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Makin' a webcomic (suggestions/help/long)

ZerolinKZerolinK Registered User regular
edited August 2009 in Help / Advice Forum
So yeah... I'm new here and this is my first post lol. I suck at forums since I always register and only stay active for a short amount of time. I decided to register partly because I've been lurking in the forums and reading stuff, and partly because I need help.

The irony of it is that I'm turning to a webcomic forum to teach me how to make a webcomic. The good thing is that this is the perfect place to go to. The bad thing is that I find it awkward lol. Be aware that my comic is not going to be game related. It will not compete with any established comic. Instead, think of it more as an American manga.

The style I want for my... er... manga, is more of a rough style, with as little touch up as possible, except for the colour pages. This is where I need help. My brother gave me the entire Photoshop CS2 suite, but I've lost all the skills I had in photoshop. I need someone to help me learn how to use photoshop to make my comic more professional.

The webcomic is a joint venture between me and a friend. We're both writers (I loves me english :D), but I also do the art. I also need your help in telling me if this is a concept that you guys would read: The comic takes place many many years from now, it is A.C 327, the Earth is in ruins. The basic foundation is that time rapidly advanced, but because of the calamity, we've reverted to a more primal state (think of Fallout 3 but take out all the sci-fi weapons... or more like TriGun). Demons now roam the Earth, and remnants of a long lost power, the power of the Angels (who lost the war) are scattered among the Earth.

Here are several things I want you guys to take note of:
1.The main character is a misanthrope who's also a mercenary (think Haseo from .hack or Ashe from Tales of the Abyss)
2.There will be a few comedy scenes, but we plan to make it mostly serious
3.It will be bloody and gory
4.This will be my big return from my retirement (from drawing) so the art will gradually improve.
5.We're looking for a story that everyone will like and that will instantly be familiar to most people, but would still be original in it's own right.

So, if you read all this, thanks. What do you guys think of the story? Do you like it or no? What would you add/remove/change. Me and my partner are looking for suggestions to make this the best free Action webcomic out there, with a story that's something that could probably rival what BioWare writes (if that's possible).

Thanks for reading mates.

BAM! Lookatthatbaconsizzle!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ZerolinK on

Posts

  • John MatrixJohn Matrix Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    9PM central, Friday night, Scott Kurtz of PVP is starting a series of Webcomics University. Got a mic and skype account? You can call in and ask questions about all this stuff.

    www.pvponline.com

    John Matrix on
  • ZerolinKZerolinK Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    okay, but my style will differ from the styles found in most webcomics. Also, does anyone approve/disapprove or my ideas or have a suggestion? I want this to be a community driven comic. The art style is going to be dirty, with little-to-no-colour, except maybe for a couple of title pages or some art I want to be in colour.

    ZerolinK on
    BAM! Lookatthatbaconsizzle!
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  • MushroomStickMushroomStick Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Don't use words like "style" as an excuse for not practicing. And if you don't live in Japan, don't call it a manga.

    MushroomStick on
  • LocklockLocklock Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Hmm, my only real advice is to just start drawing. Draw, draw, draw like a madman. Draw all day and night. It's the only way to get better at drawing. Photoshop will not salvage a poorly drawn comic.

    As for if how successful it'll be, who knows man. Just put it out there. If it's quality it'll attract readers.

    Locklock on
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  • localhjaylocalhjay Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    i think he was just using it to describe his style

    the best advice i think is to write a 'bible' for your characters. map out what makes them them, their traits, abilities, etc etc. do this with places in the story that are significant, items, anything like that. this way you can always make sure you keep continuity (i imagine you would want this for the sort of webcomic you're describing)
    i was going to suggest you check out gone with the blastwave, but as i googled, it turns out it's now defunct, which fucking sucks because it's AMAZING

    localhjay on
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    That doesn't sound like a very good setting for comedy, but the again, Gone With the Blastwave and Fallout are hilarious.

    TychoCelchuuu on
  • Black IceBlack Ice Charlotte, NCRegistered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Sorry, but what the hell is A.C 327?

