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First thoughts

DarkMessDarkMess Registered User regular
edited August 2007 in Debate and/or Discourse
I was thinking last night about thought etc., and no matter which theory of creation you believe in (Creationism, Thetans or Evolution) there is some logical point at which Mankind has his first sentient, intelligable thought.

My question is simple; what do people think that thought was?

Enjoy the DarkMess.
DarkMess on

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    emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    It was either about sex or aggression.

    [/SigmundFreud]

    emnmnme on
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    BuchwaldBuchwald Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    "this shit sucks."

    Buchwald on
    "That theory is just the looniest of a whole bunch of complete nonsense that is spouted by Amanda Winn Lee and her cohorts in the Audio Commentary."
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    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    The idea that there was a first sentient thought is rather silly. Our study of the great apes has shown that many of them possess similar thought processes as humans but on a slightly more rudimentary level. So the real question would be where do you draw the line of sentient and non sentient?

    nexuscrawler on
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    DarkMessDarkMess Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    nexuscrawler wrote: »
    The idea that there was a first sentient thought is rather silly. Our study of the great apes has shown that many of them possess similar thought processes as humans but on a slightly more rudimentary level. So the real question would be where do you draw the line of sentient and non sentient?

    It's not just sentient, but intelligable that I'm looking for; a thought that is clearly intelligent, could be explained to another sentient being and is not simply based on instincts or reactions to stimuli.

    DarkMess on
    Enjoy the DarkMess.
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    YodaTunaYodaTuna Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I would assume most psychologists would think the first actual "sentient" thought would have something to do with "self", such as "Where am I?" or "Who am I?"

    YodaTuna on
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Not actually a mod. Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    edited August 2007
    "Where all the white women at?"

    ElJeffe on
    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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    YodaTunaYodaTuna Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    "Where all the white women at?"

    Also a good guess.

    YodaTuna on
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    AibynAibyn Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    "They took our jorbs!"?

    Aibyn on
    "Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon..."

    -- (Terry Pratchett, alt.fan.pratchett)
    11737_c4020a74dc025a53.png
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    FeralFeral ＭＥＭＥＴＩＣＨＡＲＩＺＡＲＤ interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    This thread is silly. Intelligence can't be surmised in a single thought, it implies a pattern of thoughts and behavior. And as for "sentience" -

    montoya.jpg

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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    RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Probably something to do with eating. Something along the lines of "meat > rocks".

    Or maybe it was about sex. Something along the lines of "women > rocks".

    My point is, rocks suck.

    Richy on
    sig.gif
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    MKRMKR Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    A few thousands years of "Sleep, eat, procreate."

    MKR on
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    Henry_HydeHenry_Hyde Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    "I'm gonna kill myself......"

    If I was sleeping on rocks, that's probably what I'd think.

    Henry_Hyde on
    Angry and Destructive Gamers, ASSEMBLE!

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    "Oh geeze, thoughts? Thoughts!? I'm the smartest caveperson around! Oh god I'm the first nerd. I'm never gonna get any cavesex now."

    Incenjucar on
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    The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2007
    "Oh god, I'm naked D:"

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    The Cat wrote: »
    "Whoo hoo, I'm naked !"

    And then they threw their poop at someone.

    Incenjucar on
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    DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    "Where all the white women at?"

    That's orientationist. You're unfairly assuming the first people were heterosexual. Maybe they were wondering where all the white MEN were at.

    Drez on
    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
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    VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    "Where all the white women at?"

    ahahaha that's fantastic.

    Variable on
    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
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    DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2007
    I think there's a large scale that leads up to what you'd consider "sentient, intelligable thought."

    For example, I think dogs can do that. They are certainly self-aware enough to know their position in a family or pack.

    So I don't think that there ever was a "first thought," at least how you've defined it.

    Doc on
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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Everyone knows that Man's first thoughts were praises of his Divine Creator.

    Elendil on
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    DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Man's first thought was... "shit...ignorance was bliss D:"

    edit: Yeah, he made that face too.

    Drez on
    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Drez wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    "Where all the white women at?"

    That's orientationist. You're unfairly assuming the first people were heterosexual. Maybe they were wondering where all the white MEN were at.

