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Final Crisis and also how to fix DC Comics

Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeable regular
edited March 2009 in Graphic Violence
Since my old thread got locked, here's a new one!

I think Final Crisis was pretty good upon re-reading it, except for the last issue which was way out there!

Doug Mahnke's art in #7 was awesome (except for his weird eyes) and he should've done the whole thing

discuss

Garlic Bread on
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Posts

  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    K, so...

    Does Superman Beyond explain how Mandrakk got all evil? I know he was the original Monitor, but not much beyond (hah) that.

    Golden Yak on
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  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I'm excited that classic Aquaman is back, though I think it could have been done with a little more fanfare. Oh well, Blackest Night will hopefully have some Aquaman goodness.

    And Doug Mahnke needs to be put on something high-profile right away. Maybe Flash, once Van Sciver moves on. Or Robinson's Justice League.

    Really, just anything that doesn't suck and gives him the prestige he deserves.

    Munch on
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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I read 7 tonight. My plan tomorrow is to dig out 1-6 and read the whole thing in one sitting and see if that will help me make a bit more sense of it all.

    Oh, and I'm way excited that Barry Allen is back. Here's to hoping that Flash: Rebirth is as awesome as Green Lantern: Rebirth was.

    Lucascraft on
  • KyleWPetersonKyleWPeterson Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Issue seven sure makes you look at the first issue's cover in a different light...

    300px-Final_Crisis_Vol_1_1_002.jpg

    KyleWPeterson on
  • TairuTairu Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    KyleWPeterson wrote: »
    Issue seven sure makes you look at the first issue's cover in a different light...

    300px-Final_Crisis_Vol_1_1_002.jpg

    FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
    i'm surprised

    Tairu on
  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2009
    why so it does


    i really enjoyed 7. i picked up the two superman beyond issues as well, since everyone has been raving about them, but i haven't read them yet.

    my favorite parts of 7 were pretty much everything with superman. i think morrison writes superman and superman-related issues better than pretty much anyone around, case in point for example the revelation of superman's wish on the magic wish machine.

    Servo on
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  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Munch wrote: »
    And Doug Mahnke needs to be put on something high-profile right away. Maybe Flash, once Van Sciver moves on. Or Robinson's Justice League.

    Really, just anything that doesn't suck and gives him the prestige he deserves.
    Yeah, seriously, what has he been doing up until now?

    deadonthestreet on
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  • ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2009
    deadonthestreet wrote: »
    Munch wrote: »
    And Doug Mahnke needs to be put on something high-profile right away. Maybe Flash, once Van Sciver moves on. Or Robinson's Justice League.

    Really, just anything that doesn't suck and gives him the prestige he deserves.
    Yeah, seriously, what has he been doing up until now?

    the only big thing i've read that i can think of is the frankenstein arc of seven soldiers.

    oh and stormwatch p.d., a book of which i bought the first trade back when it came out and never got around to reading.

    Servo on
    newsigs.jpg
  • IrohIroh Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I just read this a few hours ago, and slept on it a bit in the literal sense. Flipping back through it right now, the only thing that seems lame is how Wonder Woman was so easily enslaved by anti-life, despite having the power to break it. That's a pretty minor gripe, all things considered.

    Iroh on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    could someone explain what happened to Batman?

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • IrohIroh Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    could someone explain what happened to Batman?
    The Omega Sanction pretty much puts people in a Sisyphus kind of situation. He didn't die so much as enter a cycle of torture.

    Iroh on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Iroh wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    could someone explain what happened to Batman?
    The Omega Sanction pretty much puts people in a Sisyphus kind of situation. He didn't die so much as enter a cycle of torture.

    so...
    what was the burned out husk Superman was lugging around?

    do I need to spoiler here?

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • Futt BuckerFutt Bucker CTRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    In case anyone is interested, the "unmonitored" earths at the end, 43 and 31, are the vampire universe and the god damned Millerverse.

    Futt Bucker on
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  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited January 2009
    Servo wrote: »
    deadonthestreet wrote: »
    Munch wrote: »
    And Doug Mahnke needs to be put on something high-profile right away. Maybe Flash, once Van Sciver moves on. Or Robinson's Justice League.

