The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
Please vote in the Forum Structure Poll. Polling will close at 2PM EST on January 21, 2025.
So I have a way to get to know this [GIRL THREAD]...
yalborap
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Okay, some of you may know me. If you don't, here's the quick and short version. I'm 16, I'm a shut-in in an independent studies program, I have minimal social ability, and I have some self-esteem and confidence issues.
Somehow, that twisted hodgepodge of 'what the christ' got roped into doing a school newsletter for his independent study school place...Thing. Point is, I'm in charge, and I've got two minions. One's a dude, one's a dudette.
I've barely talked with the dudette, but she seems pretty quiet. How likely is the possibility that she's creeped the fuck out by me, compared to just being shy and/or quiet in general?
And since I'm stuck working with her on the newsletter thing, is it even worth trying to pull this off? I mean, would it make more sense to just keep things disconnected and professional, especially since I'm the editor and hence would have to just plain tell her if her stuff was shit?
Thanks in advance for any advice you guys can offer. I'm kinda shot ideas-wise, since I'm flying by the seat of my pants with this whole situation.
Somehow, that twisted hodgepodge of 'what the christ' got roped into doing a school newsletter for his independent study school place...Thing. Point is, I'm in charge, and I've got two minions. One's a dude, one's a dudette.
I've barely talked with the dudette, but she seems pretty quiet. How likely is the possibility that she's creeped the fuck out by me, compared to just being shy and/or quiet in general?
And since I'm stuck working with her on the newsletter thing, is it even worth trying to pull this off? I mean, would it make more sense to just keep things disconnected and professional, especially since I'm the editor and hence would have to just plain tell her if her stuff was shit?
Thanks in advance for any advice you guys can offer. I'm kinda shot ideas-wise, since I'm flying by the seat of my pants with this whole situation.
yalborap on
0
Posts
But before you do that, get some self-confidence. It will make everything seem a bit better and besides, a good number of women like it. That blurb about you thinking she is creeped out by you came out of nowhere. Just because someone is quiet doesn't mean they despise you. Learn to like yourself and people will start liking you.
To put this in perspective: I'm an A-grade student. Had a 4.0 on my report card at the end of my junior year. I have, in all due seriousness, considered the possibility that I'm actually an idiot and my teachers are fucking with me because stuff simply should not be this easy.
You can see how this would be...Problematic to my sanity and ability to appear confident and normal to the people around me.
When you see them, smile, say hello. Ask them about their day. Tell a funny story. Make conversation.
If social skills aren't your strong point, then you need to practice to improve. Just talk, and be nice. Relax. Try to have fun conversing.
(I doubt the girl is creeped out by you, but she might be wondering why you don't talk with her at all)
Or, you know, direct to jail without passing go and collecting 200 dollars. Either or.
Even if you try to hide it in thin self-deprecation.
(That's the kind of thing that would make you seem creepy, as in your OP.)
The former. I'm pretty sure that "normally, but avoid the dick and fart jokes" is about what I need to work with for talking to females, right?
Remove the " ,but avoid the dick and fat jokes" and that's how I behave around girls, who are still my friends. Basically, what I'm saying is that there's just as many different kinds of girls are there are kinds of guys.
Obviously to most people that word is synonymous with "socially awkward" or "lonely" but what does it really mean?
What it means is that you psychologically turn everything inward. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. One of it's good parts is that you think deeply about a lot of things and honestly that makes you a more conscientious person to be around. For example, you give a crap what these people think of you, and how you present yourself. Some people wouldn't.
Now, where being an introvert can be problematic is with social interaction. When interacting socially what you're probably doing is taking outside cues and internalizing them. Basically, what you read from others is automatically filtered through your inward view of yourself. That is to say, you do the thinking for other people based on what you personally think of yourself.
You have poor self-esteem. You don't seem to like yourself much, and you think you're stupid despite there being written proof that you are, in fact, not. This is your inner view of yourself.
Now when you deal with a young woman and she's "quiet"...you automatically internalize, you filter it through your own view of yourself and you conclude that she's creeped out by you.
Now, that might be the case. But it also really, really might not be. She might be shy herself, she might be having a bad time elsewhere in her life, so on and so forth. You can't control that stuff. It might and we may even conclude - that it has not a damn thing to do with you. Have you observed her being not-quiet with other people? Maybe she's simply slow to open up around people she doesn't know or who don't know her.
What you can control is how you act; whether you're respectful, whether you smile and make eye contact, whether you smell nice and dress well, et cetera.
You're probably not going to stop internalizing everything, but you need to do this: you need to realize that you're internalizing things and stop that process of negative thinking.
