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Sorry, didn't mean to come off sounding like a troll or racially insensitive. I really am dumb as shit.
I was trying (in a bad way), to raise the question as to whether Bendis was creating this character to pander, or whether he could develop a meaningful take on the character. I've seen some writers write characters in a manner that seemed like pandering, or in a manner that seemed grossly stereotypical. I've also seen writers develop characters who also happen to be a minority in some manner. For example, good examples that I'll toss out are: X-Factor's Richtor/Shatterstar, Judd Winick's Speedy.
I think Bendis can develop a meaningful take because he has in the past.
Let's put it this way. I'm black and while for most of my life (IT guy, news writer, game and comic fan) it doesn't effect me, it does creep up every now and then. For instance, the creation of Miles Morales and the resulting backlash from those who don't even read comics. The occasional problem of finding decent characters of my race in comics and videogames. Looking at the new JLA cover and internally saying to myself: A) is Cyborg the best we have? and well at least it's better than nothing. Add into this a family who is more "ethnic" than I as you would say (I was born in Compton, CA, but lived in Japan many years) and race is something that comes up every now and then.
The point I'm getting at is there's a certain backlash to making characters to "on-the-nose" when it comes to race (Steel's first series run comes to mind), but going completely the other way doesn't help things either. Every person deals with issues of race, gender, sexuality, and religion. Maybe not every day, all in their face, but occasionally? Yes. I have friends who had two weddings back-to-back to appease both the Chinese and Caucasian sides of their family, and it was a big problem for quite awhile before the event actually happened. The trick for writers is to use those differences to inform the characters. I'm not Catholic, but I completely believe that Daredevil is a strong character when rooted in Matt Murdock's Irish Catholic upbringing. They're not banging on that drum in every issue, but it's important to the character.
Having a diverse lineup of characters gives you more situations to pull from. Hal Jordan, a character I find to be mostly boring, was personally at his most interesting when his mostly conservative views were contrasted against the staunchly liberal Green Arrow (Hard Traveling Heroes was fun). Heroes doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do is fine, but what informs that idea? To use one of your examples, Speedy is far more apt to kill than the rest of the GA clan because of her past as an abused teenage runaway and former prostitute. What past experiences made the heroes who they are? Original John Stewart, Mosaic John Stewart, Architect John Stewart, and Sniper John Stewart are completely different characters based solely on a shift in his background. Captain America as the aryan ideal of Steve Rogers tells one story (that I think is integral to the character with his Nazi archenemies), while a black Captain America tells another.
TL;DR: Providing characters of different races, religions, sexualities, and background allows you to make more interesting stories.
the issue of "pandering" ultimately lies in being able to distinguish between being inclusive and "giving someone a seat at the table"
I could potentially see a "pandering" angle if he's also gay since that'd feel more like a triple-token minority mix... but eh. I don't even think of it as "giving someone else a seat at the table," either. the race of the character really shouldn't matter, imo.
what is known about the Miles Morales character? I haven't followed anything ultimates (or marvel really) for a while...
I think I remember reading at thrlaunch ofUltimate comics, that one of the goals was to keep things contained a bit so that a reader could read JUST one title without feeling they were missing out on what is happening in the world. Sadly, that train left the station long ago. As someone who always collected USM ONLY, I am feeling completely lost with all the politics of the world. I'm really hoping that as Miles is introduced to this world, they'll reintroduce all the nuttiness of the Ultimate world.
Auto you are the voice of reason in a sea of unreason-ness.
Really? I though I was rambling a bit, hence the TL;DR.
Nope. It was perfectly stated and exactly right.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
hey how were the subsequent "Ultimates" books following whatever the hell ultimatum was
that's about where I left off, lol.
I'm really interested in how the old spider-gang (aunt may, et al) will react when they see Spiderman running around. this—which is imo, the actual story they want to tell—just seems to get lost in the race of the character. But every article (and discussion) that I've found focuses on the race though. =\
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Then I should rephrase that to how she was marketed when she first appeared. She was promoted on nothing but being latina, and how Univision or Telemundo said something about her, and how Quesada was hispanic, nothing ever about the character other than her race. Heck, even the spider-stuff, the main selling point of her in terms of getting comic readers, was downplayed.
This was the solicit for her first issue:
The secret is out! The new super hero people can't stop talking about is named...ARANA! That's pronounced ah-rahn-ya, for all you gringos!
Straight from AMAZING FANTASY-- the continuing adventures of Anya Corazon, scrappy teen from Brooklyn by day, and by night, the butt-kicking Hunter of the ancient and mystical Spider Society!
