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To wed or not to Wed
RallyGirl76
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This is a long and confusing tale so be patient with me;
In 2003 I dated a guy for nearly a year (we broke up cause I had some personal issues over an event that happened to me in 2002 "I was kidnapped and held hostage for 12 hours in a foreign country" also I didn't want to face what had happened to me and wanted to travel more to get over it.) So we broke up and I worked in New Zealand for a bit, traveled some more and I started to become happier (on the surface.) I also felt at the time like that was the right choice and I wasn't in love head over heels with him.
I have always wanted that head over heels, passionate love...
We lost contact and haven't spoken since 2006 when he sent a random hello how are you message to me via email, which I kind of ignored, as I was in a new relationship and was feeling in love ( I thought I had finally found that passion never dies romance you get once in a life time) and like that would be "The one" so I just responded briefly with; I'm good, I'm dating and happily looking forward to great things kind of email was sent to him.
Fast forward to September 30th this year and my boyfriend of 2 years (same one from 2006) and I brake up in a completely huge clusterfucking. We have had a tumultuous relationship, at best, lots of disrespect and anger thrown my way, lack of communication, stress and I responded with despondence at the start then I got pissed that when I wanted to sort stuff out he was disconnected. Our timing was off constantly and he never forgives and forgets and I was still holding on to my personal issues internally. leading to several brake ups over the years, but I though passion and love draw us back constantly to each other.
Anyway, we broke up (this time) because his ex called (ex he got during a 2 month brake up with me) and he was happy about her call and basically said to her that he couldn't talk "right now" (no mention of me or that he was busy with me) just rude really. I believe in staying friends with ex's but I also believe in showing your partner the respect due to them first and foremost (and we had been so happy for 2 months up to this point, that I started to fall in love again) but the call was a clear wake up call to me that he was just not that into me anymore.
I got upset and told him so (didn't yell or anything) in fact I went to the bathroom for a relaxing bath to think about why I was upset in the first place, when I came back he turned away and refused to talk to me (choosing the PC instead) and that was common theme in our relationship. The next week or so was crazy he wanted to be left alone to think, I wanted to talk and sort it and I wanted either to sort it out or brake up. So I went over to his place (I had moved out months earlier) and we broke up.
I handled it really poorly, basically had an internal meltdown, couldn't sleep or think straight, felt despair, had a physical injury from our sexual habbits (anal lesion) that required medical attention and I was so embarrassed so I left it for a week and it got infected, started to get really weird, scary, intense, flashbacks of my kidnapping (when I was awake!) and I eventually had a panic attack (in public no less!) that left me in hospital for a weekend.
I called my ex of 2 years, after I got out of hospital just for a chat to calm my head (I really loved him and he had a way of working with me to calm my breathing that was magical, I'm asthmatic and find it hard to breath when crying...) and I wanted to see if I could salvage, at the very least, a friendship from the wreckage, only to find out, he is now back with the girl that started our relationship demise...needless to say I hit rock bottom!
So I took sometime off work, slept for a few days, ate everything in sight and cried loads, and wrote a list of things to do, and started a plan to bet this crappy situation.
I went to a therapist to talk about my kidnapping and abusive relationship, also to speak about my temper and to see if I was abusive in the relationship (my ex used to accuse me of being abusive for wanting to discuss things face to face and wanting to resolve issues instead of letting them linger and fester for weeks as he wanted. Also I slapped him once for trying to kiss me after we had broken up (I think that is the worst thing I have ever done in my life!)
I re-enrolled in uni. I changed my life to reflect my new single status, planned my next holiday, cleaned out my apartment and I kept busy!
October 16th I got an email from the guy I dated in 2003, wanting to know how I am and am I free to catch up, I ignore him, feeling shitty about my brake up and like I had lost my true love and life as I know it is over... a few weeks later he emails again, asking if I'm getting the emails, he's had no bounce back and wants to meet up.
So I meet up with him and I burst in to tears, I explain everything in great detail over hours and hours of conversation, we spend the entire weekend together, he tells me of his life and how the central theme has been ways in which he misses me, compares others to me and can't forget how cute, loving and nice my lips are....fast forward to now....
