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religous related predicament
Headbanger4288
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
alright to start things off to explain myself, I am a nihlist black metal listener and viking metal. the problem at hand is that christmas is coming up and my parents are more than likely going to drag me to church for the holidays. i do not believe in god i detest him but i keep it a relative secret in fear of prejudice, because of how christainity is a touchy topic and ppl will assume im not one to be with. also my parents were doin my laundry while i was at work and im missing alot of my black metal shirts they have dissapeared : /. so my question is should i tell them should i keep it a secret? i would luv more than anything to be more expressive about it but should i? and if i do tell them when? how? etc...
Headbanger4288 on
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How do you detest something you don't believe in?
Is this an SE++ raid?
Don't damage the relationship you have with your parents either because I guarantee that in 5 years you'll look back on yourself as you are now and say, "Goddamn was I ever a dumbass." You'll do it again 5 years after that too forever and ever until you die. I think there's a Red vs. Blue skit about the same thing.
I was lucky in that my mother was not a practicing catholic so i was not facing double barreled exile from my home, and ultimately while my father's extended family tried to guilt trip me plenty, i considered it a victory to be able to "out" myself as non-religious and not be miserable and silent any longer.
YMMV
*nod*
If you're going to do it, do it like a man. Be honest, but be respectful. If you get shit do your best to be mature and respond with "I'm sorry you feel that way, but i'm just trying to be honest and clear. I don't think pretending is doing anyone any good."
im 19 and in college but at home till spring semester starts up. yea im really tired of being silent about it though, my family are catholics and a few lutherens in there my immediate family are lutherans.
Tell them some other time, when emotions aren't running as high as they normally do around the holiday season.
On the other hand if you instead say I believe in nihilism (or whatever you believe) for this reason and that and that, I think they would take it a lot better. Like I said, focus on your beliefs, not theirs. You are not attacking what they believe you are just explaining how you are different.
But from what you have posted I get the impression you haven't really figured out what you believe. You just know what you don't believe. And if that is the case, I would wait to talk to them until you get yourself figured out.
my parents are concerned about me not going to church and etc. but they think i believe in god just very lazy i guess. though the topic of me being non religous caught wind with a friend and i kept getting heckled by his youth group and parents to go to church with them : /.
I don't think anyone can answer this for you, because it really depends on who you are, what your family and filial dynamics are in your household, and the psychology of your parents.
When I was in High School, I went from Catholicism to Atheist to hating God to Indifference to what I am now, Agnostic. I told my family I was Agnostic, eventually, and I think they are now too, but it would have been bad for me to tell them I hated God at the time because frankly they wouldn't have cared and would have forced me to go to church at the time anyway, and all I would have done is upset/annoyed them.
Would it be the same in your situation? I don't know. All I can say is this:
- I assume you "hate God" because certain things have gone wrong/are going wrong in your life right now. The "god-hating" feeling will pass. As someone else said above, it is incongruous to say you don't believe in God and also hate him. You cannot hate someone you don't believe in. I came to that realization too and dropped the whole "Atheist" thing. You can't hate something you don't believe in.
- You can hate the idea of God, but I am assuming you are in High School at this point, and telling your parents you hate one of their fundamental beliefs is potentially a bad idea...you may insult them and you aren't going to make life easier for yourself, most likely. You may end up either alienating yourself from the family or being forced to go to church more often or you might just garner resentment from them.
Or maybe not. I don't know your family. If you are able to have an intelligent conversation/debate with them about this, then maybe it is possible to get them to leave you alone. I don't know much about them or you.
But if they are the types that will throw away your death metal shirts when you aren't around because they find them offensive, then I can only assume that telling them you hate God is a very, very, very, very, very bad idea. It might feel good to get it off your chest, but you're just bringing a world of pain down upon yourself. And it's probably not really true, or won't be an opinion you hold for very long. Nobody hates God forever. Life gets better, we grow and understand that life has its good and bad points and the bad points are sometimes elongated or made more visible by their nature of being negative, and we abandon said thoughts.
Yeah, it will get worse once you're "outed". So, i hope you have a graceful way of defelcting this kind of attention. Try not to go Kramer on them.
I'm not sure what it is you do or don't believe. I never went for Nihilism myself, preferring a more upbeat brand of existentialism. If its holds meaning for you, thats whats important though. Just be sure not to lock yourself into one perspective and close your mind to change and growth, no matter who you are or what you believe. Ultimately, I do think that being true to yourself and honest with the world will ultimately be more satisfying and fulfilling than living out a lie.
ur right i guess about the god hate thing i should clarify then i am agianst the ideal of god and religion. ive always been shaky about everytime i got in an argument with someone at my church or rather a discussion of some sort. it just made me believe less and less. those stories of how i should believe made me dislike the whole idealism of religion and also many other contributors aswell. my ideals do not make anything easy and if anything make it harder i want to be more expressive not just an angry ranter of some sort. but its hard a lot of my freinds are christian but understanding but there are those others i have ran into that are definatly not. the thing is it is maddening , almost drives me crazy how often i have to deal with christianity and religion everyday. i do not attack or tell ppl what the believe, i just want ppl to stop the whole pestering of "why do you not believe in god?" with a voice tone like i should be guilty and such.
