same shit I just truncated to loan. It had nothing to do with credit score.
I don't recall specifics but it had to do with income brackets, and if I was black I would have been accepted based on the income bracket for minorities. Since I'm not, I couldn't get it.
I did try with the black panthers, but I was shot at so I decided to pass that one up...
No, but i think understanding that word can have a racist or sexist meaning, and not getting defensive when someone misconstrues something will go a long way in this society. Way more then just accusing people of being hyper sensitive.
In other words, if someone accuses you of saying something racist, and you in fact said something that someone could take that way... spending 10 seconds to say that wasn't your intention is much better then saying "nu-uh, I don't care about the social or cultural or historical context of a word, it's NEVER racist and you're an idiot."
I need to learn to be more concise. This, exactly, is what I'm trying to point out.
I have to disagree, to an extent. A person shouldn't have to explain his or her intentions when using commonplace words, except perhaps when those words could be easily linked to its pejorative connotation by a reasonable person. An overly sensitive person might be offended if I were to say, "Obama, now he's my boy." However, I think a reasonable person might find offense to a white customer saying to a black bartender, "Get me a beer, boy." Completely different scenarios, and I think we might agree that the latter has a racial undertone.
If someone is misinterpreting your intentions, yes, I think you should have to clarify that without implying that they're unreasonable. It's not that hard to take 3 seconds (I timed myself) to say "Sorry, I didn't mean it that way" when you say something that could potentially have an offensive connotation.
Really? I think the people the OP describes were working pretty damn hard to misrepresent his intentions and I don't think I would always spare any amount of time to clarify for them.
I'm willing to meet you half-way here. I do think people who are looking for racism won't have to go far to find it, or find something that meets their definition of it. But why should the OP be given the benefit of the doubt and the person who sees racism there not be given it? In other words, if a simple clarification can clear this up, why does this suddenly have to become an indictment of modern society? All the claims of hyper-sensitivity do is minimize legitimate racist concerns. Claiming racism where there is none does this also, but god, why even go down that fucking rabbit hole when you can just say "I didn't mean it that way, maybe you should ask for clarification before jumping to such a conclusion."
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
0
ZimmydoomAccept no substitutesRegistered Userregular
edited October 2008
I often refer to my female friends as "kid" even if they're older than me. It's a term of endearment, but I would certainly understand if someone were offended by it, since it could be misconstrued as dismissive. It is, after all, a "pet" name, and not everyone is cool with that. In truth it's because I've always self-identified as an old man of sorts, and I often end up in situations where I end up dispensing advice like an older brother. It's a half-joke, and I'm often being ironic when I use it. Otherwise it's probably in the context of something like "you're a good kid, don't be so hard on yourself."
Just because it's not my intention to be condescending doesn't mean I'm not responsible if someone were to take offense. This hasn't happened yet (to my knowledge) since I'm careful about how and when I use it, but if a friend were to ask me not to I would apologize on the spot, explain myself, and then never do it again.
As a general rule, it is unreasonable to expect people to self-censor just because someone might be offended (within reason of course). It is entirely reasonable to take responsibility when someone is offended even if no offense was intended, if only to demonstrate that no, you are not actually a boorish moron. If you are unwilling to do this, chances are you aren't mature enough to judge what is reasonable language and what is not, and any attempt to weasel out of it by claiming that the offended person is just "too sensitive" only further demonstrates that you are, in fact, an idiot.
Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
Flew away in a balloon
Had sex with polar bears
While sitting in a reclining chair
Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
Running around and clawing eyelids
Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
Wow, what a ridiculous thread, there are ways to say 'boy' that are clearly racists or demeaning, the way it sounds like you said it clearly isn't one of them.
More slobbery Sentry love. This is pretty much right-on. If you feel someone has mis-construed what you've said: explain it to them. If they still disagree and think you're being a jerk, then maybe you need to take a look at what you've done.
See what I don't like about this line of thought is that it seems to assume that the person being offended in inherently more reasonable than the person making the remark.
In other words, if someone says something that wasn't blatantly offensive and you are offended, maybe you should ask for clarification and/or take a look at what you've done.
I understand what you're saying Bama, but I don't feel that opening a dialog when someone feels hurt (no matter how innocent the remark) is akin to accepting that you've done something wrong or that you're conceding their point.