    And you're a sexist pig, all assuming that the first thought was a man's.

    Incenjucar on
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    DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    "Where all the white women at?"

    That's orientationist. You're unfairly assuming the first people were heterosexual. Maybe they were wondering where all the white MEN were at.

    And you're a sexist pig, all assuming that the first thought was a man's.

    Male WASPs were the first sentient beings in the universe. Fact.

    Drez on
    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
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    CherrnCherrn Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    "I can think.

    I can talk.

    I can talk!

    I can talk!

    I can SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING".

    Cherrn on
    All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
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    FirstComradeStalinFirstComradeStalin Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Wouldn't the first sentient thought be "Woah, I exist"?

    Isn't that the definition of sentience, some sort of self-awareness?

    FirstComradeStalin on
    Picture1-4.png
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    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I doubt it is anything you can actually put into words. I mean, like would predate language.

    though, it was probably something along the lines of "why is it bright and cold all of a sudden?"

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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    DarkMessDarkMess Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Feral wrote: »
    This thread is silly. Intelligence can't be surmised in a single thought, it implies a pattern of thoughts and behavior. And as for "sentience" -

    montoya.jpg

    That's the problem with words, I suppose; they have different meanings based on who you ask. I was thinking of it more in the way of the second definition here, i.e. being conscious of what you are perceiving and not just reacting to it based upon instinct, but a quick scan of a lot of online dictionaries brings up several different definitions.

    I suppose, as people have hastened to point out, that when it comes to evolution the question is trickier but I'd still think that there would have to be a point at which some ape/homo erectus first became conciously aware of his surroundings, and not just aware in the same way that an insect etc. is. After all, the point of Evolution is generally that one creature mutates in a way which is beneficial and then passes this on to its children, right?

    I like a lot of the answers so far, and the, quite accurate, point that was made that it needn't have been a man that had the first thought!

    I don't believe in God, but if Creationism is true then the first thought might have been "What just happened?".

    DarkMess on
    Enjoy the DarkMess.
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    DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Use "sentence" in a sentience.


    Wait...

    Drez on
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    DarkMessDarkMess Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Drez wrote: »
    Use "sentence" in a sentience.


    Wait...

    Is it wrong that I laughed? :lol:

    DarkMess on
    Enjoy the DarkMess.
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    LindenLinden Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    DarkMess wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    This thread is silly. Intelligence can't be surmised in a single thought, it implies a pattern of thoughts and behavior. And as for "sentience" -

    [img.]http://feral.chaosnet.org/odd/montoya.jpg[/.img]

    That's the problem with words, I suppose; they have different meanings based on who you ask. I was thinking of it more in the way of the second definition here, i.e. being conscious of what you are perceiving and not just reacting to it based upon instinct, but a quick scan of a lot of online dictionaries brings up several different definitions.

    I suppose, as people have hastened to point out, that when it comes to evolution the question is trickier but I'd still think that there would have to be a point at which some ape/homo erectus first became conciously aware of his surroundings, and not just aware in the same way that an insect etc. is. After all, the point of Evolution is generally that one creature mutates in a way which is beneficial and then passes this on to its children, right?

    I like a lot of the answers so far, and the, quite accurate, point that was made that it needn't have been a man that had the first thought!

    I don't believe in God, but if Creationism is true then the first thought might have been "What just happened?".

    One significant issue is that intelligence, self-awareness, and the like, is not binary. Rather, it seems to be more appropriately considered a continuous value, ranging from "completely unintelligent, and quite probably dead" to "perfectly intelligent". It's also not really measurable in any real sense – what I may consider unintelligent may, to some, be clearly intelligent. Pets are a good example of this, actually.

    That's not a bad description of the process of evolution, but I'm at a bit of a loss as to what your point is when you bring it up. Again, though, I don't think it's a given that we can divide cognition into "insect" and "human".