    Really, just anything that doesn't suck and gives him the prestige he deserves.
    Yeah, seriously, what has he been doing up until now?

    the only big thing i've read that i can think of is the frankenstein arc of seven soldiers.

    oh and stormwatch p.d., a book of which i bought the first trade back when it came out and never got around to reading.

    His art on Frankenstein was amazing. And also he is apparently some kind of freakish art chameleon. I read it and was like "man this guy is great, it's a shame this horror style would never work for a vanilla superhero book" and then Superman Beyond blew me away with how completely different (yet recognizable) it was.

    EDIT: and you will love Superman Beyond. It's a giant love letter to the guy.

    Jacobkosh on
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited January 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    Iroh wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    could someone explain what happened to Batman?
    The Omega Sanction pretty much puts people in a Sisyphus kind of situation. He didn't die so much as enter a cycle of torture.

    so...
    what was the burned out husk Superman was lugging around?

    do I need to spoiler here?
    Probably one of hundreds of dead Bat-clones.

    Jacobkosh on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    deadonthestreet wrote: »
    Yeah, seriously, what has he been doing up until now?

    Recently, he did Black Adam: The Dark Age, and Stormwatch PHD, as Servo mentioned. Before that, Frankenstein, Justice League Elite, a bunch of Superman, some JLA, Major Bummer, and tons of other stuff. He also mentored Green Lantern Corps' Patrick Gleason. The dude's been working steady for years, with good writers like Chris Gage and Peter Tomasi, and he always turns in great work.

    It just bugs me that guys like Ed Benes and Tony Daniels are working on top tier books, and in my opinion ruining them with their mediocrity, while Mahnke works on books that sell 30,000 copies or less.

    Munch on
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  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    So how did Batman
    end up in a rocketship [to the past]

    Like, ok, omega sanction or whatever, but a rocket?

    deadonthestreet on
    Twitter |
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited January 2009
    Munch wrote: »
    It just bugs me that guys like Ed Benes and Tony Daniels are working on top tier books, and in my opinion ruining them with their mediocrity, while Mahnke works on books that sell 30,000 copies or less.

    Yes. This. I literally cannot believe some of the stuff that gets touted as good art these days, and it's a crime that guys like Mahnke get ignored.

    Jacobkosh on
  • AlgertmanAlgertman Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    deadonthestreet wrote: »
    So how did Batman
    end up in a rocketship [to the past]

    Like, ok, omega sanction or whatever, but a rocket?

    Did you read the book?

    Algertman on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Algertman wrote: »
    deadonthestreet wrote: »
    So how did Batman
    end up in a rocketship [to the past]

    Like, ok, omega sanction or whatever, but a rocket?

    Did you read the book?

    Don't pull that shit... it didn't make sense to me either. Maybe you can explain it to us, without being a dick for once.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • AlgertmanAlgertman Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    Algertman wrote: »
    deadonthestreet wrote: »
    So how did Batman
    end up in a rocketship [to the past]

    Like, ok, omega sanction or whatever, but a rocket?

    Did you read the book?

    Don't pull that shit... it didn't make sense to me either. Maybe you can explain it to us, without being a dick for once.

    Nope.

    Algertman on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    The rocket ship is the time capsule containing the last issue of the Daily Planet and other stuff, isn't it?

    Robos A Go Go on
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  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Algertman wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Algertman wrote: »
    deadonthestreet wrote: »
    So how did Batman
    end up in a rocketship [to the past]

    Like, ok, omega sanction or whatever, but a rocket?

    Did you read the book?

    Don't pull that shit... it didn't make sense to me either. Maybe you can explain it to us, without being a dick for once.

    Nope.

    Didn't think so.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated NZRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Munch wrote: »
    deadonthestreet wrote: »
    Yeah, seriously, what has he been doing up until now?

    Recently, he did Black Adam: The Dark Age, and Stormwatch PHD, as Servo mentioned. Before that, Frankenstein, Justice League Elite, a bunch of Superman, some JLA, Major Bummer, and tons of other stuff. He also mentored Green Lantern Corps' Patrick Gleason. The dude's been working steady for years, with good writers like Chris Gage and Peter Tomasi, and he always turns in great work.