For example: If a girl smiles at you, you need to take that as it is - a girl is smiling at you for some reason. Maybe you've done something right and made her smile, maybe it's her own reason. What you do not do is take the fact that she smiled inside, put it through the negative lens through which you see yourself, and conclude: "This girl can't be smiling at me, I'm an idiot who's incapable of being liked, so she's either crazy or she's fucking with me."
That may not be the case and may not be reality. But neither of those things matter if you actually think that despite cues otherwise.
Maybe it's just the girls where I went to school but they laughed equally at the political quips as much as the dick and AIDS jokes. Don't treat girls like they're made of porcelain, that was how it was 50 years ago, not anymore. Women didn't have that whole equal rights shenanigan just for the sake of it.
I'm not saying don't be a gentleman or chivalric, but I am saying don't pretend to be Earnest out of Oscar Wilde's play.
Edit: Also, OP, chances are that the shy girl shares many of your sentiments. You go to an "independent place of study" - I'm assuming that means most of the students there would be ready applicants for Mensa sans the aspergers. In all likelihood she may have self-esteem issues about her looks and intelligence etc. just like you, and that she's shy because of it. Not because she already hates you, even though she's only spent an hour in your company.
Girls have all sort of self-esteem issues just like guys, so it's entirely possible that a girl is shy because she likes you or just because she's like that (shy). She doesn't have to be creeped out.
Ioga, it's not so much that I distinctly think I'm stupid, as that's just an explanation for teachers fucking with me. When I step back and look at it, I know I'm pretty damn intelligent. Maybe not the smartest around, but I'm incredibly quick-witted. I know this. It's just that I feel this innate lack of trust, that everything could be revealed as a brittle facade at any moment. Which probably plays more into a general low self-esteem.
So...Yeah. On another note, is there anything I could do to maybe get the girl to relax and be, if not open, at least more free-talking? I've got no damn clue how to manage that.
The best way to get her to relax and be open, like with basically any other member of the human race, is to relax and be open yourself. Smile. Learn to smile mostly with your eyes so you can do that while you're talking. Say "Hey, how's it going?" and listen when she answers. Pick up on conversational cues. For example, if she mentions something about having too much homework, say "Yeah, I'm swamped too, that essay was a pain," or "Yeah, I'm glad to have a bit of a break, but I'm not looking forward to it picking back up again." Empathize; school may be easy for you, but hopefully you know the feeling of being busy.
Do all this with the dude, too, because honestly, I don't think you ought to try to date this girl. Even casual dating requires a pretty decent level of social acumen, and relationships even more so. Put some XP into "learning to make friends" and "chatting with strangers" before you try dating.
Oh, and for pete's sake, don't ever say anything along the lines of "I'm so smart, school is pitifully easy." (Although if it really is that easy, you should look for some new challenges. I suggest a campaign of "force myself to learn social skills.")
Okay, I thank you for your advice, but I have to know. Have I stupidly said shit like that here a lot and forgotten(beyond the one thing in my paranoia rant)? Is it just cliche for social retards who get good grades to say this? Does this keep coming up because of the bit in the paranoia rant? If not, WHY?
Sorry, that wasn't the intention at all. I can go edit it out if you'd all prefer.
Oh, heh. No, you haven't said anything like that, except for the one thing in your paranoia rant. I just remember being a nerdy teenage girl and having nerdy teenage boys hit on me, and for some reason they all wanted to brag about how they could've taught AP Calculus better than the teacher, or how they were sure to get into MENSA, or how they were writing the Great American Novel. It made me want to smack them with a rolled-up newspaper and say "Yeah, but you obviously can't talk to people without sounding like a pretentious ass."
Not that you're a pretentious ass, and they weren't trying to be either, but when you're very gifted academically, it's good to remember that academic intelligence is only one of several kinds of intelligence. If you're bored with academics, work on your social skills, or learn something athletic, or pick up an instrument; do something that develops your other sorts of smarts.
Utter failure in the things I WANTED to be good at(art, videogame playing against my one and only real-life friend) long ago taught me this concept.
...And may have contributed to my self-esteem problems, in retrospect.
The root of the problem is that you have unbelievably low self-esteem and focus so much on academics that you likely forgot that it's not just book smarts that make you a whole person. In fact, people who are incredibly academic usually ARE less socially active and socially competent, it's how it is, but then one wonders why that is the case.
It could be that you have such low self-esteem that you shy away from people, thinking you're constantly in their way or creeping them out or offending them, so you turn to things that couldn't possible judge you, like books.
It could also be that you simply place academics very high on your list of priorities and it requires a lot of work to be and stay on top so you put in that work instead of being socially active, so when a social situation DOES come up, you find yourself naturally lost and intimidated. This scares you because you when it comes to school stuff you are 100% in your element, but uh oh this bit is new ground. So you naturally develop low self-esteem.