We have been on several dates, we have picked up where we left off basically, he makes me laugh, we are falling in love!
the 11th of November my ex starts emailing me about nonsense stuff...I tell current boy I'm messed up about it, the ex makes me sad, I cry and explained my love and how I felt for sure he was the one and that we spoke of marriage and kids (little girl called lorna, and how he would look after her while I went of to work even if they sat under pizza boxes waiting for me...) I'm crying as I right this!
Monday out of the blue, current boy asks me to marry him, says the day he let me walk out of his life was the biggest mistake of his life, he says he knows where i'm at, wants to work through my issues as a team and wants us to get married, travel, have babies and start our life together. he says I'm his one...
Without a doubt , he proposed in the most romantic way, the ring is lovely (could not have picked better myself) I feel I want kids, I want a wedding and I REALLY want to be happy and have the dream...
I know my ex was not good for me, and I'm sure I'm thinking about him only because of the emails, but in the back of my mind I'm worried, is this a bounce back relationship?!? What if I am about to make a mistake, what if I am making a mistake by not taking the chance, am I rushing things...Am I ready for this after everything I have been though (i'm still getting emails and shit from my most recent ex and I had not planed on this...)
I'm all kinds of fucked up, please advise!
In 2003 I dated a guy for nearly a year (we broke up cause I had some personal issues over an event that happened to me in 2002 "I was kidnapped and held hostage for 12 hours in a foreign country" also I didn't want to face what had happened to me and wanted to travel more to get over it.) So we broke up and I worked in New Zealand for a bit, traveled some more and I started to become happier (on the surface.) I also felt at the time like that was the right choice and I wasn't in love head over heels with him.
I have always wanted that head over heels, passionate love...
We lost contact and haven't spoken since 2006 when he sent a random hello how are you message to me via email, which I kind of ignored, as I was in a new relationship and was feeling in love ( I thought I had finally found that passion never dies romance you get once in a life time) and like that would be "The one" so I just responded briefly with; I'm good, I'm dating and happily looking forward to great things kind of email was sent to him.
Fast forward to September 30th this year and my boyfriend of 2 years (same one from 2006) and I brake up in a completely huge clusterfucking. We have had a tumultuous relationship, at best, lots of disrespect and anger thrown my way, lack of communication, stress and I responded with despondence at the start then I got pissed that when I wanted to sort stuff out he was disconnected. Our timing was off constantly and he never forgives and forgets and I was still holding on to my personal issues internally. leading to several brake ups over the years, but I though passion and love draw us back constantly to each other.
Anyway, we broke up (this time) because his ex called (ex he got during a 2 month brake up with me) and he was happy about her call and basically said to her that he couldn't talk "right now" (no mention of me or that he was busy with me) just rude really. I believe in staying friends with ex's but I also believe in showing your partner the respect due to them first and foremost (and we had been so happy for 2 months up to this point, that I started to fall in love again) but the call was a clear wake up call to me that he was just not that into me anymore.
I got upset and told him so (didn't yell or anything) in fact I went to the bathroom for a relaxing bath to think about why I was upset in the first place, when I came back he turned away and refused to talk to me (choosing the PC instead) and that was common theme in our relationship. The next week or so was crazy he wanted to be left alone to think, I wanted to talk and sort it and I wanted either to sort it out or brake up. So I went over to his place (I had moved out months earlier) and we broke up.
I handled it really poorly, basically had an internal meltdown, couldn't sleep or think straight, felt despair, had a physical injury from our sexual habbits (anal lesion) that required medical attention and I was so embarrassed so I left it for a week and it got infected, started to get really weird, scary, intense, flashbacks of my kidnapping (when I was awake!) and I eventually had a panic attack (in public no less!) that left me in hospital for a weekend.
I called my ex of 2 years, after I got out of hospital just for a chat to calm my head (I really loved him and he had a way of working with me to calm my breathing that was magical, I'm asthmatic and find it hard to breath when crying...) and I wanted to see if I could salvage, at the very least, a friendship from the wreckage, only to find out, he is now back with the girl that started our relationship demise...needless to say I hit rock bottom!
So I took sometime off work, slept for a few days, ate everything in sight and cried loads, and wrote a list of things to do, and started a plan to bet this crappy situation.