If you take the time to explain it to them, and they still feel hurt and you still feel your comment was innocent then you part ways and be done with it. But if you've taken the time to explain it then maybe the person that was hurt might now be able to see your comment in more than the one way that they originally took it. Alternately, if you talk to them and they make a good point, maybe you've saved yourself some trouble down the line by knowing that what you've said might cause more people to get their undies in a twist.
You know what takes even less time? Not going out of your way to get offended in the first place. Also, it's much better not to say "nu-uh, I don't care about the social or cultural or historical context of a word, it's ALWAYS racist and you're an idiot." Keep in mind that I'm sticking with the example in the OP. I'm well aware of the presence of subtle racism elsewhere.
Yes, if you hear someone saying something you think is racist, the best thing you should do is just keep your head down, and not say anything. Otherwise, you're an uppity n***er.
You know what takes even less time? Not going out of your way to get offended in the first place. Also, it's much better not to say "nu-uh, I don't care about the social or cultural or historical context of a word, it's ALWAYS racist and you're an idiot." Keep in mind that I'm sticking with the example in the OP. I'm well aware of the presence of subtle racism elsewhere.
Yes, if you hear someone saying something you think is racist, the best thing you should do is just keep your head down, and not say anything. Otherwise, you're an uppity n***er.
I don't see what one's frugality has to do with any of this.
You know what takes even less time? Not going out of your way to get offended in the first place. Also, it's much better not to say "nu-uh, I don't care about the social or cultural or historical context of a word, it's ALWAYS racist and you're an idiot." Keep in mind that I'm sticking with the example in the OP. I'm well aware of the presence of subtle racism elsewhere.
Yes, if you hear someone saying something you think is racist, the best thing you should do is just keep your head down, and not say anything. Otherwise, you're an uppity n***er.
I can't believe you're such a racist.
Bama on
0
ZimmydoomAccept no substitutesRegistered Userregular
You know what takes even less time? Not going out of your way to get offended in the first place. Also, it's much better not to say "nu-uh, I don't care about the social or cultural or historical context of a word, it's ALWAYS racist and you're an idiot." Keep in mind that I'm sticking with the example in the OP. I'm well aware of the presence of subtle racism elsewhere.
Yes, if you hear someone saying something you think is racist, the best thing you should do is just keep your head down, and not say anything. Otherwise, you're an uppity n***er.
Whenever I hear someone say something stupid I try very hard to make it clear how horribly embarrassed I am to be associating with them. It's pretty effective.
Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
Flew away in a balloon
Had sex with polar bears
While sitting in a reclining chair
Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
Running around and clawing eyelids
Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
Hip-hop, despite being sold by the "rich white man" and bought by a white audience (just like pretty much every other sort of music originating with a minority. See also: jazz, blues, rock) is still conflated pretty heavily with black culture in general, so there's already a racial aspect to it. Culturally, hip-hop is still thought of as "black music," rather than just music. There's also the issue that young black men are frequently stereotyped as thugs, which influences how people react to the news of a crime. For example, a crime committed by white men isn't generally taken as indicative of their whole race.
Anyway, I don't think you were being racist, but the conflation of hip-hop with black culture as a whole and also the stereotype of young black men as thugs probably led some people to believe that you were. Again, it's a good time to just clarify your intentions.
Pretty much how I explained it above is what I used to clarify what I meant. I said what I said not because of who was involved, or their race, but because that behavior is pretty much sold to the audience, and if it weren't, I don't think the event that occurred would have happened.
I don't recall specifics but it had to do with income brackets, and if I was black I would have been accepted based on the income bracket for minorities. Since I'm not, I couldn't get it.
Wait wait wait. There are "minority income brackets"? Yes, I'm really asking this. I'm 99% sure there isn't.
Hip-hop, despite being sold by the "rich white man" and bought by a white audience (just like pretty much every other sort of music originating with a minority. See also: jazz, blues, rock) is still conflated pretty heavily with black culture in general, so there's already a racial aspect to it. Culturally, hip-hop is still thought of as "black music," rather than just music. There's also the issue that young black men are frequently stereotyped as thugs, which influences how people react to the news of a crime. For example, a crime committed by white men isn't generally taken as indicative of their whole race.
Anyway, I don't think you were being racist, but the conflation of hip-hop with black culture as a whole and also the stereotype of young black men as thugs probably led some people to believe that you were. Again, it's a good time to just clarify your intentions.
