Dog question

Elin

Some of you may remember I posted a thread about my dog getting attacked a while back. I now have another question. Ever since that, when he's near a bigger dog he whines and barks. He's not being aggressive, but he acts pretty scared. I want to get him over this some how so I've been taking him around the bigger dogs for small amounts of time when I'm holding him or staying close so I can protect him if/when he feels threatened.

My question is ... is this the right way to go about getting him over his doggy anxiety? I like big dogs and was planning on getting one when I have a yard, but if he's scared of all big dogs that's out the window.

Kendeathwalker

Youd propably be fine getting another dog. The will fight on occasion but it sounds like the smaller one doesnt have much fight in him so the bigger dog would just be dominant (Thats how dogs work.. Alphas and all that shit). Just seperate their feeding areas and give them treats seperately, dont thow them down on the floor near both of them.


Dont really see anyway for you to rehabilitate your dog. Its like a burn vicitim being uncomfortable near fire, gonna take em awhile if ever to get used it again.

Inkogneetoh

I think your going around things the right way. He might not get over it until he is around bigger dogs who dont attack him around for a longer period of time.

Do you have any friends with larger dogs which you could babysit for a while?

Also about getting a bigger dog once you have a yard, would you be getting it as a pup? Because if they grew up together, they should be fine. It might take dominance over the smaller dog, but shouldn't be agressive due to the bonding that happens overtime (assuming you dont show any favouritism to the new pup)

Kistra

I agree that you should be fine getting another dog. Dogs react very differently to dogs that they live with compared to random dogs on the street.

It shouldn't be that hard to get your dog over this. You want to use a desensitization/counter-condition (ds/cc) protocol. Basically you want to associate the presence of big dogs with good things happening (think pavlov and his dogs).

First you need to figure out what distance your dog starts to get anxious at. Then back up one step. Feed your dog while big dogs are in sight. Stop feeding him any time they leave his sight. After at most 5 min leave. The next day come back and get a foot closer to the big dogs before you feed him. If 5 minutes is too long you can take breaks by getting further away from the big dogs and doing something that your dog likes (playing ball? scratches?)

Don't worry if some days your dog can't handle being as close as he was the day before. Just work with your dog where he is at and over time you will be able to get closer. High protein kibble or actual lean meat is ideal for ds/cc. It doesn't sound like your dog is completely freaking out or anything so this should work. If you think your dog is completely freaking out you might want to go through something like Karen Overall's relaxation protocol. Also if your local library has any books by Emma Parsons they describe and break down ds/cc into much smaller pieces than I have here.

Battle Jesus

Find people with large, friendly dogs that will completely ignore your dog (ask a trainer, they might be able to help you find some). This will make your dog less nervous (eye contact/attention from other dogs usually makes nervousness and fear worse - avoiding those two makes starting out a lot easier).

Take your dog on a long walk before you take him to visit said dog. This will tire him out - he'll be less nervous and anxious when he's tired.

Get your dog to be totally relaxed (sitting, not really paying attention to much, or lying down and about to take a nap would be ideal) and then bring out the big dog.

Have the large dog sit beside your dog, but NOT FACING your dog (facing away or to the side, preferably). Keep your dog calm (via rewards for being calm - treats, attention, etc). If he gets interested in the other dog and starts sniffing, even better, but I doubt that'll happen right away.

If your dog starts to get nervous, don't pick him up, or pet him or anything; that just reinforces the nervousness. Just calm him down by distracting him with treats, bring him about 10-20 feet away, and restart the exercise. Keep going until your dog associates "relaxation" with "that big dog over there." It might only take one or two tries, it might take several dozen. Stay patient.

Repeat until big dogs are no longer a problem for your dog. It could take 10, 20, 30+ interactions with different dogs until he gets over it; but this is probably one of the best ways to do it.

Also, once your dog starts showing progress, you can up the challenges by having 2-3 large dogs visit your dog, different types of introduction (your dog getting sniffed by a large dog, your dog sniffing a large dog, maybe a face-to-face meeting).

Note: while you're doing this make sure not to be nervous, anxous, anything like that. Just be positive and relaxed. Dogs read body language unbelievably well; and if you're nervous they will know it and respond by being nervous (even though they might not know what they're being nervous about). This could have the unfortunate side effect of having the dog relate "being nervous" with "that big dog over there." Not what you want.

