The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.

a

GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
edited August 2017 in Debate and/or Discourse
.

GPIA7R on
«1

Posts

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    ...that's not how foreign policy works.

    moniker on
  • ChenChen Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I think you've played too much Command & Conquer.

    Chen on
    V0Gug2h.png
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    GWB has spent the last 8 years pissing Russia off at every opportunity. Perhaps things will improve once he's out of office.

    nexuscrawler on
  • GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    .

    GPIA7R on
  • Dunadan019Dunadan019 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    GWB has spent the last 8 years pissing Russia off at every opportunity. Perhaps things will improve once he's out of office.

    all of our presidents have a history of pissing off russia....

    Dunadan019 on
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    emnmnme on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    GWB has spent the last 8 years pissing Russia off at every opportunity. Perhaps things will improve once he's out of office.

    all of our presidents have a history of pissing off russia....

    TR got along with them fine. Saved their ass from Japan.

    moniker on
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Bush has taken it to a new level: Trying to expand NATO into former Soviet countries, Missile defense systems in Eastern Europe, cockwaving over Iraq, turning Putin into a bogeyman etc etc

    nexuscrawler on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    I believe if it came down to it, and we screwed up with Russia in a major way... most of the world would side with them as a chance to "finally get rid of America." I think we wouldn't stand a chance against them, and that's what scares me. I would love to hear from a Russian citizen (alternatively, any of you), rather than the media, of what they believe Russia's view/relationship with the US is. Something like that would make me feel calmer/better about the situation...

    ITT: We confuse foreign relations with WWE RAW.

    ElJeffe on
    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    .

    GPIA7R on
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    edited November 2008
    Bush has taken it to a new level: Trying to expand NATO into former Soviet countries, Missile defense systems in Eastern Europe, cockwaving over Iraq, turning Putin into a bogeyman etc etc

    It's hardly a new level, unless you're only counting US-Russian relations since Gorbachev.

    Bogart on
  • FunkyWaltDoggFunkyWaltDogg Columbia, SCRegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    I believe if it came down to it, and we screwed up with Russia in a major way... most of the world would side with them as a chance to "finally get rid of America." I think we wouldn't stand a chance against them, and that's what scares me. I would love to hear from a Russian citizen (alternatively, any of you), rather than the media, of what they believe Russia's view/relationship with the US is. Something like that would make me feel calmer/better about the situation...

    ITT: We confuse foreign relations with WWE RAW.

    Personally I think we should pick teams for World War III like in kickball. US and Russia are team captains.

    USA: "Okay, we'll take the UK."
    Russia: "Then we've got China."
    USA: "Maaaaaaaaaan, I wanted China!"

    FunkyWaltDogg on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    GWB has spent the last 8 years pissing Russia off at every opportunity. Perhaps things will improve once he's out of office.

    all of our presidents have a history of pissing off russia....

    TR got along with them fine. Saved their ass from Japan.

    Is there any good way to go about mutual-nuclear relationships? Can we be friends, and still let each other make nukes? Correction... let them... because I doubt America would let anyone tell us what to do -_-

    I almost want to move somewhere else... I think I'd actually feel safer.

    ...we're both reducing our nuclear arsenals thanks to several treaties that have existed for decades. We're down to 'only' ~20k total warheads in existence right now. Though Russia is dragging its feet more so than the Pentagon. Not that it really matters since that's still plenty to destroy civilization as we know it, but still.

    moniker on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    Russia nuking us is about #391 on the list of things likely to happen to us if we piss them off. Be more concerned about them trying to re-establish the USSR, or fucking with oil pipelines. Maybe financing groups that don't like us.

    ElJeffe on
    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    I believe if it came down to it, and we screwed up with Russia in a major way... most of the world would side with them as a chance to "finally get rid of America." I think we wouldn't stand a chance against them, and that's what scares me. I would love to hear from a Russian citizen (alternatively, any of you), rather than the media, of what they believe Russia's view/relationship with the US is. Something like that would make me feel calmer/better about the situation...

    ITT: We confuse foreign relations with WWE RAW.

    Personally I think we should pick teams for World War III like in kickball. US and Russia are team captains.

    USA: "Okay, we'll take the UK."
    Russia: "Then we've got China."
    USA: "Maaaaaaaaaan, I wanted China!"

    But then poor Poland would be last. Everyone always forgets Poland.

    ElJeffe on
    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    .

    GPIA7R on
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    edited November 2008
    Personally I think we should pick teams for World War III like in kickball. US and Russia are team captains.

    USA: "Okay, we'll take the UK."
    Russia: "Then we've got China."
    USA: "Maaaaaaaaaan, I wanted China!"

    But which country is the tubby kid with bottle glasses and flaky skin that is always picked last?

    EDIT: It wouldn't be Poland. Luxemborg maybe. No wait, the Vatican.

