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Man every adult I have known who worked in some manner of engineering, or had some form of engineering qualitifcations was an absoluteley arrogant cock-head.
edit: The only exception is my friend who is currently on his Civil Engineering degree, but he's a long-standing friend, not exactly an "adult".
Arrogance is an unfortunate side effect of people who have confidence.
Confidence is required to an engineer.
Do you really want a dude who can't decide what shoes to wear to decide how your building stands up.
screenwriting is a pretty unique animal, pooro. you can pick up a william goldman book and have the basics you need to start writing it.
prose writing, criticism (geared towards publication/academia) or publishing industry stuff might require a bit more guidance, you know? an english degree =/= your job.
But I feel like there are equivalent resources out there for other types of writing, if investigated thoroughly enough. Like, when I first started writing, I dabbled in prose. There was a site that started out revolving around Chuck Palahniuk that later branched out into discussions of broader modern sorta "transgressive" fiction. They'd host regular writing workshops with contemporary authors like Will Christopher Baer, Craig Clevenger, Max Barry. And I feel that if I, someone who wasn't even that into prose writing, could find something that helpful, someone who was really looking could find even more impressive and useful sites.
Again, though, that's more the "art" side of it. Writing for academia would kinda naturally require being immersed in academia. Problem is, the vast majority of English majors ain't like Pk and aiming for academia.
Poorochondriac on
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
The hobos in my area aren't aggressive at all. This one young white dude is fucking annoying though.
I guess. I don't know, man. I could renounce my degree and demand a refund? what it really comes down to is that i think it's important and you don't, and i kind of look askance at the fact that you're putting it down without really having experience in that area.
and you know i have the most tremendous respect for you, pooro. i'm just so tired of having the 'english majors are useless' argument, and would rather go out and make a living and prove its worth that way.
I've been to Dexter once or twice. Once, now that I think about it. I used to live in a special part of Nowhere called Holly. If you can find it, you can keep it.
I was in Marquette back about two years ago, driving through to Ontonagon and Bruce's Crossing. My wife is from that area. Beautiful country.
I also posted once about people feeding the bears through a chickenwire fence up there. I had pictures, but I have since lost them.
I've been to Holly a time or two. There was a big Cross Country meet we ran in every year. The course always had big holes in it that they marked off by painting orange circles around them and maybe putting up a cone.
I guess. I don't know, man. I could renounce my degree and demand a refund? what it really comes down to is that i think it's important and you don't, and i kind of look askance at the fact that you're putting it down without really having experience in that area.
and you know i have the most tremendous respect for you, pooro. i'm just so tired of having the 'english majors are useless' argument, and would rather go out and make a living and prove its worth that way.
I've not had experience with the programs themselves, just with the sorta folks they've generated. Who, by and large, don't seem to have gotten much out of the years/money that they couldn't have acquired elsewhere. It's obvious it generates results for some folks, like yourself and Pk, and that's awesome.
But I think we can all agree that a whole convention of English majors would basically be a nighmare
for english conventions i always just look at the papers that are going to be read and the panels that are going to be presented and go to those and studiously ignore all the non-hot people in attendance
really, I think it's worth it for anyone to go to college so long as they have the means
do something you want to do so you enjoy your degree, but get that degree
if you were able to get the jobs you want without one, you'll certainly be able to get the same jobs with one, while also meeting qualifications for other things in the future
my dad has had a terrible time every time he loses his job because he's been a warehouse supervisor for like 20 years. this isn't a job that requires a specific education, but nearly all of the large companies (who are the only ones offering decent benefits) require that you have a degree. this was obviously not the norm 20 years ago, but it is now.
the worst part is, because he's not qualified for big companies, he's stuck looking at small ones who aren't requiring that you have a degree, which not only means less benefits, but a lot of dismissive "you're way too overqualified for this" interviews
I'm not saying writing is like warehouse supervising, but your college degree isn't only useful immediately after graduation, and it would fucking blow to find out years down the line that you're stuck without a job or in one you can't rise higher up the ladder in because you decided to snub the degree when you were young
The hobos in my area aren't aggressive at all. This one young white dude is fucking annoying though.
We don't really have "hobos" down here
it's kind of odd moving from California to Texas
I always get jumpy around any hobos because where I'm from all the crazy people just drink themselves to death quietly and don't bother anyone. I'm not used to dealing with the aggressive inner city types.