    It just bugs me that guys like Ed Benes and Tony Daniels are working on top tier books, and in my opinion ruining them with their mediocrity, while Mahnke works on books that sell 30,000 copies or less.

    Daniel isn't that bad, he's improved a lot since he started on Batman. Benes, yeah, what happened to him? I actually thought he was pretty good on Birds of Prey...

    Sentry:
    Did you see all that shit going on around Earth? That's why. Remember, Darkseid fell through time and space, making weeks feel like days. It's not that hard to guess that the rocket went through some sort of crack in time, landing in the past.

    As for his charred corpse, we'll probably find out when they eventually bring him back (or get Morrison to write a mini-series following him and his efforts to get back to the future). My guess is that that was actually his body but he only appeared dead. He then broke free of the Omega Sanction but by then, he'd already been shot into the past.

    Unco-ordinated on
    Steam ID - LiquidSolid170 | PSN ID - LiquidSolid
  • deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Robos A Go Go wrote: »
    The rocket ship is the time capsule containing the last issue of the Daily Planet and other stuff, isn't it?
    ...maybe?
    So it randomly landed on the same super past or maybe future as Omega'd Batman.

    Edit: oh I guess they could have put Batman's corpse in the time capsule...but that's kinda weird

    deadonthestreet on
    Twitter |
  • TairuTairu Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    Algertman wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Algertman wrote: »
    deadonthestreet wrote: »
    So how did Batman
    end up in a rocketship [to the past]

    Like, ok, omega sanction or whatever, but a rocket?

    Did you read the book?

    Don't pull that shit... it didn't make sense to me either. Maybe you can explain it to us, without being a dick for once.

    Nope.

    Didn't think so.
    From my understanding, and im not too good with multiversal logic and New God stuff, but the Omega Sanction would have put him through an eternity of terrible lives, which either he escaped with his Zur-En-Arrh persona, or he escaped when Darkseid died, or as shown in the Batman issues, every terrible experience only made him stronger. Anyhow, because these are gods and shits crazy, it sent him into the past, to witness the last days of Anthro. Then he the time capsule was sent back in time and Batman received it, probably read the newspaper and was inspired to do so and so.

    Tairu on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    deadonthestreet wrote: »
    Robos A Go Go wrote: »
    The rocket ship is the time capsule containing the last issue of the Daily Planet and other stuff, isn't it?
    ...maybe?
    So it randomly landed on the same super past or maybe future as Omega'd Batman.

    Edit: oh I guess they could have put Batman's corpse in the time capsule...but that's kinda weird
    If the Omega Sanction does what I think it does, then the two wouldn't have to happen to land in the same time period, against all odds. Rather, the rocket landed in that time and place and Batman, on his first or one trillion and first life as a victim of the Omega Sanction, managed to cross paths with it eventually.

    Really, if Batman is now functionally immortal and constantly moving from one place and time to the next, him meeting the rocket is inevitable.

    Robos A Go Go on
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  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Unco-ordinated wrote: »
    Munch wrote: »
    deadonthestreet wrote: »
    Yeah, seriously, what has he been doing up until now?

    Recently, he did Black Adam: The Dark Age, and Stormwatch PHD, as Servo mentioned. Before that, Frankenstein, Justice League Elite, a bunch of Superman, some JLA, Major Bummer, and tons of other stuff. He also mentored Green Lantern Corps' Patrick Gleason. The dude's been working steady for years, with good writers like Chris Gage and Peter Tomasi, and he always turns in great work.

    It just bugs me that guys like Ed Benes and Tony Daniels are working on top tier books, and in my opinion ruining them with their mediocrity, while Mahnke works on books that sell 30,000 copies or less.

    Daniel isn't that bad, he's improved a lot since he started on Batman. Benes, yeah, what happened to him? I actually thought he was pretty good on Birds of Prey...

    Sentry:
    Did you see all that shit going on around Earth? That's why. Remember, Darkseid fell through time and space, making weeks feel like days. It's not that hard to guess that the rocket went through some sort of crack in time, landing in the past.