Pretty much how I explained it above is what I used to clarify what I meant. I said what I said not because of who was involved, or their race, but because that behavior is pretty much sold to the audience, and if it weren't, I don't think the event that occurred would have happened.
Cool. You said something someone else misconstrued, you clarified. *holds you up as a good example.*
Just to offer my own clarification: I'm in agreement that clarifying intent is the way to go in situations like these. I just disagree that the person making the comment should necessarily apologize just because someone else took a strange turn with their interpretation.
Just to offer my own clarification: I'm in agreement that clarifying intent is the way to go in situations like these. I just disagree that the person making the comment should necessarily apologize just because someone else took a strange turn with their interpretation.
Just to offer my own clarification: I'm in agreement that clarifying intent is the way to go in situations like these. I just disagree that the person making the comment should necessarily apologize just because someone else took a strange turn with their interpretation.
I also don't think an apology is necessary. What I disagree with is the notion that anyone who sees racism is automatically labeled hyper-sensitive... it just diminishes us as a society. It's the equivalent of Stephen Colbert's "I don't see race" schtick.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
0
ZimmydoomAccept no substitutesRegistered Userregular
Skimming through most of the posts here and anwsering only the OP: You weren't racist and nothing you said was racist in any way. Stay the course.
No, but saying "Please don't misunderstand, I honestly didn't mean any offense. It was an entirely innocent comment, but I absolutely understand how it could have been interpreted." is a lot better than responding with righteous indignation. Not that the OP is doing that, but many others hear are waving the flag of dumb in her place.
Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
Flew away in a balloon
Had sex with polar bears
While sitting in a reclining chair
Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
Running around and clawing eyelids
Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
Just to offer my own clarification: I'm in agreement that clarifying intent is the way to go in situations like these. I just disagree that the person making the comment should necessarily apologize just because someone else took a strange turn with their interpretation.
Eh, it's a social apology, like apologizing if you bump (gently) into someone, not an admission of wrongdoing.
See: "I'm sorry that you were offended by something I didn't intend to be offensive."
rather than
"I'm sorry I was offensive."
Just to offer my own clarification: I'm in agreement that clarifying intent is the way to go in situations like these. I just disagree that the person making the comment should necessarily apologize just because someone else took a strange turn with their interpretation.
I also don't think an apology is necessary. What I disagree with is the notion that anyone who sees racism is automatically labeled hyper-sensitive... it just diminishes us as a society. It's the equivalent of Stephen Colbert's "I don't see race" schtick.
Like I've mentioned before, I've been sticking with situations like the OP. We're mostly saying the same thing, just pointed towards opposite sides.
Skimming through most of the posts here and anwsering only the OP: You weren't racist and nothing you said was racist in any way. Stay the course.
No, but saying "Please don't misunderstand, I honestly didn't mean any offense. It was an entirely innocent comment, but I absolutely understand how it could have been interpreted." is a lot better than responding with righteous indignation. Not that the OP is doing that, but many others hear are waving the flag of dumb in her place.
Oh, yes, I agree. I've read a few of your posts above and found them very right on the subject. I just think he shouldn't avoid the word "boy" from now on when he's planning to use it in a non-racist way.
Hip-hop, despite being sold by the "rich white man" and bought by a white audience (just like pretty much every other sort of music originating with a minority. See also: jazz, blues, rock) is still conflated pretty heavily with black culture in general, so there's already a racial aspect to it. Culturally, hip-hop is still thought of as "black music," rather than just music. There's also the issue that young black men are frequently stereotyped as thugs, which influences how people react to the news of a crime. For example, a crime committed by white men isn't generally taken as indicative of their whole race.
Anyway, I don't think you were being racist, but the conflation of hip-hop with black culture as a whole and also the stereotype of young black men as thugs probably led some people to believe that you were. Again, it's a good time to just clarify your intentions.
Pretty much how I explained it above is what I used to clarify what I meant. I said what I said not because of who was involved, or their race, but because that behavior is pretty much sold to the audience, and if it weren't, I don't think the event that occurred would have happened.
Cool. You said something someone else misconstrued, you clarified. *holds you up as a good example.*
If you feel that way, cool.
But I do think it's a bit different from what I did, something that easily could be taken as racist, compared to saying something like, "Wow, that boy sure can run", when you're referring to a black guy. I understand the racial connotations with the term "boy", but a bit of discretion could be used before someone makes claims about it. There wasn't any discretion used in the OP's situation, and that resulted in both people being hurt by something that was a non issue.