Whatever the reason, the point here is that the girl problem is just a "symptom" of the low self-esteem thing. If you really want to be less socially awkward, the only way to do so is to get out there and interact with people. Start by observing, if you like, but eventually coax yourself to say something. Yeah, you'll make an ass of yourself every now and again, but everyone has.
And at some point, you have to figure out what the balance is between caring what people think of you, to taking in constructive criticism, but that'll be later. Right now, it's being comfortable around people.
Get more well-rounded. Like many people have said, broaden your horizons. Grades aren't everything. Do volunteer work. Try a sport. Do something artsy.
When people approach you or talk to you, smile and speak with confidence. Don't automatically assume they'll dislike you. RIGHT NOW, DO NOT DISTINGUISH BETWEEN GIRLS AND BOYS. You care too much about girls at present for dating to be healthy.
Then again, if you want to date a girl, by all means, do so. There's no faster way to realize that girls are just human than going on a date with one.
Actually getting the date though will require you to switch off the part of your brain that thinks girls are delicate little flowers made of crystal. They're just people.
You say you're good at school. If this isn't enough to make you satisfied, get better at something else. If you want to form a relationship with this girl, make her a friend first. You guys are working on the same newsletter, so get to know her through that. Start the conversations, even if it's something as simple as asking for her opinion on a page layout or whatever.
And I don't focus on academics. Part of the reason for my paranoias involving that. I goof off. I focus on my photography and my videogames and my writing more than my schoolwork, and usually do everything due for that week in the last day or three days. SOMEONE LIKE THAT SHOULDN'T BE GETTING A'S.
Also, Kazhiim? You try getting beaten in every single vs. mode, and your high scores trashed in every single single-player game with high scores. You start wishing you were better quickly.
I live with five other dudes who kick my ass at smash brothers. I am consistantly the worst player whenever I playa against them. They rub it in my face and gloat about it all the time. Yeah, it pisses me off.
But guess what? Videogames don't really matter. They don't define me as a person. No one thing does. LE GASP, HOW DARE I SAY THAT ON THE PENNIES ARCAED FORUMS.
I never claimed it was logical.
Though we're also talking when I was maybe five, and video games were my obsession. So it was a wee bit frustrating to constantly come up short of my only point of comparison. I've gotten over it, admittedly partially due to the fact that I actually win from time to time now.
Joining an extracurricular group or club is a good idea, but remember to get to know the people there outside of the club. I joined the campus democratic group here, but I also go to stuff they organize tangentially to the club (watching the presidential debates at a person's house, for instance) so that I can get to know them as whole people, rather than just members of a club.
Also, you're in highschool. Don't be afraid to try and be social even if you fuck it up and come off as an even bigger creeper, because you're not going to know any of these fuckers in three years anyway unless you really get to know them.
I never claimed it was. I merely claimed that I had long ago learned that academics were just one thing when, while much younger, I didn't enjoy my academic ability and sucked at the things I did enjoy.
Sorry again. I'm not getting my points across at all.
Basically, there are two kinds of artists: people who are naturally gifted at art, and people who aren't gifted at all but work incredibly hard. You found out that you weren't the former, and you're probably comparing yourself against a mixed group of the gifted and the not-gifted but hardworking, which of course makes it look like everyone else just throws some paint on a canvas and makes the Mona Lisa while you're piddling along with crooked pictures of houses. If art is important to you, you have to work your ass off for it.
I know. I eventually figured out that the only reason I wanted to draw was to get ideas out of my head, and got into writing and photography instead.
As for the videogame thing...I don't consider them a big deal, as I've said. It was purely an example, because at the time I was incredibly frustrated by my continued failure to meet the challenges before me.
This doesn't change the fact that these are heavily introverted activities and most of my advice still stands.
The only way to not screw up in a social situation is to be in one and learn from it. So go out there and engage in activities that involve more people. Like you said, you only have one real-life friend. Expand your social circle. Get comfortable with people. Observe, figure out what they're really like. Hiding away and second-guessing yourself isn't going to make things better.
So with your CURRENT situation (which I didn't directly address because there are plenty of avenues to make friends, you just have to explore them), just TALK TO THEM LIKE PEOPLE. Ask them what they like to do in their spare time. Why are they working on the newsletter? Have lunch with them, initiate conversation by asking questions you are curious about. Observe their behavior. Crack a joke or two. Ask how they're doing, how their morning was, how are YOU doing as their boss.
There are a million ways to initiate conversation. Point is, stop being afraid of making mistakes and just DO IT.
