In old style token based raiding tanks got first priority on everything, but that's been changed a bit.
So as of now it mainly goes to entitlement when it comes to random 5 mans. They can always get in, they can screw everyone over by leaving or not doing their job, or going too slow, or going too fast, and you can basically only ever kick the worst of them, but at that point you're better off just leaving anyways.
Still tanks have nothing to do with a shaman thread.
Also, a DPS player can go AFK for a minute and the group can generally progress without him (unless the dungeon is taxing your group heavily). AFK tank or healer means nothing happens.
I have time to time loaded up a group with HoT's on my Druid then stepped away for a second to let my dog in or drain the lizard or what have you. Most of the time they don't even know I left.
In old style token based raiding tanks got first priority on everything, but that's been changed a bit.
So as of now it mainly goes to entitlement when it comes to random 5 mans. They can always get in, they can screw everyone over by leaving or not doing their job, or going too slow, or going too fast, and you can basically only ever kick the worst of them, but at that point you're better off just leaving anyways.
Still tanks have nothing to do with a shaman thread.
If the guild gave tanks tokens first to gear them for progression, that was per guild and not a reward for being a tank. It was a reward for your guild feeling like the best way to progress was to gear you first. Not all guilds did this, nor was it really a reward, it just meant you got tier faster. Woohoo.
None of those complaints about some tanks being dicks or feeling entitled is even close to being a 'reward' for playing a tank. I'm not looking for an argument, I was honestly hoping there was some special reward for being a tank that I was missing out on all these years and I would be pleasantly surprised, but alas, it's not to be. :P
Also, none of these threads ever stays completely on topic, and the tanking discussion came from people talking about Shaman tanking. =P
Your battlegroup must give you good/better geared tanks more often. At least half the groups I'm in, if I didn't heal on every pull, there would be people dying.
Maybe I have a high flow rate. No one has ever noticed when I step away for a min. Or at least said anything.
LMAO at high flow rate. Also, if you're talking about on trash, most of the time there wouldn't be any reason for the group to notice. Whenever I'm tanking a heroic and the healer says they need to afk, I just keep pulling trash most of the time. If it's trash I know will do damage to me via magic or what not and there is a risk of dying I won't, but that's rarely the case.
In old style token based raiding tanks got first priority on everything, but that's been changed a bit.
So as of now it mainly goes to entitlement when it comes to random 5 mans. They can always get in, they can screw everyone over by leaving or not doing their job, or going too slow, or going too fast, and you can basically only ever kick the worst of them, but at that point you're better off just leaving anyways.
Still tanks have nothing to do with a shaman thread.
If the guild gave tanks tokens first to gear them for progression, that was per guild and not a reward for being a tank. It was a reward for your guild feeling like the best way to progress was to gear you first. Not all guilds did this, nor was it really a reward, it just meant you got tier faster. Woohoo.
Your reward was that you had to raid and run attunements more than anyone else. YEAH!!!!!!!!
Your battlegroup must give you good/better geared tanks more often. At least half the groups I'm in, if I didn't heal on every pull, there would be people dying.
There is some truth to that statement as most tanks I see are pretty well geared. Plus I know the instances and I won't walk away if I think something is going to happen.
I've only been healing for a couple of weeks, but I'd say 60% of the randoms I can toss earth shield on trash and twiddle my thumbs for 2-3 pulls.
Except that crappy tank in hToC last night. Even in (average) 219 tanking gear if I did anything but chain-cast LHW on him he would die. And this is for the trash before Eadric. And a normal pull, not everything at once.
(I joined the group after the previous healer dropped/was kicked. The tank immediately told me to kick one of the DPS'ers, and before Black Knight told me to not heal the DPS at all, that they could run back in).
Tanks can take a pretty variable amount of damage depending on the class and the pull. Paladins and warriors (if they use shield block) don't take much damage at all if it's a bunch of melee crap.
I think he was a warrior, but don't remember for sure. Either Warrior or Pally, definitely.
I just remember him being the hardest tank to keep up I have encountered so far. Even on Eadric I had to do a lot more healing on him than I had. Hmm, I wonder if he was using a shield. That could possibly explain it. We barely downed Black Knight on our third try.
I've only been healing for a couple of weeks, but I'd say 60% of the randoms I can toss earth shield on trash and twiddle my thumbs for 2-3 pulls.
Except that crappy tank in hToC last night. Even in (average) 219 tanking gear if I did anything but chain-cast LHW on him he would die. And this is for the trash before Eadric. And a normal pull, not everything at once.
(I joined the group after the previous healer dropped/was kicked. The tank immediately told me to kick one of the DPS'ers, and before Black Knight told me to not heal the DPS at all, that they could run back in).
Riptide-HW-HW? Or just HW?
Isn't LHW spam about the least efficient way to keep a tank alive?
The only time I use LHW is on DPS, or if I'm trying to get a cheap damage debuff on the tank.