    Bogart on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Russia nuking us is about #391 on the list of things likely to happen to us if we piss them off. Be more concerned about them trying to re-establish the USSR, or fucking with oil pipelines. Maybe financing groups that don't like us.

    More Imperial/Autocratic Russia than the USSR it seems. I'm pretty sure that Putin would rather be a Tsar than a Premier.

    moniker on
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    Since we're so close to Russia... why not combine into a single "super-continent"... annexing the willing Canada in the process. We'd be one giant united entity...

    ... One can dream.

    What are you, 6?

    moniker on
  • HeartlashHeartlash Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Bush has taken it to a new level: Trying to expand NATO into former Soviet countries, Missile defense systems in Eastern Europe, cockwaving over Iraq, turning Putin into a bogeyman etc etc

    ...but Putin is an asshole. Just look at the Litvinenko case, or the recent Russian "election", or Georgia, or the authoritarian regression, or the constant dick wagging.

    And if former Soviet countries want to join NATO, are you saying they shouldn't be allowed to?

    Heartlash on
    My indie mobile gaming studio: Elder Aeons
    Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    moniker wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Russia nuking us is about #391 on the list of things likely to happen to us if we piss them off. Be more concerned about them trying to re-establish the USSR, or fucking with oil pipelines. Maybe financing groups that don't like us.

    More Imperial/Autocratic Russia than the USSR it seems. I'm pretty sure that Putin would rather be a Tsar than a Premier.

    Well, yeah. But basically Putin wants him some land.

    ElJeffe on
    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    .

    GPIA7R on
  • MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    I believe if it came down to it, and we screwed up with Russia in a major way... most of the world would side with them as a chance to "finally get rid of America." I think we wouldn't stand a chance against them, and that's what scares me. I would love to hear from a Russian citizen (alternatively, any of you), rather than the media, of what they believe Russia's view/relationship with the US is. Something like that would make me feel calmer/better about the situation...

    ITT: We confuse foreign relations with WWE RAW.

    Personally I think we should pick teams for World War III like in kickball. US and Russia are team captains.

    USA: "Okay, we'll take the UK."
    Russia: "Then we've got China."
    USA: "Maaaaaaaaaan, I wanted China!"

    Just make sure we get Canada and Mexico. The 5 extra reinforcements per round help out a lot.

    MagicPrime on
    BNet • magicprime#1430 | PSN/Steam • MagicPrime | Origin • FireSideWizard
    Critical Failures - Havenhold CampaignAugust St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
  • HeartlashHeartlash Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Russia nuking us is about #391 on the list of things likely to happen to us if we piss them off. Be more concerned about them trying to re-establish the USSR, or fucking with oil pipelines. Maybe financing groups that don't like us.

    More Imperial/Autocratic Russia than the USSR it seems. I'm pretty sure that Putin would rather be a Tsar than a Premier.

    Then please explain, what's the problem with them running their country how they like? Putin has great approval ratings, let them be happy? I can clearly see his manipulation of the government in Russia, a child could see that....

    .... But if it isn't hurting us, why interfere?

    Um, we aren't interfering with any of that?

    Heartlash on
    My indie mobile gaming studio: Elder Aeons
    Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Russia nuking us is about #391 on the list of things likely to happen to us if we piss them off. Be more concerned about them trying to re-establish the USSR, or fucking with oil pipelines. Maybe financing groups that don't like us.

    More Imperial/Autocratic Russia than the USSR it seems. I'm pretty sure that Putin would rather be a Tsar than a Premier.

    Then please explain, what's the problem with them running their country how they like? Putin has great approval ratings, let them be happy? I can clearly see his manipulation of the government in Russia, a child could see that....

    .... But if it isn't hurting us, why interfere?

    Because it is hurting us.

    moniker on
  • ChenChen Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I suppose installing missile systems 1,000 miles from Moscow, stating it is used to counter potential threats from Iran and North Korea, which are several thousands of miles away, while you have several dozen missile systems in Alaska, isn't very convincing to the Russians.

    Chen on
    V0Gug2h.png
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    they have too much military power and too much oil to be safely ignored.

    nexuscrawler on
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    I believe if it came down to it, and we screwed up with Russia in a major way... most of the world would side with them as a chance to "finally get rid of America." I think we wouldn't stand a chance against them, and that's what scares me. I would love to hear from a Russian citizen (alternatively, any of you), rather than the media, of what they believe Russia's view/relationship with the US is. Something like that would make me feel calmer/better about the situation...

    ITT: We confuse foreign relations with WWE RAW.
    Look out, Korea's got a chair!

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    This thread really makes me want to play RISK...

