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Pacifism? What is it good for!?

PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
edited March 2009 in Debate and/or Discourse
So what defines a person as a pacifist? What makes someone identify as a pacifist?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pacifism

This is what the dictionary defines as pacifism. But what does it mean to you?

I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

pleasepaypreacher.net
Preacher on

Posts

  • KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    It's good for making a target creature unable to attack or block.

    KalTorak on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    KalTorak wrote: »
    It's good for making a target creature unable to attack or block.

    Oh good one... jerk! This is a serious thread man. For serious posters.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    People who don't believe in violence for any reason. Even if that leads to further violence. Which doesn't really work unless every single person subscribes to it. It's just unsustainable hippie crap.

    Leitner on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I'm not sure what there is to discuss. It's a lifestyle choice, and a method of claiming political power. Of course, holding onto pacifism after it's been demonstrated to not work is somewhat suicidal. I mean, pacifism up to a point can be successful, but extremism is just as useless as any other kind of extremism.

    Fencingsax on
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I always looked at it as an outlook that says violence is never necessary or acceptable. there are always other ways around a problem.

    some people think that's true, some don't. those that do are called pacifists, and they don't engage in violence.

    Variable on
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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    But what if you are a chef who was a former navy seal and you need to take out the local crime lord? You are a man of peace, but sometimes you just have to bust a piece off in some guys ass!

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Preacher wrote: »
    But what if you are a chef who was a former navy seal and you need to take out the local crime lord? You are a man of peace, but sometimes you just have to bust a piece off in some guys ass!

    if your plan to make him stop involved violence, you're not a pacifist.

    Variable on
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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    Leitner wrote: »
    People who don't believe in violence for any reason. Even if that leads to further violence. Which doesn't really work unless every single person subscribes to it. It's just unsustainable hippie crap.

    Pretty much.

    A reasonable person will insist upon non-violent solutions until it is clear that all non-violent solutions will fail. If the goal is still one that is necessary, then the old remaining course of action is violence.

    Pacifism, in the sense that you will never, ever commit an act of violence for any reason, can only work if all the people with whom you interact are also pacifists. The second a non-pacifist becomes involved, your choices are to abandon pacifism or become a slave to tyranny.

    ElJeffe on
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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Variable wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    But what if you are a chef who was a former navy seal and you need to take out the local crime lord? You are a man of peace, but sometimes you just have to bust a piece off in some guys ass!

    if your plan to make him stop involved violence, you're not a pacifist.

    But I'm a man of peace variable, its all about the ends. Like when I asked the genie for world peace and she took away all the people.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • GrudgeGrudge blessed is the mind too small for doubtRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I'm more of a tit-for-tat guy. Pacifism isn't really an evolutionary stable strategy.

    Grudge on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Grudge wrote: »
    I'm more of a tit-for-tat guy. Pacifism isn't really an evolutionary stable strategy.

    It's viable, you can be a pacifist and want to kill people so they stop killing people. See you invoked peace by murder, perfectly fine. As long as your goal overall was peace, than the murder and violence was fine. You started out with a noble goal ergo you're a pacifist.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Preacher wrote: »
    Grudge wrote: »
    I'm more of a tit-for-tat guy. Pacifism isn't really an evolutionary stable strategy.

    It's viable, you can be a pacifist and want to kill people so they stop killing people. See you invoked peace by murder, perfectly fine. As long as your goal overall was peace, than the murder and violence was fine. You started out with a noble goal ergo you're a pacifist.

    Umm... I'm not sure pacifism means what you think it does.
    Wikipedia wrote:
    Pragmatic pacifism holds that the costs of war and inter-personal violence are so substantial that better ways of resolving disputes must be found. Pacifists in general reject theories of Just War.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Sentry wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Grudge wrote: »
    I'm more of a tit-for-tat guy. Pacifism isn't really an evolutionary stable strategy.

    It's viable, you can be a pacifist and want to kill people so they stop killing people. See you invoked peace by murder, perfectly fine. As long as your goal overall was peace, than the murder and violence was fine. You started out with a noble goal ergo you're a pacifist.

    Umm... I'm not sure pacifism means what you think it does.

    Of course it does, I'm seeking out peace ergo I'm a pacifist. Ends justify the means my friends.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    I think we need to define our terms, here.

    ElJeffe on
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  • GrudgeGrudge blessed is the mind too small for doubtRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Preacher wrote: »
    Grudge wrote: »
    I'm more of a tit-for-tat guy. Pacifism isn't really an evolutionary stable strategy.