I went to a therapist to talk about my kidnapping and abusive relationship, also to speak about my temper and to see if I was abusive in the relationship (my ex used to accuse me of being abusive for wanting to discuss things face to face and wanting to resolve issues instead of letting them linger and fester for weeks as he wanted. Also I slapped him once for trying to kiss me after we had broken up (I think that is the worst thing I have ever done in my life!)
I re-enrolled in uni. I changed my life to reflect my new single status, planned my next holiday, cleaned out my apartment and I kept busy!
October 16th I got an email from the guy I dated in 2003, wanting to know how I am and am I free to catch up, I ignore him, feeling shitty about my brake up and like I had lost my true love and life as I know it is over... a few weeks later he emails again, asking if I'm getting the emails, he's had no bounce back and wants to meet up.
So I meet up with him and I burst in to tears, I explain everything in great detail over hours and hours of conversation, we spend the entire weekend together, he tells me of his life and how the central theme has been ways in which he misses me, compares others to me and can't forget how cute, loving and nice my lips are....fast forward to now....
We have been on several dates, we have picked up where we left off basically, he makes me laugh, we are falling in love!
the 11th of November my ex starts emailing me about nonsense stuff...I tell current boy I'm messed up about it, the ex makes me sad, I cry and explained my love and how I felt for sure he was the one and that we spoke of marriage and kids (little girl called lorna, and how he would look after her while I went of to work even if they sat under pizza boxes waiting for me...) I'm crying as I right this!
Monday out of the blue, current boy asks me to marry him, says the day he let me walk out of his life was the biggest mistake of his life, he says he knows where i'm at, wants to work through my issues as a team and wants us to get married, travel, have babies and start our life together. he says I'm his one...
Without a doubt , he proposed in the most romantic way, the ring is lovely (could not have picked better myself) I feel I want kids, I want a wedding and I REALLY want to be happy and have the dream...
I know my ex was not good for me, and I'm sure I'm thinking about him only because of the emails, but in the back of my mind I'm worried, is this a bounce back relationship?!? What if I am about to make a mistake, what if I am making a mistake by not taking the chance, am I rushing things...Am I ready for this after everything I have been though (i'm still getting emails and shit from my most recent ex and I had not planed on this...)
I'm all kinds of fucked up, please advise!
Shoes are better than sex...almost!
"So alternate, against the grain, anti establishment - so you're just a regular joe again, right?"
"So alternate, against the grain, anti establishment - so you're just a regular joe again, right?"
RallyGirl76 on
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You need to heal first before making any big, life changing, radical decisions like this, and if he loves you he'll understand that. You'll have all the time in the world to fall in love with him again, and with time, you'll be able to put your doubts to rest.
Getting married is something that should make you happy, not confused and stressed out and worried. I would tell him what you said here. That the proposal was very sweet and romantic, that you do feel that you're falling for him again, but you need more time so that you can get used to things how they are now and be happy and excited about a marriage without all this recent baggage weighing on your mind.
If you don't mind not being surprised(again), why don't you just ask him if you guys can talk about marriage again in one year? That's not really that long of time...and you know, there's nothing that says relationships are serious and committed without that piece of paper and ceremony. If you're confused now about the EX, marriage isn't going to make those feelings go away.
Why not take things in steps? Say, now you guys could enroll in a class together or volunteer somewhere. If things are going well in a couple of months you might want to start thinking of moving in together.
Oh, and whatever you do, don't go back to your Ex.
see this bit right here? it's your answer
you very obviously do not want to be married to THIS GUY
what you want is simply to be married, at all... to not be alone
that alone is a red flag that you should not do this
on top of that you are not over your ex and you have obviously not reconnected with this current guy
none of these point to marriage as the next step
take it slow, you have a lot of shit on your shoulders that you will need time to lighten... definitely consider being single, too (it sucks to hear but some things are harder to get through if you also have a relationship to muddy through at the same time)
and in the future if a proposition pops up again, make sure that the question you ask yourself is "do I want to marry this man and spend the rest of my life and build a family with him?" and not simply "do I want I to get married?"
Are you still seeing a therapist? If not, start up again immediately. You clearly haven't fully dealt with the issues stemming from your past trauma (I'm so sorry you had to go through that, by the way) and now you're reaching desperately for a symbol of stability. Unfortunately, getting married doesn't make a stable relationship or even a stable life; you absolutely have to have those things first.
