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[Let's Read MORE] Monster Manual II (1983)
Horseshoe
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Boy that Monster Manual II is exciting. Sexy beast Demogorgon on the cover, all kinds of nifty things and slick-ass statblocks inside. But let's not forget that there was another Monster Manual II. No, not 3rd anything, you young miscreants. I'm talking the first book that ever called itself Monster Manual II, the one written by Mr. Gary Gygax.
Yeah, you go aheand and raise your shield, buddy. That'll help.
Man, this book was something else in its day. Imagine it! ANOTHER Monster Manual! Glee! If you've got a copy, why dontcha play along?
But good gravy... Where will I start?
Yeah, you go aheand and raise your shield, buddy. That'll help.
Man, this book was something else in its day. Imagine it! ANOTHER Monster Manual! Glee! If you've got a copy, why dontcha play along?
But good gravy... Where will I start?
Luckily, on page 5, before we even get to the monsters, there's "How To Use This Book". In AD&D, it was always a good idea to read a page with this title. Because you would probably find yourself looking at a statblock later and wondering in what language was it written.
For example, on page 5 there's a handy table and accompanying paragraph named "Number Ranges". Here, it details what dice rolls are commonly associated with which number ranges. Okay, bear with me here. In AD&D, in a monster statblock, you were not given the actual dice you were to roll for damage, or how many housecats a Cat Lord can summon (I did not make that last one up, FYI). For example, in Monster Manual II we can find our old friend the Monodrone:
Well, seems he has one attack. It does 1-4. You might not have to read the helpful chart on page 5 that lets you know that you should roll a 1d4. Could Mr. Gygax have saved space (and your precious time) by just listing the dice instead of, oh for example... writing down 4-36 and leaving your eyes to bug out instead of just telling you it's 2d12+2d6? The world may never know.
As for the rest of the statblock... man, I don't even want to get into how cumbersome these Monster Manuals were. You had to refer to two different books and a whole bunch of tables just to figure out what the fuck you were going to do when the monster attacks, or someone casts a spell, or any of that shit.
Also of note: on this same table, it is listed that there are two ways of rolling 3-12: 3d4 and 1d10+2. Now, the first of these has an asterisk next to it. An asterisk that is not explained anywhere in this section of the book. Never let it be said that RPG book editing is worse than it used to be. It's equally faulty.
Let's move on soon. Next, I will be doing a little comparison of some of the AD&D Monster Manual II cast members with their 4th edition counterparts. If you also have this book, join in!
For example, on page 5 there's a handy table and accompanying paragraph named "Number Ranges". Here, it details what dice rolls are commonly associated with which number ranges. Okay, bear with me here. In AD&D, in a monster statblock, you were not given the actual dice you were to roll for damage, or how many housecats a Cat Lord can summon (I did not make that last one up, FYI). For example, in Monster Manual II we can find our old friend the Monodrone:
Well, seems he has one attack. It does 1-4. You might not have to read the helpful chart on page 5 that lets you know that you should roll a 1d4. Could Mr. Gygax have saved space (and your precious time) by just listing the dice instead of, oh for example... writing down 4-36 and leaving your eyes to bug out instead of just telling you it's 2d12+2d6? The world may never know.
As for the rest of the statblock... man, I don't even want to get into how cumbersome these Monster Manuals were. You had to refer to two different books and a whole bunch of tables just to figure out what the fuck you were going to do when the monster attacks, or someone casts a spell, or any of that shit.
Also of note: on this same table, it is listed that there are two ways of rolling 3-12: 3d4 and 1d10+2. Now, the first of these has an asterisk next to it. An asterisk that is not explained anywhere in this section of the book. Never let it be said that RPG book editing is worse than it used to be. It's equally faulty.
ALSO! SEXY NEW INDEX FOR GOOD LOOKING PEOPLE
- A - Aboleth
- B - Behir
- C - Catlord. ugh
- D - Duergar
- E - Executioner's Hood. yes, really.
- F - Fucking Froghemoth
- G - Galeb Duhr
- H - No post yet.
- I - There are no monsters starting with I in the manual!
- J - No post yet.
- K - Korred
- L - Lycanthrope: Wereshark
- M - Myconid! They're Awesome.
- N - Nereid heralds the triumphant (?) return of this thread.
- O - The Obliviax rides again!
Horseshoe on
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or that you encounter 12d12 of these things, and they either have 1 attack each or no attacks each?
(also the HD thing isn't consistent either. for Solars, Planetars, Major Demons, etc it will say "Hit Dice:" and then just tell you how many hit points the monster has)
Or is that the previous edition?
According to the text, Monodrones are "single-function Modrons, and are generally assigned some simple labor" and are known for their "unswerving singleminded performance. They exist for work and what limited conversations they can carry on usually concern their functions."
I'm sure that some of them would be on janitorial duty.
And yeah, U'ko. there are 19 Dinosaurs in this book, ranging from as little as 1 to as many as 14 hit dice.
In AD&D you still have to refer to tables for monster attacks and whatnot. I think the reason for this was so that you could adjust the hit dice of the monsters and not have to recalculate attacks and hp from what was printed in the statblocks.
Still, I find it incredibly inconvenient and prefer to just look up a monster and know exactly what to roll, as we have in recent editions.
edit: maybe I'll start with one of the demons though, since wizards has the stats for many of them already available.
http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article73.htm
Duckbunnies, the ultimate expression of our modern version of "Easter".
Love 'em.
That was such a dick move Gygax.
AFAIK, Gygax is widely renowned as being a dick DM.
touch 'em and you die
one is a portal
the only way to find out which one is right is to touch it?
Basically it's a bunch of riddles and you can't really rely on your character's mechanics to survive it for the most part.
