so. i have been getting my ass kicked by the computer. It smarts and pisses me off. This game is a great deal more complicated than i like
Complicated eh? I wouldn't ever try another turn based 4x. This is about as simple and streamlined as they come.
Well, when playing the computer the more simple the game is the better (up to a point) since the computer will not find wierd combinations of stuff which in a complex game make you nigh invincible. For example in vanilla galciv to a human player with a game or so under his belt on the lower AIs it soon became obvious that victory was inevitable once you had some high defence ships and culture starbases, and that high research always wins.
I am saddened that I put so much effort into this thread's OP and it's only at page 4 and struggling to maintain a page 1 spot.
I guess games like this are too niche and get glossed over too easily in favour of bigger name titles.
Yeah it seems that these types of strategy/wargames aren't as popular on these boards as other genres. I appreciate your OP though, this is one of my favorite games of all time.
Well, if it's any consolation, your awesome op got me to buy the game. But now I'm so invested in learning how to play the game effectively that I barely have time to post about it.
The economy and research in the game requires aggressive expansion. The AI will run over you if you play defensively and try to build up two or three colonies instead of going for six. You could easily be spending over half your empire's earnings on colonization, so at first it appears that things are moving slowly, but it's great when your colonies get fully developed and you don't have to depend so much on your homeworld anymore.
Of course, it all depends on the races in play, your starting tech tree, and the type of map. For instance, a Spiral galaxy will limit you to one arm until you can make it to the center. This makes an interesting end-game as you have to fight your way down the other arms to take out other races. For instance, in my game, I started a Disc-shaped galaxy and I wound up right in the middle. Essentially, I'm surrounded and starting to run into all of the races now:
I started this thread to learn the game as I was experiencing many of the problems expressed here: getting spanked economically, beaten up with cooler weapons, etc.
Fuck. I can't figure it out, either the computer is getting some crazy tech bonuses at normal difficulty or I'm massively screwing up my starts. I don't understand how I can be leading in the colony rating, with all of my colonies producing good cash, and yet still be drastically behind the ai in tech. Just played a game where I was humans against humans and the birds. The humans ended up out teching me and just decimating my destroyer fleets with light emitters. It was crazy.
I have played this game from the beginning, and with the new expansions and my long hiatus, i am now poor... at this game. Ah well, if i find courage, i shall go once more unto the breach and all that.
It just hurts when i tech SO badly, I can tech with some speed, but I seem to make really bad decisions.
Fuck. I can't figure it out, either the computer is getting some crazy tech bonuses at normal difficulty or I'm massively screwing up my starts. I don't understand how I can be leading in the colony rating, with all of my colonies producing good cash, and yet still be drastically behind the ai in tech. Just played a game where I was humans against humans and the birds. The humans ended up out teching me and just decimating my destroyer fleets with light emitters. It was crazy.
Colony numbers arent everything. Colony population and resource rating are important factors for your income as well. Its possible that the AI colonized fewer, better colonies than you did.
Keep an eye on your income rating as well. If you rate high in colonies and income, prudent tech choice should keep you on top. If you rate high on income, but your colony rating drops suddenly, someone is colonizing several new planets. Try putting a raiding fleet together and killing them before they mature.
In the mid game, trade also impacts income and research rate. A mid sized empire with a robust trade economy can out-earn and thus out-tech a larger empire.
Light emitters are a powerful early game weapon, but their damage output on a single target is low, and they are almost useless against planets. If emitter fleets are giving you trouble, tech to cruisers and stay on the defensive meanwhile. Invest in long range armaments for your ships.
Where you invest your research has a large impact on how the game progresses. Weapons tech is flashy and shows its impact quickly and easily, but CnC or industrial tech is at least as important. Its possible that the AI didnt out-tech you, it just teched in a different direction.
Almost every weapon has some sort of soft counter. Emitters have short ranges and low refire rates, try to capitalize on that. Emitters are also somewhat of a dead end research tree. You pay for their early power with additional time spent researching to climb the tree in other areas.
Fuck. I can't figure it out, either the computer is getting some crazy tech bonuses at normal difficulty or I'm massively screwing up my starts. I don't understand how I can be leading in the colony rating, with all of my colonies producing good cash, and yet still be drastically behind the ai in tech. Just played a game where I was humans against humans and the birds. The humans ended up out teching me and just decimating my destroyer fleets with light emitters. It was crazy.