That also kind of ties into my story. I made that statement on a music discussion forum. I (wrongly) assumed that my comments wouldn't be taken wrong. I was eventually banned.
Being called a racist hurts. I can't relate to how it feels to be black and called something racist, but it definitely hurts. I live in the South. Mississippi to be exact, and I find that I'm not often given the benefit of the doubt, and the worst is simply assumed. And that sucks.
This all sort of ties into my "everyone should stop being so PC" stance. I'll give someone the benefit of the doubt, and if I'm proven wrong, they can just fuck right off and I'll have nothing to do with them.
Just to offer my own clarification: I'm in agreement that clarifying intent is the way to go in situations like these. I just disagree that the person making the comment should necessarily apologize just because someone else took a strange turn with their interpretation.
A lot of white people tend to be woefully unaware of the origin of terms they use, or the overtly racist nature of terms that may seem innocuous. For instance, calling an adult black male "boy."
This is just another example of a relatively popular movie scene where the main character refers to a non-racially-based group as "you people", and a black guy who happens to be a member of the group stands up and responds menacingly "What do you mean, YOU PEOPLE?", usually leaving our main character in an absurd and unfortunate situation.
Most people recognize that sort of scene for its unfortunate absurdity and not for our main character being racist. This is the same.
Just to offer my own clarification: I'm in agreement that clarifying intent is the way to go in situations like these. I just disagree that the person making the comment should necessarily apologize just because someone else took a strange turn with their interpretation.
I also don't think an apology is necessary. What I disagree with is the notion that anyone who sees racism is automatically labeled hyper-sensitive... it just diminishes us as a society. It's the equivalent of Stephen Colbert's "I don't see race" schtick.
A sincere apology is not always an admission of guilt nor a sign of weakness. In this context it is a statement of intent to accept responsibility for the unintended consequence of one's poor choice of words. Again, it's about maturity. The adult thing to do is respect the other person's objection and accept fault. If they are an adult they will respond in kind, and apologize for overreacting.
Zimmydoom, Zimmydoom
Flew away in a balloon
Had sex with polar bears
While sitting in a reclining chair
Now there are Zim-Bear hybrids
Running around and clawing eyelids
Watch out, a Zim-Bear is about to have sex with yooooooou!
This is just another example of a relatively popular movie scene where the main character refers to a non-racially-based group as "you people", and a black guy who happens to be a member of the group stands up and responds menacingly "What do you mean, YOU PEOPLE?", usually leaving our main character in an absurd and unfortunate situation.
Most people recognize that sort of scene for its unfortunate absurdity and not for our main character being racist. This is the same.
What comes to mind is the scene in Me Myself and Irene, or more recently Tropic Thunder.
This thread also reminds me a lot of the "porch monkey" bit in Clerks 2.
This is just another example of a relatively popular movie scene where the main character refers to a non-racially-based group as "you people", and a black guy who happens to be a member of the group stands up and responds menacingly "What do you mean, YOU PEOPLE?", usually leaving our main character in an absurd and unfortunate situation.
Most people recognize that sort of scene for its unfortunate absurdity and not for our main character being racist. This is the same.
Wow... you could not have misconstrued that scene more. that scene was about a white guy laying claim to the oppression suffered by blacks due to the fact that he put on some makeup. As a white person he will never know ho blacks have been oppressed or what that felt like, and was chastised accordingly.
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
This is just another example of a relatively popular movie scene where the main character refers to a non-racially-based group as "you people", and a black guy who happens to be a member of the group stands up and responds menacingly "What do you mean, YOU PEOPLE?", usually leaving our main character in an absurd and unfortunate situation.
Most people recognize that sort of scene for its unfortunate absurdity and not for our main character being racist. This is the same.
Wow... you could not have misconstrued that scene more. that scene was about a white guy laying claim to the oppression suffered by blacks due to the fact that he put on some makeup. As a white person he will never know ho blacks have been oppressed or what that felt like, and was chastised accordingly.