The last enemy was a Lich of sorts that had low hit points was nearly impossible to damage. The best way to destroy it was by throwing the priceless treasure in the room at it. The more valuable the gems were, the higher the damage it did.
Also most of the treasure chests were trapped (some inflicted damage that could not be avoided at all) and were also bereft of any actual treasure.
So you were likely to walk out empty-handed just so as not to die.
Friend of mine defeated the demilich with unseen servant (oh, italicized spell names, how I miss thee) and ye olde bag of holding + portable hole trick.
And it wasn't a bunch of spheres of annihilation plus a portal; it was one "portal" which was really a sphere of annihilation.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
If you are playing Expedition to the Barrier peaks, don't touch anything the wizard/SMARTGUY hasn't rolled a twenty on.
I think of all the books I've seen, barrier peaks is my favorite.
EDIT: Are they really re-doing it? I thought that was like, a big pipe-dream in the works for the last 5 years or so.
twitch.tv/tehsloth
/violin?
The adventure is over twenty years old. If people don't already know the gag for Barrier Peaks, they aren't doing it (i.e. D&D) right. That's like crying over me revealing that Darth Vader is Luke's father.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
Dude, shut up.
Especially about the duck.
basically.
it was published in 1980.
it's WELL PAST having to be spoiled, seriously.
edit: Basically, don't come into a thread about 1980s D&D books and bitch about 1980s dnd spoilers o_O
Although I would have to grant that most people playing D&D today weren't alive in 1980.
Back to the subject at hand, I wonder if the band Primus got their name from MMII.
"Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
Yep. This one, if I remember correctly. The one that the wizardly looking fellow is peering into as if to suggest that going in is a good idea.
If you stuck your head into it to get a better look, you died. The text pretty much literally says this.
Today's Aboleth is a nasty and formidable opponent, to be sure. I shall not post the statblock since we have a current edition that is actually functional without referring to three different books and shit like that. The 4e Aboleth goes something like this.
The particularly nasty Aboleth Overseer can:
- Excrete a Mucus Haze aura that causes difficult terrain.
- Whip players with a tentacle.
- Daze players by coating them in disgusting slime.
- Dominate one creature at a time by attacking its will defense.
- Enslave a dominated creature. This is extra bad... you sorta-die and become its icky servant.
- Can turn invisible like... more or less every round.
I think WoTC kept the spirit of the first incarnation quite well. The Original Recipe Aboleth was quite similar... just stupider-looking and designed to better sodomize players through their chainmail pants. Here we see its hideous and inscrutable visage as well as its even more hideous and inscrutable stats.Ech. Disgusting. And the picture is pretty ugly too.
Let's compare, shall we? Ye aboleth of yesteryear might:
- Secrete a cloud of mucus that will suffocate and kill you you win 2-12 rounds if you don't save vs. poison.
- Whip you with its four tentacles.
- On a successful tentacle whip, turn your skin into a slimy membrane that causes you to take damage when exposed to oxygen. If you don't have a cleric with enough cure serious wounds for everyone, you are boned.
- Enslave you with its illusions, which will compel you to be its bitch if you fail to save vs. spells. You can only save against being one of its yucky servants once per day if you are separated it by more than a mile. On the plus side, you won't drown in its mucus and you can't be made to attack your allies... well, unless you want to.
The old aboleth is a bit less awful than the Overseer, but compared to the Lasher and Slime Mage, is pretty goddamned awful.God damn I do not miss save or be utterly dead and/or traumatizingly molested effects.
IOS Game Center ID: Isotope-X
Wait, what do you mean were?
modrons probably don't even exist in 4e
and even if they do, without the great wheel, who cares
2nd edition didn't have a Manual of the Planes, and Planescape didn't come around until 1994.
Somehow Modrons managed to exist without the Great Wheel.
They didn't get cool 'til Planescape.
Remember Full Throttle?
Also, what's the next monster, Horseshoe? Bodak? Basilisk? Behemoth?
My vote's for Behir.
Tomorrow.
Today's Behir is a big and bad. I said that though. I shall not post the statblock since we have a current edition that is actually functional without referring to three different books and shit like that. The 4e Behir goes something like this.
With that many hands he can throw out hella gang signs, broseph.
The particularly nasty Behir can:
- Bite, Claw and Stomp you into last week.
- Breathe friggin lightning on you. Because he's blue. It means lightning.
- Daze players by coating them in disgusting slime.
- Act three times in one round. Damn, son.
- Devour you. A Behir can down you like a kicking, screaming body shot in Tijuana on senior year spring break. Actually that was pretty okay. Anyhow, it's like a grab attack, but does some damage and prevents you from attacking anything but the Behir. Which is kind of cool because this is your chance to cut yourself out of its guts.
Today's Behir is a pussy by comparison to the old one. I mean, a goddamn 12 hit dice monster back then was horrible. That's more hit dice than a goddamn Dragon... even the metallics. The only dragons with more hit dice than a Behir were Bahamut and Tiamat. Today's Behir is a mere paragon level solo.See that look? He's pondering what's a good wine pairing for you.
Let's compare, shall we? Ye Behir of yesteryear might:
- Claw your ass six times in one round.
- Cast lightning on you for a set amount of damage (not sure if this is a typo, but as written you're boned) unless you save against spells.
- Swallows you whole if the DM rolls a 20... no saving throw. Considering that it attacks six times in a round this is very likely. It's swallow effect is "similar" to a Purple Worm, leaving you at the DM's mercy. Purple Worms, incidentally, would kill you in six rounds if they swallowed you. Again, no saving throw. And if you were in there for 12 turns, you were utterly destroyed and could not be raised from the dead. If something pounded you down like drive-thru, you were fucked.
The old Behir was something you hoped to the gods that your DM did not summon against you.