What kaorti says, plus yeah, you can usually have higher colony score or higher tech score in games but rarely both until some time has passed. Reason being that if the AI has less colonies than you then more of their income is going towards research instead of planetary development.
Colonies are a better idea in the long run, because you'll be able to leap frog them in technology eventually and then theres no catching up for them.
Don't forget to get FTL Broadband -> FTL Economics and build freighters for your economy. I find that I can always get 1# economy early on if I focus on getting that up and running, even if I'm number 3 or 4 in colony count.
And I'm always, ALWAYS last or close to it in technology early on. I prefer to grab the basics then focus on making freighters/colony ships/destroyers. But then I normally pick Hivers so I can get away with having a crummy tech everything.
The technology ranking is one of the least useful of the rankings. The most important, powerful technology is also the most expensive and time consuming.
This means that the person with the highest tech rating is usually gobbling up a bunch of low value techs. Until people start to max out their tech trees, a low tech rating can mean that they have been focusing in powerful techs, such as fusion or AI.
Supposedly, the Ultimate Collection is now available on Impulse. I can't confirm yet as I don't have my laptop handy, but thought someone might be interested in knowing this. A few on Stardock's website have said it's there, as well as one person on the Kerberos website.
For those of you getting stomped by the computer while learning, keep in mind that you can set different starting conditions for each player. You can give yourself a significant treasury and a few extra colonies while restricting some or all of the computer players to minimal starting conditions, for example.
Dark_Side: Cruisers with Armor Piercing Mass Drivers are an ideal counter to Emitters, and can probably survive a short range brawl with them. Other solutions depend on how well you can maneuver your craft to stay out of Emitter range while still bringing your own weapons to bear (this will depend partly on skill/experience, and largely on race). Plasma Torpedo or Photon Torpedo destroyers might work. Disruptor torpedoes are short range, but may be able to keep the Emitters from firing. Sniper Cannons or even Green or UV lasers should work if you can outmaneuver your oponenet well enough. Mines will be thinned out a bit by the initial burst of Emitter fire, but plenty of mines should get through while the Emitters are recharging.
So, on the steam version there is a complete lack of manual, I seem to have figured most things out but two things totally elude me.
How do I get my camera to focus somewhere else in the strategic battles? I can spin around, and zoom in, but cant figure it out beyond that. I always end up miles from the action trying to command tiny near invisible dots.
How do I talk to the aliens? I found an independant colony of the dolphin people, and I'd like to talk to them. I researched their language, but there seems to be no interface options for that.
So, on the steam version there is a complete lack of manual, I seem to have figured most things out but two things totally elude me.
How do I get my camera to focus somewhere else in the strategic battles? I can spin around, and zoom in, but cant figure it out beyond that. I always end up miles from the action trying to command tiny near invisible dots.
How do I talk to the aliens? I found an independant colony of the dolphin people, and I'd like to talk to them. I researched their language, but there seems to be no interface options for that.
Look the game up in the steam browser and you can download the manual in .pdf form right from there. You can use your middle mouse button click to focus on specific objects.
So, on the steam version there is a complete lack of manual, I seem to have figured most things out but two things totally elude me.
How do I get my camera to focus somewhere else in the strategic battles? I can spin around, and zoom in, but cant figure it out beyond that. I always end up miles from the action trying to command tiny near invisible dots.
How do I talk to the aliens? I found an independant colony of the dolphin people, and I'd like to talk to them. I researched their language, but there seems to be no interface options for that.
Look the game up in the steam browser and you can download the manual in .pdf form right from there. You can use your middle mouse button click to focus on specific objects.
I looked at it on that and it didn't seem to have the same options for that like DoW2 and my other games did. Maybe I was just being blind.
However, I had the Peacekeeper show up in the middle of a war...
Needless to say after he destroyed all of my dreadnought fleets there was some reloading to be done. Christ.
My only complaint about this game is that some of the tech moves so fast that ships will be obsolete withing like 5 turns of building them. I am really anal about having up-to-date fleets, and so this is driving me crazy.
Slow teching down if you are playing single player and feel that things are moving too fast. This game is designed for multiplayer from the game up, and as such, a lot of aspects feel more "rushed" in the sense that things take too little time, to ensure that they are viable without dumping 12+ hours on a multiplayer game(Though that has happened on more than one occasion).