Yea, the scene in Tropic Thunder was a bit different from what he is describing. It's a relatively common gag though and doesn't usually have that twist.
edit: the funny thing here is that you're being ignorant of the gag's history. :P
But I do think it's a bit different from what I did, something that easily could be taken as racist, compared to saying something like, "Wow, that boy sure can run", when you're referring to a black guy. I understand the racial connotations with the term "boy", but a bit of discretion could be used before someone makes claims about it.
That also kind of ties into my story. I made that statement on a music discussion forum. I (wrongly) assumed that my comments wouldn't be taken wrong. I was eventually banned.
Being called a racist hurts. I can't relate to how it feels to be black and called something racist, but it definitely hurts. I live in the South. Mississippi to be exact, and I find that I'm not often given the benefit of the doubt, and the worst is simply assumed. And that sucks.
This all sort of ties into my "everyone should stop being so PC" stance. I'll give someone the benefit of the doubt, and if I'm proven wrong, they can just fuck right off and I'll have nothing to do with them.
We may be disagreeing on how easily "boy" can be taken as racist. If you grow up in an area where casual racism is acceptable, you hear "boy" in a racist sense all the fucking time. In that sense, "Wow, that boy sure can run" is going to sound really, really racist when the speaker is white and talking about a black adult. The connotations in that environment are blatantly racist, almost like calling someone a coon.
And being called the victim of racism hurts a whole hell of a lot more than being accused of racism, as well as having more impact on your life in general. Yeah, you got kicked off a music discussion forum. That hardly holds up to getting a longer prison sentence than a white guy because you're black.
How about instead of "everyone should stop being so PC," we have "everyone should make an attempt not to say offensive things, and if someone does say something that offends you, they should clarify and you should accept a reasonable clarification." Because "Stop being so PC" sounds an awful, awful lot like "I want to be able to say offensive things without anyone bothering me about it."
This is just another example of a relatively popular movie scene where the main character refers to a non-racially-based group as "you people", and a black guy who happens to be a member of the group stands up and responds menacingly "What do you mean, YOU PEOPLE?", usually leaving our main character in an absurd and unfortunate situation.
Most people recognize that sort of scene for its unfortunate absurdity and not for our main character being racist. This is the same.
Wow... you could not have misconstrued that scene more. that scene was about a white guy laying claim to the oppression suffered by blacks due to the fact that he put on some makeup. As a white person he will never know ho blacks have been oppressed or what that felt like, and was chastised accordingly.
Yea, the scene in Tropic Thunder was a bit different from what he is describing. It's a relatively common gag though and doesn't usually have that twist.
This is just another example of a relatively popular movie scene where the main character refers to a non-racially-based group as "you people", and a black guy who happens to be a member of the group stands up and responds menacingly "What do you mean, YOU PEOPLE?", usually leaving our main character in an absurd and unfortunate situation.
Most people recognize that sort of scene for its unfortunate absurdity and not for our main character being racist. This is the same.
Wow... you could not have misconstrued that scene more. that scene was about a white guy laying claim to the oppression suffered by blacks due to the fact that he put on some makeup. As a white person he will never know ho blacks have been oppressed or what that felt like, and was chastised accordingly.
Yea, the scene in Tropic Thunder was a bit different from what he is describing. It's a relatively common gag though and doesn't usually have that twist.
Just to offer my own clarification: I'm in agreement that clarifying intent is the way to go in situations like these. I just disagree that the person making the comment should necessarily apologize just because someone else took a strange turn with their interpretation.
A lot of white people tend to be ...
Nothing better for a thread about sensitivity than generalizations!
OK, so I can't use boy around black men, and pots can't call kettles black, I understand. But if I find a weakness in my opponent's defense, can I still say I found a chink in his armor?
OK, so I can't use boy around black men, and pots can't call kettles black, I understand. But if I find a weakness in my opponent's defense, can I still say I found a chink in his armor?
Not if you are speaking around people who ignore context no matter what.
I think Hillary campaigned as Hillary because there had already been a Clinton.
That works for the presidential campaign, but what about when she was just Senator?
Her campaign also already had to make up for the fact that she was considered too ambitious and unwomanly. Female politicians have to walk a fine line between being too "feminine" and therefore weak, or too "masculine" and therefore icky and a lesbian.
The word "boy" has many non-racist connotations. Even when stated to an adult. Rarely would any of them apply to an adult black male, but in this case it certainly was not racist and did apply to an adult black male.