Tell your boy to keep the ring; he may not get to give it to you, but it was a sweet (if extremely misguided) gesture. Date him very casually for a long time, at least until you can think about your most-recent ex calmly. Someone who's still bursting into tears over her last relationship shouldn't be getting into new relationships yet. Don't allow your feelings of romanticism to pressure you into making a mistake.
Also, I think you should be seeking out some new friendships. It seems like the people you've been around lately have been exceedingly dramatic, and that's the last thing you need right now. Make some good, solid friends who don't pressure you to make life-altering decisions. Who knows, maybe you could even travel with them some, huh?
More to the subject, NO. Do not marry somebody just for the sake of getting married.
Unless you meant to add WITH HIM at the end of that sentence, please do not get married. It's not fair to him that he's just filling a placeholder in your dream life. All those reasons you listed are completely the wrong reasons unless you want to spend the rest of your life with this guy.
You should feel completely in your rights to ask if he'll ask again later down the line so that you have time to take care of your issues, and so that you can finish determining if you're still compatible with each other. Also, you're going to change when you get over your ex, and although it will undoubtedly be for the better, there's still a chance that it will change the dynamics of this relationship. You don't want to be tying yourself to a constant when you're still so variable.
And gently explain to this current guy. Your first meet up in years started off with you crying and having a venting session about how bad things have been.
Then you say "I tell current boy I'm messed up about it, the ex makes me sad, I cry and explained my love and how I felt for sure he was the one and that we spoke of marriage and kids (little girl called lorna, and how he would look after her while I went of to work even if they sat under pizza boxes waiting for me...) I'm crying as I right this!"
and...."Monday out of the blue, current boy asks me to marry him"
What is the lapse in time from your explaining your lost dreams of marriage and kids to his proposal? His love may be true, but his judgment is poor. You go several episodes of crying about the ex and clearly not emotionally not over it yet to this current guy and his reaction is marriage proposal??? Where is his head at? You are seemingly not over this breakup yet and not emotionally stable yet. It would be a poor decision on both of your parts to jump into marriage right now. Give it more time, you both should be in a healthy, happy state of mind for a decent amount of time to be sure you are over these current issues before the marriage idea should be revisted.
Good luck and I hope everything works out for you.
Steam
XBOX
This so hard.
Be fair to the current guy, tell him you need time and some stability (in your own head) first. Give it a year?
And slow down! A marriage that lasts is not all about passion and "being in love", because those things will come and go. You need something else to sustain you while they are not around. Physician, heal thyself first. See a couple shrinks, go see a relationship counselor, and give it some time.
Good luck!!!
Marriage is just a condition, a situation. It doesn't fix things, it doesn't make people automatically happy. It doesn't let you be fertile nor magically good parents. Everything that happens in a marriage can happen in a serious relationship. It adds a level of permanence to the situation, yes, but I think that's what you're latching on to. You just want to get it over with.
There's nothing wrong with speedy marriages or short engagements. I know plenty of people who are happily married yet only dated for a few months. Of course, I also know plenty of divorced people who have done the same.
Marriage doesn't make you happy -- the relationship does.
Also, as perfect and romantic as his proposal was I am worried it's too much about hanging onto you, which just doesn't sit right with me. The primary reason for asking someone to marry you shouldn't be because you're worried they might leave you.
xbl - HowYouGetAnts
steam - WeAreAllGeth
This, a thousand times over.
Marriage wont magically 'lock in' a set of feelings, maybe make sure you are capable of having a steady relationship before you make a legal vow to do so. Intentions are not in any way an indicator of ability.
Don't just do it cos you want to be married; its about commitment to each other, not about how you feel right now.
Give yourself time to get through the things that have happened to you, you need time to heal from them, don't set yourself up to have a harder time of your life than you need to.
For paintings in progress, check out canvas and paints
"The power of the weirdness compels me."
I'd suggest a small wedding nothing too grand as it eats up the wallet book and isn't necessary if you truely love each other.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Please do not listen to this advice. I doubt he's even being serious.
Marriage love is not the same thing as head over heels dating relationship love. It's day in and day out, it's a huge commitment, and it requires a lot of effort. It's not something that can be carried purely by emotion, especially reliance on such strong, periodic emotion as "head over heels in love". That kind of love? Yeah, it fades. Trust me.