As seen in the NY Daily News, Fox News, CNN, and Telemundo, Marvel's first Latina super hero is getting a brand-new monthly book and sporting a new dimension to her costume.
I never read the original Arana stuff but I liked her quite a bit when she was part of Ms. Marvel's supporting cast
Balefuego on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited August 2011
I remember Batwoman only got a weird treatment because Didio or Paul Levitz or someone really said something odd in a USA Today article about her appearing. Something about a lipstick lesbian?
I remember Batwoman only got a weird treatment because Didio or Paul Levitz or someone really said something odd in a USA Today article about her appearing. Something about a lipstick lesbian?
No the entire article was "We have a new Batwoman! And she's a lesbian!"
Just like the entire Miles article is "We have a new Ultimate Spider-Man! And he's black/hispanic!"
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited August 2011
Miles seemed to have been handled a lot better than most publishers handle this stuff. Marvel never really made a big deal about the race other than to say hes Miles Morales, half-black, half-hispanic. It was the news themselves having a hard time understanding that this wasn't to replace the 616 version of Peter or that Alonso is hispanic and Bendis has adopted kids from Africa. From Marvel it seemed their MO in promoting the character was "Bendis had this idea, Donglover was a catalyst, so they drew him into the Ultimate Universe."
I remember Batwoman only got a weird treatment because Didio or Paul Levitz or someone really said something odd in a USA Today article about her appearing. Something about a lipstick lesbian?
No the entire article was "We have a new Batwoman! And she's a lesbian!"
Just like the entire Miles article is "We have a new Ultimate Spider-Man! And he's black/hispanic!"
And it's fucking irritating because Miles being black/hispanic or Batwoman being a lesbian should be treated as a non-issue because that way it becomes a non-issue, as it should be.
Then I should rephrase that to how she was marketed when she first appeared. She was promoted on nothing but being latina, and how Univision or Telemundo said something about her, and how Quesada was hispanic, nothing ever about the character other than her race. Heck, even the spider-stuff, the main selling point of her in terms of getting comic readers, was downplayed.
This was the solicit for her first issue:
The secret is out! The new super hero people can't stop talking about is named...ARANA! That's pronounced ah-rahn-ya, for all you gringos!
Straight from AMAZING FANTASY-- the continuing adventures of Anya Corazon, scrappy teen from Brooklyn by day, and by night, the butt-kicking Hunter of the ancient and mystical Spider Society!
As seen in the NY Daily News, Fox News, CNN, and Telemundo, Marvel's first Latina super hero is getting a brand-new monthly book and sporting a new dimension to her costume.
Dollars to donuts they're going to be hyping the same thing about Miles Morales.
He they were folded back in during the New Ultimates mini series. I believe part of it had to with Tony losing a bunch of money in Ultimatium, but he was also sleeping with carol so who knows. As of why they aren't leaving it again now that tony is really rich again? Couldn't tell ya.
oops double post, how do we delete our own posts now?
Magna Inferno on
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
I'm really liking the Hickman stuff I've read in Fallout, and will be picking up Hawkeye and Ultimates now (as long as Ultimates can stay on schedule) along with USM. Still don't care about the X-Men, and kind of hope they don't get in the way of anything Hickman has planned.
Sandoval's art is just getting better and better every time he gets put on another book.
I'm really liking the Hickman stuff I've read in Fallout, and will be picking up Hawkeye and Ultimates now (as long as Ultimates can stay on schedule) along with USM. Still don't care about the X-Men, and kind of hope they don't get in the way of anything Hickman has planned.
Sandoval's art is just getting better and better every time he gets put on another book.
I'm actually going the other way. X-men has a really great line-up and the Ultimates have successfully soured me of the team. I hear Spider-women is in it so maybe.
Having just started reading Hickman's SHIELD book, I honestly think he's incapable of writing a bad story.
He falls into the Morrison trap. Sometimes in pursuit of an interesting idea he forgets to just tell the damn story in a sensible and exciting manner. Good place to be overall though.
Posts
I think Bendis can develop a meaningful take because he has in the past.
