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Warhammer 40k MMO game play
Uriah
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Sorry if the title mislead you to think I actually know about the game play, which I don't.
I originally posted this on the 8-bit forums, then I thought that this forum might be a bit robust for this kinda thing...so yeah, if you wanna check out the original (it's only about a day old) it's at 8bit.
well, I just felt it would be fun to throw my idea out there on how I wish the game would be made. Once I heard that they were going to make this game I almost cheesed by skivvies, but then I quickly ran into the common problem that it seems everyone else runs into, "how to make the game true to the 40k universe but not suck". I was pondering this very question when an idea came to me in a flash, such a good idea (I think), that I got goosebumps. So without further ado...
1. Firstly, we have the problem of what kind of game it should be, there are a few different camps, one wants it to be a FPS, so it can capture that intense gritty feel of that universe, but then you are stuck with the problem of everyone being marines, and the battles wouldn't be nearly epic enough. Then you have the group that wants to capture the epic feel of 40k, with galactic crusades where the fates of planets and trillions rest in the balance. For this you would need an RTS game, but then you would lose that intense, blood pumping action that only an FPS can provide. Then you have the idea of basing the entire game in a hive, which, I think, would not nearly capture the true feeling of the universe and would end up just being another run-of-the-mill MMO.
My idea is this.
Firstly, in 40k you races that are more suited to RTS style game play, like 'Nids and IG. Then you have races that are better suited to FPS style, like Marines, Eldar (possibly), Chaos and so forth. So basically what you would have are players can choose to either create an RTS commander for the races that make up most of the armies in the universe. These would be the fellows that organize the crusades, or defense, of planets and carry them out in RTS style, building bases, cities, troops and so forth. They would build the masses of troops that fill the universe, they would probably also control Titans and such. Then you have the races that there really aren't a lot of, for this example I will use marines. Marines would be a FPS race, if you choose a marine you would immediately have to pick a guild to join. There would be a list of guilds, and you would have to pick one before you get in game. When you pick a guild, you would start out as a neophyte, this would be equal to a probationary period that a lot of guilds use. A player would learn how to play the FPS part of the game, and he would have to prove himself to the guild. If he proves himself he is allowed in, if not, he has to start over. This process would really cut down on people just joining and leaving guilds, since if he leaves he would have to go through the process again. Of course this would need tweaking, but the general idea is true to fluff and is practical. There would also be caps to the players allowed in a guild. The caps could be raised by the success of the guild in combat. So a starting chapter would only be allowed, say, 10 players. These players would have to work hard, and together, to make their guild capable of recruiting more players. This would give players something to work for, and also make them loyal to their guild, and cut down on guild jumping, plus I think it's cool.
The way the two player types would interact would be this. Say you have an IG commander that is getting worked on a planet by orks, he decides that he needs help from a Marine chapter. He would have the option to create a "mission" where it would send out a distress call to all chapters in that vicinity in space. The level of RTS commander would limit which chapter could respond to his call, this would eliminate low level commanders calling in a massive bombardment of marines that would devastate the enemy. The high ranking marine chapters wouldn't even see the mission, and it could be assumed that, like marines often do, they feel that fighting that battle is not worth their time. So you have your mission created, it could be anything from, "defend this area for 20 min" to, "break through this defensive line and destroy their power generator". The mission is really only limited by the ability of the player to create it. When the marines accept the mission they would have to fly to the planet in the battle barge or whatever, and then drop in. They would then be fighting in the battle where all the other troops are controlled by the RTS players. The RTS guys can see the marines kicking ass, and the FPS players get the feeling of an epic battle, and that they are supermen. Of course you will have FPS vs FPS battles also, or FPS/RTS VS FPS, or any other combination you could think of. The world will have to be designed as such where it accommodates both RTS and FPS game play, but I think we will have the technology to do that by the time this game comes out. All experience will be earned by battles, which will be mostly all PVP based. RTS players will gain more access to better units and more req the more they win and the higher their commander gets. FPS players can gain better armor/weapons and such, plus the commanders and officers of a chapter can give battle commands to the other players and call down ammo drops and bombardments the higher lvl their chapter becomes.