    MagicPrime on
    BNet • magicprime#1430 | PSN/Steam • MagicPrime | Origin • FireSideWizard
    Critical Failures - Havenhold CampaignAugust St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Friendly relations between Russia and America is a myth, largely because of competing interests. It ain't gonna happen, and nor should it.

    oldmanken on
  • Ethan SmithEthan Smith Origin name: Beart4to Arlington, VARegistered User regular
    edited November 2008
    A problem most younger nerds I've met have is that a lot of us read Tom Clancy or sci-fi novels or played CoD4 or Command and Conquer.

    A lot of us, at earlier ages, and if we're ignorant enough, at later ages, mistake the books we kinda want to be real with reality. This is where you get people obsessed with "OMG BUT WW3 WILL HAPPEN THEN!" No, it won't.

    I will eat my own dick, with extra dick sauce, if WW3 ever occurs within our parents lifetimes. We'd need to find some way to stop nuclear weapons from killing everyone, because that's what would occur if we had a world war. At the very least, a couple major cities would go down, and no one wants that to happen.

    Ethan Smith on
  • Ebz123Ebz123 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I believe if it came down to it, and we screwed up with Russia in a major way... most of the world would side with them as a chance to "finally get rid of America."

    No.

    Because, just, no.

    Nobody really wants to get rid off America. No-one really wants a world war. Look at China and India. See how prosperous they're becoming, why would they risk that in order to get involved with an apocalyptic war?

    Russia and the USA spent forty years building up vast stockpiles of horrifyingly destructive weapons yet never engaged in a direct, conventional fight for fear of what might happen as a result.

    Russia is a threat to its small neighbours, and to Western European economies because of its control of energy. But at the end of the day oil reserves are worth squat if you have no one to sell them to.
    ...that's not how foreign policy works

    Ebz123 on
  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Heartlash wrote: »
    Bush has taken it to a new level: Trying to expand NATO into former Soviet countries, Missile defense systems in Eastern Europe, cockwaving over Iraq, turning Putin into a bogeyman etc etc

    ...but Putin is an asshole. Just look at the Litvinenko case, or the recent Russian "election", or Georgia, or the authoritarian regression, or the constant dick wagging.

    And if former Soviet countries want to join NATO, are you saying they shouldn't be allowed to?

    They should be allowed too, but Russia getting pissed/worried about the alliance specificly formed to combat them gaining new members right on their border is understandable. Thus NATO should let the countries join but some how bribe/compensate/assuage the fears of Russia in some way. What that way is I don't know but it probably should be more than the American government going "trust us, we're the good guys!".
    Ebz123 wrote: »
    Russia is a threat to its small neighbours, and to Western European economies because of its control of energy. But at the end of the day oil reserves are worth squat if you have no one to sell them to.

    @The OP: and thus a threat to America due to western europe being huge trading partners, and Russia cutting off the energy supply raising global prices due to our fun friend fungibility.

    Dis' on
  • Ebz123Ebz123 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    To clarify, I'm not saying Russia isn't a threat to American interests. But it's not an existential threat to America itself.

    Ebz123 on
  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    Ebz123 wrote: »
    To clarify, I'm not saying Russia isn't a threat to American interests. But it's not an existential threat to America itself.

    I would disagree with that. If something is a threat to a states interests, it is a threat to the state itself.

    oldmanken on
  • GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    .

    GPIA7R on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2008
    oldmanken wrote: »
    Ebz123 wrote: »
    To clarify, I'm not saying Russia isn't a threat to American interests. But it's not an existential threat to America itself.

    I would disagree with that. If something is a threat to a states interests, it is a threat to the state itself.

    Umm... no. If you and I are competing to purchase something at an auction, it doesn't mean you endanger my very existence. Which is what's meant by "existential threat".

    ElJeffe on
    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • Ebz123Ebz123 Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    oldmanken wrote: »
    Ebz123 wrote: »
    To clarify, I'm not saying Russia isn't a threat to American interests. But it's not an existential threat to America itself.

    I would disagree with that. If something is a threat to a states interests, it is a threat to the state itself.

    That is a good point, however I don't think Russia would screw up Western Europe enough to damage America that much because it would also be ruinous to Russia itself.

    Ebz123 on
  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    oldmanken wrote: »
    Ebz123 wrote: »
    To clarify, I'm not saying Russia isn't a threat to American interests. But it's not an existential threat to America itself.

    I would disagree with that. If something is a threat to a states interests, it is a threat to the state itself.

    Perhaps, but on the percieved national threat scale I'd say:

    NATO bordering Russia and thus being able to act at will (which is how it'll be sold by Russian politicans) > Americans paying more for fuel.

    Personnally I'm less worried by Putin (as the guy seems pretty sharp) than by someone with a screw loose twenty years from now inheriting the consolidated executive power he's built.

    Dis' on
  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    edited November 2008
    I didn't really mean that it would be an existential threat, though I see that I misread Ebz post.

    oldmanken on
Sign In or Register to comment.