Let's put it this way. I'm black and while for most of my life (IT guy, news writer, game and comic fan) it doesn't effect me, it does creep up every now and then. For instance, the creation of Miles Morales and the resulting backlash from those who don't even read comics. The occasional problem of finding decent characters of my race in comics and videogames. Looking at the new JLA cover and internally saying to myself: A) is Cyborg the best we have? and
The point I'm getting at is there's a certain backlash to making characters to "on-the-nose" when it comes to race (Steel's first series run comes to mind), but going completely the other way doesn't help things either. Every person deals with issues of race, gender, sexuality, and religion. Maybe not every day, all in their face, but occasionally? Yes. I have friends who had two weddings back-to-back to appease both the Chinese and Caucasian sides of their family, and it was a big problem for quite awhile before the event actually happened. The trick for writers is to use those differences to inform the characters. I'm not Catholic, but I completely believe that Daredevil is a strong character when rooted in Matt Murdock's Irish Catholic upbringing. They're not banging on that drum in every issue, but it's important to the character.
Having a diverse lineup of characters gives you more situations to pull from. Hal Jordan, a character I find to be mostly boring, was personally at his most interesting when his mostly conservative views were contrasted against the staunchly liberal Green Arrow (Hard Traveling Heroes was fun). Heroes doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do is fine, but what informs that idea? To use one of your examples, Speedy is far more apt to kill than the rest of the GA clan because of her past as an abused teenage runaway and former prostitute. What past experiences made the heroes who they are? Original John Stewart, Mosaic John Stewart, Architect John Stewart, and Sniper John Stewart are completely different characters based solely on a shift in his background. Captain America as the aryan ideal of Steve Rogers tells one story (that I think is integral to the character with his Nazi archenemies), while a black Captain America tells another.
TL;DR: Providing characters of different races, religions, sexualities, and background allows you to make more interesting stories.
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I write about video games and stuff. It is fun. Sometimes.
Rocket Racer?
Really? I though I was rambling a bit, hence the TL;DR.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/
I write about video games and stuff. It is fun. Sometimes.
Arana. She's been rehabbed to an extent now, but when she debuted it was ridiculous.
oh boy
hey how were the subsequent "Ultimates" books following whatever the hell ultimatum was
Nope. It was perfectly stated and exactly right.
that's about where I left off, lol.
I'm really interested in how the old spider-gang (aunt may, et al) will react when they see Spiderman running around. this—which is imo, the actual story they want to tell—just seems to get lost in the race of the character. But every article (and discussion) that I've found focuses on the race though. =\
Ultimate Spidey was really good
Ultimate Avengers and the Ultimates were not
Ultimate Thor mini was good, and Ultimate Cap mini was also good according to many (not myself but whatever)
As someone who has read all the original Arana stuff this is bullshit
It wasn't a good book but there's nothing pandering about the character
Ultimate Avengers 1 was really good, 2 was okay, 3 was garbage, VS was really good.
New Ultimates is "passable" at best.
Yeah, I never noticed Anya's ethnicity played up all that much, at least in the two digests I own.
To my recollection, it was all just stuff about spider-totems, and sometimes she did gymnastics.
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This was the solicit for her first issue:
PANDERING
Batwoman got the same treatment
Fuck, Miles got the same treatment and that was a week ago!
No the entire article was "We have a new Batwoman! And she's a lesbian!"
Just like the entire Miles article is "We have a new Ultimate Spider-Man! And he's black/hispanic!"
And it's fucking irritating because Miles being black/hispanic or Batwoman being a lesbian should be treated as a non-issue because that way it becomes a non-issue, as it should be.
Dollars to donuts they're going to be hyping the same thing about Miles Morales.
Gotta love that blurb about "Marvel's first Latina super hero". What about White Tiger? Wind Dancer? Or Echo? Or... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latino_superheroes#Marvel_Comics
Diablo 3 - ArtfulDodger#1572
Minecraft - ArtfulDodger42
Tumblr blargh
Good Lord
Are the Ultimates back under US/SHIELD authority, or what's the deal there?
I was wondering that too because Tony was backing them and he's now richer than he was before.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/
I write about video games and stuff. It is fun. Sometimes.
Ultimates 2
Also some variant covers for x-men(bagely) and spider-man(pichelli)
Sandoval's art is just getting better and better every time he gets put on another book.
Also I really like the bagely variant cover.
Also, guessing that ben and sue might be on the ultimates since Reed is the first big villian.
Confirmed members active members so far are
Iron Man
Thor
Spider-Woman
Hulk
Hawkeye
And Hawkeye/Hulk will be busy in his mini series.
https://gofund.me/fa5990a5
He falls into the Morrison trap. Sometimes in pursuit of an interesting idea he forgets to just tell the damn story in a sensible and exciting manner. Good place to be overall though.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/
I write about video games and stuff. It is fun. Sometimes.
On the bright side, you're in for some fun. Ultimate Spider-Man is the most consistently awesome book on the stands, outside of Invincible.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/
I write about video games and stuff. It is fun. Sometimes.