    Also, it's "mostly funny," but also very "bloody and gory." Typically you don't mix those two things together unless the humor is crude and thus geared towards a higher-aged demographic (Grand Theft Auto's crude humor and over-the-top violence come to mind).

    It's easier to make younger people laugh than older people. And I have to ask, how did you "lose all the skills [you] had in Photoshop," so it will get better over time? Sounds like someone is learning how to use Photoshop instead of remembering it, because that shit comes back quickly. The shortcut keys don't really change and the layout of things doesn't alter dramatically, either. I'd go as far to say that if you could use Photoshop 5 you could pick up the reigns of CS2 in a few hours.

    One last thing.. if you and your friend are writers (you didn't say comedy writers, just writers), understand that it's hard to come up with stuff that's funny because you have to. Not only does it have to read well, the art has to engage the reader, too. Reading something about a mercenary in an ruined future isn't exactly the best place to be cracking jokes, is it? It'd be hard for me to be in the mood to laugh instead of take the story seriously in that plot. I'd consider changing the setting.

    Sorry if this call came across a bit harsh, I tend to have an edge when I critique things.

    Black Ice on
  • ResilientResilient Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Can you elaborate on this:

    2.There will be a few comedy scenes, but we plan to make it mostly funny

    I don't quite get what you are saying here. Are you saying that its going to be funny while not trying to be funny? It sounds like it wants to be a hipster or something.

    Resilient on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    honestly, from your description your comic seems abysmal at worst and completely forgettable at best.

    it sounds utterly generic

    The Lovely Bastard on
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  • ZerolinKZerolinK Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    sorry that was a typo lol.
    I meant it would mostly be serious.

    I know how to draw, and I have an above average skill at drawing

    Not working on photoshop for over 2 years makes you lose a lot of your skills.

    It's not a manga, the art style is manga-ish, I want it to be a rough art style with a blend of american and japanese styles, though it'll mostly look japanese.

    (to reiterate)It will contain almost NO humor, in fact, I'm editing that first post right now lol.

    As for all the criticism, thanks, but please try to make it constructive, what would make my comic NOT boring, don't just call it a pile of shit and throw it out.

    As for the guy who hated me calling it a manga, I love manga, but I am American and I make comics, unlike most people, I ONLY make comics; I don't do right to left or insert anything japanese, my comics are more closely related to Marvel with an anime-ish art style.

    If I forgot anything else I'll respond to it lol

    Thanks

    ZerolinK on
    BAM! Lookatthatbaconsizzle!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MushroomStickMushroomStick Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Well, you're going to have to understand that pretty much 99+ percent of the time when someone describes their artwork as manga-ish that it throws up a huge red flag that makes a lot of us think that learned to draw by watching episodes of Dragonball - ie no fundamentals. So the advice is to keep practicing. Set up still lifes, draw your friends, and if you ever think you don't have to practice anymore - you are wrong, artists practice constantly and they are never done practicing.

    MushroomStick on
  • ZerolinKZerolinK Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    i think he was just using it to describe his style

    the best advice i think is to write a 'bible' for your characters. map out what makes them them, their traits, abilities, etc etc. do this with places in the story that are significant, items, anything like that. this way you can always make sure you keep continuity (i imagine you would want this for the sort of webcomic you're describing)
    i was going to suggest you check out gone with the blastwave, but as i googled, it turns out it's now defunct, which fucking sucks because it's AMAZING

    Awww man, I saw Gone With the blastwave (well... what I could find) and it looks awesome. The art is amazing also. It's nothing liek the art I want to do, but it's beautiful, now I've begun a search for it online lol

    ZerolinK on
    BAM! Lookatthatbaconsizzle!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ZerolinKZerolinK Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Well, you're going to have to understand that pretty much 99+ percent of the time when someone describes their artwork as manga-ish that it throws up a huge red flag that makes a lot of us think that learned to draw by watching episodes of Dragonball - ie no fundamentals. So the advice is to keep practicing. Set up still lifes, draw your friends, and if you ever think you don't have to practice anymore - you are wrong, artists practice constantly and they are never done practicing.

