New Comic Thread: Monday, May 18th, 2009

AMP'd

ThatDudeOverThere wrote: »

Tricky was clearly the best.

It is science.

Proof that Run-DMC makes anything better

Kuribo's Shoe

there's one very good reason to own a wii, or live with someone who does!

well, it's a good reason for me at least

not that I'll ever buy another wii, mind you

anyway

tatsunoko vs. capcom, for some baffling reason, is wii exclusive and coming to the states

and that's awesome

Octopus Melody

I'm gunna pick up Punch-Out, game sounds groovy. Looking forward to Tatsunoko vs Capcom too, mainly cause you can play as Viewtiful Joe.

Punsie McKale

defender do you think the new thief will be a return to form

AMP'd

THI4F

A surprisingly good logo

Tanolen

thi4f,

they are already starting to lose points

Speed Racer

Defender wrote: »

Rolo wrote: »

Peter Ebel wrote: »

Fine, Punchout is apparently a game for the Wii that is enjoyable.

Punchout pretty much highlights all of the problems with the Wii:

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/review-punch-out/49382


Essentially, the gameplay is unchanged from the original game from the NES and Super Punchout on the SNES. There are the same punches, star punches, blocks, dodges and endurance system. The game still relies on pattern memorization and recognition rather than any knowledge of boxing, which is fine.

The controls are where the problem is. Using the Wiimote motion sensing controls essentially just makes the gestures work in place of button presses. Punching harder or faster, or even trying to aim with the remote does nothing, since all it does is replicate tapping the "A" button. To play the game at all when you're facing the more difficult opponents pretty much requires just switching the controls back to 'classic' mode, where you use the wiimote like the original NES controller.

The graphics are improved, although they're obviously low-res since they're on the Wii. But there's not a whole lot of content. What's there is polished, but seriously, only 15 opponents? And you can't use any of them in multiplayer.

It's essentially a prettier version of a 22 year old game, with tacked on motion controls that you should discard at the first opportunity.

It looks a fuckload slower than the original from the gameplay footage I've seen. Also, they really cranked up the resolution on the racism in this remake. Both of those could be attributed to technological advancement, although I suspect that the game is actually slower/easier, as opposed to just smoother and with more audio cues.

Also, you've basically hit the central problem with almost every single Wii game ever. Most games are designed with discreet actions in mind. Like "swing the sword" in Zelda or "punch high left" in Punch-Out. A button is really the best known control option for giving a discreet command like that. If you want a game that really uses gestures, you need something like Die By The Sword where there's an attempt to replicate the exact motion you make. You want to simulate a physical sport, whereas most video games are purely mental.

In a game like Punch-Out!!, I don't really want controls where gestures are mapped to buttons, because it's a game where speedy reflexes are key. In something like Zelda though I think it works well. The sword doesn't directly follow your movements, no, but just the general act of swinging the controller to swing my sword makes the game feel more immersive to me. The game doesn't play any better because of it, but I think it's a nice piece of window-dressing that adds to the experience.

Defender

Speed Racer wrote: »

In a game like Punch-Out!!, I don't really want controls where gestures are mapped to buttons, because it's a game where speedy reflexes are key. In something like Zelda though I think it works well. The sword doesn't directly follow your movements, no, but just the general act of swinging the controller to swing my sword makes the game feel more immersive to me. The game doesn't play any better because of it, but I think it's a nice piece of window-dressing that adds to the experience.

Right, that makes sense.

But there's a specific context in which it makes sense: The game has to be easy. For example, you absolutely would not want that in Zelda 1 or Zelda 2. In those games, you had to have good timing, so the lag introduced by gestures would be unacceptable. In Zelda 2, you would frequently spam jump-high-low combination attacks against charging enemies with unblockable weapons in an effort to hit them around their shields, or at least knock them back so they couldn't hit you.