Riptide-LHW (until I can riptide again). I was sometimes tossing riptide on DPS that was dropping or chain heal if I thought I had the time.
Everything I have read is that LHW is what to use on tanks. At least without tons of haste (and in this case I think if I tried to cast HW I would not have had time)
The issue is, when you consider HPS, HW far outshines LHW, so if your tank is taking so much damage that you react with only LHW, you're fighting a losing battle.
If your tank is losing 10-15k health in 2 seconds, then you have a very big problem.
I just ran hToC on my hunter (random). I payed attention to the Pally tank's damage (sub-200 average ilevel, so worse gear than the one I was trying to heal) and he wasn't taking nearly as much damage. At least, not as often. He took a couple of big hits, but wasn't constantly losing hp.
Priest healer with worse gear than my Shaman's resto. I really think there was something off with that tank's gear or what he was doing.
I can't remember if I did any HW's when I felt it was safe enough / didn't need to chain heal, but it didn't happen often. (He couldn't keep aggro on DK phase 2, either).
EDIT: I hope I'm not sounding defensive. I appreciate the advise and am going to keep it in mind. I just really think that tank was terrible.
I would think Enhancement would appreciate being able to run 15% faster all the time regardless of whether they can wolf indoors, so I think GC is wrong about it being less attractive when considering that.
Run speed talents are only partly about convenience. Most of the utility is being able to move faster during encounters that require a lot of movement, and wolfing indoors doesn't matter for that.
Aye, even though there'll be pleny of point for Imp GW it'll still require a GCD. Still, there've been many times during encounters (theLich King being the most recent example) where I've felt that being able to wolf would reduce a ton of stress. Hell, I kept points in Imp GW all during Ulduar just for Freyja.
Elemental and Resto are going to be pretty unlikely to want to dual-wield in Cataclysm. For the most part we want them using a one-handed caster weapon and shield.
- GC
One point I will make is I understand the resto/elemental dipping in to be able to dual wield two weapons:
I haven't seen it in any upcoming change notes, so I think GC just inadvertantly broke the NDA.
I don't think it was inadvertent at all. I think he wanted to hold some raw meat in front of the (ghost) wolves to get them drooling.
But anyway, 15% move speed talents are awesome and I would hope enhancement doesn't get that option taken away because of indoor ghost wolfing. When my DK used to be Unholy, I actually took Imp Unholy Presence in my raid DPS spec, even though almost no raiding DKs seem to have the talent. All the cookie cutter EJ specs don't have points in it, but I just can't pass up 15% movement speed as a melee if my spec has access to it.
I haven't seen it in any upcoming change notes, so I think GC just inadvertantly broke the NDA.
I don't think it was inadvertent at all. I think he wanted to hold some raw meat in front of the (ghost) wolves to get them drooling.
But anyway, 15% move speed talents are awesome and I would hope enhancement doesn't get that option taken away because of indoor ghost wolfing. When my DK used to be Unholy, I actually took Imp Unholy Presence in my raid DPS spec, even though almost no raiding DKs seem to have the talent. All the cookie cutter EJ specs don't have points in it, but I just can't pass up 15% movement speed as a melee if my spec has access to it.
Your spec probably got you more DPS than the cookie cutters because you can't plug the benefit of movement speed into a spreadsheet, lol. Movement speed > all. I guess most people who didn't spec it use Tuskarr's Vitality, but 15 > 8%
Well, it depends on the fight, really. I think I was giving up 2% crit over in blood for it, so probably about ~2% DPS before factoring in movement. But I'm fine giving up 2% damage on your Saurfangs, Festerguts, and Blood Queens to be able to zip around faster on fights like Putricide, Blood Council, and Dreamwalker. And to be able to get out of fires, merge up pacts, move from defiles, etc. faster. And of course it also increases the margin of error for avoiding nova-like one shots like Sindragosa or Mimiron.
And, yes, (good) DKs without imp UP use Tuskarr's Vitality, so really it's a 7% movement speed buff plus some slight DPS stats increase from a different boot enchant vs. ~2% DPS.
Edit: I'm hoping the Cataclysm trees will allow enhancement, unholy, whoever to be able to get the speed increase talent without having to give up points in explicit DPS talents.
So I have been healing on my shaman a lot recently. Before I had gotten any decent gear I was running OOM all the time. But I think I have some good gear now but I am still dangerously close to OOM all of the time. I did a ToC25 and I was asking for an innervate every fight. Two healing ICC10 is scary to me.
I don't believe it is gear that is the problem but my choices in healing spells. What spells should I use generally to not run out of mana and which should I avoid?
Shaman healing is Riptide, LHW x 2, Riptide, LHW x 2... rinse and repeat. And I never run out of mana on my shaman, around 5kgs in his hearling gear, unless I am spamming CH which I use when there is alot of group/raid dmg.