When you get married to someone, yeah, you should love them romantically, but it's just as important that you be great friends with them--best friends, even. You have to be willing to put up with more shit from your spouse than anyone in the world.
I know that's not really the question you were asking, but I think it's something important that people need to realize before they get married. Relying on being "in love" is a fast track to divorce.
And it sounds like you have an idea of what you want from a guy.
I'd say give it time. Right now, if you're asking yourself "is this the right thing to do" especially with something as serious as marriage, I don't think that it's the right thing.
When you say yes to a proposal, it should be, without a doubt, yes.
You date a person for a while before deciding whether you'll marry or not because marriage is the sort of you thing you want to be permanent, and so you date until you feel reasonably sure it will be. This all sounds logical, until you throw in the weird notion that somehow relationships are supposed to change once you're married. That's... bizarre. The concept of marrying is saying, "I really love YOU, and want to spend the rest of my life in a relationship like this one", so why would you go and change it as soon as you sign some piece of paper?
So therefore, why get married out of nowhere? What's the immediacy if the relationship should remain the same before and after marriage? You can date as if you were married, or be married as if you were dating, a piece of paper changes nothing so don't just rush into this.
This is why it's so important to live together before you get married. It's a terrible idea to make a binding legal arrangement with someone before you know if their habit of, say, drinking out of the milk jug is going to drive you insane.
This.
What the hell people? Why on Earth would it seem like a good idea to combine a potential major relationship changer with an agreement to stay together forever? That's like buying a goldfish, owning it for a couple years, and then using that experience as your basis for whether you should take a 30 year lease on a pet elephant.
I disagree, but this forum is not really the place for that discussion, so I'll just leave it at that.
Oh come on, we tire of the usual PA-pander, I'd love to hear the rationale against living together prior to marriage from someone who doesn't just get all red-faced, yell "CUZ GOD SAYS SO" and then crush a beer can on their forehead.
I do mean that in all sincerity, it's tough to be in the minority point of view on a forum like this, but waiting for different perspectives to emerge is the only real reason I visit the forums. Why would I want to just read what I already think?
Just so this doesn't turn into a "but sex before marriage is bad!" thread, note that you can, in fact, live together before marriage without having sex before marriage if you so desire. Two-bedroom apartments do exist.
Anyway, I do see this attitude as tying into the OP's issue. The whole idea of marriage as "and now we merge our formerly-separate lives into one" may be romantic, but it's also pretty ridiculous. If you're getting married, you should ALREADY have combined your lives as much as you're going to. The wedding is just a party to celebrate what you've already decided: that you want to spend the rest of your life with that person. The person you marry should be your best friend and partner as much or more than they are your True Love, because that feeling of head-over-heels isn't going to be a constant.
My dad likes to refer to being married to my mom as being two dogs pulling the same sled: sometimes they snap at each other, but they're on the same team and working together. It isn't always romantic, but they've been together for (I think) 28 years and still love and support each other, so I'd say they're doing something right.
"Should I get married right now??"
"No, you haven't lived together."
"Living together isn't a pre-requisite."
"O RLY??" <-- The stage we're at now.
Second, marriage is a commitment, and that's it. It's not an invitation for a new adventure. The adventure starts whenever you ask someone out, and continues as you choose to create adventures and grow closer to one another, allowing new adventures (such as living together or owning a pet or something).
It simply doesn't make sense to merge the concept of marriage with something that opposes it. Moving in with one another is an adventure that can bring a couple closer together or tear them apart as the couple tries something new. That's uncertainty right there. Marriage is a commitment to be with a person for a very long time because you like who they are right now.
Do you see how adding uncertainty to a commitment based around sticking-around-forever seems kind of counter-productive?
Or for that matter, how adding change-in-the-relationship to the implicit statement in marriage of "I love who you are and the type of relationship we have right now" seems kind of counter-productive?
They just don't flow very well, what with the goals and effects not syncing up at all.
When you move in with someone, there's going to be a period of adjustment no matter what. I can't imagine a person who wouldn't annoy you with some of their habits. There's a give-and-take that happens in that kind of relationship--a willingness on behalf of both parties to compromise. It's something that you have to make work.