Thats the basic overview of my idea. I got a lot more that i'm going to write down here, but i gotta do some homework (dam you finals!!! dam you!!). I would love to hear some feedback on this, because I'm thinking of really filling it out and showing it to Vigil games or THQ.
"Serve the Emperor, buy war bonds!"
I originally posted this on the 8-bit forums, then I thought that this forum might be a bit robust for this kinda thing...so yeah, if you wanna check out the original (it's only about a day old) it's at 8bit.
well, I just felt it would be fun to throw my idea out there on how I wish the game would be made. Once I heard that they were going to make this game I almost cheesed by skivvies, but then I quickly ran into the common problem that it seems everyone else runs into, "how to make the game true to the 40k universe but not suck". I was pondering this very question when an idea came to me in a flash, such a good idea (I think), that I got goosebumps. So without further ado...
1. Firstly, we have the problem of what kind of game it should be, there are a few different camps, one wants it to be a FPS, so it can capture that intense gritty feel of that universe, but then you are stuck with the problem of everyone being marines, and the battles wouldn't be nearly epic enough. Then you have the group that wants to capture the epic feel of 40k, with galactic crusades where the fates of planets and trillions rest in the balance. For this you would need an RTS game, but then you would lose that intense, blood pumping action that only an FPS can provide. Then you have the idea of basing the entire game in a hive, which, I think, would not nearly capture the true feeling of the universe and would end up just being another run-of-the-mill MMO.
My idea is this.
Firstly, in 40k you races that are more suited to RTS style game play, like 'Nids and IG. Then you have races that are better suited to FPS style, like Marines, Eldar (possibly), Chaos and so forth. So basically what you would have are players can choose to either create an RTS commander for the races that make up most of the armies in the universe. These would be the fellows that organize the crusades, or defense, of planets and carry them out in RTS style, building bases, cities, troops and so forth. They would build the masses of troops that fill the universe, they would probably also control Titans and such. Then you have the races that there really aren't a lot of, for this example I will use marines. Marines would be a FPS race, if you choose a marine you would immediately have to pick a guild to join. There would be a list of guilds, and you would have to pick one before you get in game. When you pick a guild, you would start out as a neophyte, this would be equal to a probationary period that a lot of guilds use. A player would learn how to play the FPS part of the game, and he would have to prove himself to the guild. If he proves himself he is allowed in, if not, he has to start over. This process would really cut down on people just joining and leaving guilds, since if he leaves he would have to go through the process again. Of course this would need tweaking, but the general idea is true to fluff and is practical. There would also be caps to the players allowed in a guild. The caps could be raised by the success of the guild in combat. So a starting chapter would only be allowed, say, 10 players. These players would have to work hard, and together, to make their guild capable of recruiting more players. This would give players something to work for, and also make them loyal to their guild, and cut down on guild jumping, plus I think it's cool.
The way the two player types would interact would be this. Say you have an IG commander that is getting worked on a planet by orks, he decides that he needs help from a Marine chapter. He would have the option to create a "mission" where it would send out a distress call to all chapters in that vicinity in space. The level of RTS commander would limit which chapter could respond to his call, this would eliminate low level commanders calling in a massive bombardment of marines that would devastate the enemy. The high ranking marine chapters wouldn't even see the mission, and it could be assumed that, like marines often do, they feel that fighting that battle is not worth their time. So you have your mission created, it could be anything from, "defend this area for 20 min" to, "break through this defensive line and destroy their power generator". The mission is really only limited by the ability of the player to create it. When the marines accept the mission they would have to fly to the planet in the battle barge or whatever, and then drop in. They would then be fighting in the battle where all the other troops are controlled by the RTS players. The RTS guys can see the marines kicking ass, and the FPS players get the feeling of an epic battle, and that they are supermen. Of course you will have FPS vs FPS battles also, or FPS/RTS VS FPS, or any other combination you could think of. The world will have to be designed as such where it accommodates both RTS and FPS game play, but I think we will have the technology to do that by the time this game comes out. All experience will be earned by battles, which will be mostly all PVP based. RTS players will gain more access to better units and more req the more they win and the higher their commander gets. FPS players can gain better armor/weapons and such, plus the commanders and officers of a chapter can give battle commands to the other players and call down ammo drops and bombardments the higher lvl their chapter becomes.
