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exmelloexmello Registered User regular
edited November 2018 in Help / Advice Forum
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exmello on

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    brandotheninjamasterbrandotheninjamaster Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Unfortunately you can't force someone to want help, she has to want it on her own. The only thing you can do is be there for her. It sucks, depression has a way of making people feel hopeless and getting help is usually the last thing they want to do.

    brandotheninjamaster on
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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Well, I guess the first question I have is, what kind of advice are you looking for, here? Are you looking for how to get her to accept your help? Or how to help her? Or is she just being resistant to the idea of therapy?

    Thawmus on
    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    exmelloexmello Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Good question,

    I guess she really can't afford therapy anyway. So maybe I'm just looking for the right thing to say, maybe some sage advice.

    I mean you guys seem pretty smart, what kind of things increase someone's drive to do better for themselves? Basically, she's really smart but has fallen into a hole because she stopped trying and doesn't WANT to do any better.

    This would be fine on its own, but some of her statements about how "worthless" she is really worry me.

    exmello on
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    urahonkyurahonky Resident FF7R hater Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    I feel like a spambot whenever threads like these pop up, but I swear it's helped me before.

    Have you talked with her about volunteering? Maybe you could work with her on going to a soup kitchen or to a local Church and see if they need help with anything. It'll make her feel like she's making a difference in someone's life which should help her self esteem.

    The reason I say she could volunteer is that she has some free time since she's only working a few hours a week. The other hours what does she do? If she just sits there and does nothing that will only compound the problem.

    urahonky on
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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    exmello wrote: »
    Good question,

    I guess she really can't afford therapy anyway. So maybe I'm just looking for the right thing to say, maybe some sage advice.

    I mean you guys seem pretty smart, what kind of things increase someone's drive to do better for themselves? Basically, she's really smart but has fallen into a hole because she stopped trying and doesn't WANT to do any better.

    This would be fine on its own, but some of her statements about how "worthless" she is really worry me.

    Well, you can take one of two approaches to this. You can either be patient, and just help her whenever she reaches out to you on this....or......you can be aggressive, and force the issue. Both approaches have positive and negative effects, depending on the person. Given what she's said to you already, I think she's already reaching out to you. She may be closing herself off to the answers you have for her, but she's looking for someone to pick her back up.

    First thing's first: You will not fix this for her. This is her problem, and the only way she's going to be able to resolve it is by changing the way she perceives and does things. You can help her, and by gum, you should. But that's all ANYONE can do for her. Nobody's going to be able to pick up the pieces, or fix her, except for her.
    I have no idea what's wrong with me
    I have the fuck up gene
    I'm destined to fail

    Failure is a harsh reality to face. And a string of them together can be devastating to anyone. Frankly, she's right. She is destined to fail. She's HUMAN. Out of curiosity, what is it, exactly, that she's been failing at, lately? Did she do poorly in school, or what?
    therapy doesn't do anything
    it's fake
    I have tons of depressed fucked up friends who go to therapy and take medication they say it doesn't change anything

    Heh, I just talked about this in a recent thread in this forum, but I went through 6 shrinks before I found one that was worth anything. Most shrinks will let you come in, bitch for an hour, cut a check, and set you up to come in next week. GOOD shrinks will give you direction for resolving your problems, or finding ways to cope with a certain disability you might have. You might want to ask her friends what their therapy sessions are like, and make the distinction yourself.

    Meds don't change anything. Meds are there to treat you while you get therapy. If you're nervous in front of crowds, they give you an anxiety med, so you can LEARN new behavior, that you were previously unable to explore. Sometimes, you'll get a medication that they want you to take forever and ever, because you have a condition you'll never be rid of. But in the end, it's your decision.

    Personally, after going through thousands of medications, I finally told my shrink that I was going to just have to man up and go through some severely awkward moments for a while, and just learn things the hard way. She didn't fight me on it, and agreed that it was the best way for me. They're not omniscient. They're there to help you, and give you another perspective on your behavior and state of mind. They'll have some answers for you, but some answers...
    what's a doctor going to do that I can't do
    there's no drug you can prescribe for sucking at life

    ...you end up coming up with yourself. And those tend to be the answers that, someone going through depression, will find easier to accept.

    As for there being no drug you can prescribe for sucking at life....she's wrong. I went through a period of time where I wasn't doing anything at work, and I was on the verge of being fired. I was prescribed Welbutrin, and I learned what getting a good day's work done, felt like. It was a good damn feeling. And I got off the drug, and continue, to this day, to get a good day's work done, every day. I don't need a drug to drive me to that point. I just needed the drug to help me understand what I was missing. Who knows, maybe that's all she needs? Or maybe she needs something to help her concentrate. She won't know, unless she sees a professional.


    There's not going to be some magical phrase you can use to snap her out of this. You're not going to fix this for her. But you can offer her a new perspective on obtaining help for her problem, and what the role of therapy truly is. She'll continue to reach out to you, so just help her when that happens.

    Thawmus on
    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    exmelloexmello Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Thank you so much, this gives me some new perspectives on these issues and more ammo to use in a conversation. I really don't understand this stuff because I have not gone through the same thing.

    I really wish I could just link her to your responses, but she would probably be upset that I mentioned something so private in a public forum (even though it's completely anonymous).

    exmello on
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    underdonkunderdonk __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2009
    Damn, I wish I could cover my mortgage payment by sending pictures of my feet to some guy. That would be awesome.

    underdonk on
    Back in the day, bucko, we just had an A and a B button... and we liked it.
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    I'd Fuck Chuck Lidell UpI'd Fuck Chuck Lidell Up Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    urahonky wrote: »
    I feel like a spambot whenever threads like these pop up, but I swear it's helped me before.