    As for his charred corpse, we'll probably find out when they eventually bring him back (or get Morrison to write a mini-series following him and his efforts to get back to the future). My guess is that that was actually his body but he only appeared dead. He then broke free of the Omega Sanction but by then, he'd already been shot into the past.

    yeah but...
    when did they put him in the rocket? WHY did they put him in the rocket? that's the worst time capsule surprise ever. And I'm sorry, but you can't look at that charred, eyeless corpse and somehow think that was still alive.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • IrohIroh Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I'm digging Robos' idea a little more.

    Iroh on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Iroh wrote: »
    I'm digging Robos' idea a little more.

    at this point, it's the only thing that makes sense... but even then...
    it doesn't explain the body, and, if the Omega Sanction is supposed to make each subsequent life worse, I fail to see how sending Batman to the dawn of man is some kind of punishment. This guy spent 49 days dying in a cave, for fun...

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Who is Anthros? I missed the significance of the ending completely.

    Lucascraft on
  • IrohIroh Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    Iroh wrote: »
    I'm digging Robos' idea a little more.

    at this point, it's the only thing that makes sense... but even then...
    it doesn't explain the body, and, if the Omega Sanction is supposed to make each subsequent life worse, I fail to see how sending Batman to the dawn of man is some kind of punishment. This guy spent 49 days dying in a cave, for fun...
    Well,
    a Bat Clone corpse is still a possibility, and I think the entire point of it is that it's no big deal for Batman to survive the Sanction and get back at some point.

    Iroh on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Iroh wrote: »
    Sentry wrote: »
    Iroh wrote: »
    I'm digging Robos' idea a little more.

    at this point, it's the only thing that makes sense... but even then...
    it doesn't explain the body, and, if the Omega Sanction is supposed to make each subsequent life worse, I fail to see how sending Batman to the dawn of man is some kind of punishment. This guy spent 49 days dying in a cave, for fun...
    Well,
    a Bat Clone corpse is still a possibility, and I think the entire point of it is that it's no big deal for Batman to survive the Sanction and get back at some point.

    Yeah... I still see the flaws, but whatever... it was an awesome Batman moment... despite undermining the character completely, I guess.
    I just wish they'd done more to show how using the gun was Batman's last resort... anyone remember the beginning of Batman Beyond? Something like that...

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated NZRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    Unco-ordinated wrote: »
    Munch wrote: »
    deadonthestreet wrote: »
    Yeah, seriously, what has he been doing up until now?

    Recently, he did Black Adam: The Dark Age, and Stormwatch PHD, as Servo mentioned. Before that, Frankenstein, Justice League Elite, a bunch of Superman, some JLA, Major Bummer, and tons of other stuff. He also mentored Green Lantern Corps' Patrick Gleason. The dude's been working steady for years, with good writers like Chris Gage and Peter Tomasi, and he always turns in great work.

    It just bugs me that guys like Ed Benes and Tony Daniels are working on top tier books, and in my opinion ruining them with their mediocrity, while Mahnke works on books that sell 30,000 copies or less.

    Daniel isn't that bad, he's improved a lot since he started on Batman. Benes, yeah, what happened to him? I actually thought he was pretty good on Birds of Prey...

    Sentry:
    Did you see all that shit going on around Earth? That's why. Remember, Darkseid fell through time and space, making weeks feel like days. It's not that hard to guess that the rocket went through some sort of crack in time, landing in the past.

    As for his charred corpse, we'll probably find out when they eventually bring him back (or get Morrison to write a mini-series following him and his efforts to get back to the future). My guess is that that was actually his body but he only appeared dead. He then broke free of the Omega Sanction but by then, he'd already been shot into the past.

    yeah but...
    when did they put him in the rocket? WHY did they put him in the rocket? that's the worst time capsule surprise ever. And I'm sorry, but you can't look at that charred, eyeless corpse and somehow think that was still alive.

    Yeah, I just re-read it and noticed that they didn't actually put him in the rocket. So I'm changing my guess.
    He's not living multiple lives, he's just been thrown back into the past, just like Sonny Sumo.