Thats the basic overview of my idea. I got a lot more that i'm going to write down here, but i gotta do some homework (dam you finals!!! dam you!!). I would love to hear some feedback on this, because I'm thinking of really filling it out and showing it to Vigil games or THQ.
"Serve the Emperor, buy war bonds!"
Uriah on
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Given the fluff in 40k, most troopers don't really upgrade to "better" weapons very often, you don't really see the "+5 bolter of the Emperors grace", you just have bolters, in fact, fluff wise, bolters are considered holy weapons, the roar of which is a prayer offered up to the emperor. 40k is about war, conquest, and eventual control of the galaxy, not level grinding and getting fancy, shiny new weapons. I figured that the leveling up element for the FPS players would have to focus on the skills of the players character, and be very limited. For marines they are genetically enhanced killing machines that are already made to be the best they can be. This being said, there are marines who, because they have lived so long and experienced so many battles, that they become better than a newer recruit. That is how the chapter masters are chosen! I think it would be reasonable to be able to level your character up by investing points into battle skills, like heavy weapons, close combat, etc. There could also be little things like purity seals and inscribed armor type things that could provide little bonuses. Then you have your relics, these would be one-of-a-kind items that would hold tremendous power. They would be so powerful that gaining control of them would be worth hundreds of players working in conjunction to gain, or prevent, a side from acquiring it(the claw of Horus for example). Once again, the main goal of this game I don't think would be character development, but the development of a guild and relationships, the conquest of the universe, and constant pvp action. You also can't have conquest without deaths, for the FPS players I feel that dying would have to carry a hefty price, being that they would be MUCH more powerful than the basic RTS troopers. I was thinking that if a FPS player got wounded enough to make his character unable to fight on, there would have to be a apothecary to heal him. There would have to be a time limit on how long the dying marine could hold out until he would actually die (marines are tough bastards), after a certain point the medic wouldn't be able to heal him, and would have to extract his gene-seed. This would be bad for the player, but then he would basically start a new marine with the gene-seed from his past marine, thus keeping a good portion of his abilities that he gained through leveling up. There might come a time when the gene-seed cannot be recovered, at this point you would default to the gene-seed that had been harvested to check for impurities that chapters must turn in to the Imperium to make sure they are free from mutation. This back-up would happen on a schedule every couple of months. I feel that there needs to be this harsh a punishment to stay true to the fluff, because not every marine is going to live forever, in fact, a lot of them die. This will enable the FPS side of the game to not have to have new "items" made all the time, since most players will probably be hover around a level that is appropriate to their skill, which will limit them to their weapons. This would also make the really old characters very respected and cool. It would also keep the FPS side of the game from getting flooded with people who want instant gratification, but make people care about how they plan their attacks, and that a guild works as a team and fight more like you would if you were actually fighting and dying. Not like the other FPS games where dying means nothing and you run around spamming the jump button (which I HATE!!)
Once again I think this game should focus and skill, tactics, battles that actually will affect the universe, bragging rights, and fluff. With other MMO's they focus on items, stats, money, and how you look. 40k has amazing looks, but thats not what it's all about, it's about the how in the grim darkness of the far future there is only WAR!!!
If you like these ideas please post your thoughts and your own ideas, what you don't like, what you do like. I think it would be really awesome if we could get a community involvement in this, polish up the idea, compose it, and then spam THQ and Vigil games with this idea. I honestly think if we get this idea polished up enough, and we get enough people emailing and contacting them, we might actually be able to influence how the game is made, and all I want is a 40k MMO that is worthy of the name.
I will have to check that out once I get home, since my college internets is really bad. I am not really saying there should be perma-death per-se', but when you die your character would revert to an older version of yourself, as saved by your, "gene-seed" (in the case of marines, we would have to figure out other ways for the other races). The problem this is supposed to minimize is seeing TONS of marine players that have leveled up to a point where they would be chapter master statues (the leaders of chapters) or chaplain status. It would also (I think) mitigate to some level the problem I see with a lot of FPS games where people just keep dying, respawning, and rushing. Teamwork would be essential for maximizing your survival chances.