If you lose this avenue, there are dozens more. You just need a kick in the ass to actually explore those; as it is, you only have this newsletter thing because it happened to fall into place like that. So get up, get out, fuck up, learn, and fix your problem.
Or, you know, you go ahead and figure out what you did wrong and do it again. And again. Until you're better at it. It's called perseverance. It's called a positive attitude.
Failure should never be a deterrent. It, at worst, is a learning experience. At best, it is an opportunity to do something better.
Well yeah. I meant that if you're consistantly failing at something, despite putting an effort into it, you may need to try something else.
But you're not putting any effort into it, yalborap. You gotta fall off the horse a couple times before you have an excuse to quit the race.
Okay, first, are we talking about the girl thing or the art-and-games thing? Because on the girl thing, my options are extremely limited right now, though after the next meeting I could talk to her/both of them more easily. On the art thing, I tried for several years, then I found something that I was better at that made me happier. So...Yeah.
Make the change by making a damn effort. That's the solution to your problem. Focusing solely on THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE is narrowing (you're locking yourself into the idea that this is the ONLY WAY FOR YOU TO MAKE FRIENDS) and doesn't solve the base of your issue, which is that you are not comfortable in social situations. Get out there and meet people. MAKE more options. Don't wait for them to fall into your lap.
Quite frankly, we could have been talking about either thing, it would've still applied. If you found something better than art, great! Fact is though, if you are really are passionate about being good at something, you probably wouldn't let a few failures bring you down anyway.
kpop appreciation station i also like to tweet some
See, you're doing that thing again. Who's to say who should and should not be getting A's? You are getting A's, so... why shouldn't you be? Plenty of people maintain good GPAs without toiling away in the library for 12 hours a day. Some people don't. The point is that thinking about that sort of thing is a pretty worthless exercise, as it traps you inside your own head and makes you come off as pretty neurotic, which is pretty much the crux of your issue. You get good grades, so you get good grades. There doesn't really need to be any other consideration beyond that. Whoever it was that posted earlier about you being introverted was right on the money; it's not a bad trait at all (Hell, I'm pretty introverted myself), but it can certainly lead to negative tendencies if you don't make efforts to build up that confidence.
Also, you're 16, which is a stupid, awkward age. (No offense, but you'll see.) It's good that you're starting to realize these things about yourself now, but sometimes, time is the only thing that can really lead to maturity. For now, chill out, don't go insane wondering "Why am I like this? Am I creepy? Why are my grades good?!" Try to accept things for what they are a bit more. Sometimes a quiet girl is just a quiet girl. You see how you're not obsessing about what the other dude thinks about you? Well, maybe that's exactly how this girl is thinking about you, which means she isn't scrutinizing your every flaw (that she would probably have no way of knowing about, anyway). You're the one that knows the most about yourself, which makes it easy to get a little lost in your own mind.
Edit: I'm not really sure I even understand what the issue is here. You're not going to fuck this girl, so why the concern?
Still in high school. And dammit, I KNOW IT DOESN'T MEAN SHIT.
I don't want to be rude here, especially since I'm the one asking for the help, but really, I've figured a lot of this kinda shit out already. I know my grades don't mean a goddamned thing, I know my hobbies are unimportant, I know I'm a social fuckup who just needs to man up and get the fuck out there, I know I'm a freak, I know there's no damn easy button, and I know that I suck. I was just looking for some reassurance that this was actually a potentially viable thing(focusing on the PLATONIC, not on the ROMANTIC end of things, perhaps my use of the [GIRL THREAD] tag being incorrect), and maybe some advice on what I could do to break the ice and actually get a friend out of all of this instead of a restraining order placed on me.
Sorry for being such a problem.
EDIT: Oh hell, another post popped up while I was in the middle of mine.
Zeromus, the main thing is I haven't even properly met the dude yet. The girl, I've at least sat down in a meeting thing with her physically. The guy's out of town at the moment, so we haven't talked face to face yet. I figure I'll be internally freaking the fuck out about his opinion too when that changes.
Relax, son, damn.
You're not going to get a restraining order slapped on your for TALKING TO SOMEONE. The only solution anyone can give you has already been given: smile, crack a joke, be yourself. And I mean just have a regular conversation with her. How's she doing, where's she from, what's she into... these are INNOCENT questions that EVERYONE asks of EVERYONE.
If you fuck it up and she doesn't want to be your friend and wants to just stay as a coworker sort of thing, then fuck it, find another way to make friends. There are plenty out there. You are psyching yourself out over this one thing for no reason at all.
Everyone's human, yourself included. There is no practical way for anyone to give you more advice beyond just going out there and figuring shit out for yourself, as that's likely how everybody else that's posted in this thread has done it.