In any case, I prefer batch building. I set a goal(Like UV lasers, Fusion cannons and poly/reflective), then I pump out a ton of those ships, then I set a new goal(such as upgrading my armor and cannons) before building more. Helps keep things orderly and ensures that I can tell how a fleet is equipped just by checking a single ship of each type.
I haven't searched for it, but I figure there's got to be a mod out there allowing me to upgrade ships at colonies. Would make it so much easier to deal with out of date fleets and so on.
I haven't searched for it, but I figure there's got to be a mod out there allowing me to upgrade ships at colonies. Would make it so much easier to deal with out of date fleets and so on.
As far as I know, a change of that scope would require a change to the source code and at least one new interface screen. While SotS lets modders change a lot of things with art and data files, some behaviors are programmed in at a level that is only possible (and not necessarily easy) to change with source code and dev tools. On the other hand, the topic ofrefitshascomeroundseveraltimes on the other forum. Mecron is the lead designer at Kerberos, and while his answers are sometimes curt and cryptic, they are still the Voice of God.
Tl;dr: This ain’t the 4x yer used to, old ships still have uses.
I haven't searched for it, but I figure there's got to be a mod out there allowing me to upgrade ships at colonies. Would make it so much easier to deal with out of date fleets and so on.
As far as I know, a change of that scope would require a change to the source code and at least one new interface screen. While SotS lets modders change a lot of things with art and data files, some behaviors are programmed in at a level that is only possible (and not necessarily easy) to change with source code and dev tools. On the other hand, the topic ofrefitshascomeroundseveraltimes on the other forum. Mecron is the lead designer at Kerberos, and while his answers are sometimes curt and cryptic, they are still the Voice of God.
Tl;dr: This ain’t the 4x yer used to, old ships still have uses.
I've got some screenshots lurking somewhere with ~200 old DN led destroyers (Zuul UV laser DEs, some with PD) swarming over and destroying a late fusion era cruiser fleet. Unless they have ships built as hard counters to your old designs, you should be able to still use them. Destroyers have such a small maintenance cost that it really doesn't make too much sense to scrap them. If you dont want them, make them into a horde and throw them at your nearest enemy.
EDIT: Well, maybe not liir fission DEs. But I make an effort to build as few of those as I can manage.
Darkchampion3d on
Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence --Thomas Jefferson
I like to stick old destroyers in trade sectors and use them as freighter escorts. I also like to have a fair amount orbiting my "good" planets in case of random events or VN attacks.
tgbob on
0
Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
I might be Astns, but I need to learn the damn game first.
Vic on
0
kaliyamaLeft to find less-moderated foraRegistered Userregular
edited May 2009
I bought it. Fun, but I end up getting waxed mid-game. One thing that would help is if I could navigate the starmap better. Am I able to freelookt hrough the glaaxy somewhow? It seems all i can do is move around by clilcking from star to star.
Posts
Well, when playing the computer the more simple the game is the better (up to a point) since the computer will not find wierd combinations of stuff which in a complex game make you nigh invincible. For example in vanilla galciv to a human player with a game or so under his belt on the lower AIs it soon became obvious that victory was inevitable once you had some high defence ships and culture starbases, and that high research always wins.
Is there a game for which this is NOT true?
Of course, it all depends on the races in play, your starting tech tree, and the type of map. For instance, a Spiral galaxy will limit you to one arm until you can make it to the center. This makes an interesting end-game as you have to fight your way down the other arms to take out other races. For instance, in my game, I started a Disc-shaped galaxy and I wound up right in the middle. Essentially, I'm surrounded and starting to run into all of the races now:
http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11427&start=0
I started this thread to learn the game as I was experiencing many of the problems expressed here: getting spanked economically, beaten up with cooler weapons, etc.
I have played this game from the beginning, and with the new expansions and my long hiatus, i am now poor... at this game. Ah well, if i find courage, i shall go once more unto the breach and all that.
It just hurts when i tech SO badly, I can tech with some speed, but I seem to make really bad decisions.
Colony numbers arent everything. Colony population and resource rating are important factors for your income as well. Its possible that the AI colonized fewer, better colonies than you did.
Keep an eye on your income rating as well. If you rate high in colonies and income, prudent tech choice should keep you on top. If you rate high on income, but your colony rating drops suddenly, someone is colonizing several new planets. Try putting a raiding fleet together and killing them before they mature.