Of course, now that I think of it, you might be right. Instead of a harsh-death penalty, there could be a reward system for the longer you stay alive, and the more you kill. Being that the 40k fluff for space marines is kind of limited for the whole leveling up kinda thing, it makes adding that element difficult. Typically the characters that become truly powerful warriors are the ones who stay alive, are ferocious in battle, and typically end up succeeding in some impossible task, where afterwards they end up with a unique weapon, or a high rank. Keeping this in mind, we could implement some reward system, as your character ages (doesn't die), and you defeat more and more enemies, you have a meter that fills up, and when it reaches a certain point, a truly heroic event might occur (what this would be, I don't know), and if you manage to survive it, and come out victorious, your name would be entered into the book of heroes, and you would be gifted with a unique item. Getting this bar to that point would have to be VERY difficult, and the task itself would also would be random and also VERY difficult. FPS players would then have something to work for, and IF they complete it, a very unique and powerful item. This would still encourage teamwork, not dying, and also limit the amount of over-powered marines.
Any thoughts on this?
/old
/bitter
On a more constructive level, would such hybrid gameplay work on a large scale? WoW, and LotR, and CoH (or whatever else) are popular because they involve playing a hero who never actually dies, and gets to play with constant advancement of gear, stats, and levels. Dawn of War is a refinement of the building and rock/paper/scissors foundations of RTS gameplay. Could a hybrid reach critical mass of players to go anywhere?
And more importantly, would Guard players be executed with permadeath for saying the word "Slaanesh" in general chat?
Its just a few more steps down this road, and then you end up like NMA.
There might be some issues that would have to be worked out of course, but yes. I think that a hybrid would have to be large scale, especially in the nature of 40k you need lots of fighting and death over large areas, hence the rts side to accomidate that. In terms of the RTS aspect, I feel that a game like this would be more focused over buildling an empire and powerful guilds that the individual character. There would be SOME individual development, but generally speaking, in FPS games, players are typically focued on the action than the gear. I feel that promoting overall guild power is a good way to encourage teamwork and loyalty. The more successful players = the more successful a guild = access to more weapons and special abilities that can then be distributed to the players withing the guild. If a guild starts to do badly, they might lose access to things.
If we ever want to see more games that are innovative and that are not just boring run of the mill stuff that we see today, risks have to be taken. I am not holding my breath on being able to actually influence what they are going to do with this game, but I have some free time for a while, so why the hell not!
What i'm definitely hoping they don't do is make it like LOTR, EQ, or WoW. In terms of gameplay there's enough cookie-cutter MMO's out there right now. Not only have those types of games worn old on me, but often there's no real endgame aside from pointless PVPing or seeking better gear. In fact, usually those two go hand in hand.
I tend to lean towards the perma-death, or a quasi-perma-death for marines or the other FPS players. Like you pointed out, not all marines are "armor wielding behemoths", and it would make the game WAY more intense, and fun, if your guy can actually be killed forever. In regards to game play, unfortunately, there are not very many ways to make a game have a "point", because of the very fact that it is a game and has no bearing on our lives. This being said I think that having a world where the majority of it can be influenced by the players, however they want, makes a game very interesting, because now you can take pride and brag about kicking other players asses off a planet or whatever. I also think it would be a really good idea to implement some kind of actual reward program. This would be something like the top players of a victorious army get sweet lewt, free game time, signed stuff, etc. That would be a game worth playing.
In terms of the players making a difference, I was thinking more along the lines of what TR is supposedly experimenting with, again. They have control points and capturable bases on the map that are periodically assaulted by both factions. Control of those bases give quest givers, medical services, shops, and also some other bonuses. In the GDC footage Lord British mentioned a really interesting example where control of a hydroelectric dam allowed the good guys (PCs.) main base to recieve extra power from almost halfway across the world.
In terms of WH40K there's a number of ways you could implement that. For example, maybe you're fighting on a Forge World, and your side has an Ordinatus (Nuclear Artillery, basically.) but lacks ammo for the main cannon. Controlling the actual factory deep within a heavily assaulted hive could provide ammunition to let the Ordinatus fire at will, giving a huge edge to the forces there. However, if Chaos, or whatever side was fighting against the Imperials captured it, it could confer similar bonuses, either producing hell-spawned weapons/monsters or producing ammunition for 40K's other "super weapons".