If the above doesn't work for whatever reason then find a trainer who has experience with this sort of thing, and get their help. A good trainer (found via references from the trainer or online sources) is worth their weight in gold. In fact, you should get a trainer anyway.

Kistra

I think Battle Jesus has some really good suggestions for how to get your dog used to greeting big dogs again. But unless the anxiety is pretty mild and doesn't start until the big dog is close I would start further away and work up to having the big dog near your dog no matter how much they are ignoring your dog.

Also a semantics issue. It is impossible to reinforce fear or nervousness. Fear and nervousness are emotions. Reinforce is an operant conditioning term. By definition operant conditioning only applies to behaviors.

Look at your own dog. If calmly talking to your dog/holding it/petting it is making your dog feel better than your are communicating your own lack of fear and helping your dog. If your dog seems to be getting worse you are reinforcing the behaviors of anxiety (whining, pulling ears back ect) and your dog will learn to do them to get attention despite the actual anxiety going away. You cannot increase his fear unless you are nervous and fearful and communicating that to him.

I'd Fuck Chuck Lidell Up

Elin wrote: »

Some of you may remember I posted a thread about my dog getting attacked a while back. I now have another question. Ever since that, when he's near a bigger dog he whines and barks. He's not being aggressive, but he acts pretty scared. I want to get him over this some how so I've been taking him around the bigger dogs for small amounts of time when I'm holding him or staying close so I can protect him if/when he feels threatened.

My question is ... is this the right way to go about getting him over his doggy anxiety? I like big dogs and was planning on getting one when I have a yard, but if he's scared of all big dogs that's out the window.

don't do this. what's going to happen is he's going to get anxious and it's going to make the other dogs anxious. find a big dog that your friends own that you can trust him to be around and let them hang out on their own. trying to shield and protect him is only going to make it worse.

also I'm assuming the big dog will start as a puppy right? he'll get used to it as it grows. even if it's not a puppy as long as you aren't trying to protect him whenever the big dog is around you should be fine

Battle Jesus

Kistra is right. You can not reinforce fear, just the behavioral responses to it. I'm just so used to my own lingo that I don't even notice that I'm semantically wrong. My bad!

I will say this though: I find blocking and redirecting (with treats, toys, or whatever) to be more effective than calming petting, if only because it is so much easier for things to go wrong with the petting (bad tone of voice or body language; maybe an inappropriate approach to the dog, whatever) than the B&R.

This does not mean the block and redirect is flawless - if your dog is excited, or even worse, aggressive when they get the treat then problems will arise. That's pretty easy to avoid though. Just make sure your dog works for the treats they get - whether it's by being calm in a stressful situation, or by performing tricks.

edit: as was posted above, by holding your dog when he is in a nervous situation, you are effectively restraining him from doing what he wants to do, which is get away from the situation. This won't help him get over his fear at all.

Elin

Thank you for the suggestions.

And I don't think I'll ever own a puppy. I'll most likely get an older goofy looking mutt from the pound so it doesn't get put down, puppies are usually adopted just fine (and end up back in the pound when they're big goofy looking dogs).

Kistra

Elin wrote: »

Thank you for the suggestions.

And I don't think I'll ever own a puppy. I'll most likely get an older goofy looking mutt from the pound so it doesn't get put down, puppies are usually adopted just fine (and end up back in the pound when they're big goofy looking dogs).

I still don't think you will have an issue. Take the introduction slowly and give both dogs time to get used to each other's smells (keep them in adjoining rooms, ect. I think your dog will get used to specific big dogs much much faster than big dogs in general.

One more thought I had. If you can find a trainer in your area who has advanced obedience classes after you work with them once or twice individually they might let you sit on the sidelines of a class with big dogs in it. That would be an ideal situation b/c the big dogs are going to be focused on their owners and calm. (do not go to an agility or flyball class for this purpose)

Picking up your dog isn't necessarily preventing him from doing what he wants. Does your dog enjoy being picked up and consider your arms a safe place where dogs can't get to him? If so you have a wonderful way to start a ds/cc protocol. Personally I spent time making sure that my dog a)likes being in my arms and b)considers being picked up a conditioned relaxation cue - he goes floppy relaxed no matter what is going on. I think that is a worthwhile exercise for any small dog owner b/c it gives your dog a safe place/relaxing place anytime anywhere.