    Lol yeah I know what you mean, I started with no foundations (bug eyes, a single line for a nose, no lips, unproportional), but after finding out my art was generic, I decided to make my own style, one that didn't need colour to stick out, now it's a more realistic style, still anime-ish, but proportional, eye's that look like eyes, characters with actual lips >.> etc. What I also want to do is make characters that are believable. Not characters that start of weak and in one issue become overpowered (a la Naruto or DBZ), but people who are believable and characters that a reader can relate to. Our main comedic source comes from a person who's neither identified as a boy or a girl but looks like both, besides that person, there's going to be almost no humor. It's hard to explain what I mean, but I think as people respond (especially those that criticize, I need more people to do that), I'll explain what I mean to you guys better so that you guys can help me. I want the comic to be more community driven. I want the readers to decide important events, and, if my partner agrees, I want the readers to practically drive the story onward, I want to give them scenarios and let them vote upon the outcome (like that issue of batman where people voted for robin to die).

    ZerolinK on
    BAM! Lookatthatbaconsizzle!
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  • MushroomStickMushroomStick Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I would think that you'd have to develop some sort of a following before an idea like that could work out.

    MushroomStick on
  • ZerolinKZerolinK Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I would think that you'd have to develop some sort of a following before an idea like that could work out.

    lol yeah, for now it's gonna be writer driven, but if I can get a following, I'd want to do that. The next issue is getting enough money for a domain.... I'm dirt poor and live in a bad neighborhood. All I have at my disposal are those low-bandwidth free sites.

    ZerolinK on
    BAM! Lookatthatbaconsizzle!
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  • MushroomStickMushroomStick Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Look around, you should be able to find basic, paid hosting in the $5 a month range. Maybe see if your isp provides a few free megs of web hosting if it comes down to it.

    MushroomStick on
  • George Fornby GrillGeorge Fornby Grill ...Like Clockwork Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Use Wordpress if you have to, I've seen webcomic sites created with it, and while they don't look amazing, it's free.

    George Fornby Grill on
  • ZerolinKZerolinK Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Thanks for the site, heck yeah I'm gonna use that, better than all the other free places I can find.

    For now we've decided I'm gonna draw the main character's back story to improve my art skills and recover what I lost. The back story won't be published, but when my art is good enough I'll start on the actual publications, of course I'll redraw and republish the backstory as the story progresses and it is deem beneficial and/or neccessary.

    Also, doesn't anyone have any story suggestions? Me and the writer have decided to make the demons look more like humans (how they look in the bible or in shows like Buffy and Charmed), but with low level demons looking less human. We also plan to include the 9 circles of hell (as described in the Divine Comedy... which I actually read lol). And no, there are no angels in the comic. The angels are gone, back to where they belong, but their remnants still remain. The remnants won't be obvious things like swords and shields and arrows. They'll be less obvious things like pendants, bracelets, etc.

    ZerolinK on
    BAM! Lookatthatbaconsizzle!
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  • ZerolinKZerolinK Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Black Ice wrote: »
    Sorry, but what the hell is A.C 327?
    Sorry for ignoring your question lol, I forgot about it. A.C 327 is 327 years After the Calamity.
    A.C starts several thousand years after our current date, but we plan on having technology deteriorate to a point where the most advanced things are barely usable. People will mainly use blunt/melee weapons, those with actual long-range weapons (that aren't bows, like guns) will be rare.

    ZerolinK on
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  • ResilientResilient Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    To me this sounds a lot like a game rather than a comic or story. If you could flesh out some characters, their backgrounds and relationships, then we might actually start getting into maybe something interesting.

    Will this be all about fighting? If so how will you keep that interesting? Why do the future? I have never much been a fan of the post apocalyptic stuff myself. I would rather read a comic with the general outline you gave that was based in medieval times. Apocalypses always seem a bit forced to me.