In the mid game, trade also impacts income and research rate. A mid sized empire with a robust trade economy can out-earn and thus out-tech a larger empire.
Light emitters are a powerful early game weapon, but their damage output on a single target is low, and they are almost useless against planets. If emitter fleets are giving you trouble, tech to cruisers and stay on the defensive meanwhile. Invest in long range armaments for your ships.
Where you invest your research has a large impact on how the game progresses. Weapons tech is flashy and shows its impact quickly and easily, but CnC or industrial tech is at least as important. Its possible that the AI didnt out-tech you, it just teched in a different direction.
Almost every weapon has some sort of soft counter. Emitters have short ranges and low refire rates, try to capitalize on that. Emitters are also somewhat of a dead end research tree. You pay for their early power with additional time spent researching to climb the tree in other areas.
What kaorti says, plus yeah, you can usually have higher colony score or higher tech score in games but rarely both until some time has passed. Reason being that if the AI has less colonies than you then more of their income is going towards research instead of planetary development.
Colonies are a better idea in the long run, because you'll be able to leap frog them in technology eventually and then theres no catching up for them.
And I'm always, ALWAYS last or close to it in technology early on. I prefer to grab the basics then focus on making freighters/colony ships/destroyers. But then I normally pick Hivers so I can get away with having a crummy tech everything.
This means that the person with the highest tech rating is usually gobbling up a bunch of low value techs. Until people start to max out their tech trees, a low tech rating can mean that they have been focusing in powerful techs, such as fusion or AI.
. . .Unless they fail.
Then things can get dicey.
Dark_Side: Cruisers with Armor Piercing Mass Drivers are an ideal counter to Emitters, and can probably survive a short range brawl with them. Other solutions depend on how well you can maneuver your craft to stay out of Emitter range while still bringing your own weapons to bear (this will depend partly on skill/experience, and largely on race). Plasma Torpedo or Photon Torpedo destroyers might work. Disruptor torpedoes are short range, but may be able to keep the Emitters from firing. Sniper Cannons or even Green or UV lasers should work if you can outmaneuver your oponenet well enough. Mines will be thinned out a bit by the initial burst of Emitter fire, but plenty of mines should get through while the Emitters are recharging.
How do I get my camera to focus somewhere else in the strategic battles? I can spin around, and zoom in, but cant figure it out beyond that. I always end up miles from the action trying to command tiny near invisible dots.
How do I talk to the aliens? I found an independant colony of the dolphin people, and I'd like to talk to them. I researched their language, but there seems to be no interface options for that.
You can't talk to independent dudes.
Look the game up in the steam browser and you can download the manual in .pdf form right from there. You can use your middle mouse button click to focus on specific objects.
I looked at it on that and it didn't seem to have the same options for that like DoW2 and my other games did. Maybe I was just being blind.
I actually am first in an online game atm, i dont know how long my luck will hold, but if i ever get to play it again im gonna rock face.
However, I had the Peacekeeper show up in the middle of a war...
Needless to say after he destroyed all of my dreadnought fleets there was some reloading to be done. Christ.
My only complaint about this game is that some of the tech moves so fast that ships will be obsolete withing like 5 turns of building them. I am really anal about having up-to-date fleets, and so this is driving me crazy.
This place is my number 1 expense generator.
In any case, I prefer batch building. I set a goal(Like UV lasers, Fusion cannons and poly/reflective), then I pump out a ton of those ships, then I set a new goal(such as upgrading my armor and cannons) before building more. Helps keep things orderly and ensures that I can tell how a fleet is equipped just by checking a single ship of each type.
Tl;dr: This ain’t the 4x yer used to, old ships still have uses.
I've got some screenshots lurking somewhere with ~200 old DN led destroyers (Zuul UV laser DEs, some with PD) swarming over and destroying a late fusion era cruiser fleet. Unless they have ships built as hard counters to your old designs, you should be able to still use them. Destroyers have such a small maintenance cost that it really doesn't make too much sense to scrap them. If you dont want them, make them into a horde and throw them at your nearest enemy.
EDIT: Well, maybe not liir fission DEs. But I make an effort to build as few of those as I can manage.
http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=98535
Who would be interested in participating in an epic in-house PA game?
I might be Astns, but I need to learn the damn game first.
As the mastermind behind the thread, I have no choice but to concede. But then you knew that already.
Fucker.