The hobos in my area aren't aggressive at all. This one young white dude is fucking annoying though.
We don't really have "hobos" down here
it's kind of odd moving from California to Texas
I always get jumpy around any hobos because where I'm from all the crazy people just drink themselves to death quietly and don't bother anyone. I'm not used to dealing with the aggressive inner city types.
Yeah, I guess the opposite change would be kind of odd.
I used to have a friend that would sit outside a Heroes comic store and pan handle after school got out. Guy would actually make a fair amount, though I can't imagine how he didn't feel bad doing it.
for english conventions i always just look at the papers that are going to be read and the panels that are going to be presented and go to those and studiously ignore all the non-hot people in attendance
This is a pretty good technique. You'll come across some fairly talented writers there and maybe hear some good stuff.
Or you'll hear some prick with a ponytail read a poem called "5 AM Reading Poetry."
God that was a terrible poem.
Mongrel Idiot on
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MetalbourneInside a cluster b personalityRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
I love it when they hang outside food places and try to pull your sympathy strings. One time I was in a quiznos and this stupid fucker was staring at me through the window with puppy dog eyes. I wanted to go out there and stomp on his face but I'm a nice guy.
One time a drunk Chechen invited me to his place for tea.
I accepted, and had a good time.
He offered us vodka. I said (at least I think I said) "No thank you. The tea is good." in mangled pseudo-Russian, and one of the other guys very politely explained that we preferred not to drink alcohol.
Later, I think it was the same night, the man I was staying with broke out the bottle because one of the other Americans in the house had indigestion. I was a little surprised, because while most Muslims thereabouts drink, he seemed a little more devout than most. I tried to refuse, but our host doesn't speak a lick of English, no one in else spoke Russian, and "No thank you" apparently wasn't good enough. I declined until he started looking a little annoyed, so then I accepted. We had a good time, and the toasts were spaced out enough and he was willing to pour mine a little short so I didn't get honestly drunk. He was a lot warmer to both of us after that which paved the way for some other great things that happened later.
tl;dr- had tea with a drunken Chechen, vodka with a devout Muslim.
When I was at a McDonalds in Romania, a street kid begged off us. We weren't allowed to give anyone money according to the rules of the group I was traveling with, but they didn't say anything about food.
I took her up to the counter, she ordered a happy meal and thanked me. We saw her later sharing it with her dad and older brother. The rest of the group was a little peeved, thinking her dad was using his daughter to scam people. That kinda pissed me off. They were eating, weren't they? What's the problem with that?
When I was at a McDonalds in Romania, a street kid begged off us. We weren't allowed to give anyone money according to the rules of the group I was traveling with, but they didn't say anything about food.
I took her up to the counter, she ordered a happy meal and thanked me. We saw her later sharing it with her dad and older brother. The rest of the group was a little peeved, thinking her dad was using his daughter to scam people. That kinda pissed me off. They were eating, weren't they? What's the problem with that?
When I was at a McDonalds in Romania, a street kid begged off us. We weren't allowed to give anyone money according to the rules of the group I was traveling with, but they didn't say anything about food.
I took her up to the counter, she ordered a happy meal and thanked me. We saw her later sharing it with her dad and older brother. The rest of the group was a little peeved, thinking her dad was using his daughter to scam people. That kinda pissed me off. They were eating, weren't they? What's the problem with that?
It always struck me as a wildly unnecessary major - if you want to write, write. If you want to read and analyze literature, read and analyze literature. There is absolutely nothing an instructor can provide you with that you can not find elsewhere. And without paying ten grand a year, even.
it got me experience in publishing and local publishing industry contacts which allowed me to get a sweet job, and there's no way i'd have got that publishing experience as easily and effectively elsewhere
but, you know
uesless major
I just have a hard time believing that four years and thousands upon thousands of dollars are necessary to make contacts/garner experience.
Think of it this way.
Most every professor you might have in college, english or otherwise, has been published. They have real experience writing and can teach you the tricks of the trade if you take the time to ask them about it.
For a writer, I think that would be one of the biggest advantage.
There was a time when that was certainly the case, no denying that. But, at the risk of sounding like a cliche, this is a different era. I won't speak about prose writing, as it's not my area of expertise, but as for screenwriting, there are astounding (free) resources out there for people teaching themselves the craft. From established people, too. And more importantly (in my book), still in the midst of active careers. It's advice and answers from people who haven't settled on their laurels, as it were, to teach.