So the point is that the gameplay itself has to be watered down, the challenge has to be removed from the actual game mechanics, because the control interface is laggy and unreliable. If you saddle an easy game with laggy, unreliable controls, you can still win. If you do that to a hard game like the original Punch-Out and map it to a gesture-control device (e.g. Power Glove), the game becomes harder in a bad way because the player loses due to input faults. Good god, imagine a really hard-ass, unforgiving game with motion controls. Like Ninja Gaiden. Holy fuck. My face hurts just thinking about it.

bwanie

Defender wrote: »

Good god, imagine a really hard-ass, unforgiving game with motion controls. Like Ninja Gaiden. Holy fuck. My face hurts just thinking about it.

now i can't stop picturing your avatar with a wiimote strapped to his face and a nunchuk in his mouth. thanks.

Me Too!

Octopus Melody wrote: »

I'm gunna pick up Punch-Out, game sounds groovy. Looking forward to Tatsunoko vs Capcom too, mainly cause you can play as Viewtiful Joe.

Here's hoping mom doesn't give my cousins the wii before that comes out!

Run Run Run

I'd love a D&D game with Wii controls.

Run Run Run

Peter Ebel wrote: »

Apparently Punchout legitimizes the Wii. And has no motion control.

Why does the Wii need legitimation? It's dirt cheap and got a lot of fun time killers.

Run Run Run

Defender wrote: »

AMP'd wrote: »

Galaxy is so pretty

It's the best looking thing on the Wii

But SMB3 reigns king in my heart

Gameplay over graphics, right?

Story over gameplay for me. But I'm no gamer.
I usually only play RPGs and see them more as an interactive novel.

Speed Racer

Defender wrote: »

Speed Racer wrote: »

In a game like Punch-Out!!, I don't really want controls where gestures are mapped to buttons, because it's a game where speedy reflexes are key. In something like Zelda though I think it works well. The sword doesn't directly follow your movements, no, but just the general act of swinging the controller to swing my sword makes the game feel more immersive to me. The game doesn't play any better because of it, but I think it's a nice piece of window-dressing that adds to the experience.

Right, that makes sense.

But there's a specific context in which it makes sense: The game has to be easy. For example, you absolutely would not want that in Zelda 1 or Zelda 2. In those games, you had to have good timing, so the lag introduced by gestures would be unacceptable. In Zelda 2, you would frequently spam jump-high-low combination attacks against charging enemies with unblockable weapons in an effort to hit them around their shields, or at least knock them back so they couldn't hit you.

So the point is that the gameplay itself has to be watered down, the challenge has to be removed from the actual game mechanics, because the control interface is laggy and unreliable. If you saddle an easy game with laggy, unreliable controls, you can still win. If you do that to a hard game like the original Punch-Out and map it to a gesture-control device (e.g. Power Glove), the game becomes harder in a bad way because the player loses due to input faults. Good god, imagine a really hard-ass, unforgiving game with motion controls. Like Ninja Gaiden. Holy fuck. My face hurts just thinking about it.

Yes, I agree with all of this.

Penguin Incarnate

Don't encourage him.

Wren

I agree wholeheartedly with defender

jwalk

He's just being a G.A.E.

Antimatter

Penguin Incarnate wrote: »

Don't encourage him.

but maybe if people quit arguing with him he'll go away

Defender

Antimatter wrote: »

Penguin Incarnate wrote: »

Don't encourage him.

but maybe if people quit arguing with him he'll go away

That's stupid. You're stupid.

Antimatter

Defender wrote: »

Antimatter wrote: »

Penguin Incarnate wrote: »

Don't encourage him.

but maybe if people quit arguing with him he'll go away

That's stupid. You're stupid.

While that is true, I was just joking.

Tanolen

Just don't believe in him children.

Defender

Antimatter wrote: »

Defender wrote: »

Antimatter wrote: »

Penguin Incarnate wrote: »

Don't encourage him.

but maybe if people quit arguing with him he'll go away

That's stupid. You're stupid.

While that is true, I was just joking.

Everybody is joking! Your...your face is joking! And your mom's face! Not sure where I'm going with this!

TheySlashThem

joking is for jokers

and the joker

Metzger Meister

ThatDudeOverThere wrote: »

joking is for jokers

and the joker

and the midniiiight toooker

TheySlashThem

some people call him maurice

REEEEE ROWWWW