    Resilient on
  • ZerolinKZerolinK Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Nah, it won't be forced. It'll be a mix of action and character development. Not all fighting but not all talking. Some of the things will deal with how and why a character behaves a certain way. I'll post an outline as soon as I can/ when I wake up tomorrow lol

    ZerolinK on
    BAM! Lookatthatbaconsizzle!
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  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    ZerolinK wrote: »
    Also, doesn't anyone have any story suggestions? Me and the writer have decided to make the demons look more like humans (how they look in the bible or in shows like Buffy and Charmed), but with low level demons looking less human. We also plan to include the 9 circles of hell (as described in the Divine Comedy... which I actually read lol). And no, there are no angels in the comic. The angels are gone, back to where they belong, but their remnants still remain. The remnants won't be obvious things like swords and shields and arrows. They'll be less obvious things like pendants, bracelets, etc.
    Typically if you cannot come up with ideas for your story or can but would rather have other people do it for you, you might want to look into doing something else other than, say, writing a story. I realise that you're probably just trying to get an idea of what people would enjoy reading, but being able to determine by yourself whether or not anyone would want to read the idea you just came up with is 90% of the work. Anyone can just spit out stuff they've made up until the cows come home, and even if there's something good in there, it's the ability to pick that good stuff out and present it as your work that makes you successful.

    You may have "actually read" the Divine Comedy ("lol") but right now your story doesn't sound like there's anything there that makes it more interesting than a Mad-Libs filled out by someone who likes angels and demons instead of cyborgs and AI or dragons and ogres or aliens and spaceships or whatever. Great stories are typically about ideas, not about their settings, or their setting has some sort of unique characteristic that makes it interesting in and of itself. I don't really see how a vague catatstrophic event that takes away all our computers and forces us to fight each other with pointed sticks automatically sets you up for success without having to come up with an actual story that's more than just an excuse to play around in the world you created.

    TychoCelchuuu on
  • GrimAngelKuroGrimAngelKuro Registered User new member
    edited August 2009
    I apologize for this on my lateness but I will now introduce myself. I am the other half of this project. Most of the story and and original character make up comes from me.

    First I'll address the question of why set it into the future. It's mainly because it's not done very often. Most stories in the modern age consist of stories in either present day or the past and if it is set in the future it's most likely in space. So i chose post-apocalyptic as a chance to do something different. Though i realize that itself isn't enough.

    I am now taking any further questions for the time being

    GrimAngelKuro on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    wait are you actually of the belief that a post-apocalyptic future is not done very often?

    The Lovely Bastard on
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  • GrimAngelKuroGrimAngelKuro Registered User new member
    edited August 2009
    wait are you actually of the belief that a post-apocalyptic future is not done very often?

    Yes and no. Allow me to elaborate. It is commonly written but is not commonly read.

    It's obviously a hot topic due to the fact that some people seem to be under the impression that the world will end in a few years or so. This is evident as there seems to be several movie scripts in production for it as we speak.

    Though it's a hot topic it's not really something people like hanging over their heads so it may often be avoided.

    that's basically what i'm saying or do i need to elaborate more

    GrimAngelKuro on
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Uh yeah you need to elaborate more. I look at 2012, Knowing, Fallout 3, I Am Legend, Bryan Singer's SyFy miniseries, Jericho, every zombie movie, 9, Book of Eli, and so on and I don't see something that is not commonly read. Or, rather, watched.

    TychoCelchuuu on
  • GrimAngelKuroGrimAngelKuro Registered User new member
    edited August 2009
    Uh yeah you need to elaborate more. I look at 2012, Knowing, Fallout 3, I Am Legend, Bryan Singer's SyFy miniseries, Jericho, every zombie movie, 9, Book of Eli, and so on and I don't see something that is not commonly read. Or, rather, watched.