There are websites like Pilot School (http://tvwriting.googlepages.com/pilotschool), which collects the pilot scripts that launched series and careers, so you can compare and contrast successful scripts to see what makes them tick. The Internet Movie Script Database (http://www.imsdb.com/) proves a similar resource for feature-length scripts. And the Writer's Guild library here in L.A. has EVEN MORE, and is open for free to the public at large.
It really isn't difficult for a motivated person to teach themselves, if they're sufficiently passionate. And if they aren't passionate enough, why are they bothering to try?
so we've established that one form of writing has plenty of bloggers for those who want to teach themselves.
llllllet's talk about other things that aren't screenwriting and decide that you can get away without going to college, huh?
Man every adult I have known who worked in some manner of engineering, or had some form of engineering qualitifcations was an absoluteley arrogant cock-head.
edit: The only exception is my friend who is currently on his Civil Engineering degree, but he's a long-standing friend, not exactly an "adult".
Arrogance is an unfortunate side effect of people who have confidence.
Confidence is required to an engineer.
Do you really want a dude who can't decide what shoes to wear to decide how your building stands up.
I'd be inclined to disagree with the "arrogance is a side-effect of confidence" argument, but I see your point.
Also these people I've known can be pretty fucking condescending too.
When I was at a McDonalds in Romania, a street kid begged off us. We weren't allowed to give anyone money according to the rules of the group I was traveling with, but they didn't say anything about food.
I took her up to the counter, she ordered a happy meal and thanked me. We saw her later sharing it with her dad and older brother. The rest of the group was a little peeved, thinking her dad was using his daughter to scam people. That kinda pissed me off. They were eating, weren't they? What's the problem with that?
Helping people is against the rules, bro.
haha, this is the best thing, because weren't you there through a Christian humanitarian program?
I just needed to say my part, dogg. Didn't want to let you get away thinking you won, when there are too many disciplines for your success story to be something, well, worthwhile - we're all pieces of shit.
ps HYPOTHETICALLY if i were to come to socal this spring would you actually be around this time
I just needed to say my part, dogg. Didn't want to let you get away thinking you won, when there are too many disciplines for your success story to be something, well, worthwhile - we're all pieces of shit.
ps HYPOTHETICALLY if i were to come to socal this spring would you actually be around this time
And we already talked about other disciplines, goober. Did you just skip that page or somethin'?
And probably, yeah. But I pretty much never plan things out more than three days in advance, so there's no telling
I just needed to say my part, dogg. Didn't want to let you get away thinking you won, when there are too many disciplines for your success story to be something, well, worthwhile - we're all pieces of shit.
ps HYPOTHETICALLY if i were to come to socal this spring would you actually be around this time
And we already talked about other disciplines, goober. Did you just skip that page or somethin'?
And probably, yeah. But I pretty much never plan things out more than three days in advance, so there's no telling
When I was at a McDonalds in Romania, a street kid begged off us. We weren't allowed to give anyone money according to the rules of the group I was traveling with, but they didn't say anything about food.
I took her up to the counter, she ordered a happy meal and thanked me. We saw her later sharing it with her dad and older brother. The rest of the group was a little peeved, thinking her dad was using his daughter to scam people. That kinda pissed me off. They were eating, weren't they? What's the problem with that?
Helping people is against the rules, bro.
haha, this is the best thing, because weren't you there through a Christian humanitarian program?
The rule is there to protect the staff and trip-goers against scammers. Middle-aged American women who can't figure out currency conversion are an easy way to make a living in some places, and are also this group's prime demographic. I've heard more than one story of someone getting off the plane, giving what the nice homeless man assured them was enough for a quick bite, only to find out they were out fifty bucks. It's a stupid rule necessary to protect stupider people.
When word got back to the people in charge, they thought I did good and clarified that it was perfectly a-ok as far as rules and policy go. They just don't want people handing out cash. Even if I had given her cash, I doubt they'd have cared. Even if they did care, what could they have done about it? Sent me home?
On that same trip I got just a little buzzed off some rum chocolate. I though the alcohol content would be negligible, but I was wrong. Maybe it was just because I ate a whole gigantic bar pretty much by myself. I don't think anyone noticed, I was pretty wired on caffeine most of the time anyway so they were used to me being loud and excitable.