    Also, I am reminded of the first (and final) thoughts of the whale in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

    Linden on
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    DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Linden wrote: »
    DarkMess wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    This thread is silly. Intelligence can't be surmised in a single thought, it implies a pattern of thoughts and behavior. And as for "sentience" -

    [img.]http://feral.chaosnet.org/odd/montoya.jpg[/.img]

    That's the problem with words, I suppose; they have different meanings based on who you ask. I was thinking of it more in the way of the second definition here, i.e. being conscious of what you are perceiving and not just reacting to it based upon instinct, but a quick scan of a lot of online dictionaries brings up several different definitions.

    I suppose, as people have hastened to point out, that when it comes to evolution the question is trickier but I'd still think that there would have to be a point at which some ape/homo erectus first became conciously aware of his surroundings, and not just aware in the same way that an insect etc. is. After all, the point of Evolution is generally that one creature mutates in a way which is beneficial and then passes this on to its children, right?

    I like a lot of the answers so far, and the, quite accurate, point that was made that it needn't have been a man that had the first thought!

    I don't believe in God, but if Creationism is true then the first thought might have been "What just happened?".

    One significant issue is that intelligence, self-awareness, and the like, is not binary. Rather, it seems to be more appropriately considered a continuous value, ranging from "completely unintelligent, and quite probably dead" to "perfectly intelligent". It's also not really measurable in any real sense – what I may consider unintelligent may, to some, be clearly intelligent. Pets are a good example of this, actually.

    That's not a bad description of the process of evolution, but I'm at a bit of a loss as to what your point is when you bring it up. Again, though, I don't think it's a given that we can divide cognition into "insect" and "human".

    Also, I am reminded of the first (and final) thoughts of the whale in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

    I'm rather reminded of the bowl of petunias's thoughts.

    Drez on
    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
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    ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    What was your first thought?

    Æthelred on
    pokes: 1505 8032 8399
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    AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Æthelred wrote: »
    What was your first thought?
    "my thumbs are awesome!"

    Aldo on
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    DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Æthelred wrote: »
    What was your first thought?

    "Meh."

    Drez on
    Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
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    DarkMessDarkMess Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Drez wrote: »
    Linden wrote: »
    DarkMess wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    This thread is silly. Intelligence can't be surmised in a single thought, it implies a pattern of thoughts and behavior. And as for "sentience" -

    [img.]http://feral.chaosnet.org/odd/montoya.jpg[/.img]

    That's the problem with words, I suppose; they have different meanings based on who you ask. I was thinking of it more in the way of the second definition here, i.e. being conscious of what you are perceiving and not just reacting to it based upon instinct, but a quick scan of a lot of online dictionaries brings up several different definitions.

    I suppose, as people have hastened to point out, that when it comes to evolution the question is trickier but I'd still think that there would have to be a point at which some ape/homo erectus first became conciously aware of his surroundings, and not just aware in the same way that an insect etc. is. After all, the point of Evolution is generally that one creature mutates in a way which is beneficial and then passes this on to its children, right?

    I like a lot of the answers so far, and the, quite accurate, point that was made that it needn't have been a man that had the first thought!

    I don't believe in God, but if Creationism is true then the first thought might have been "What just happened?".

    One significant issue is that intelligence, self-awareness, and the like, is not binary. Rather, it seems to be more appropriately considered a continuous value, ranging from "completely unintelligent, and quite probably dead" to "perfectly intelligent". It's also not really measurable in any real sense – what I may consider unintelligent may, to some, be clearly intelligent. Pets are a good example of this, actually.

    That's not a bad description of the process of evolution, but I'm at a bit of a loss as to what your point is when you bring it up. Again, though, I don't think it's a given that we can divide cognition into "insect" and "human".

    Also, I am reminded of the first (and final) thoughts of the whale in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

    I'm rather reminded of the bowl of petunias's thoughts.

    I wonder if it'll be friends with me?

    DarkMess on
    Enjoy the DarkMess.
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    kdrudykdrudy Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    "Oh no, not again"

    kdrudy on
    tvsfrank.jpg
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    sdrawkcaB emaNsdrawkcaB emaN regular
    edited August 2007
    Feral wrote: »
    And as for "sentience" -

    montoya.jpg

    Oh man, yes.

    Sapience, people, sapience.

    sdrawkcaB emaN on
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