    I agree whole heatedly with your statement. And before i go on please take note i am only familiar with a few of those. When it comes to zombie movies those are just your generic horror thriller where I it usually follows 1 zombie -> zombie bites someone leading to more zombies -> large army of zombies move in on a group for some reason -> people eventually get away with the mc dying to protect the others or everyone dying. 9 (though i haven't seen it) is a future where it seems that humanity was betrayed by the machines we created (also similar to the path iRobot would have taken if it weren't prevented). Then there is 2012 where major catastrophe befalls the earth and it ends period.

    But it seems to me that these mainly have one similar theme to it. Humanity died. Me and my friend plan to take an almost alternate route where the humans race still lives on. Which is unlike I am legend where for some reason there is one guy left (note: i've never really seen it). Though it's not going to be desolate land where everything that moves is a possible enemy and your only friend is your gun like in Trigun and Desert punk

    but we're kind of getting off subject now.

    GrimAngelKuro on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    You know, if you are trying to play against type of a post-apocalyptic future, you should bone up on things set in a post-apocalyptic future. You can't break the rules if you don't even know them.

    The Lovely Bastard on
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  • GrimAngelKuroGrimAngelKuro Registered User new member
    edited August 2009
    You know, if you are trying to play against type of a post-apocalyptic future, you should bone up on things set in a post-apocalyptic future. You can't break the rules if you don't even know them.

    That's not necessarily true. All post-apocalyptic futures aren't the same. Though I do agree that i should obtain some things relating to the subject of the story. But the question is whether or not what i need exist or not.

    But once again we are off subject. Back to the original topic creators suggestion, are there any thoughts or questions?

    GrimAngelKuro on
  • DarwinsFavoriteTortoiseDarwinsFavoriteTortoise Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    You know, if you are trying to play against type of a post-apocalyptic future, you should bone up on things set in a post-apocalyptic future. You can't break the rules if you don't even know them.

    That's not necessarily true. All post-apocalyptic futures aren't the same. Though I do agree that i should obtain some things relating to the subject of the story. But the question is whether or not what i need exist or not.

    But once again we are off subject. Back to the original topic creators suggestion, are there any thoughts or questions?

    No, none of this is off-topic. You asked if they had questions. They do.

    Seriously, and you really need to think about this, but your premise sounds incredibly generic. I mean, really. Like everyone is saying, you might want to share the stories and characters, not the setting.

    DarwinsFavoriteTortoise on
  • Cowboy BebopCowboy Bebop Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    My advice is to stop worrying about whether or not this idea of yours could work and just do it. An immediate flaw to your idea however is that action comics don't generally translate well to an online format because it updates daily, my point being that the pace of the action is going to be broken and disjointed.

    As harsh as this may sound I'd also recommend you try writing your own story rather than mixing two niches together and throwing in some cardboard cut outs for characters. That's not to say that you can't use your premise but you have to put your spin on it and use fleshed out characters.

    Cowboy Bebop on
  • DrFrylockDrFrylock Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    I can't help but agree that this sounds tremendously generic. You can make a generic genre meme exciting if you're a really excellent writer who can draw out truly three-dimensional characters to whom people can relate. Character development has to occur as well. You can't just put words in their mouths. The characters have to evolve as they go through their experiences. Just using stock characters like the brooding emo mercenary is laziness writ large. Planning also helps. The reason shows like LOST are so popular is the really human characterizations and the fact that there is a plot that's moving toward something.

    If you want some serious commentary, you need to provide more than Generic Postapocalyptic Setting #83 and some stock characters. Why should we care?

    Also the "plot twist" where the hero dies at the end or sacrifices himself? Yeah, not a plot twist anymore.

    DrFrylock on
  • SpamSpam Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Uhhh, is this like "Pimp my Webcomic" but without a comic?

    Seriously, why all the posting here about story ideas and plans? Design by comittee rarely works - it's your comic, just run with it.

    Get a story written up, or a start made to it at least, draw some storyboards up, do your first couple of pages of comic, and then come back to us for comments/criticism/suggestions.