About six or seven weeks ago I was driving from Nashville to New Orleans, heading south through Alabama and then Mississippi. I got a late start, and spent much of the evening driving. At a certain point, likely after midnight, I decided to pull off the road because I couldn't keep driving. I saw not a single rest area, but Parking Areas which were just places to park without facilities. Not altogether odd, just not what I would have preferred. But be that as it may, I pulled off the road, pulled out a gallon of water in a jug, brushed my teeth, washed my face, and proceeded to jump in the back seat and pass out. After being awoken by the sound of trucks coming and going a few times, I eventually rested peacefully.
Morning came, and all seemed well. There were a few trucks left, a white car with a little white dog, and a white haired man not too far off, and me. I got up, went about brushing my teeth and washing my face yet again, and the white haired guy wandered off towards the woods or something. There were a bunch of trees and an 18 wheeler and that was about it. Kinda wondered where he wandered off to, but didn't care all that much, and went back to my car. Popped the hood to check the oil, but the car being new, and having the transmission fluid in the place the oil was in the car I had for 9 years prior, I pulled it out, realized my mistake, and put it back, about to check the oil for real this time, when the old white hared man wanders back over from wherever he was, just passing me by as he heads to his car.
I smile and nod, and he does likewise, then stops and makes some gestures with his hands whilst saying, "Man, the dick on him was like this long and this big around" he says. Based on the gestures, it was indeed sizable.
I have no idea what he is talking about. Is there a dead moose over in the woods? What is happening right now? I do not know, so I simply do what I always do when I don't know what someone is talking about and don't care, I smile, nod, and say something non-commital. "Neat."
He replies, "You want me to suck you?"
Oh. Now I get it. That lone truck...well then.
I do not check my oil, I politely say, "Um, no, I'm good." and I go on my merry way. That was my one human interaction in the entire state of Mississippi. Fucking Mississippi jesus fucking christ.
I can't wait to go to Eastern Europe for Peace Corps. Some old man givin' me moonshine in a rusty tin cup while talking to me about the locals
I mean, also dealing with the awful situations some people are in sure, but moonshine in a tin cup
There's a chance that the moonshine is wood-alcohol, which is much more likely to blind or kill you than normal moonshine. It's more popular in rural Russia (where they'll make moonshine out of anything), but there's a strong chance in pretty much any form Soviet or Soviet satellite nation. It's probably still worth it, though.
Also, buy some vodka. Check how much you can bring home, because there is a limit, probably a couple liters but maybe less. Even the slightly cheap stuff is better than the real expensive stuff back here.
Can you say where you're going? What kinda stuff are you doing?
It's secondary school TESL to be sure, somewhere in Eastern Europe (no way of knowing till Christmas-ish), but there are always other community programs to help out with, so the job is kind of dynamic.
When I was at a McDonalds in Romania, a street kid begged off us. We weren't allowed to give anyone money according to the rules of the group I was traveling with, but they didn't say anything about food.
I took her up to the counter, she ordered a happy meal and thanked me. We saw her later sharing it with her dad and older brother. The rest of the group was a little peeved, thinking her dad was using his daughter to scam people. That kinda pissed me off. They were eating, weren't they? What's the problem with that?
goddamn
that would be understandable if you saw him drinking liquor he'd bought with money you had given his daughter, but yeah you did the right thing
Druhim on
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FalloutGIRL'S DAYWAS PRETTY GOOD WHILE THEY LASTEDRegistered Userregular
Man, my sister was in the peace corps, and is going back again.
I don't have any skills at all that would be of import to the Peace Corps, since playing music isn't exactly high on third world countries priority list.
However, I am very, very seriously considering joining the Military as a musician, so that I can help my country, with a stupid cush and well-paying job(for a musician), with skills I actually have.
we have a pretty broad gamut of homeless people here in Seattle
usually they'll just ask for some money, some change
sometimes they'll try to give you some ridiculous story
almost always I've been able to just turn them away politely
every once in a while you get one that's more persistent or even aggressive, but generally those are the ones that seem to be pretty unbalanced
I just walk away from them if I feel like they might become a problem
Druhim on
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FalloutGIRL'S DAYWAS PRETTY GOOD WHILE THEY LASTEDRegistered Userregular
edited July 2009
giving money to the needy is like feeding the pigeons at the park
sure it seems nice, but in reality you're just keeping them from dying
Posts
Arrogance is an unfortunate side effect of people who have confidence.