    Also, the clone idea doesn't make any sense. Go read those two Batman issues again, they don't even look humanoid, let alone wearing Batman's costume.

    Lucascraft: Like I said before, Anthro is the first boy (aka, the first homo sapien).

    Unco-ordinated on
    Steam ID - LiquidSolid170 | PSN ID - LiquidSolid
  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Who is Anthros? I missed the significance of the ending completely.

    The first boy. Discovered fire with a little help from his buddy Metron. See the first issue.

    Furu on
  • NAND NORNAND NOR Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    So this is a super dumb theory about Batman that my simple mind came up with but ...
    Superman wished for a happy ending, correct? I'm guessing that would include Batman as well, so he was brought back to life/freed from the Omega Sanction when everything in the multiverse shifted back into order.

    As for the prehistoric time period? Maybe it's Bruce's ideal place? I mean there's the solitude, and in such a time Batman would thrive from the thrill of the hunt and survival.

    NAND NOR on
    moebius.jpg
  • PaperFootballPaperFootball Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    NAND NOR wrote: »
    So this is a super dumb theory about Batman that my simple mind came up with but ...
    Superman wished for a happy ending, correct? I'm guessing that would include Batman as well, so he was brought back to life/freed from the Omega Sanction when everything in the multiverse shifted back into order.

    As for the prehistoric time period? Maybe it's Bruce's ideal place? I mean there's the solitude, and in such a time Batman would thrive from the thrill of the hunt and survival.
    he does need to replace the t-rex in the batcave! yes, i know dinosaurs and man didn't coexist but i assume batman is on some kind of savage land like island.

    PaperFootball on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    NAND NOR wrote: »
    So this is a super dumb theory about Batman that my simple mind came up with but ...
    Superman wished for a happy ending, correct? I'm guessing that would include Batman as well, so he was brought back to life/freed from the Omega Sanction when everything in the multiverse shifted back into order.

    As for the prehistoric time period? Maybe it's Bruce's ideal place? I mean there's the solitude, and in such a time Batman would thrive from the thrill of the hunt and survival.

    I don't think this theory is stupid at all... at least, no more then any other theory so far, and actually better then some.

    If it is the case, it makes you realize just how completely fucked up Batman always was...

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated NZRegistered User regular
    edited January 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    NAND NOR wrote: »
    So this is a super dumb theory about Batman that my simple mind came up with but ...
    Superman wished for a happy ending, correct? I'm guessing that would include Batman as well, so he was brought back to life/freed from the Omega Sanction when everything in the multiverse shifted back into order.

    As for the prehistoric time period? Maybe it's Bruce's ideal place? I mean there's the solitude, and in such a time Batman would thrive from the thrill of the hunt and survival.

    I don't think this theory is stupid at all... at least, no more then any other theory so far, and actually better then some.

    If it is the case, it makes you realize just how completely fucked up Batman always was...

    Not really.
    The idea that Batman would rather live with a bunch of dumb barbarians, at around 35000 BC, than be with his friends and family is pretty silly.

    I'm guessing that the 'happy ending' is the end result to Superman Beyond's 'To Be Continued'. The immediate example seemed to be Nix Uotan, who was seperated from Weeja Dell and is probably going to go looking for her eventually. When he finds her, I'd guess that's when he gets his happy ending.

    Not that it matters much anyway, editorial will march in and ruin 99% of what Morrison did. I bet it's frustrating to be Geoff Johns or Grant Morrison, constantly cleaning up editorials shitpiles (see: Captain Carrot).

    Anyway, did anybody else notice that Hawkman and Hawkgirl died? I barely noticed until I read the FC #7 annotations. I figured they were boomtubed to Earth-51 with everyone else at Checkmate HQ.

    PaperFootball: Nope, he's actually in the past, otherwise Anthro would be a ~37 thousand year old skeleton. ;-)

    Unco-ordinated on
    Steam ID - LiquidSolid170 | PSN ID - LiquidSolid
  • PaperFootballPaperFootball Registered User regular
    edited January 2009
    I know he is in the past, but there still probably wouldn't be dinosaurs running around. I'm just trying to make it work.

    PaperFootball on
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