    Spam on
  • Cowboy BebopCowboy Bebop Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Spam wrote: »
    Uhhh, is this like "Pimp my Webcomic" but without a comic?

    Seriously, why all the posting here about story ideas and plans? Design by comittee rarely works - it's your comic, just run with it.

    Get a story written up, or a start made to it at least, draw some storyboards up, do your first couple of pages of comic, and then come back to us for comments/criticism/suggestions.

    I think Spam nailed it.

    Cowboy Bebop on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    honestly guy, if you wanna see how a comic is getting made from the ground up, check out my thread in Graphic Violence

    this is not just me being an ego whore

    it is me showing how you start with an idea and do things with it

    http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?t=96567

    The Lovely Bastard on
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  • ZerolinKZerolinK Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    Thanks for all the responses people, now to get to work:

    The main character isn't generic because, unlike most emo characters, he's not emo, people can be misanthropes and be very happy (me), he just happens to hate... everyone... a lot lol. He's only a merc for survival purposes, in other words, sure I can kill you for fun... but I can also kill you for fun, give someone your head, and make money off of it.

    Though post apocalyptic futures have been done... a lot... this one will be different, it's not like most apocalypses that happen in the near future. The stuff here happens in a distant future that actually has an effect on the setting.

    I plan on making the action flow properly. It won't have a set amount of squares, like most comics do, it'll be released content wise. It'll start and stop at the right time, what that also means is that releases will also be infrequent, though I'll try to make it at set intervals.

    The story doesn't only revolve around a merc, but it revolves around other characters. The merc (protagonists) is human, he has weaknesses and fears, accepts those facts, but refuses to improve upon them, until pushed.

    And thanks to the guy who told me to just do what I want. What I want to make is a comic like nothing that's been done before. I don't want to compete with any established series, I want my comic to be something else entirely different, something that would feel more like a game than just something you read, something you want/can interact with. Kinda like how Fallout is so successful because it is a game. This is why I need you guys to provide suggestions. Things you guys would like to see improved. The story is near being completely finished, I'm starting on the character designs (can't find a pencil.... can't afford good sketch pencils until sunday >.>).

    ZerolinK on
    BAM! Lookatthatbaconsizzle!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MushroomStickMushroomStick Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    You haven't shown us anything. How are we supposed to tell you what needs improving? Also, infrequent updates is the easiest way for a web comic to fail. Look at Penny Arcade, we all know that there is going to be a new comic every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. No matter what. I do believe that this is not a small part of why this place stays successful.

    MushroomStick on
  • underdonkunderdonk __BANNED USERS regular
    edited August 2009
    ZerolinK wrote: »
    The style I want for my... er... manga, is more of a rough style, with as little touch up as possible, except for the colour pages. This is where I need help. I went out and legally purchased the entire Photoshop CS2 suite, but I've lost all the skills I had in photoshop. I need someone to help me learn how to use photoshop to make my comic more professional.

    Fixed that for you.

    The first suggestion I would make is to not publicly admit that you (and your brother) are breaking the law.

    underdonk on
    Back in the day, bucko, we just had an A and a B button... and we liked it.
  • Grim OutlookGrim Outlook Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    you should draw out a few pages and then post them in the artist's corner forum for feedback. a lot of people post there looking for crits on their webcomics.

    unless you just want feedback on the story/writing, then you should try the writer's block forum.

    Grim Outlook on
  • ZerolinKZerolinK Registered User regular
    edited August 2009
    when I'm done with the character designs (and I think they look good and reflect the art style) I'm gonna post an image or 2 in the artist's corner.

    I want to make the comic update at least once a week, sometimes twice a week, with friday being the target date.

    Also, I own Photoshop CS2 (the suite) legally. I actually did buy it :D.

    Thanks for all your help and criticism. I'm markign this as solved until I finish the character designs and post them on the artist's corner... then I'll bring this back up (or just put it in the same topic as the image). Also... my scanner is cracked... so if the scans have a line going through them... forgive me.

    ZerolinK on
    BAM! Lookatthatbaconsizzle!
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