    Have you talked with her about volunteering? Maybe you could work with her on going to a soup kitchen or to a local Church and see if they need help with anything. It'll make her feel like she's making a difference in someone's life which should help her self esteem.

    The reason I say she could volunteer is that she has some free time since she's only working a few hours a week. The other hours what does she do? If she just sits there and does nothing that will only compound the problem.
    this

    whenever I'm feeling lost or depressed i spend a lot of my time helping people (usually on here funnily enough). even if it's something as simple as a computer problem something about knowing that i made a difference in at least 1 persons life because of the skills and knowledge that i have is very uplifting.

    I would also recommend that she find a different job. help her search for one, even if it doesn't lead to any actual jobs, she'll be doing something with her time, and with you there she'll have support in a huge time of need. if she does find one, even better because 15 hours a week is no way to live.

    what city do you live in?

    I'd Fuck Chuck Lidell Up on
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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    exmello wrote: »
    Thank you so much, this gives me some new perspectives on these issues and more ammo to use in a conversation. I really don't understand this stuff because I have not gone through the same thing.

    I really wish I could just link her to your responses, but she would probably be upset that I mentioned something so private in a public forum (even though it's completely anonymous).

    Glad I can help! It's probably not a good idea to show her this thread, for the above reason.

    One other piece of advice: The "Good" shrink I finally saw, was an alcoholism counselor. No, I didn't have a problem with alcoholism, but they were working from the standpoint: "Look, in 10 months, I don't want you to still be coming here. I want you to be able to stand on your own 2 feet."

    I realize that it's unfair and anecdotal, but I think back to the pop psychology "How was your week" BS I went through for 6 years, and I can't help but think of how utterly and humiliatingly WORTHLESS that was.

    I said it in another thread here: You can buy a puppy, to do that for you. And you can cuddle those.

    Thawmus on
    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    exmelloexmello Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    .

    exmello on
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    MagicToasterMagicToaster JapanRegistered User regular
    edited March 2009
    exmello wrote: »
    What kind of things increase someone's drive to do better for themselves?

    If you depend on external stimulants to motivate you (your friends, family, a car, a job, success) you will always fall short when those things are missing. Drive should come from a decision to do better for your own sake knowing full well that highs and lows are a part of life.

    Also, people don't just loose the will to do better. Something happened here, find out what keeps her from doing better and work on that issue. Also, lead her through your example.

    MagicToaster on
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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Also, people don't just loose the will to do better. Something happened here, find out what keeps her from doing better and work on that issue.

    I'm still curious about this, as well. She's saying she's "Destined to fail", but she isn't DOING anything to fail at right now. Did she do poorly in her studies, and that's why she's out of college now? I'm just guessing here.

    Thawmus on
    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    exmelloexmello Registered User regular
    edited March 2009

    Also, lead her through your example.

    She used to have a sense of humor about this stuff until I talked about being happy with my job and a girl I met.

    I used to be a whiny loser and she gave me some really good dating advice and turned me around. As soon as I thanked her for helping make my life better, I think she realized she can't take her own advice because she "always ruins anything good that happens to her".

    exmello on
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    exmelloexmello Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Did she do poorly in her studies, and that's why she's out of college now? I'm just guessing here.

    As far as I can tell, no. She just felt like she was being the man's bitch in school and gave up.

    exmello on
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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    exmello wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Did she do poorly in her studies, and that's why she's out of college now? I'm just guessing here.

    As far as I can tell, no. She just felt like she was being the man's bitch in school and gave up.

    She needs help. Something happened to her, or something's been happening to her, that lead to this. She needs to pick up a second job (or ditch the one she has for another), and start paying for some therapy.

    Out of curiosity, does her family know about this? Are they aware that she's going through this? You might be wise to bring this up with them and see if they can help. It could turn into a betrayal of her trust in you, however, so be cautious about this.

    Thawmus on
    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Sometimes you just can't fix someone nor should you feel obligated to. Sounds like you want to be her white knight and I don't think this a dragon you can slay for her. You shouldn't go into a conversation with a friend with "ammo" because at that point your a salesman, selling her on a life different from her own. Perhaps she likes her misery who are you to judge?

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    exmelloexmello Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    Preacher wrote: »
    Sometimes you just can't fix someone nor should you feel obligated to. Sounds like you want to be her white knight and I don't think this a dragon you can slay for her. You shouldn't go into a conversation with a friend with "ammo" because at that point your a salesman, selling her on a life different from her own. Perhaps she likes her misery who are you to judge?

    Although I partially agree, you make it sound like I'm trying to get into her pants. I don't need that kind of baggage and she's gay anyway. Think of it more like a brother worried about his little sister getting hurt and desperately wanting to do something about it.

    exmello on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    The fact you would have to disqualify the statement that you are not going to get into her pants is a bit telling. All I'm saying is you should be this persons friend without seeking to change their life, if they want that help they will seek it out of you. When you sell something to a friend you aren't their friend you're their salesman the pitch changes but the soulessness of the transaction remains the same.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    edited March 2009
    For some reason she wants to fail, so she is trying very hard to be a failure. Don't feel bad if you can't talk her out of it, because you can't persuade someone who doesn't want to be persuaded. She needs to decide she wants to be happy, herself. You can't do it for her.

    For some perverse reason she wants you to tell her that she's worthwhile, and then prove you wrong. There can be a maudlin, self-indulgent pleasure in this sort of behaviour.

    CelestialBadger on
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