Confidence is required to an engineer.
Do you really want a dude who can't decide what shoes to wear to decide how your building stands up.
Satans..... hints.....
it was quite the thing to watch
But I feel like there are equivalent resources out there for other types of writing, if investigated thoroughly enough. Like, when I first started writing, I dabbled in prose. There was a site that started out revolving around Chuck Palahniuk that later branched out into discussions of broader modern sorta "transgressive" fiction. They'd host regular writing workshops with contemporary authors like Will Christopher Baer, Craig Clevenger, Max Barry. And I feel that if I, someone who wasn't even that into prose writing, could find something that helpful, someone who was really looking could find even more impressive and useful sites.
Again, though, that's more the "art" side of it. Writing for academia would kinda naturally require being immersed in academia. Problem is, the vast majority of English majors ain't like Pk and aiming for academia.
and you know i have the most tremendous respect for you, pooro. i'm just so tired of having the 'english majors are useless' argument, and would rather go out and make a living and prove its worth that way.
I like it up here a lot better than downstate.
We don't really have "hobos" down here
it's kind of odd moving from California to Texas
XBL
I've not had experience with the programs themselves, just with the sorta folks they've generated. Who, by and large, don't seem to have gotten much out of the years/money that they couldn't have acquired elsewhere. It's obvious it generates results for some folks, like yourself and Pk, and that's awesome.
But I think we can all agree that a whole convention of English majors would basically be a nighmare
for english conventions i always just look at the papers that are going to be read and the panels that are going to be presented and go to those and studiously ignore all the non-hot people in attendance
So fuck it, who am I to judge?
do something you want to do so you enjoy your degree, but get that degree
if you were able to get the jobs you want without one, you'll certainly be able to get the same jobs with one, while also meeting qualifications for other things in the future
my dad has had a terrible time every time he loses his job because he's been a warehouse supervisor for like 20 years. this isn't a job that requires a specific education, but nearly all of the large companies (who are the only ones offering decent benefits) require that you have a degree. this was obviously not the norm 20 years ago, but it is now.
the worst part is, because he's not qualified for big companies, he's stuck looking at small ones who aren't requiring that you have a degree, which not only means less benefits, but a lot of dismissive "you're way too overqualified for this" interviews
I'm not saying writing is like warehouse supervising, but your college degree isn't only useful immediately after graduation, and it would fucking blow to find out years down the line that you're stuck without a job or in one you can't rise higher up the ladder in because you decided to snub the degree when you were young
I always get jumpy around any hobos because where I'm from all the crazy people just drink themselves to death quietly and don't bother anyone. I'm not used to dealing with the aggressive inner city types.
whoever runs that now should partner up with Capcom
a Phoenix Wright-themed kids' camp
Yeah, I guess the opposite change would be kind of odd.
I used to have a friend that would sit outside a Heroes comic store and pan handle after school got out. Guy would actually make a fair amount, though I can't imagine how he didn't feel bad doing it.
XBL
Or you'll hear some prick with a ponytail read a poem called "5 AM Reading Poetry."
God that was a terrible poem.
I accepted, and had a good time.
He offered us vodka. I said (at least I think I said) "No thank you. The tea is good." in mangled pseudo-Russian, and one of the other guys very politely explained that we preferred not to drink alcohol.
Later, I think it was the same night, the man I was staying with broke out the bottle because one of the other Americans in the house had indigestion. I was a little surprised, because while most Muslims thereabouts drink, he seemed a little more devout than most. I tried to refuse, but our host doesn't speak a lick of English, no one in else spoke Russian, and "No thank you" apparently wasn't good enough. I declined until he started looking a little annoyed, so then I accepted. We had a good time, and the toasts were spaced out enough and he was willing to pour mine a little short so I didn't get honestly drunk. He was a lot warmer to both of us after that which paved the way for some other great things that happened later.
tl;dr- had tea with a drunken Chechen, vodka with a devout Muslim.
I took her up to the counter, she ordered a happy meal and thanked me. We saw her later sharing it with her dad and older brother. The rest of the group was a little peeved, thinking her dad was using his daughter to scam people. That kinda pissed me off. They were eating, weren't they? What's the problem with that?
