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Dark Tower Series (for stephen king readers)
isaac17
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Hey guys,
This may not be the crowd to ask, but I thought I'd give it a shot anyway.
Around 6 months ago I asked for advice here in finding an epic book series, and the Dark Tower series came highly recommended. Read the first book and loved it. Half way through the second, I had a big change in life direction, and a religious reawakening that made me put the second book down. My problems with it were twofold:
-The language in the second book is pretty bad (during the second door, the black chick... Odetta that swears up a storm), normally I wouldn't care, but extreme language bothers me of late. I can read like... Steinbeck, or books with the occasional language, a few damns and hells or whatnot, but stephen king isn't exactly known for that. Does it calm down after this part, or is it still pretty explicit?
-The first book had some sexual parts, the oracle part didn't bug me, but sleeping with the innkeeper lady (can't remember her name) was outside my comfort zone. Is that a common theme or does that disappear?
Should I proceed reading it, or am I best looking other places? If it stays this explicit consistently, I'll drop it, but I don't want to quit if it cleans up later. I stopped reading A Song of Ice and Fire, so I'm feeling a loss of epic fantasy for me. Any other clean epic fantasy series recommendations?
Also, for other stephen king fans, are there any books that are pretty clean by him? I really love his work, but priorities, it has to be clean.
Thanks guys
This may not be the crowd to ask, but I thought I'd give it a shot anyway.
Around 6 months ago I asked for advice here in finding an epic book series, and the Dark Tower series came highly recommended. Read the first book and loved it. Half way through the second, I had a big change in life direction, and a religious reawakening that made me put the second book down. My problems with it were twofold:
-The language in the second book is pretty bad (during the second door, the black chick... Odetta that swears up a storm), normally I wouldn't care, but extreme language bothers me of late. I can read like... Steinbeck, or books with the occasional language, a few damns and hells or whatnot, but stephen king isn't exactly known for that. Does it calm down after this part, or is it still pretty explicit?
-The first book had some sexual parts, the oracle part didn't bug me, but sleeping with the innkeeper lady (can't remember her name) was outside my comfort zone. Is that a common theme or does that disappear?
Should I proceed reading it, or am I best looking other places? If it stays this explicit consistently, I'll drop it, but I don't want to quit if it cleans up later. I stopped reading A Song of Ice and Fire, so I'm feeling a loss of epic fantasy for me. Any other clean epic fantasy series recommendations?
Also, for other stephen king fans, are there any books that are pretty clean by him? I really love his work, but priorities, it has to be clean.
Thanks guys
isaac17 on
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There's always the Twilight books, they were written by a Mormon housewife so they're probably pretty "safe".:P
I'd suggest you stop if you aren't enjoying it.
While answering this post makes me kind of nauseous... here we go:
The swearing does calm down after the second book,
You may want to ask yourself why the swearing and sex bother you, but the rampant killing and bloodshed doesn't. Cause that's kind of fucked up.
You could always skip the page - it's usually less than a page or two when mentioned.
Also, to the OP I really think you should consider this. I understand not reading certain fiction based on religious beliefs, but I find it highly unlikely your religion is against sex and swearing but just fine with clowns killing children.
Honestly, though, you're going to have to realize at some point--as I did when I was younger, being raised by a strict Christian family--that these things are part of the world, and living in the world, you can't hide yourself from knowledge of them. Nor should you. What you can do is avoid seeking out things that glorify activities you consider immoral; this doesn't just go for religious people, but for anyone.
But there's a big difference between depicting something and glorifying it.
And also, if you're going to limit yourself to Left Behind, then yeah, you can stop right there with the Dark Tower. If I recall correctly, the first sentence of Wizard and Glass (Book 4) is "Fuck you."
There is sex and swearing and gore in pretty much everything King writes... however if you just take it at face value and don't try to see the undercurrents of how it affects the characters and the story, then you won't get any enjoyment out of his books.
Which is really a shame because he tells such great stories....and the DT series is just plain beautiful. (again, IMHO)
<--- note user name
I completely forgot about the violence, it was just brief, and it's been 6 months since I read them. DOES the rest of the series continue to be brutally violent?
I'm also aware that Stephen King isn't something I should be reading, I just really like his books and am curious if there are any cleaner books. I'm definitely not condemning anyone for reading his stuff, he's a phenomenal writer, I would never wish to push my ideals on others (especially when I don't know what my 'ideals' are yet). I really do enjoy reading the series, which is why I'm asking, but if it keeps consistently sexual, violent, and explicit in general, it's not worth it to me to read.
I grew up in a christian household, and then went completely off the deep end. I've grown up a lot since writing that post ^. I'm away at college and really trying my best to figure things out. I don't know what my stance is on things, I'm just taking things one at a time. Don't want to get too religious here, but basically I know I can't (and shouldn't) hide from things of the world. Especially as an English major, I have to be able to read literature without taking offense, but there IS a place to draw the line, I'm just trying to find where that is. This is honestly the thing I'm most confused about in life, where to draw the line with books, they're a HUGE part of my life, I read 600-1000 pages a week.
Again, thanks for trying to understand, and for all the advice.
To answer your question, yes... The DT is violent, brutal, and graphic. All necessary though. If you ever pick it back up and stick with it, I have no doubt you'll see and understand why.
Good luck working things out and making your way through literature.
If its that disturbing to you, yet you still want some King, pick up Eyes of the Dragon.