It really does suck that you're in a situation where you're ostracized for not believing/attending. I think that's just bad Christianity right there. I was in a similar situation that your are in, but I knew I didn't believe after around six years of Catholic school. *God dam nuns*. I still like some of the things the church does in the community, and when I occasionaly do make an appearance in Jesus' crib, its more to reflect, not neccesarily to pray. Think of dealing with the people pestering you as a test, because there's always going to be someone who thinks they can 'save your soul'.
yea not believing in god and like metal does not make you a terrible person. heck im and eagle scout even ive done who knows how many community service projects but ppl do not take the time to know my character. i love the bands and music but other people show a lot of prejudice, which is a nasty little beast. : /
get together with your family and loved ones, share a good meal and have a good time
What exactly does Nietzsche's works have to do with Nihilism?
Keep in mind that this goes both ways: believing in a religion does not make you a terrible person either. The problem is that a lot of people think "Atheist = Asshole", and they're not entirely unjustified. It's just that a minority of them are, well, assholes about it.
The trick is being cool about it without hiding it.
I'm not too sure of this idea myself, but perhaps you could ask what happened to your shirts? Not "zomgwtfbbqyouthrewawaymyshirtsyoufags!!!11!!", but rather "Hey, I think I misplaced some shirts last time I was here, do you have any idea where they are?"
yeah, I agree... It's a holiday to spend with your family. Doesn't matter what religion you are apart of really. I'm athiest and we still do the gift giving, ect... Mostly due to tradition.
Nietzsche addresses nihilism in his books and im just trying to get a taste of different view points on my status in relations to religion. Im young and just beginning to get those gears in my head rollin faster so im just exploring.
Nietzsche wrote about Nihilism.
If i have my sources straight, my understanding is that he wrote about it as an obstacle to overcome within an existentialist perspective, but I've never read his writing directly nor had a conversation with someone who held it as their philosophy of choice so I'm not willing to comment on its merits or flaws.
www.rockmidgets.com
im not taking any paticular philosophy as a backbone for my life just find and taking what i find relevant to me. i guess reason i brought Nihilism up is that its what im just reading and looking into at the moment but i am striving very hard to look at other ideals then the usual. theres alot out there for me to learn and what not.
None of this means that Headbanger shouldn't be honest about his personal beliefs. If his family is loving and supportive they should be able to embrace him and respect him as an honest and thoughtful person. If they accept him only so long as he maintains a charade, then the holidays probably couldn't be very fulfilling for him anyway.
Its a hard situation. Very hard. But i personally believe that honesty and communication solves problems much better than keeping secrets and resenting forced complicity.
In short, you're probably not a nihilist.
edit: also, not believing in God is fairly common. It's not something to feel bad about either. I've found as I've got older I meet more and more people who do not believe in a cookie cutter concept of God. You're not alone in being confused. I would just recommend not calling yourself a nihilist; it will just cause people to not take you seriously. Say you're agnostic.
Sorry, i didn't mean to imply that you were. You seem to be a pretty thoughtful person and i'm hopeful you'll find value in whatever route you choose.
I remember his whole book was a remedy to nihilism, not a how to guide.
Just saying that reading the books will probably make you not want to be a nihilist.
about church, just suck it up. one day won't kill you, and you won't burst into flames for entering the place either.
you obviously hold your family in some regards, since you seek to not offend them, so enjoy the holiday for what it is. a good time to spend with them in company of some great food and hopefully receive a kickass gift.
I'll take a gift over nihilism any day
For instance, he says as there is no purpose to life, there is no such thing as being better or worse, because there can be no point of relation for you to compare a good or bad action. Yet at the same time he says it is better to be someone who can follow his own guidelines, moral or otherwise while understanding there is no reason to do so (Ubermenschen).
Evidently without a concept of better you cannot be a better person.
To your problem at hand, I think definitely the best way to go about this is to wait. The subject of God and religion is something some people hold very dear, verbal attacks on it are not appreciated.
Sit back, if they make you go to church, use it as a time to think about whether you actually DO hate God or Christianity or whether you hate what crimes have been performed in the name of the Church.
Secondly, try to work out which beliefs are yours and which beliefs stem directly from the philosophies you are reading/music you are listening to, (I believe the only diffrence between Black and Death Metal is the anti-christian-side but I'm very likely to be wrong). Remember it is possible to enjoy the music and the points being made by philosophers and musicians but you don't have to subscribe to them.
Lastly just so you know, I'm a Christian, I believe strongly in God, but I'm not going to try and convert you or save your soul. I'm certainly not going to heckle you to come to youth meetings. I just thought it was important to point out that we do exist, just the more obnoxious "save the world" types tend to be heard more.
though, i don't think you're intellectually armed well enough to have this discussion with them. i don't mean that in derogatory way.
you say you're still exploring, good... go with that. read, and think. it seems like the only thing you have to say to them right now is, `i don't believe what you do!'. if you're trying to learn, church isn't a horrible place to be, honestly. i mean, you don't have to believe in what they say, but it will give you another perspective.
if they ask you what you believe, tell them you're still figuring it out. if they freak out about it, tell them you'd rather not discuss it, as it will probably end with a fight, and you don't want to spend your time at home fighting.
good luck.
Take what I say with a pinch of salt but you're still young. You may change in the future (I did .. I'm rather different from who I used to be when I was 18 now that I'm 28 in terms of beliefs) and it will suck if you cause irreparable damage to your relationships with your family because of a phase you're going through.
I'm not saying it's a phase for sure. I'm saying don't do anything until you're absolutely sure what your beliefs are .. and even then, tell your family in a nice respectful way.
Last thing is this: Consider why you're telling them? It appears they pretty much leave you alone, i.e. they only try to drag you to church at Xmas. If so, why are you trying to rock the boat by openly stating you do not believe in God? Is there a reason for it? Will your life change in any way for the better because of your declaration? If not, ask yourself seriously why you want to make such a definitive statement.