If there's a downside to living together before married (and again, I'm not saying it's a bad idea, and I'm not saying you shouldn't), it's that it can lead to indecision that results in never really making a commitment to someone. It's trial mode, it's not for real, so you can let yourself get annoyed by things that you could probably actually figure out together if you had to; instead, you convince yourself that it's not worth bothering with. Our culture is very instant gratification and lazy, especially when it comes to our personal lives and what we do with our free time. If you really want marriage, at some point you have to be willing to deal with the bad that comes with the good.
But again, I don't think it's wrong or a bad idea to move in together before getting married... it's situational. In the OP's case? Maybe you're right, it sounds like they're moving fast, and how well do they really know each other? Whether they move in together or not, it sounds like they should take a little more time to find out if they're really sure. In my case, I felt like I knew my wife well enough to commit--we'd been together over two years and had an unusually open and honest relationship. Although our relationship had to change and adjust to living together, I don't feel like there have been any big surprises, and we've dealt with what difficulties we have had.
Most of you are echoing what is running through my own mind, so thanks for the clarifications and your thoughts. When you have had so much drama, it’s hard to hear yourself think and trust it. It's so good to have an opinion from people less close to the situation and less judgemental.
So, last night I spoke to current boy and explained I need some down time, time to heal, time alone, time to get over it all, I also thanked him and told him I would be honoured to be his wife one day, but I'm simply not in the head space for it right now...I told him he was like all my dreams come true at once, but it's just a timing issue.
Not only cause of my ex messing with my head and braking my heart entirely, but because I have ignored my issues for so many years, that now is the time I have to deal with it, I have to face it (alone) unfortunately, but if I don't I will bury it again and it will haunt me for life (I can't accept that and do not want that!)
On Friday my ex emailed (again) with some nonsense about "are we concluded", "keep my books" "no, send my books back" so I called and ask what it is he really wants, he said just the books and was so angry.
So I sent an email asking him to never contact me again about our well and truly over relationship (I was nice but VERY clear this time.) During our relationship when he yelled or was mean or cold I would have froze and not been able to communicate. I’m stronger now, so I was calm and clear.
I explained that it really affects me for hours after emailing or talking to him and I can’t have it anymore.
Basically I can't function, can't eat, don't feel like talking to anyone, feel upset, cry and re-live what went wrong to make us so angry with each other, he really was my best friend, I wanted the dream with him and I did love him (I did not say that though in my email.)
And as you guys say that is key to a good relationship, to be friends first, so I want to be mates with current boy. Plus I realise, I'm falling in love with the things happening in my new relationship, but not really allowing myself to fall entirely for the boy for fear, fear of getting hurt, fear of being alone and fear of making a monumental mistake, but I know in my heart I miss my ex still and that is not fair to current boy at all.
I explained to current boy it's not fair on him or me to short-change my grieving over the end of a very significant relationship with my ex. I feel I communicated well and explained to him it was a lovely idea and encouraged a revisit of the topic later on.
But essentially I think we broke up last night for now...for him finding me again was his goal and having me close was he's dream and I have rejected part of our relationship that he has wanted for years and to him the fact that I need to mourn for something he feels was not valid, not real love at all and was all kinds of fucked up mistreatment, is offensive to him as he really loves me.
And I totally understand that...so I think I have the space I need now covered.. But I have hurt an innocent party in the process and have essentially been dumped twice in less then two months by men I really do love…
And I know, if he was right, he would understand and would wait for me to catch up!
"So alternate, against the grain, anti establishment - so you're just a regular joe again, right?"
Look, if you weren't ready, you would have ended up hurting him a hell of a lot worse later. It's one thing to delay a potential marriage, and it's another thing entirely to end up divorcing someone because you rushed things. One has further options, and the other is just a complete disaster.
It sounds like he was more interested in the idea of getting back together with you than the reality of who you are and what you need. It doesn't matter if what you had with your ex was "real love" or not; if you need time to mourn, he ought to respect that. The fact that he doesn't shows a tremendous amount of callousness about your feelings.
You haven't hurt an innocent party. You treated him very well, considering that you're in a very mixed-up emotional state. He chose to reject the real, complicated you with your own needs in favor of being butthurt that you're not his Dream Princess.
Maybe someday he'll grow up. For right now, though, you're well rid of him.