    It's viable, you can be a pacifist and want to kill people so they stop killing people. See you invoked peace by murder, perfectly fine. As long as your goal overall was peace, than the murder and violence was fine. You started out with a noble goal ergo you're a pacifist.

    Yeah, just like Ozymandias.

    Grudge on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Pacifist= One who seeks peace through brutally oppressive means so that others obey his orders.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Title is fail.
    Should read "Pacifism? HUH!" etc.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • YarYar Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    No, you cannot be a pacifist who uses violence but thinks that his violent ways pave the way for more peace in the future. That is the opposite of pacifism.

    Yar on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Preacher wrote: »
    Pacifist= One who seeks peace through brutally oppressive means so that others obey his orders.

    Isn't that... isn't that Fascism?

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Yar wrote: »
    No, you cannot be a pacifist who uses violence but thinks that his violent ways pave the way for more peace in the future. That is the opposite of pacifism.

    Are you sure? Because I'm under the impression you can join the army and be an army ranger and still be a total pacifist.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Okay, your definition of pacifism is screwed up/useless. Pick one.

    Fencingsax on
  • FireflashFireflash Montreal, QCRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    What if you kill violent people in a non-violent way?

    Fireflash on
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  • Typhoid MannyTyphoid Manny Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    So it's okay to murder someone as long as the ends justify it?

    Typhoid Manny on
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  • DuffelDuffel jacobkosh Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Pacifism is really only a feasible lifestyle for individuals or small groups of people - people like the Amish, or Quakers, or religious gurus/monks, or whatever. It's obviously impossible for any large group of people, like an entire nation, to work with on a scale.

    Of course, most pacifist groups realise this, I think. I don't think the Amish expect the entire world to adhere to their beliefs, although I'm sure that they would believe it to be a better world if everyone did. But thinking about an entirely pacifist world is more eschatology than policy, and I think most pacifist groups realise that.

    Duffel on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Typhoid Manny wrote: »
    So it's okay to murder someone as long as the ends justify it?

    As long as they were a "bad" person and its for the goal of peace yes.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • DuffelDuffel jacobkosh Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Preacher wrote: »
    As long as they were a "bad" person and its for the goal of peace yes.
    How the hell is that pacifism?

    More like vigilantism.

    Duffel on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Duffel wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    As long as they were a "bad" person and its for the goal of peace yes.
    How the hell is that pacifism?

    More like vigilantism.

    Look if the world is a bad place and you are a pacifist you join the military to "Fix" the world. That way you bring peace through force!

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Preacher wrote: »
    Duffel wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    As long as they were a "bad" person and its for the goal of peace yes.
    How the hell is that pacifism?

    More like vigilantism.

    Look if the world is a bad place and you are a pacifist you join the military to "Fix" the world. That way you bring peace through force!
    I will have peace on Earth in my lifetime, so help me God! Even if it means killing everyone else in the world with my bare hands!

    Hacksaw on
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited March 2009
    I get the feeling Preacher is making some sort of sarcastic point about something going on in [chat]. Probably something to do with that Res dude who's supposedly joining the Rangers.

    I'm not entirely sure that a faux-thread is the best place for that sort of thing, but Preach isn't crazy. I mean, aside from the times I've caught him standing silently over my bed at night.

    Jacobkosh on
  • DuffelDuffel jacobkosh Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Preacher wrote: »
    Look if the world is a bad place and you are a pacifist you join the military to "Fix" the world. That way you bring peace through force!
    Are you familiar with what "pacifism" means historically?

    Duffel on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Duffel wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Look if the world is a bad place and you are a pacifist you join the military to "Fix" the world. That way you bring peace through force!
    Are you familiar with what "pacifism" means historically?

    To want to see peace, through any means necessary.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • MrMonroeMrMonroe passed out on the floor nowRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I love pacifism.

    The more people that subscribe to it other than me the happier I'll become.

    Edit: My sig is pretty great right below that, actually.

    MrMonroe on
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  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Preacher wrote: »
    Duffel wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    As long as they were a "bad" person and its for the goal of peace yes.
    How the hell is that pacifism?

    More like vigilantism.

    Look if the world is a bad place and you are a pacifist you join the military to "Fix" the world. That way you bring peace through force!

    Pacifism is about means not ends. As in, violence is never an acceptable means, no matter the ends.

    enc0re on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I get the feeling Preacher is trying to indicate something with this thread... but I have no clue what.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2009
    This thread is so very meta.

    Wait, no... what's the word? Locked.

    This thread is so very locked.

    ElJeffe on
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This discussion has been closed.
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