Just make sure you aren't using LHW over HW in most situations. Even with the lesser mana cost and the increased critical chance (with Tidal Waves), it's still not as efficient as HW is over time. Use it only when you really need something fast and NS isn't on cooldown.
Riptide + Chain Heal is highly effective, too. Always note where your casters are standing to make the best use out of it.
It really depends. We two heal most of the fights in ICC10. The only fights that I really run into mana problems are probably Blood Princes, Blood Queen and LK.
Usually I stick with riptide and healing wave, chain heal if you know you're going to hit more than one. I'm glyphed for lhw but don't really use it a whole lot.
I always have a druid around when I get to heal on my shaman in raids and so using HW and not LHW just means my overheal numbers go up. Which sucks because my original healer was a druid and it was the same for me when I raid healed with him back in BC and Vanilla. Druids were king overhealers back then.
Posts
In old style token based raiding tanks got first priority on everything, but that's been changed a bit.
So as of now it mainly goes to entitlement when it comes to random 5 mans. They can always get in, they can screw everyone over by leaving or not doing their job, or going too slow, or going too fast, and you can basically only ever kick the worst of them, but at that point you're better off just leaving anyways.
Still tanks have nothing to do with a shaman thread.
If the guild gave tanks tokens first to gear them for progression, that was per guild and not a reward for being a tank. It was a reward for your guild feeling like the best way to progress was to gear you first. Not all guilds did this, nor was it really a reward, it just meant you got tier faster. Woohoo.
None of those complaints about some tanks being dicks or feeling entitled is even close to being a 'reward' for playing a tank. I'm not looking for an argument, I was honestly hoping there was some special reward for being a tank that I was missing out on all these years and I would be pleasantly surprised, but alas, it's not to be. :P
Also, none of these threads ever stays completely on topic, and the tanking discussion came from people talking about Shaman tanking. =P
LMAO at high flow rate.
There is some truth to that statement as most tanks I see are pretty well geared. Plus I know the instances and I won't walk away if I think something is going to happen.
Except that crappy tank in hToC last night. Even in (average) 219 tanking gear if I did anything but chain-cast LHW on him he would die. And this is for the trash before Eadric. And a normal pull, not everything at once.
(I joined the group after the previous healer dropped/was kicked. The tank immediately told me to kick one of the DPS'ers, and before Black Knight told me to not heal the DPS at all, that they could run back in).
I just remember him being the hardest tank to keep up I have encountered so far. Even on Eadric I had to do a lot more healing on him than I had. Hmm, I wonder if he was using a shield. That could possibly explain it. We barely downed Black Knight on our third try.
Riptide-HW-HW? Or just HW?
Isn't LHW spam about the least efficient way to keep a tank alive?
The only time I use LHW is on DPS, or if I'm trying to get a cheap damage debuff on the tank.
Everything I have read is that LHW is what to use on tanks. At least without tons of haste (and in this case I think if I tried to cast HW I would not have had time)
If your tank is losing 10-15k health in 2 seconds, then you have a very big problem.
Priest healer with worse gear than my Shaman's resto. I really think there was something off with that tank's gear or what he was doing.
I can't remember if I did any HW's when I felt it was safe enough / didn't need to chain heal, but it didn't happen often. (He couldn't keep aggro on DK phase 2, either).
EDIT: I hope I'm not sounding defensive. I appreciate the advise and am going to keep it in mind. I just really think that tank was terrible.
Source.
LoL: failboattootoot
Run speed talents are only partly about convenience. Most of the utility is being able to move faster during encounters that require a lot of movement, and wolfing indoors doesn't matter for that.
Ban him.
But anyway, 15% move speed talents are awesome and I would hope enhancement doesn't get that option taken away because of indoor ghost wolfing. When my DK used to be Unholy, I actually took Imp Unholy Presence in my raid DPS spec, even though almost no raiding DKs seem to have the talent. All the cookie cutter EJ specs don't have points in it, but I just can't pass up 15% movement speed as a melee if my spec has access to it.
Your spec probably got you more DPS than the cookie cutters because you can't plug the benefit of movement speed into a spreadsheet, lol. Movement speed > all. I guess most people who didn't spec it use Tuskarr's Vitality, but 15 > 8%
And, yes, (good) DKs without imp UP use Tuskarr's Vitality, so really it's a 7% movement speed buff plus some slight DPS stats increase from a different boot enchant vs. ~2% DPS.
Edit: I'm hoping the Cataclysm trees will allow enhancement, unholy, whoever to be able to get the speed increase talent without having to give up points in explicit DPS talents.
I don't believe it is gear that is the problem but my choices in healing spells. What spells should I use generally to not run out of mana and which should I avoid?
Riptide + Chain Heal is highly effective, too. Always note where your casters are standing to make the best use out of it.
Usually I stick with riptide and healing wave, chain heal if you know you're going to hit more than one. I'm glyphed for lhw but don't really use it a whole lot.