Helping people is against the rules, bro.
XBL
It's a good thing I'm a rebel then.
so we've established that one form of writing has plenty of bloggers for those who want to teach themselves.
llllllet's talk about other things that aren't screenwriting and decide that you can get away without going to college, huh?
I'd be inclined to disagree with the "arrogance is a side-effect of confidence" argument, but I see your point.
Also these people I've known can be pretty fucking condescending too.
haha, this is the best thing, because weren't you there through a Christian humanitarian program?
I just needed to say my part, dogg. Didn't want to let you get away thinking you won, when there are too many disciplines for your success story to be something, well, worthwhile - we're all pieces of shit.
ps HYPOTHETICALLY if i were to come to socal this spring would you actually be around this time
And we already talked about other disciplines, goober. Did you just skip that page or somethin'?
And probably, yeah. But I pretty much never plan things out more than three days in advance, so there's no telling
I sparks notes'd it.
The rule is there to protect the staff and trip-goers against scammers. Middle-aged American women who can't figure out currency conversion are an easy way to make a living in some places, and are also this group's prime demographic. I've heard more than one story of someone getting off the plane, giving what the nice homeless man assured them was enough for a quick bite, only to find out they were out fifty bucks. It's a stupid rule necessary to protect stupider people.
When word got back to the people in charge, they thought I did good and clarified that it was perfectly a-ok as far as rules and policy go. They just don't want people handing out cash. Even if I had given her cash, I doubt they'd have cared. Even if they did care, what could they have done about it? Sent me home?
On that same trip I got just a little buzzed off some rum chocolate. I though the alcohol content would be negligible, but I was wrong. Maybe it was just because I ate a whole gigantic bar pretty much by myself. I don't think anyone noticed, I was pretty wired on caffeine most of the time anyway so they were used to me being loud and excitable.
It was some really tasty chocolate.
I mean, also dealing with the awful situations some people are in sure, but moonshine in a tin cup
Morning came, and all seemed well. There were a few trucks left, a white car with a little white dog, and a white haired man not too far off, and me. I got up, went about brushing my teeth and washing my face yet again, and the white haired guy wandered off towards the woods or something. There were a bunch of trees and an 18 wheeler and that was about it. Kinda wondered where he wandered off to, but didn't care all that much, and went back to my car. Popped the hood to check the oil, but the car being new, and having the transmission fluid in the place the oil was in the car I had for 9 years prior, I pulled it out, realized my mistake, and put it back, about to check the oil for real this time, when the old white hared man wanders back over from wherever he was, just passing me by as he heads to his car.
I smile and nod, and he does likewise, then stops and makes some gestures with his hands whilst saying, "Man, the dick on him was like this long and this big around" he says. Based on the gestures, it was indeed sizable.
I have no idea what he is talking about. Is there a dead moose over in the woods? What is happening right now? I do not know, so I simply do what I always do when I don't know what someone is talking about and don't care, I smile, nod, and say something non-commital. "Neat."
He replies, "You want me to suck you?"
Oh. Now I get it. That lone truck...well then.
I do not check my oil, I politely say, "Um, no, I'm good." and I go on my merry way. That was my one human interaction in the entire state of Mississippi. Fucking Mississippi jesus fucking christ.
Also, buy some vodka. Check how much you can bring home, because there is a limit, probably a couple liters but maybe less. Even the slightly cheap stuff is better than the real expensive stuff back here.
Can you say where you're going? What kinda stuff are you doing?
that would be understandable if you saw him drinking liquor he'd bought with money you had given his daughter, but yeah you did the right thing
HEH
I don't have any skills at all that would be of import to the Peace Corps, since playing music isn't exactly high on third world countries priority list.
However, I am very, very seriously considering joining the Military as a musician, so that I can help my country, with a stupid cush and well-paying job(for a musician), with skills I actually have.
Love the random helping of people.
One guy even shouts out the weather
usually they'll just ask for some money, some change
sometimes they'll try to give you some ridiculous story
almost always I've been able to just turn them away politely
every once in a while you get one that's more persistent or even aggressive, but generally those are the ones that seem to be pretty unbalanced
I just walk away from them if I feel like they might become a problem
sure it seems nice, but in reality you're just keeping them from dying