I guess the point i'm trying to make is is that they had better not make the game a static world. Static worlds can be fun, if the lore, graphics, and overall ambience are done right, but eventually they get boring. Killing rats on one side of a field for half an hour, then progressing to the other side to kill bandits is fucking old. Rather, i'd prefer to get involved in a bloody trench war where NPC's shift their positions around in order to get the edge on each other. It's much more entertaining (in my opinion, at least.) when you have to actually fight and hunt the other sides npcs/pc's in order to get experience. More to the point, static worlds as a whole are starting to become a tired concept. Hell, Saga of Ryzom, a game that by todays standards is by no means new, did it quite awhile ago and it worked perfectly. Going even further back, UO tried it, and they even supposedly implemented the system, but ended up having to scrap it due to players making the wildlife go extinct en-masse due to camping/powerleveling (For those who don't know originally UO was going to have an actual eco-system where creatures could roam around, breed, and possibly go extinct if overhunted. Unfortunately, it being the first main-stream MMO noone expected players to capitalize on the system, commiting animal genocide and pretty much extincting the gameworlds animal population.).
The Imperials would then be mind-wiped or shot in the head for being exposed to the corrupting effects of Chaos, while a billion nameless soldiers die in the name of a corpse-god to stall the invaders long enough to have Marines drop virus bombs from orbit.
...
What?
Meh. They'd probably be mind-wiped or shot after they had pushed the invaders back. Plus, if the game takes place near the Eye of Terror then it's pretty much a given that the Inquisition won't give a shit if you actually see a Chaos Marine or cultist, so long as you shoot them/don't join them. Cadia's a great example of that.
Edit: Christ. Re-reading that I can't help but find it a miracle that I ever managed to get laid.
My respect for Dan Abnett will increase tenfold if he finishes the Gaunt's Ghosts series by having the victorous Ghosts wiped from existence by a volley from Marine cruisers.
I've also found over the years that, inexplicably, women think that miniature painting is "cool" and/or "artsy", and are down with it as long as you don't say things like the above in front of them. Hell, my wife's into fantasy stuff and Star Wars and all that, but I don't think she's yet put together the fact that I took Latin in High School because of 40k.
Oh yeah, I know that. There's this slightly overweight guy who paints the figures down in the student lobby at the college I go to every Tuesday. I've got no idea why he does it there, but he does. Every now and then i'll see someone sit down and talk to him. I can only imagine the look on their faces when he launches into a tirade about the Emperor or Space Wolves or something.
Anyways, I was just momentarily surprised at myself that I actually knew that much about 40K's backstory offhand. Also, personally I was hoping that Gaunt would go down in His Last Command when
But getting back on topic, yeah, static worlds. Boo. I don't like them.
Yes, static worlds are bad, it makes a game VERY boring. I like that idea of control points "linking" if you will, and enabling other bonuses, ordinance, tanks, etc. It would make defending these points very important and necessary to the success of your faction.
I was also thinking of an idea that would give the world some color and flash. Basically, in areas controlled by your faction, NPC settlers could start building things, factories, power plants, towns, cities, whatever. These places would spawn their own defenses so that they couldn't just be ganked easily by high level guilds or whatever. You could have a living breathing world that makes just running around that much cooler. All these places could be captured, or destroyed. There would also be more "monumental" places that couldn't be totally destroyed, but be able to be ruined. Once one of these places is captured, the NPC's would go to rebuilding...yadda yadda. An important aspect that I think, and hope, they are able to get in the game is the 'feel' of 40k. Epic cities, planets, battles, where one person is an insignificant speck compared to the whole. I also feel this is another reason why focus should be put on building up a guild, and not individual players.
Oh yes, and I think in the right situation, and with a LOT of pre-requisite factors, having an entire planet virus bombed would be soooo sweet. heh, then it would become an escape mission...5 min until everyone DIES!!!
I think that this game'll be touch 'n' go; it'd always be awkward to make an MMO out of this license just because of the amount of shooting involved. If everyone was to be running around with a bolt pistol + chainsword it'd get very old very fast.