Why not try those "Left Behind" series of books? I think they're all epic and jesusy to boot.
chaucer? forget it, because of the wife of bath. victorian literature? hello, oscar wilde! what's that, twentieth century? angels in america? don't read that! stay away from streetcar named desire, too. that's a little embarassing.
hell, most classical sonnets are shoddily disguised metaphors for screwing anyway.
most of these aren't explicit to an extreme degree, but they are extremely dirty and shakespeare in particular spends a ton of time going wink wink nudge nudge.
to folk: remember 'the king's iron'?
There ARE, however, christian bookstores all over the place(at least here in Texas.) I have never been in one, so I don't know what they are like, but you should probably check one out - they probably have a lot of stuff you would like.
Though the books centered around the Night Watch seem to feature a lot more language than the others.
Funny you'd ask, I actually haven't read them since 6th grade (at which point I hardly understood them), so I picked them up a week ago. Finished the hobbit and in the Fellowship right now, so got that one covered. I'll also check the discworld series out, looks promising. A friend recommended the 'belgariad' series today, not sure if any of you have heard of it, but he said it was fantastic.
As far as morals go, a lot of it has to do with the message. It's not like every book I read has to be about Jesus (that... would suck), I just need to make sure I'm not compromising standards. For example, I read 'Of Mice and Men' today. I would call it mildly to moderately profane, a few sexual references, very slightly violent, etc. But would I think twice about reading it again? Absolutely not, it was phenomenal, the message was profound. I definitely learned from it and walked away a better person. A lot books end up being that way.
I'm just seeing that sometimes the end doesn't justify the means. I think I'll put away the Dark Tower for now, give Stephen King a rest. I'll come back to it if I feel right about it later, but for now there's plenty to read outside of that.
So thanks for the info on later Dark Tower books, and if you have other recommendations, do tell.
There is a definite logical disconnect here. As another poster noted, words are simply a vehicle to convey an idea.
Think about it like this. You, as a reader, have a window into the lives of these characters. For good or bad they are who they are.
In the case of the Dark Tower (and really every other story) what makes the characters interesting is their flaws. Yes, we all know the habits they portray are wrong but a journey can't take place if everyone in every story starts out perfect.
Steven King nailed him characters in DT BECAUSE they are profane, BECAUSE they exhibit less then desirable traits. Just because you read about them doesn't mean you have to emulate them.
edit numero 2: Take a look at the Bible. Jesus specifically looked for flawed people to be his disciples. Without flaws theres nothing to work on...
Embrace character because they are flawed and you will find relevance in stories you never thought was there.
edit: Try "A Fire upon the Deep" by Vernor Vinge
And we are saying(or at least I am) he might want to reconsider his evaluation for what is and isn't worth reading.
That's hardly the point. DT isn't about "underaged brothers getting it on" anymore then the bible is about preteens slaughtering 12 foot tall giants or guys being crucified. Closing your eyes and going LALALALA to everything you perceive to be evil is a one stop ticket to missing a ton of great things in both life and literature for the reasons I stated above.
However, I hardly think I'm closing my eyes and going 'LALALA'. I read two of the books, gave it a valid chance, but in the end I didn't see enough of a positive message (other than being an incredible piece of fiction) to justify it, and I'm looking elsewhere.
I don't know how you get more positive then that.
But then, you don't know that because you stopped reading, not because of the story, or writing, but because it has naughty words. The fact that a person can consciously do this amazes and frightens me. But I guess it explains a lot about a significant population of our society.
I listen to the weirdest fucking shit you could possibly imagine. I've had seminar classes revolving around a guy in a gas mast yelling out the Gettysburg Address disjointently.
When I get home and turn on the radio, I listen to stuff I like. It's not always what I listen to for class. The weirdest I go for pleasure is Phillip Glass' Einstein on the Beach.
Art stuff and good popular stuff don't always overlap, and if I don't personally like something for whatever reason, that doesn't mean I don't respect it and can't see it for what it is and why it's good/popular. Fuck I can probably play the entirety of Spring Awakening on any instrument I play without ever seeing the sheet music even though I hate it and it's not academically stimulating music, but I can play it because I still listen to it because I can take something from it. It doesn't mean I have to like every piece of music, and it doesn't mean I have to like general characteristics of music, there's a disconnect between the stuff I enjoy personally and the stuff I enjoy academically.
That being said, isaac, I listen to stuff I consider the shittiest shit in the world. If I think something sucks ass, I'll listen to it fully and probably multiple times. Because I'm a good artist. You want to be an english major? Learn to separate yourself from what you're reading. Read the rest of the series. If you personally object to the language or subject, then go ahead and think that. But read it all. Read everything.
That said, do you ever stop to think that maybe God cares more about you being a good person, helping others, and spreading the word than he does about you reading expletives or sexual content in a book?
Furthermore, reading enriches you as a person. If you avoid certain works because they contain expletives or sexual content, you will be lesser for it and thus less apt to do the lord's work, whatever you may feel that is. Language is a means to convey ideas; ignoring those ideas because of the language used to convey them is just idiocy.
I'm sure you grew up in a very strict household. I'm sure you believe that avoiding "filth" somehow makes you a better person. However, I've always been one to believe that there is no easy path to righteousness. Minding your P's and Q's and avoiding the naughty bits of life and literature doesn't really cut it. In fact, in the face of the things some people do out of charity, it is immaterial.
If your into a religion that so tightly controls your life that you think you should only read books with obvious positive overtones, you’ve joined up with a cult. Stop closing up your mind for the sake of invisible men in the sky.