As such, I see no problem with someone else saying, "Haha yeah a real sweetheart for his grandma. But be careful using 'boy' to describe a black man, you may not realize this but it's got a history..." They are certainly doing the right thing in pointing out that while not racist, the word he chose fell into territory that might or might not be misconstrued. Because it did fall into that territory. And hence I also see no problem with the speaker then following it up with, "Oh, oops, sorry. Thanks for informing me."
However, getting bent out of shape about it and calling him racist is merely a case of linguistic bullying and childishness. People act as if they win points when they successfully point out the apparent insensitivity of others, no matter how much they have to purposefully misinterpret them in order to win that point. That seems to be the motivation of the friends in this case. They were basically buffing their own moral and intellectual ego by taking advantage of a vulnerability left open by an innocent and coincidental confluence of contexts in order to make themselves appear superior to the speaker.
This thread has made me realize how much I hate political correctness as a whole.
This just screams the same sentiment of "You can't use retard(ed) because my child is specially abled and I have nothing better to do than whine." It borders on the same concepts as forum trolling.
This thread has made me realize how much I hate political correctness as a whole.
This just screams the same sentiment of "You can't use retard(ed) because my child is specially abled and I have nothing better to do than whine." It borders on the same concepts as forum trolling.
Well, you can use "retarded" after someone asks you not to because it offends them. You won't go to jail. It does make you look like an asshole, though.
Posts
College loan, financial aid what ever, same shit I just truncated to loan. It had nothing to do with credit score.
I don't recall specifics but it had to do with income brackets, and if I was black I would have been accepted based on the income bracket for minorities. Since I'm not, I couldn't get it.
I did try with the black panthers, but I was shot at so I decided to pass that one up...
I'm willing to meet you half-way here. I do think people who are looking for racism won't have to go far to find it, or find something that meets their definition of it. But why should the OP be given the benefit of the doubt and the person who sees racism there not be given it? In other words, if a simple clarification can clear this up, why does this suddenly have to become an indictment of modern society? All the claims of hyper-sensitivity do is minimize legitimate racist concerns. Claiming racism where there is none does this also, but god, why even go down that fucking rabbit hole when you can just say "I didn't mean it that way, maybe you should ask for clarification before jumping to such a conclusion."
Just because it's not my intention to be condescending doesn't mean I'm not responsible if someone were to take offense. This hasn't happened yet (to my knowledge) since I'm careful about how and when I use it, but if a friend were to ask me not to I would apologize on the spot, explain myself, and then never do it again.
As a general rule, it is unreasonable to expect people to self-censor just because someone might be offended (within reason of course). It is entirely reasonable to take responsibility when someone is offended even if no offense was intended, if only to demonstrate that no, you are not actually a boorish moron. If you are unwilling to do this, chances are you aren't mature enough to judge what is reasonable language and what is not, and any attempt to weasel out of it by claiming that the offended person is just "too sensitive" only further demonstrates that you are, in fact, an idiot.
If you take the time to explain it to them, and they still feel hurt and you still feel your comment was innocent then you part ways and be done with it. But if you've taken the time to explain it then maybe the person that was hurt might now be able to see your comment in more than the one way that they originally took it. Alternately, if you talk to them and they make a good point, maybe you've saved yourself some trouble down the line by knowing that what you've said might cause more people to get their undies in a twist.
Whenever I hear someone say something stupid I try very hard to make it clear how horribly embarrassed I am to be associating with them. It's pretty effective.
Pretty much how I explained it above is what I used to clarify what I meant. I said what I said not because of who was involved, or their race, but because that behavior is pretty much sold to the audience, and if it weren't, I don't think the event that occurred would have happened.
Cool. You said something someone else misconstrued, you clarified. *holds you up as a good example.*
I also don't think an apology is necessary. What I disagree with is the notion that anyone who sees racism is automatically labeled hyper-sensitive... it just diminishes us as a society. It's the equivalent of Stephen Colbert's "I don't see race" schtick.
No, but saying "Please don't misunderstand, I honestly didn't mean any offense. It was an entirely innocent comment, but I absolutely understand how it could have been interpreted." is a lot better than responding with righteous indignation. Not that the OP is doing that, but many others hear are waving the flag of dumb in her place.
Eh, it's a social apology, like apologizing if you bump (gently) into someone, not an admission of wrongdoing.
See: "I'm sorry that you were offended by something I didn't intend to be offensive."
rather than
"I'm sorry I was offensive."
Oh, yes, I agree. I've read a few of your posts above and found them very right on the subject. I just think he shouldn't avoid the word "boy" from now on when he's planning to use it in a non-racist way.
If you feel that way, cool.
But I do think it's a bit different from what I did, something that easily could be taken as racist, compared to saying something like, "Wow, that boy sure can run", when you're referring to a black guy. I understand the racial connotations with the term "boy", but a bit of discretion could be used before someone makes claims about it. There wasn't any discretion used in the OP's situation, and that resulted in both people being hurt by something that was a non issue.
That also kind of ties into my story. I made that statement on a music discussion forum. I (wrongly) assumed that my comments wouldn't be taken wrong. I was eventually banned.
Being called a racist hurts. I can't relate to how it feels to be black and called something racist, but it definitely hurts. I live in the South. Mississippi to be exact, and I find that I'm not often given the benefit of the doubt, and the worst is simply assumed. And that sucks.
This all sort of ties into my "everyone should stop being so PC" stance. I'll give someone the benefit of the doubt, and if I'm proven wrong, they can just fuck right off and I'll have nothing to do with them.
Most people recognize that sort of scene for its unfortunate absurdity and not for our main character being racist. This is the same.
A sincere apology is not always an admission of guilt nor a sign of weakness. In this context it is a statement of intent to accept responsibility for the unintended consequence of one's poor choice of words. Again, it's about maturity. The adult thing to do is respect the other person's objection and accept fault. If they are an adult they will respond in kind, and apologize for overreacting.
This thread also reminds me a lot of the "porch monkey" bit in Clerks 2.
Wow... you could not have misconstrued that scene more. that scene was about a white guy laying claim to the oppression suffered by blacks due to the fact that he put on some makeup. As a white person he will never know ho blacks have been oppressed or what that felt like, and was chastised accordingly.
edit: the funny thing here is that you're being ignorant of the gag's history. :P
We may be disagreeing on how easily "boy" can be taken as racist. If you grow up in an area where casual racism is acceptable, you hear "boy" in a racist sense all the fucking time. In that sense, "Wow, that boy sure can run" is going to sound really, really racist when the speaker is white and talking about a black adult. The connotations in that environment are blatantly racist, almost like calling someone a coon.
And being called the victim of racism hurts a whole hell of a lot more than being accused of racism, as well as having more impact on your life in general. Yeah, you got kicked off a music discussion forum. That hardly holds up to getting a longer prison sentence than a white guy because you're black.
How about instead of "everyone should stop being so PC," we have "everyone should make an attempt not to say offensive things, and if someone does say something that offends you, they should clarify and you should accept a reasonable clarification." Because "Stop being so PC" sounds an awful, awful lot like "I want to be able to say offensive things without anyone bothering me about it."
I haven't seen Tropic Thunder :shrug:
It was surprisingly progressive in some ways.
Nothing better for a thread about sensitivity than generalizations!
Not if you are speaking around people who ignore context no matter what.
That works for the presidential campaign, but what about when she was just Senator?
Her campaign also already had to make up for the fact that she was considered too ambitious and unwomanly. Female politicians have to walk a fine line between being too "feminine" and therefore weak, or too "masculine" and therefore icky and a lesbian.
As such, I see no problem with someone else saying, "Haha yeah a real sweetheart for his grandma. But be careful using 'boy' to describe a black man, you may not realize this but it's got a history..." They are certainly doing the right thing in pointing out that while not racist, the word he chose fell into territory that might or might not be misconstrued. Because it did fall into that territory. And hence I also see no problem with the speaker then following it up with, "Oh, oops, sorry. Thanks for informing me."
However, getting bent out of shape about it and calling him racist is merely a case of linguistic bullying and childishness. People act as if they win points when they successfully point out the apparent insensitivity of others, no matter how much they have to purposefully misinterpret them in order to win that point. That seems to be the motivation of the friends in this case. They were basically buffing their own moral and intellectual ego by taking advantage of a vulnerability left open by an innocent and coincidental confluence of contexts in order to make themselves appear superior to the speaker.
This just screams the same sentiment of "You can't use retard(ed) because my child is specially abled and I have nothing better to do than whine." It borders on the same concepts as forum trolling.
Well, you can use "retarded" after someone asks you not to because it offends them. You won't go to jail. It does make you look like an asshole, though.